Mini 1055 - Return to PEGBAM (Closing Time!)

[UltimaAvalon]

I'm taking MBF's side here. #243 is some of the worst attacks I've seen in a mafia game.

Why have neither of you commented on UA's self vote?

Do you think it's worth commenting on?

I do. Besides his little scuffle with flavor flave at the beginning of day 1 (which went nowhere), UA has shown little to no interest at all in finding scum. He would rather vote himself rather than actively look for scum. He did it during the end of the day yesterday, and is doing it now.

Do you really believe this, Scot?

[scotmany12]

Why have neither of you commented on UA's self vote?

Do you think it's worth commenting on?

I do. Besides his little scuffle with flavor flave at the beginning of day 1 (which went nowhere), UA has shown little to no interest at all in finding scum. He would rather vote himself rather than actively look for scum. He did it during the end of the day yesterday, and is doing it now.

Do you really believe this, Scot?

Yes, I do. I don't think you are even concerned with finding scum.

[scotmany12]

EBWOP: Forgot to paste this

I disagree. I think my defensive was fine, and the only things that would signify me being scum are my "rolefishing" if you want to call it that, and my lurker-ness,

which has always been a null tell.

Self-metas suck

[UltimaAvalon]

The events of Day 1, As they pertain to UA:
Found FF scummy. Pursued. King Dodge didn't care. Backed off
Got into a minor argument with UK. (Turned out to be more worthless that FF's, but whatever floats your boat Scot.)Felt she was wrong but Town. She wouldn't back down. Self-voted to end argument
Analysis: Subject began day with minor leads, but quickly gave up when he realized he'd be unable to convince the one person who mattered. Cruised for the rest of the day.

The events of Day 1, As they pertain to Scot
Began the day lurking, posting only when prodded or trying to avoid said prods.
First posts with substance were minor attacks on the same players everyone else was attacking (except the one player that mattered). Day ended almost immediately after.
Analysis: Has no ground to stand on when accusing others of "Not Scumhunting During

Day 1

King Day"

[mikeburnfire]

EBWOP: Forgot to paste this

I disagree. I think my defensive was fine, and the only things that would signify me being scum are my "rolefishing" if you want to call it that, and my lurker-ness,

which has always been a null tell.

Self-metas suck

It's not a self-meta. When a player lurks, it's a null tell unless a player has a history of being more or less active when he's a certain alignment. In fact, I could argue that my indifference is a town tell.

[UltimaAvalon]

EBWOP: Forgot to paste this

I disagree. I think my defensive was fine, and the only things that would signify me being scum are my "rolefishing" if you want to call it that, and my lurker-ness,

which has always been a null tell.

Self-metas suck

It's not a self-meta. When a player lurks, it's a null tell unless a player has a history of being more or less active when he's a certain alignment. In fact, I could argue that my indifference is a town tell.

What he's saying, though, is when you wield a meta as a shield like that, it no longer functions as a meta-tell.

[mikeburnfire]

Regardless, trying to say that my lurking is a scum-tell is a deeply flawed argument.

[scotmany12]

Regardless, trying to say that my lurking is a scum-tell is a deeply flawed argument.

I never said it was. I read your post as you saying that lurking has always been a null tell for you, rather than you simply saying lurking is a null tell in general. I dislike when players use their own meta's as it involves wifom. However, if you were just saying that lurking is a nulltell, then this is irrelevent.

[Shanba]

Prozac managed an unacceptable level of fluff before beginning to play yesterday, but his contribution improved.

Vote: Flava Flave

. I want an awful lot more from panzer today.

[mikeburnfire]

Regardless, trying to say that my lurking is a scum-tell is a deeply flawed argument.

I never said it was. I read your post as you saying that lurking has always been a null tell for you, rather than you simply saying lurking is a null tell in general. I dislike when players use their own meta's as it involves wifom. However, if you were just saying that lurking is a nulltell, then this is irrelevent.

Yes, I was saying that lurking is a general null-tell. Sorry for the confusion, this was all irrelevant (just like most of your attack against me. Bam!!)

[GhostWriter]

I want an awful lot more from panzer today.

Fail. Panzer is not here.

[Shanba]

I want an awful lot more from panzer today.

Fail. Panzer is not here.

Oh, right.

Wait, what were the results of thingy's vote on him? If it's counted, he's most likely not dead yet and will be returning. In that case I guess defer my comment to whenever he gets back. If he's dead, then it's not a big loss.

[JDodge]

I want an awful lot more from panzer today.

Fail. Panzer is not here.

Oh, right.

Wait, what were the results of thingy's vote on him? If it's counted, he's most likely not dead yet and will be returning. In that case I guess defer my comment to whenever he gets back. If he's dead, then it's not a big loss.

Start paying attention, Shanba.

[Shanba]

Hey I picked the right one from your list yesterday even while not paying attention, so why bother?

Nah, I'll try and get into the game properly. I swear.

[Porochaz]

Im going to state my reasons without looking at F.F.'s post. He enters the game and makes 2 rolefishing posts. Jdodge was a known role and what MBF was asking wasn't his info to glean. Then iso 3, brought in his hatred of vezok. Which initially could have been a joke but it-just-kept-going. Carries on iso 4, 5, 6... 6 "vezok is scum". Why? Because the only reason I can see is that he just doesn't like the way vezok plays. Then we get onto the fact he is not paying attention, which reinforces the fact he is voting vezok for no reason. When he finds out that vezok has been replaced he still goes after UK, like a dog with a bone, but no reasons still.

Day 2 we have the pandering to jdodge. The fact he had to put in that he didn't kill UK, which I feel is slightly weird. Why would you have to clarify it when noone suggested it? Then gives reasons for why scum would kill her. This post alone makes me feel weird about MBF and would warrant a vote. (iso 9)

More pandering to Jay in iso 10, there is also this "I didn't play well" attitude, that is a recurring themes in his posts. He talks about the hypocrisy of some of his reasons and in this post he says that scot "is even worse than me". Give it a rest.

Moving onto F.F.'s case as it is iso 12, and hard to ignore. The "joking around" during the rvs stage wasn't really joking was it, you fished more than once and the first time JDodge mentioned it directly.

I didnt mention the fakeclaim as it didn't initially particularly seem off to me, however F.F. isn't attacking you for bad play here. Setting yourself up to lurk day 1, isn't good and setting up a claim, is an interesting one as soon as you get a little pressure.

The next quote where you suggest that you didn't vote UK out of nowhere is true, you didn't. But you kinda did vote vezok out of nowhere. You gave no reasons for it. You didnt even try to invent something but you kept at it and I still have no idea why.

The next few points regarding fence sitting and questioning I have no preoblem with however the asking jdodge why he is voting scot, when you didnt bother explaining why VZ/UK was in your lynch sites interests me.

Your defence of the case was minimal at best and I think in the last few paragraphs Ive answered your question of me. I agree lurking usually = null tell but don't get to ahead of yourself it's not a town tell. This is where the self meta comes in, and as scot said, self meta's suck.

So yeah, fishing, blatant lack of caring, going after an easy target even when they get replaced, pandering to jdodge, iso 10, poor defence.

Thats why Im voting.

[springlullaby]

GW, did your role state that JD could pass on his kingship after his day of reign?

[springlullaby]

BTW, I'm leaning toward Flava Flave side, his case is not as bad as MBF makes it out to be.
The thing I don't like is FF's playing curve: lies low when a wagon starts on him, makes just average play afterwards, then come back in day 2 with a full case on MBF whom he hasn't mentioned once on day 1.

Scot, why aren't you voting then?

[JDodge]

GW, did your role state that JD could pass on his kingship after his day of reign?

To be fair, I was dateraped.

[Flava Flave]

I'll give you the 'fishing' part, but are you really attacking me for saying "cool"?

I am. It shows happiness at who was selected as king and slight buddying. Thanks for conceding the fishing point too.

Heaven forbit I joke around during the RV phase.

When you are joking about actual accusations made towards you, yeah. That's scummy. And are you saying you were joking about the vezok execution? Because that went on for quite a while. If you were seriously proposing it, you can't call it RVS. If you want to call it RVS, explain why it went on so long.

I will admit that my play was bad, but that doesn't mean that I'm scum.

Bad play wasn't my point. What I actually said was "Then he admits to being scummy, calls Day 1 "boring" which gives him an excuse to do nothing, and sets himself up for a bad fakeclaim later. "

UK is Vezok, whose lynch I've been calling for all day. It isn't out of nowhere.

Ok, fair. But you seemed to be pushing either policy or a joke. Neither should lead to a serious vote on UK.

You're attacking me for saying the words "cool" and "thank you". Think about that for a minute.

Yes. It's all buddying.

Which part of that do you have a problem with? Do you think he can't be scum, or that I should directly call him scum without a reason?

You should either call him scum and say why or call him town. Don't do the whole "I think he's town, but maybe he's scum. I dunno, that's my read I guess hurhurhur" thing.

What is your problem with me talking about current events?

There is no purpose. It's fluff.

Do I really have to answer this question?

Yes.

As I said earlier, most things stem from Vezok, and he's a blight on games because everybody wants him dead.. And I'm talking to JDodge because I wanted to know why he voted Scot. Dur.

Ok, let's all let JDodge scumhunt for us.

Unvote MBF

. JDodge, who should I vote?

The events of Day 1, As they pertain to UA:
Found FF scummy. Pursued. King Dodge didn't care. Backed off
Got into a minor argument with UK. (Turned out to be more worthless that FF's, but whatever floats your boat Scot.)Felt she was wrong but Town. She wouldn't back down. Self-voted to end argument
Analysis: Subject began day with minor leads, but quickly gave up when he realized he'd be unable to convince the one person who mattered. Cruised for the rest of the day.

Do you plan to do anything today? Why the self-vote?

Regardless, trying to say that my lurking is a scum-tell is a deeply flawed argument.

No one is attacking you for lurking. You brought that up yourself.

Vote: Flava Flave

.

Reason please.

BTW, I'm leaning toward Flava Flave side, his case is not as bad as MBF makes it out to be.

He seems to want it to look bad so nobody follows it.

The thing I don't like is FF's playing curve: lies low when a wagon starts on him, makes just average play afterwards, then come back in day 2 with a full case on MBF whom he hasn't mentioned once on day 1.

Yeah, the kind thing made it hard to get into the game. Then JDodge gave a list, so I felt more like I could participate by commenting on his options. Day 2 turned back into normal mafia, so I can play my normal game.

[scotmany12]

I'll respond to you later tonight spring. I was going to after class today but now have to cover for someone at work

[GhostWriter]

I don't repick each night, however it does only last one day. Either JD picks someone else, or it simply stops after one day, which would be weird.

I answered about the King thing. I was only told that my choice would last one day. And only one day. I wasn't told if they could pass it on or if it simply stopped. Guess it stopped. Which is, as I said before, weird. But we were told that the setup would be complicated. Going to go do some rereading and isos, but not really expecting to find much in the rubble of yesterday.

[mikeburnfire]

Flave, you ask a few good questions, but they're sandwiched in-between terrible attacks. To explain, I stayed on Vezok/UK as long as I did because I could, and I chose to. I had no reason to, other than I wanted to. I thought that perhaps, if Vezok was scum, then the mafia would get worried that I had information about them.

[UltimaAvalon]

I thought that perhaps, if Vezok was scum, then the mafia would get worried that I had information about them.

On Day 1 with no Night 0?

[JDodge]

Unvote, vote: UltimaAvalon

[UltimaAvalon]

That's nice