Mini 1064 - Charlie's Town (Game Over!)

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/confirm.

And here...we...go...

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VOTE: Shotty

For having the best /confirm quote.

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UNVOTE: whoever I had my vote on for rvs
VOTE: Masfloohinev

FoS aimed at your probable scum buddy and two posts with little to no content, and a lot of ambiguity.

Especially posts 52 and 53. They are scummy as hell. 51 is decent, at least it kind of makes a point, but then you blew that by saying "I'll explain later."

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You're quotes are pointless when it's essentially the whole ISO (5/6 post-start posts) with zero explanation. Post 50 was hyperbole if you want to get technical, the point was focused at mahfloo and OMGUS from GHP. "Little to no" doesn't mean zero either, Richard and mahfloogsfaslk are the best bet right now in my opinion, so I'm voting them and laying out some points. If you want to sit around and wait til page 10 to start I'll just back off and we can twiddle our thumbs and not generate any info.

No. Let's lynch Masf. He's scum and he FoS'd his scum buddy.

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@masfloos, No, they're not bad reasons. Your argument is bad. You cast suspicion towards GHP even though he didn't really do anything suspicious, because you know something we don't. But, you'd rather FoS him because it's your scum buddy and you don't want to push that wagon very hard. Now you're trying to make it look like a bad play because that's exactly what you did. I've seen scum do it time and time again. You're appearing to contribute without casting a vote. Unless you'd care to provide a reasonable explanation as to why you're bothering with an FoS on page 3, I want to see you flip so I know what GHP is. I didn't even suspect GHP until you FoS'd him.

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EBWOP: I haven't read the last 3-5 posts aka the walls of text, will do that later tonight. So the previous comment is made without those posts in mind.

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We are feeling that Richard is very likely scum. His only reaction to the wagon on him is to say nothing and push the counter wagon on Shotty. He then avoids all the big talking points by placing a horribly reasoned vote on Nacho, that he quickly abandons with no further comment or push on anyone. He did have it set up to switch his vote over to CES, since he accused him of the same things as Nacho. Yet he didn't switch. Opting instead to unvote which isn't helpful to anyone. Possibly in an attempt to slip under the radar as Mas v Shotty garners more interest.

With how scummy Richard is, Mas and his reasonless Shotty vote looks like an attempt to distract the town away from the growing Richard wagon. Still we find Richard scummier than Mas, so no switch from us.

Is nobody else concerned with FakeGod's failure to contribute anything but usless one liners?

What was useless about FakeGod's post 93?

Shotty, please address our questions in post 76

Here's the thing: Mas's playstyle is very reactionary at this point. If I switch my vote to him, OMG, he reacts in an angry fashion. There'd be no difference in his reaction than what he's done before and probably nothing that we would learn from it. So instead, I left my vote where it is because I think it's much more interesting to note the connection between you and Shotty, and something that I would prefer to explore more before I move my vote elsewhere, especially since my read on mas is a gut-read, and I don't typically hold much with my gut.

Are you scared of getting a reaction from mafs? If your gut case is based on him being reactionary, wouldn't voting for him provide more evidence of him being scum for the reasoning you laid out?

Would really like to hear more from CES and Reckamonic and to get a response from Shotty.

Given that my entire theory revolves around a GHP/Mas Team, based on the FoS from Mas onto GHP, I'll switch my vote because they're both scum. I would strongly ask you to consider taking Mas though. I think he's so blatantly scum at this point it's hard to miss. Especially with the whole "What do you think about SpyreX and FakeGod?" That is such a scummy question to be asking with how many votes are his direction right now.

UNVOTE: Mas
VOTE: GHP

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Duely noted. VOTE: Richard

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Put it this way: If you hammer me for the giggles, you won't look good. I'm already on to you and your evil organisation. Tell me who you're cahoots with and I'll go easy.

VOTE: SpyreX

Anyone who doesn't see this breadcrumb will be next on my scum list.

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As Richard said, Obv breadcrum is obv.

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Is that actually your defense?

Please let that be your defense.

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See the quotes. Die scum.

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Because I magically confused this game with my newbie game which is in day 2. Apologies.

UNVOTE: SpyreX

Will get a better, non-retarded post up later.

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And by in day 2 I mean I thought the night scene occurred when we already had one night for him to investigate. God I'm making myself into the VI right now.

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And by in day 2 I mean I thought the night scene occurred when we already had one night for him to investigate. God I'm making myself into the VI right now.

I've got too many god damn games, I'm trying to replace out of the one I just got put into cause I didn't /out of the newbie que. I thought that we had already been through one night, because that one has been in day 2 for a while. As I said, I said something absolutely retarded, hence the 2nd post about turning myself into the VI.

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Should we lynch inside the wagon or the outside?

If we assume 2 scum on cop wagon and 1 scum outside, that gives us about 2/7 nailing scum inside the wagon, and 1/3 nailing scum outside the wagon.

I don't follow this argument. Why would we assume two on the wagon and one off, unless you've got information we don't? This math is wayyyyy too subjective.

Also, does no one else find Mas scummy? q21 made good points on him in his posts 6, 7, and 8 (read in Iso). I also found him scummy day 1, for reasons I've already detailed. Even though Richard flipped cop it doesn't make Mas any less suspicious to me on a reread. I still find his FoS on Richard suspicious and oddly timed, and posts 52 and 53 still come off as scummy to me.

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Sorry, post coming this weekend. Life is kicking my ass right now.

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First off, Substrike, get off your high horse because that breadcrumb was not obvious at all, so stop. We've finally agreed with Cogito Ergo Sum on one thing: FakeGod's 166 is really badposting. Also, his insistence in post 180 that we should lynch from the Richard wagon is very bad. It's not like the people on the wagon knew that they were lynching a cop, and the scum could've VERY easily stayed off the wagon and let town lynch town.

Speaking of town on town, Cogito & Casus are both town, so we should just move on past that argument. masfloohinev's 195 is terribad: "Oh hey I suspect the person who hammered and I'm also going back on a town read so I don't back myself into a corner here". Furthermore, his questioning on CES, FakeGod, nachomamma, and Substrike in 196 feels incredibly fluffy, and not in a good way. We don't believe that he actually thinks SpyreX is scum, nor do we think he actually suspects Shotty right now.

ALSO SPYREX, WE HAVE FULL HYDRA CLEARANCE TO INITIATE ALL CAPS LAWK ALLIANCE ACTIVITIES. LET'S RUN THIS BITCH WHOOOOOOOOOOO

Oh haha FakeGod's vote on SpyreX is cute.

The scumteam consists of: masfloohinev, FakeGod, and someone else. Still trying to figure out who that other person is. Could be any of Substrike, Nachomamma8, and Shotty, but they're hardly posting enough for us to get good reads.

Vote: FakeGod

THANKIES~!

Yeah first of all, there was no "high horse", I spent the next half page of the forum calling myself an idiot for the mistaken reasoning there. Please read that too before you start going after me. Thanks.

FakeGod is my most comfortably scum right now:

What was useless about FakeGod's post 93?

All it was was a post giving his opinions regarding mafia theory. No reads or questions or anything helpful in it. Convince me otherwise.

Let's see..... we have a RVS wagon, then another wagon quickly popped up soon afterwards.

I expressed that I'm thinking Richard is more likely to be mafia than Shotty since there's a chance that town caught a mafia in the first wagon, and his mafia buddies are attempting a rescue via presenting another wagon.

The speed of the wagon, as you may have noticed, was pretty fast, and this is actually pretty important. This is important because: town usually have few people who tends to vote "faster" (trigger-happy?), and emergence of a new wagon usually means that "faster" people will abandon the original wagon for the new one. This is not what happened. The original wagon on Richard was stable despite the growing counter-wagon on Shotty. This implies that something else (for example, mafia might be fueling the second wagon) is at work here.

Or, that a majority of the mafia was on the first wagon and relying on a second counter-wagon before they RVS L-1'd or Lynched the cop... The reasoning of your post with the whole "trigger happy" part runs counter to your conclusion. If "trigger happy" town were on the first wagon, they'd jump to the second with your line of reasoning. Instead they stayed on the first wagon, with some people on the 2nd wagon sneaking onto the first one at the end. I think 1 scum was in the initial group, and I think that was you, based on the argument you tried to make.

Also, reading back on day one, flipping FakeGod will help give us reads on other people. A lot of people started talking about potential busing of FakeGod and such.

so Richard didn't claim when he was about to die?

*shrug*

I guess he wanted to be lynched.

I also see this is as a not so subtle attempt to score town points by commenting on the recent lynch of a town power role in a town-manner. It's scummy.

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VOTE: FakeGod

I'll go ahead and follow up my eariler post and cast the vote at this point.

Reck, do you think FakeGod is a better lynch than Mas right now? You have an entire post dedicated to scummy things that Mas has done, and yet your vote is on FakeGod; I read over your post outlining everything scummy about him, and it reaffirmed the suspicions I expressed on day 1.

I also agree with your sentiments about the wall of text. I think his case on FakeGod is particularly suspect, because it pulls out a fact that would've been made into a WIFOM argument either way and attempts to make it seem like a scum slip.

Actually.

UNVOTE: FakeGod
VOTE: Masfloohinev

Thoughts?

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Nacho, just to be clear are all of those parenthesis possible scum teams, or what? Or did I miss the explanation of that somewhere?

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@ Fake, in response to your question last page, I like Nacho, he's one of my townest reads.

UNVOTE: Mas
VOTE: FakeGod

Fake you're active lurking. You pop in every so often, ask an irrelevant question, then go back to active lurking, except to come in and ask Shotty for a claim?

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@ Casus, 2 reasons, 1) Mas was voting FakeGod and I still believe Mas to be scum, which was giving me second thoughts about FakeGod
2) I still thought there was discussion to be had on day 2 and I wasn't ready to start pushing for a lynch.

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Unvote. Vote: FakeGod

I don't want to lynch somebody getting replaced, and FakeGod's the only alternative and the one I would prefer to see lynched anyway.

UNVOTE: FakeGod
VOTE: Masflooh

That's where my vote will stay. This is the scummiest post I've seen this game. Plus the whole shopping list of candidates five-six pages ago. Things are adding up to scum for Mas, more so than Fake at this point. In fact if Mas flips scum I doubt FakeGod is scum too, based on this post.

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Also,

Mod

, we have that one week extension, yes? Due to Shotty being replaced?

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(sorry about triple post) Actually I wouldn't die of shock if Shotty was scum that just got replaced, Mas used a really easy reason to jump ship on that wagon and onto another one. I want Mas though, not shotty. Shotty can wait for tomorrow.

Nacho, how do you feel about this?

Also if anyone fails to see how convenient that was for Mas I'll be highly, highly suspicious of you.

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Because you were busing your buddy to gain credibility and then the opportunity presented itself to kill a townie and make it look legitimate, you just failed at doing it. I agree that FakeGod is still suspect, but I don't find it likely that Mas would jump off of a Shotty bandwagon and onto a FakeGod wagon if his intention was to bus someone. I feel like we were observing a busing attempt and then when the opportunity to save his scum buddy presented itself, he took it. Although, your idea of an attempt at a quick-lynch seems just as likely; so, this kind of becomes a WIFOM argument, but none the less, something to think about. I have a feeling that either Shotty or Fake are scum, because otherwise that transition of vote doesn't make that much sense to me. Also I find your quote of Jmurph interesting, and would also like to hear an explanation.

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Sup all. Nacho is scum. Key thing in this is what happened day one.

He votes RGHP, someone who he never called scum before, and actually never even MENTIONS, simply in order to call Spys bluff or something along those lines. Essentially risking a null to town read getting hammered. Starting day two this appears to have had no bearing on a Spy read, so that throws out the line of thoughts that it was to gain a read on the Spy slot.

Nacho is scum, saw this as a way to get a quicklynch of town and not take the blame, and since then went right back to where he was before he got "really tempted to essentially hammer someone he expressed zero opinion of".

unvote
Vote Nacho

You, as one of my top 3 scum candidates, come in and attempt to pin a bad day one by everyone on Nacho, of all people?

So, at least now we know Shotty was scum, and Llama has clearly taken up those reigns. I'll stick with Mas, as I'm close to 100% sure he's scum, but Llama/Shotty's looking good for tomorrow.

Also, Reck I think brings up an interesting point about FakeGod jumping on the vote switch from Mas, but if I were at L-1 and town, I'd probably try to jump on that too. Just sayin'. Someone does something obviously scummy, it's obviously scummy regardless of how many votes you've got on you. But, as I said, the point is still noted. I think it'd be funny if we were looking at a Mas/Llama(shotty)/Fake scum-team.

Spyre, I don't buy your "it's too bad a post" argument. If it's "too bad" then why aren't you voting him? If it's scummy, it's scummy, even if it's genuine.

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I'm space-positive one of Shotty / FG is scum. So, lets say I'm wrong about Shotty. You think FG's LEAP is a bus leap with the added bonus of self-preservation in a situation where, realistically, there's no town cred because of said self-preservation?
Really?

I agree. I'm leaning shotty at this point.

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I buy Mas' point that he was on FakeGod's case before, but most of that case revolved around WIFOM arguments. Plus, his wall of text outlining his reads on every player reads very scummy to me, as does a lot of his play from day one. Plus when most of his defense revolves around saying that he believe's someone's post is "stupid" and not addressing it, well. Scum is scum. The vote was opportunistic, bottom line, in my opinion. The WIFOM part of MY post was regarding your reasons for the quick change, Mas; Either way, it reads scum. There was no reason for you to take that off of L-1. Mas' initial vote on Shotty was extremely convenient, it was a "because I'm bored" post, and it was a nice attempt at busing. Plus with all the day 1 crap between them, with both of them arguing back and forth but not really making any solid points, it was a good attempt at making it seem like one of them was town if the other flipped scum. But all of that is unraveling right now.

Nacho, to answer that second question above, because it makes it look like he's busing him? As I said I don't think Fake is scum anymore, based on Mas. Fake has acted scummy at points, but overall I'm not getting the same reads now that a few of my other reads have changed.

I think Fake was going to be the casualty of opportunity. If you look at Mas' wall of textpwn where he outlines his arguments on everyone, most of his arguments against Fake are WIFOM; he was taking advantage of an opportunity, based on town-lead suspicion on FakeGod. Scum was trying to push a lynch anywhere but on himself.

Also he gave Shotty (my suspected scum buddy for him) a "neutral" read on his "list", and almost every game I've played where a scum has made a "list" he lists at least one scum buddy as neutral. Since I'm one of the others listed as neutral, I know that scum is Shotty. But, I still want to flip Mas first, in case I'm wrong, since Shotty himself wasn't really as suspicious on an ISO read of him.

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Oh but it's not. You're giving off all sorts of scum tells. I've highlighted them. Individually they might not warrant me holding my vote on you. Together they're more than enough for a body of evidence.

I've already explained all the things I needed to. You're attempting to create circular arguments that won't go anywhere. You need rope. The only point above worth discussing is point 3, so I will. The fact that he flipped town only makes me more suspicious of you. Everyone else recognized his scummy behavior (up until his "breadcrumb" claim) and then you were like "oh maybe not". Know something we don't?

Your vote was opportunistic onto Shotty, and opportunistic off of it. Your case on your primary vote is bad, and your secondary vote didn't even have a case to follow.

Yeah I'll go work on that, sorry I'm so bad at this. That really hurt my feelings. :....( I care so much about your opinion. Also, proof that I

can

is that it happened. Talk about logical fallacies, geez.

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I agree w/ Llama and Nacho. Mass claims starting with Mas.

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Claim VT. Popcorn Nacho.

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2. SpyreX - VT
4. Nachomamma8 - JOAT
5. LlamaFluff, who replaced Shotty to the Body - VT
6. Cogito Ergo Sum * - VT
8. Substrike22 - VT
9. Reckamonic * - Doc
10. masfloohinev - VT
11. Casus Belli (aka Sotty7/xvart) * - Town Tracker
12. jmurph3 - VT

I don't think there are any mistakes on there, but I did it off of memory, so anyone can feel free to correct it.

Dead people include
RichardGHP = Confirmed Cop
FakeGod = VT
q21 = Townie

Reck how do you feel about this? If you didn't save someone I'd say the likeliness that Nacho used his doc JOAT ability on the guy who was going to be killed is unlikely, but it is also the only other possible explanation; barring the mafia choosing not to kill someone last night, in an attempt to invoke this mass claim today. Not sure how much sense that scenario makes, but worth mentioning.

Also, considering that possibility, it means that either Mas is a power role that was tracked (if I know trackers correctly, they simply reveal that an action was taken, but not the alignment of this action, correct?), which is now odd given his insistence on claiming VT, or alternatively that Casus is lying in an attempt to push the popular counter wagon from yesterday and the scum know something we don't. Is it possible that given the number of town power roles, we're looking at 4 scum? That would make the non-kill a lot more sensible in exchange for a mass-claim and a push on mas. There is also a possibility that we're looking at a 3 person scum team and a traitor, which was at some point recruited. Potentially last night, given the lack of a night kill... you know this actually makes a decent amount of sense, more so than a 4 person mafia speculation. Trade a night kill for the traitor, potentially boosting their number to 4, making the easy push on Mas workable.

Edit - Ninja'd by Llama.

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It's worth asking since the cat's out of the bag here, Nacho, would you be willing to say if you saved someone last night, and if so, who? It would potentially answer questions.

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This whole game is just trippy.

We cant go further until after Nacho claims what he did and CB responds with where M went however.

This is why you will be getting my vote after we're done sorting out this mass claim business and lynching the appropriate people.

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Mas is dying today.

I have to say though, I'm uneasy about the number of power roles. I'm uneasy, as Llama said, that we'd have both a Cop and a Tracker. I understand sanity issues might balance that, but I am still concerned. I don't see there being 4 pro-town roles in any kind of balanced game. Reck said he'd rage if there were 4 scum, well I think the scum would rage if they had 4 power roles to contend with. Might I suggest that one of our power roles is lying to us. I think it'd be super interesting if Nacho and Casus were scum buddies. Casus "tracks" his scum buddy Mas, (who, may I remind everyone, was pretty high on the "lynchable" list for today, so they didn't lose all that much.) the no kill is explained by a out-of-left-field JOAT claim. Doc and Cop vs. Scum. I'd think that's more likely of a scenario. Plus the Mass Claim that gets suggested today (logical based on the no kill) flushes out any potential investigative roles for a night kill tonight, leaving us unable to check the alignment of the remaining power roles. Thoughts?

I would also echo Llama's call for Nacho to explain himself, unless it compromises his role in some way. I don't know why that information should just be "assumed". I don't think i assume anyone is a "bad" player, but I think it's unfair to assume that anyone in a mafia game is a town player, and this is information. One way or the other.

Once we have that, I'll race Llama for the vote on Mas because I've been wanting this guy since D1.

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VOTE: Mas

Because I've been waiting too long not to.

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You already hammered. I've been pushing for his lynch since day 1, I wanted my name on his tombstone. Plus the only thing I was waiting on was your decision to either reveal how you knew the alignment connection existed or not, since you opted not to, time to move to tomorrow.

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VOTE: cb

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UNVOTE: CB

Something's not sitting right with me.

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Nacho's comment + Reck's comment above doesn't add up. If Nacho, who is now confirmed town and therefore had no reason to lie, thinks CB and Reck are of the same alignment, and now we have Reck pushing for CB's lynch despite the fact. This is either the world's worst busing attempt or there's no reason to lynch CB from Reck's standpoint... they've essentially become town-confirmed to one another. Therefore I find Reck's comment highly, highly suspect.

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Llama is confirmed town.

CB and Reck are essentially non-alignment confirmed masons at this point.

CB supposedly tracked Mas last night and witnessed him going to Llama, correct? Did he at any point indicate who he tracked on the first night and the result?

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I unvoted because I want to hear you out, CB, and now I want an explanation from Reck, too.

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CB, entertaining your notion for a second, who do you think is scum?

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Reck who did you save on N1?

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Substrike: why does Nacho being confirmed town make his suspicions/thoughts any more legitimate?

Spoiler alert, it doesn't.

And...now that you mention it...we never got full results from every night from CB, did we?

CB. FULL CLAIM. IN YOUR NEXT POST.

Also anyone who flips town in my book makes their reads more legitimate. It means that it's not scum trying to pull wool down over people's eyes. It makes me more inclined to look at that player and consider what they were saying, particularly if that player proved themselves competent throughout the game; which Nacho clearly had. I'm at least willing to consider the possibility that a proven-town JOAT, with at least a decent thought process, had a fairly good reason for believing the hydras were aligned. I'm not sure how, and I'm wishing he'd elaborated yesterday, but there's nothing we can do about that now. Also, for some reason, I'm more inclined to vote jmurph than CB right now. Just throwing that out there.

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Yes yes... we both know you each think the other has to be scum. Either of you actually think otherwise?

Also Sub, CB is almost for sure scum. Go read what I said about his reaction to a no result. Also go look at how town would have to of had a cop, JOAT (risky but strong one), full on doctor and one shot tracker for him to be town. Im thinking its town strong info + strong protect + weak combo, followed by scum tracker, scum RBer and tossup between GF and goon. Stop making me wonder if its between you and jmurph instead of you and spy.

Ok I buy this and will vote CB. But, I still want to know Reck's N1 save, because I want to know how Nacho "knows" they share alignment. Reck saving CB on N1 doesn't commit them to being buddies, provided that Reck's a strong protect as you imply. I just wonder if it's part of the reason Nacho established the connection. I have literally no other reason to suspect Reck, which is why this is bothering me so...

VOTE: Casus Belli

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Scum are Spyre and JMurph. Limited posting v/la until Tuesday because of Thanksgiving.

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Sorry, still have very limited access. But I'm on board with jmurph, since its a jmutph spyre team.

VOTE: jmurph

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VOTE: SpyreX

Here goes nothing

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Grrr.