Mini 1062 - The Lies of Locke Lamora (game over!)

[Coach Travis]

Oh, and the reason for the first sentence in the last paragraph:My biggest problem with Parama before just now was I thought his vote was extremely weak, and possibly just defending Skyquiem, because ther's really no reason to vote someone for pressuring like jenniwren was doing.

[Parama]

Is pressuring another player ever a bad thing? I'm trying to force content out of a rather slow game.
Also, I never chainsaw defend scumbuddies when I'm scum. I bus them :3

[Coach Travis]

No, I don't think pressuring is ever a bad thing, especially not early on, because it's the only good way to get things going. That's why I had been suspicious of you, because it seemed like you were criticizing a player for pressuring another player, which I didn't like, and because the vote was so easy to defend against, it didn't have any pressure to it. so it seemed pointless. Your last post is what made me reconsider, though it doesn't mean I'm giving you a free pass. And yeah, I totally wouldn't know your usual scum tactics, never read any of your games so that last sentence in your post is irrelevant.

[Benmage]

Imagine your a town PR and nobody knows what place correspondes to which person:

Unless this was some sort of softclaim or something...I can't fathom this being required for a doc or cop to function.

DDD is too active in this game to be scum. I am 100% serious about this.

AHAHA QFT i can second this.

BM, you are usually more active than this

(though not any more helpful <_<).

Your only comment thus far was on the location theory comment that was brought up. Who do you think is scum, and why?

Hardy Har har

I am behind in two game which I was in before this...and I rank my games priority by when I joined (unless certain things like a nearing deadline or lylo) So basically I need to catch up elsewhere before putting more effort here. Although I am staying concurrent here...there hasn't been much to comment on.

[Furcolow]

Hmm. Was that directed at me, or even implying an indication on anwsering me? Nope. Check.

Hmm. Was that even a decent answer to begin with?? Could have fooled me if it was. Check.

I do believe mine eyes have been opened D:

I think you need to check what OMGUS means furcolow. Even someone like me, knows your way off in left field with that understanding.

Pre-edit

@jenn

First of all, thanks for the decent questions

I think at this point in time Macavity is scummiest with his somewhat horrible reach, and his answer for said horrible reach. I'm also wondering about furcolow too, as he seems o be jumpy somewhat, and

flailing a little at that, especially since no one has put any pressure on him.

I think that palmer's idea to play to someone else's meta is somewhat strange, especially if he doesn't have a decent grasp at it. I don't see why anyone would want to change their playstyle just for a phase or two, then reverting back to his regular. I know that some people want to play games different ways, but they usually never tell anyone that they are doing so, as it should be easily apparent during the game that they are. So, I don't see why he publicly admits to using a different meta in his game. While odd certainly, I'm not really sure if that's scummy. To each their own.

I think Furcolow is buddying without having to actually commit to scumhunting. No one seems to care about it though from what I can see. -shrug-

Secondly, You seem to be jumping pretty quickly at the 'active lurking' accusation there. I'm not actively lurking >.>

I have school and work. It's why I'm only playing one game at a time.

In response to the bold section: How can one be flailing when there is no pressure on them? That is an open contradiction in your statement from my perspective. I feel like you are trying to attack your attackers, which is how I interpreted OMGUS. You have done that with Macavity who is the "scummiest" for his "horrible reach", and you're on my balls for me voting you for a very-scummy post. The scummiest post yet in this game solely because of its ambiguousness. When I was reading it, I felt like you were scum. I saw people agree they felt the same way after I had felt that way when reading the thread. They voted you, I agreed with the vote, so I voted you. I am not "flailing". If anything, you are.

In response to your accusation that I am "buddying", I have associated a connection with you which I will pursue if you flip scum. It's funny that you find me to be buddying, when I don't know anyone else's alignment in this game. You must have either a terrible radar or you must be scum. Which is it?

[Skyquiem]

I feel like you are trying to attack your attackers, which is how I interpreted OMGUS. You have done that with Macavity who is the "scummiest" for his "horrible reach", and you're on my balls for me voting you for a very-scummy post.

*raises eyebrow*

Is there some written rule somewhere that says I should cower in fear and do nothing when someone is 'attacking' me?

I don't know about you, but if I dislike how someone is going about something, regardless of if it's directed at me, I'm going say something about it. I don't care if the person is 'attacking' me. That isn't going stop me from 'attacking' right back.

OMGUS is when someone votes someone purely because they voted them and nothing else. I didn't vote Macavity because he voted me, I voted him because I saw that he seemingly ignored my question. Which is scummy to me when someone ignores a question directed at them. I keep my vote on him, because his seeming answer to mine and parma's questions didn't cut it for me. (PS: This means I would love a better explanation then the crap you handed me Macavity, just an FYI~)

I'm 'on your balls' as you say, because your vote actually did nothing or added anything to what was going on. It was just a vote, and a very misplaced and opportunistic vote. They call this 'sheeping' from where I come from. Does this hold true here as well?

The scummiest post yet in this game solely because of its ambiguousness. When I was reading it, I felt like you were scum. I saw people agree they felt the same way after I had felt that way when reading the thread. They voted you, I agreed with the vote, so I voted you. I am not "flailing". If anything, you are.

I have looked at said post in a completely objective standpoint, and yet I still can't find a reason for why that post is as you say, 'the scummest one yet!'

Do you, as in Furcolow not anyone else, actually find said post as suspicious as Macavity and Jenn do, or are we seemingly unable to think for ourselves and just jumping at the latest person's findings as if it were you own?

I think your definition of 'flailing' is completely different from mine, as I don't really think pressure even needs to added for said term to transpire.

In response to your accusation that I am "buddying", I have associated a connection with you which I will pursue if you flip scum. It's funny that you find me to be buddying, when I don't know anyone else's alignment in this game. You must have either a terrible radar or you must be scum. Which is it?

I say your 'budding', because you vote without adding anything to the 'case'. Sheeping as it were, because your vote didn't seem very awe-inspiring.

Also, don't quote the whole thing if all your going to do is point out one line or so. That's unnecessary wall space >.>

[MacavityLock]

Sorry, missed this before.

Can we discuss what the advantages and disadvantages of revealing where we all live?

I prefer that we not reveal our own location, simply because we don't have enough insight in the setup yet to know that revealing location will benefit town.

Yeah, this.

I'm not really seeing why it's a bad idea to discuss potential locations of likely scum characters.

If we're correct about the assumption that those characters are scum

, we're not giving them any information at all. If we're wrong about the assumption that they're scum, then they are extremely unlikely fakeclaims. Then there is the chance that those characters are simply not in the game, and

the fact that if one scum player has read the book he can give his partners all info they need.

Can you explain why you believe this to be a bad idea, macavity?

For the italics, the fact that we don't know the setup yet makes this moderately meaningless or possible noise. The flip side is the possibility that it does help us scumhunt, but also helps scum power-hunt or somesuch. I tend to think our mod didn't create the locations as a way to break the game. Even if it could potentially help town, I would bet that there are offsets, and without more knowledge, I don't want to risk it.

As for the bold, do you think the scum have day talk? What if they didn't coordinate and detail before the day start and they only have night talk? I'd rather have traps out even if they may be useless, than to trip said traps before they've even had a chance to see if they might work.

----

I keep my vote on him, because his seeming answer to mine and parma's questions didn't cut it for me.

Why not?

(PS: This means I would love a better explanation then the crap you handed me Macavity, just an FYI~)

And, yeah, I'm good for now.

All the players you've mentioned as scummy have their votes on you. So, are there any scum out there that have their eyes in other directions?

----

Also, don't quote the whole thing if all your going to do is point out one line or so. That's unnecessary wall space >.>

This I can agree with. Formatting all nice like is aces.

----

Moderate LA from now until Tuesday. I will likely be able to check in and post, but do not expect to be able to provide high volume.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Coach Travis' point on parama is nonsense; it's absolutely valid to criticize someone for pressuring someone else for perceived bad reasons. In fact that's exactly what Coach Travis was doing with his post; criticizing parama for pressuring for perceived bad reasons. I've said this recently in other games where similar situations occurred with such blatant hypocrisy; unless CT wants to announce himself as scum to validate this tell as legitimate I'm not buying what he's selling.

[Furcolow]

I feel like you are trying to attack your attackers, which is how I interpreted OMGUS. You have done that with Macavity who is the "scummiest" for his "horrible reach", and you're on my balls for me voting you for a very-scummy post.

*raises eyebrow*

Is there some written rule somewhere that says I should cower in fear and do nothing when someone is 'attacking' me?

I don't know about you, but if I dislike how someone is going about something, regardless of if it's directed at me, I'm going say something about it. I don't care if the person is 'attacking' me. That isn't going stop me from 'attacking' right back.

OMGUS is when someone votes someone purely because they voted them and nothing else. I didn't vote Macavity because he voted me, I voted him because I saw that he seemingly ignored my question.

Which is scummy to me when someone ignores a question directed at them. I keep my vote on him, because his seeming answer to mine and parma's questions didn't cut it for me. (PS: This means I would love a better explanation then the crap you handed me Macavity, just an FYI~)

I'm 'on your balls' as you say, because your vote actually did nothing or added anything to what was going on. It was just a vote, and a very misplaced and opportunistic vote. They call this 'sheeping' from where I come from. Does this hold true here as well?

The scummiest post yet in this game solely because of its ambiguousness. When I was reading it, I felt like you were scum. I saw people agree they felt the same way after I had felt that way when reading the thread. They voted you, I agreed with the vote, so I voted you. I am not "flailing". If anything, you are.

I have looked at said post in a completely objective standpoint, and yet I still can't find a reason for why that post is as you say, 'the scummest one yet!'

Do you, as in Furcolow not anyone else, actually find said post as suspicious as Macavity and Jenn do, or are we seemingly unable to think for ourselves and just jumping at the latest person's findings as if it were you own?

I think your definition of 'flailing' is completely different from mine, as I don't really think pressure even needs to added for said term to transpire.

In response to your accusation that I am "buddying", I have associated a connection with you which I will pursue if you flip scum. It's funny that you find me to be buddying, when I don't know anyone else's alignment in this game. You must have either a terrible radar or you must be scum. Which is it?

I say your 'budding', because you vote without adding anything to the 'case'. Sheeping as it were, because your vote didn't seem very awe-inspiring.

Also, don't quote the whole thing if all your going to do is point out one line or so. That's unnecessary wall space >.>

In response to bold: You wouldn't have voted him had he not voted you. You can lie and say you would have, but you would still be fucking lying. To address your comment about "sheeping", that is not the case here. I came to the conclusion you were scum independently when reading the thread. I'm sorry that you are so obvious. It sucks for you. Get over it, try better next game, and stop crying about it.

In response to the italicized: I have told you two or three times now that I found that post scummy on my own. Your post jumped out at me as being a lot of talk about nothing. I got scummy vibes from it, and I would have kept you being scum in mind while I tried to make connections to who you are on a team with. It made me open my eyes up to you being scum. Would I have voted you had people not addressed their problems with your post? Nope. I would have waited to find out who you're partnered with.

Do I really need to repeat myself this many times? Do you read? It doesn't feel like that's the problem. It feels like the problem here is that you are feigning obliviousness. That is what I got from your scummy post, and that is what I'm getting here from your play now. You know that I'm right, and you know that there is no justifiable defense for yourself, so you go on the offensive afterwards. Your play feels fake and forced.

That being said, I am very happy with my vote. I consider what you're doing to be OMGUS towards Macavity, and squirmy play towards me. Your FoS you're trying to place on me through this post was only done so because I am pushing for your lynch. You have no reason to be attacking anyone other than that. It sucks you have to actually fabricate a case whereas I am like 90% sure that you really are scum.

guys please consider a skyquiem wagon

[MichelSableheart]

quick post to say I'm still here. It's 1:30 am now, expect content tomorrow.

[palmertrou]

Benmage is Town. I hope the

certain

members of town realise why i say this. If not, figure it out. My eyes have been opened, I won't be walking that road anymore.

[MichelSableheart]

"Imagine your a town PR and nobody knows what place correspondes to which person/people/nobody". I basically didn't feel it necesary to complicate that sentance because I don't think your all idiots.

I don't believe one bit of this. If you actually intended to include all those three options, you would have used "persons" instead of "person". Your claim that you did consider the possibility of multiple players having the same location, but consciously decided to only use the singular, is complete rubbish.

Palmer is by far my top suspect at this moment. His distractive discussion of adopting someone elses meta, the needless discussion of powerroles, potentially revealing inside info... His play is anti-town in the extreme, and likely coming from scum in my opinion.

Regarding Sky: I agree that there is a bit of OMGUS in his posts. However, I don't think that necessarily makes him scum, in fact, it seems like a slight towntell to me. His attacks feel like town who knows there's nothing wrong with his posts, rather then scum trying to chase his attackers away.

[palmertrou]

How can I be "potentially revealing inside info" and be scum?

[palmertrou]

"Imagine your a town PR and nobody knows what place correspondes to which person/people/nobody". I basically didn't feel it necesary to complicate that sentance because I don't think your all idiots.

I don't believe one bit of this. If you actually intended to include all those three options, you would have used "persons" instead of "person". Your claim that you did consider the possibility of multiple players having the same location, but consciously decided to only use the singular, is complete rubbish.

Well, that's his opinion. He's making it out to be much more of an issue than it really is. I can understand why he'd think something was amiss. I'm guilty of generalising, nothing more. Most locations will have 1 person in unless a few of them have nobody living there (which I didn't think about until we starting discussing the possibilities), so that's how come I ended up generalising.

[Furcolow]

"Imagine your a town PR and nobody knows what place correspondes to which person/people/nobody". I basically didn't feel it necesary to complicate that sentance because I don't think your all idiots.

I don't believe one bit of this. If you actually intended to include all those three options, you would have used "persons" instead of "person". Your claim that you did consider the possibility of multiple players having the same location, but consciously decided to only use the singular, is complete rubbish.

Palmer is by far my top suspect at this moment. His distractive discussion of adopting someone elses meta, the needless discussion of powerroles, potentially revealing inside info... His play is anti-town in the extreme, and likely coming from scum in my opinion.

Regarding Sky: I agree that there is a bit of OMGUS in his posts. However, I don't think that necessarily makes him scum, in fact, it seems like a slight towntell to me.

His attacks feel like town who knows there's nothing wrong with his posts, rather then scum trying to chase his attackers away.

No, but YOU feel like scum trying to chase his attackers away.
I will note your defense of him, and upon his flip, will remember this.

[Parama]

Ugh. I honestly can't get interested in this game. Walls upon walls make me not want to read and I haven't seen anything of interest in the posts that I have read fully. Sigh. Someone do something stupid to make this game pick up the pace.

Disclaimer: I will whine about annoying wallposting one day then will post a huge wall the next day. I don't like walls, but if I have a lot to say I will write one. However, when everyone's constantly wall posting, most posts are guaranteed to be full of fluff that nobody gives a damn about.

[palmertrou]

Ugh. I honestly can't get interested in this game. Walls upon walls make me not want to read and I haven't seen anything of interest in the posts that I have read fully. Sigh. Someone do something stupid to make this game pick up the pace.

Parama, there are lots of avenues for discussion right now. Hell, if you wanted someone to act stupid then I was your wish. I generally share those feelings on day 1, hence I thought I'd try and get things going by being a little unorthadox. I got unanimously attacked for it, so I stopped. If you want something doing, do it yourself.

[MichelSableheart]

How can I be "potentially revealing inside info" and be scum?

Scum know more then town, in general. So if anyone has inside info, it's usually scum. In this case, I feel that you have been revealing knowledge that there was exactly one player at each location. And you could only know that if you knew that scum didn't have a location.

@furcolow: so you honestly believe that's sky's attacks on macavity and you are intended to make others not want to vote him because then he'll attack them as well? It might be just me, but his attacks don't seem nearly threatening enough for that. Also, any indication why you believe me defending a scumbuddy is more likely then me defending a slight townread who's under attack?

@Parama: stop whining, start playing please.

[Furcolow]

your tone is snooty which implies that you are in a position of power which implies you have knowledge/power
furthermore, i feel like you chainsawed some slightly. sort of like the difference between a softclaim and a full claim.

you sort of soft-chainsawed him
i dislike it this early in a game
i feel like he is scum. i do not care how he is attacking his attackers, the fact you are admitting he is doing that is enough that you should vote him. what made him "slight town" to you in the first place? just because you believe he's "town" doesn't mean he is. I know that the opposite of that, me believing he's scum, doesn't mean he is, but you are making me believe that I was right.

I dislike you telling Parama what to do as well

Anyone up for a wagon on this guy? Pretty sure I've caught 2 scum in 4 pages.

[Locke Lamora]

The Last Mistake was a sort of monument to the failure of human artifice at critical moments; its walls were covered in a bewildering variety of souvenirs, each one telling a visual tale that ended with the verdict 'Not quite good enough.'
Interlude - The Last Mistake

Vote Count 3!

palmertrou - 3 (MichelSableheart, Coach Travis, Debonair Danny DiPietro)
Skyquiem - 3 (MacavityLock, jenniwren, Furcolow)
MacavityLock - 2 (ThAdmiral, Skyquiem)
Debonair Danny DiPietro - 1 (Benmage)

Not voting - 2 (a2rudeboy, palmertrou, Parama)

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Deadline is Tuesday, October 12th. ThAdmiral has not picked up his prod and I am now searching for a replacement.

[Furcolow]

based upon voting, if skyquiem is scum i am fairly certain that palmertrou would have to be scum. this makes it difficult for michelsableheart, skyquiem, and palmertrou to all be scum unless michelsableheart wanted to start a wagon on his buddy.

I regret attacking you now after seeing where the votes are, Michel.
I am going to have to re-analyze where my position is.
When the replacement gets here, hopefully we get a fresh opinion on who is scummy.

unvote

for now

[Locke Lamora]

a2rudeboy has been prodded. I believe Benmage, Coach Travis and jenniwren are on the bubble, but I will treat the weekend as 24 hours so they are not due one until tonight.

[Furcolow]

thanks for hosting LL!
off to bed for now

[Coach Travis]

Yeah, right now I don't think MSh is scum, since his case on palmer was pretty good, and I don't mind his defense of Skyquiem, since while I'm interpreting his posts as scummy, it's not impossible to interpret his play the way MSh did, and that's certainly nothing worth attacking him for. So far he's been one of the better players, I think. Not sure about Furcolow:His sudden switch like that seems weird, but then again, I played in a game where he was town and he was erratic, so he's only a minor suspect. That being said, palmer and Skyquiem are still my top suspects.

[palmertrou]

Just realised that we shouldn't mass location claim due to sample role pm and Duke Nicovante whereabouts. Why didn't anyone just point that out?