Mini 1057: Unsubsidized Mafia (Game Over!)

[Nexus]

I'm struggling to articulate myself. If I suddenly have a burst of inspiration, then I will. I can only apologise for not knowing how best to describe it.

I said it was anti-town, that doesn't mean I consider you the scummiest. Don't worry, I wouldn't base a vote on solely that.

Once again, apologies.

[ThAdmiral]

Sorry for the late confirmation but I am here. Let me just read through the game and I will post my thoughts.

[singersigner]

I'm struggling to articulate myself. If I suddenly have a burst of inspiration, then I will. I can only apologise for not knowing how best to describe it.

I said it was anti-town, that doesn't mean I consider you the scummiest. Don't worry, I wouldn't base a vote on solely that.

Once again, apologies.

Stop apologizing. You're reminding me of Newbie 980...which I guess is good, because I can almost safely say I don't believe you are scum. Congrats.

Ugh, Thor's response...hold on...

And if it's all the same, Thor, if it's the general consensus that your play isn't helping town (and/or only distracting/frustrating town), I might just rethink what your alignment truly is...

[Sotty7]

Hello.

I'm here and reading. Should be up to date soonish.

[DemonHybrid]

And if it's all the same, Thor, if it's the general consensus that your play isn't helping town (and/or only distracting/frustrating town), I might just rethink what your alignment truly is...

Why are you basing your opinions on the general flow of the game instead of how you feel?

[Thor665]

And if it's all the same, Thor, if it's the general consensus that your play isn't helping town (and/or only distracting/frustrating town), I might just rethink what your alignment truly is...

...and do what?
Decide I'm scum and vote me twice?
Decide I'm town and...unvote me...for being anti-town?
Wooosh!

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: singersigner

Thor put it quite nicely. I still find Thor scummy, but you just pulled ahead in the lead.

[singersigner]

*sigh* I was speaking for Thor. If he continues to decide to play anti-town like this. HE should rethink why he's so pro-town.

[nhammen]

Devon's spot is still scummy because of lack of reasoning and increased neutrality. I'm waiting to see what her replacement does.

Ok, let me get this straight. You've been defending her to no end, regardless of people telling you it doesn't look good, and now she's on your scum list? Like...is this to distance yourself, or what?

Bad argument singer. Looks like you are just trying to pin something on him rather than making a decent case.

I really don't agree with your defense. You can't possibly think it's a good idea to speak for someone else in this game. Or have you forgotten who your true allies are in this game?

What does this comment mean? Who are your true allies singer?

singersinger - questions, she doesn't notice them because she doesn't read, or she thinks she can dodge them. See quoted text below for questions I'd still like answered.

Agree. I'm pretty sure I asked some questions as well.

Unvote: singersinger
Vote: DemonHybrid

Something's going on here.

Define something...

Unvote, Vote: singersigner

Thor put it quite nicely. I still find Thor scummy, but you just pulled ahead in the lead.

So you decide to change your vote in response to that?? I'm not getting this.

[Sotty7]

I don't like quickhammers. I'll claim now that I'm at L-2 so that no one thinks they're smart and quickhammering is the way to go.

Claim: Vanilla Townie

I think Nexus and redtail are the scum here. Keep an eye on Devon and Thor, especially after his devil may care attitude about a lynch. I understand Far Cry and his desire to start a wagon here, however. More info is good.

I'm inclined to say that I believe this claim. However, I will hold off a little before unvoting (waiting for more some more talk. And besides, It would look ridiculous to vote you than unvote a few posts later.)

Come on man. This is scummy and I haven't even finished my read yet.

Vote: Far_Cry

I'm also leaning scum on singersinger so far. I'm on page 7

[Chevre]

Vote Count 6

(2) DemonHybrid (singersigner, Thor665)
(2) singersigner (nhammen, DemonHybrid)
(2) Far_Cry (jimfinn, Sotty7)
(1) redtail896 (Adrigan)

(4) Not Voting (ThAdmiral, redtail896, Far_Cry, Nexus)

With

11

players alive, it takes

6

votes to lynch!
The deadline is

October 8th

.
Prodding Andrigan, jimfinn, and redtail896.

[Thor665]

Unvote: singersinger
Vote: DemonHybrid

Something's going on here.

Define something...

Okay...
But...
Ellipses always worry me...

Basically the breakdown is like this;

singersinger: Thor is anti-town - blaargh! I will not give reasons why - vote Thor!
DemonHybrid: OMG! U R so rite! Blaargh! I will add on this 'sarcasm tell' and vote Thor!
Nexus: True brilliance abounds in this thread, Thor is so anti-town it causes my gums to bleed!
Thor: WTF I am an innocent, gentle, and pure soul, how dare you defame me, what did I do that was anti-town?
Nexus: I totally agree with DH about your anti-towness in using sarcasm!
Thor: Buh? The question was silly, how would you have answered it?
Nexus: ...uh...I wouldn't have answered it at all, I still suspect you because the answer was scummy!
Thor: If the answer was scummy and the only "town answer" was not to answer then what does that say about the question?
Nexus: I refuse to discuss this angle of conversation anymore, I still suspect you but will apologize for things that I will not state what I'm apologizing for.
Thor: Vote DH.

singersinger's case was insane (but I'm almost believing she *is* insane when you consider all her other points.
DH sheeped that case.
Nexus sheeped the sheep.
No one has actually managed to explain what I did and how it was anti-town and all three of them list as their other top suspects/angles of attack the people *I've* called out for being scummy.
I find the sheeping of insanity to be more suspicious then the insanity at the moment, and the sheeping of the sheep gives me yet another player who DH's flip will provide some clarity to.

[Sotty7]

Far_Cry is scummy for his weak, meak stance in the game at the being combined with the “I'm inclined to say that I believe this claim but I won't unvote.” shenanigans.

Why believe the claim? There is no reason to ever believe a VT claim at this point of the game. None.
And if you did believe the claim you should unvote! That whole deal was just... wow.

Singersinger is looking pretty bad too. Her avoidance of several questions and yet still able to post up in thread is telling and frankly scummy. I could be convinced to swing my vote on to her.

Thor I was with you until you claimed scum. Joke or not that is scummy. I work on the belief that scum will tell you their alignment in a joke like this if they can get away with it. I was going to say defo town on you, but now you are back at netrual. I was with you when you were trying to push the game along, trying to get wagons going but that scum thing sticks on me.

I have town reads on nhammen and jimfinn. The later for basically posting in thread what I would have said RE:Far_Cry's reaction to DH's claim. The former for his tone and how he has been posting basically. He feels like he is really looking for scum.

Right now Far_Cry and Singersinger are my top scum reads. If I was to pick the 3rd scum it would be Andrigan. His language has been super tentive and almost waffly. I also didn't like the super defensivenss he posted to the early Far_Cry pressure. It didn't add up to me. Very out of place.

Everyone else post more please.

[jimfinn]

After Far_Cry, my second scum read right now is DH, but that's not a particularly solid read - claiming VT at L-2 is a move I dislike and in my opinion (due to Hohum's Theory, which I believe) is antitown at best, and could even be a scum trying to relieve some pressure and not risk an eager hammer. At the same time, the intention of the claim seems genuine, just misguided, so I'm going to leave my vote on FC

[Thor665]

@Sotty - I see some logic as to where you're coming with the joke scum claim issue - my major defense is that you look at the question I was answering and gauge my reaction thusly. It was a ridiculous comment, it deserved a ridiculous answer.

No read on DH? nhammen has claimed townish there, and I've claimed scummy for issues surrounding the logic you're casting me back down to neutral from town for - I would think you'd have thoughts.

[redtail896]

VOTE: singersigner

Reasons why:
1. Regarding the early Far Cry wagon:

I loled at this. Being a hypocrite gives someone every reason to vote for you unless you can give them a legitimate reason for why it's ok for YOU to do something, and not THEM. Which you have yet to do.

Thor, stop being dumb. I see no reason why there needs to be a wagon before everyone's contributed, unless there's been an absolute, 100% scumslip, which Far_Cry has not done IMO.

You clearly thought that Far Cry

was

being a hypocrite, yet you criticized Thor for creating and trying to promulgate a wagon on him. I don't know what kind of "absolute, 100% scumslip" you're looking for on D1.

Later you also produce this gem:

The whole hypocrisy thing... If you're looking for a scum tell in that, you won't find one.

This is a direct contradiction to your previous point of view.

2. The scumlist thing:

No. You're just asking him to set up people for NKs and lynch targets during the day. Anyone who posts lists of "least townie to most townie," or anything likewise, will instantly be on my bad side, for doing the work of scum for them.

This borders on theory discussion, but I find it interesting that you are so quick to judge people that simply disagree with you on this tenet of mafia theory. Especially since, by my count, you are in the minority.

3. You're "case" on Thor. I've said it before and I'll say it again: this case is illegitimate hogwash. I will reprint, in full, the post in which you voted for Thor:

Haha, did you just admit something?

Absolutely - I just admitted to being scum - go ahead and vote me and lets get a wagon started, your evidence is pure and irrefutable.

Point made.

Now.

VOTE: Thor665

What makes you so town? As far as I can tell, all you've been doing is confuse and bugger the shit out of town.

I see no reasoning or proof that Thor is/was "confusing and buggering the shit out of the town." (Here it should be noted that I don't like DH's jump onto this wagon any more than your starting of it)

Whoops!
Here ya go:

What makes you so town?

What makes me so scum?

I see you've dodged this question, and made a point of calling me out assuming I did the same. The difference is, I accidentally overlooked response in responding to other posts. You deliberately didn't answer the question.

As far as I can tell, all you've been doing is confuse and Smurf the Smurf out of town.

How have I done this? Please try to be explicit.

Look at your own ISO. Your posting style is aggressive, and instead of looking for blatantly scummy behavior, you're putting everyone on the defensive for things that may or may not be of any concern...and it's only the first day.

If I had to choose, my best bets would be Thor and Far_Cry...maybe DH, but I dunno.

In your response about Thor dodging the question,

you actually dodge the question

. In addition, your description of scummy behavior is simply a playstyle difference; you don't like Thor's playstyle, and are using it as an excuse for a vote. This case will later be abandoned without any real reasoning given other than "Thor's playstyle is scummy."

4. Your case on DH: amounts to accusing DH of making excuses and defending another player. The problem here (as pointed out by others as well) is that DH's excuses kind of make sense; those would be what I would say in the given situation. It's not really a defense of a scummy player either; it's simply DH explaining why the replacement happened. You don't really explain

why

it's scummy, just like with the Thor case.

[Sotty7]

@Sotty - I see some logic as to where you're coming with the joke scum claim issue - my major defense is that you look at the question I was answering and gauge my reaction thusly. It was a ridiculous comment, it deserved a ridiculous answer.

Yeah I understand the sarcasm, I really do, that's why I'm not saying you are scummy. In context it fits perfectly it just makes me

twitch

and I would hate myself for not at least noting it.

No read on DH? nhammen has claimed townish there, and I've claimed scummy for issues surrounding the logic you're casting me back down to neutral from town for - I would think you'd have thoughts.

Huh, I forgot to include DH. Well I am leaning slightly town on him simply for the early townie claim. It frustrated me no no end, but I can't say it didn't give any leads (see Far_Cry). It just seemed genuine for want of a better word. He strikes me as a eager townie trying to get his footing.

[Sotty7]

Actually, on reading Red's case above:

Unvote, Vote: singersinger

Far_Cry or singer, my vote will be on one of the two for the rest of the day.

I'm really liking the singer case right now hence the switch. She should start by answering nhammen's question in post 221 and making detailed cases for her scum reads that don't involve sarcastic "lol"s or weak reason with no evidence to back it up.

[DemonHybrid]

On the meta flipside, I notice she tends to post very dramatically as well, but in other games, she lays off of the dramatics.

Like........ugh, posting like this.........................I mean, really? Jeez...............

Whereas she's no nonsense and to the point otherwise.

[ThAdmiral]

I have only read up to page 6 so far but here are a few thoughts:

Go read Devon again. He openly admits that his vote is for "revenge" reasons when he votes DH. This is while an active bandwagoning is going on. Newbie scum would probably have commented on the bandwagon - either hopping on it, trying to derail it for town points, or trying to start up an actual counter to protect a buddy. Instead Devon is focused on making a joke with his friend, and making a joke using language that has negative connotations. Methinks the newb would not have acted this way if having the dastardly role of scum. Therefore; likely to be town. I find this reasoning stronger then the lack of an avatar.

Clever read imo. I would tend to agree.


Town points to Thor and Redtail for getting us out of RVS.

Pressure on FarCry is sound. Very wishy washy in a number of posts.

Pressure is wonderful. I'm here to scumhunt, you know, not tunnel one person. I'm still very well aware of Nexus' scumminess, but that doesn't mean I'm capable of examining others for information and using whatever tools at my disposal to do so.

There is a huge difference between tunneling and simply pushing a case against someone who you believe is scum. Resorting to this type of hyperbole is evasive.


Will post more later
(I really thought I'd have more time when I replaced in to this game..sorry guys)

[singersigner]

I'm currently working on homework right now and am too distracted to fish through and find the questions. But I said I would answer them, and I will (what was that thing about hypocrisy earlier?). So I'm asking nicely if those who have questions will kindly ask them again so I can address them properly when I'm done with my homework for the night.

DH...you should probably explain what your meta reads on me are before you bring them up.

Cheers.

[DemonHybrid]

I think that using ellipses and things like "Ugh" are signs of acting. When you are clear and to the point, I think of you as town. Dunno how I can explain that any more clearly.

[singersigner]

You should check out my only game I've ever played as scum, and let me know how that holds up here.

[DemonHybrid]

You should check out my only game I've ever played as scum, and let me know how that holds up here.

Cool. It's still different than how you've ever posted (from what I've read) and it's just an aside. It's not completely incriminating but it borders on a mixture of fluff and AtE (a little bit of each).

[singersigner]

UNVOTE:
I don't think I ever did that when I meant to.