Mini 1040 - Everyone's A Critic! [Game Over]

[mykonian]

I doubt that I would be interested in any of the claims except those of Shotty and Dana and Stef. The others are, as far as I can see, in no immediate danger of a lynch or vig kill. I think it would be foolish to let them claim.

[kunkstar7]

:: VoteCount 2x6 ::

Antihero (1) -

RedCoyote

MagnaofIllusion (0) -

RedCoyote (0) -

danakillsu (2) -

LynchMePls, mykonian

LynchMePls (3) -

MagnaofIllusion, nopointinactingup, danakillsu

nopointinactingup (0) -

CSL (1) -

Antihero

drmyshottyizsik (1) -

CSL

mykonian (0) -

Not Voting (1) -

drmyshottyizsik

With 9 Alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is October 9, 2010 7:00pm EST.

A possible replacement for CSL has been identified, but they will be unavailable till likely this weekend. I will attempt to find a suitable replacement earlier than that if possible.

[danakillsu]

Wait a sec. Gotta PM the mod.

[drmyshottyizsik]

@Everyone: Given MoI's mountainous theory and the fact that the vig is now outed, what do you think of a mass claim popcorn style? We still have a little over a week to deadline.

I support this, I dont see how it could hurt town at all.

[danakillsu]

@RedCoyote
Tell us who you gave the vig ability to NOW. LMP has claimed you gave it to him. Is this true?

[LimMePls]

@RedCoyote
Tell us who you gave the vig ability to NOW. LMP has claimed you gave it to him. Is this true?

Of course it's true. Hence my behavior for this entire day.

Pay attention.

[RedCoyote]

I agree with the mass claim; I don't think there's any point in hiding roles any longer.

[nopointinactingup]

I'm seeing irky moves from Mykonian as of recently:

unvote

now that this is out, RC, can you confirm this?

now that this is further all in the open, and we can settle on a dana lynch, who are we going to vig? At least LMP and RC should talk about this.

This post makes my skin crawl. Particularly the "now that this is out". Further makes me wonder if the scum team is RC/mykonian.

Lol, no this isn't a scumslip. English is my third language, and in this case I misused a way of saying.

If you want to confirm this for yourself, think this: do I sound like a smart guy? If so, would I in any case accidentaly give away that I knew you were the vig?

Deny his Information over Analysis with WIFOMs.

unvote vote Dana

I think Stef/CSL or Shotty should be vigged.

Immediately after the looming possibility that LMP might shoot him for his suspicious behavior, he deflects to other targets.

@Magna: I support a massclaim, but I do not think it is a mountainous Set-Up.

[mykonian]

I won't support a massclaim. I have no interest in showing the roles of Magna, Nopoint, RC, etc. I think we won't gather a lot from a massclaim, and claiming the roles of people who aren't going to be lynched anyway is not smart.

@nopoint. I love WIFOM. I think that an experienced player should never deny the information that is available to him. In this case, you know I'm not English, and you know I'm an experienced player. Which means that getting me caught on something very very obvious might very well be accounted to wrong use of the English language, in stead of me being scum. You'll have more succes with standard scumtells on me that language based ones. (and what you mean with WIFOM here, is that I might be scum. Very true, however this point doesn't make it a lot more likely, which is what I was pointing out.)

And I have been directing the vig more this day. My case on dana had the conclusion that he should be vigged after a LMP lynch (as those were my two top choices for scum), now LMP is the vig, and we shouldn't lynch him, the list changes to lynch dana, and vig CSL/Stef or shotty, who are the next on my scumlist. If LMP thinks I make sense, then he'll shoot someone of them, and since I think they are scum, town might benefit.

[RedCoyote]

I don't know what's worse... if LynchMePls is actually town and the scum kills off our power, or if he's scum and he uses it to kill one of the "acceptable" losses who just happens to be a Townie.

We have to be very specific about this Vig shot, gentlemen.

[mykonian]

I don't know what's worse... if LynchMePls is actually town and the scum kills off our power, or if he's scum and he uses it to kill one of the "acceptable" losses who just happens to be a Townie.

We have to be very specific about this Vig shot, gentlemen.

"Acceptable losses" says it.

I trust you to be town. Please direct LMP and we don't have the problem. Tell him who to vig. If he doesn't, he's scum. Bold your choice, so he can't say he didn't read it.

If scum kills LMP, too bad, we'll have to lynch the next few scum. There really isn't anything we can do about it.

[kunkstar7]

Carapuce replaces CSL effective immediately.

[mykonian]

Carapuce, please vote dana, and if you don't, please tell me why you think your vote should be anywhere else.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Welcome Carapuce!

RC’s confirmation of the hand-off to LMP puts a new spin on his defense of LMP today. Consider all the pressure of I was applying to him based on his defense nullified by this reveal.

Things we know from the exchange –

LMP and Red can’t be scum together and completely faking the Town hand-off unless Jack or HC was the N1 gunman and Mod did not inform us of this with their deaths. If find this to be an unreasonable option.

LMP and Red can’t be scum together as Red could not have handed the Vig to a partner. Both can be Town but only one can be scum.

I think it makes sense to Mass-Claim if either of Red or LMP are scum and makes some sense if neither are scum.

If LMP is scum and we are not in a Mountainous set-up Town loses tonight if we do not lynch scum today. A mass claim would narrow down some choices that we otherwise might decide to lynch.

If Red is scum then regarding Mass-Claims it seems to me to be advantageous to minimize the chances that LMP hit Town PR tonight with his vig. Again this depends on us not being in a Mountainous setting.

The logic for both holds if both scenarios holds if both are Town. We prevent reduce the chances of a mis-lynch and reduce the chances that LMP his a Town PR at night with his Vig choice.

Based on what I have read I’ll tentatively support a Mass-claim. If we do I suggest typical popcorn procedures with either Shotty, Dana, or Carapuce starting.

I just realized something. I have to confirm with the mod first that it is ok for me to share this information, but if I'm correct, I think we can settle the RC town/scum question.

Results?

Wait a sec. Gotta PM the mod.

Reasons and results?

UNVOTE: LMP until the decision to Mass-claim or not is made.

So far I see 4 supports (NoPoint, Red, Shotty and myself) and one objection (mykonian). With 9 players alive I suggest 5 going either way should decide the course of action.

MOD – As usual I will be V/LA from 4pm EDT until Monday for regular family weekend duties.

[LimMePls]

Welcome Carapuce!

RC’s confirmation of the hand-off to LMP puts a new spin on his defense of LMP today. Consider all the pressure of I was applying to him based on his defense nullified by this reveal.

Things we know from the exchange –

LMP and Red can’t be scum together and completely faking the Town hand-off unless Jack or HC was the N1 gunman and Mod did not inform us of this with their deaths. If find this to be an unreasonable option.

LMP and Red can’t be scum together as Red could not have handed the Vig to a partner. Both can be Town but only one can be scum.

I think it makes sense to Mass-Claim if either of Red or LMP are scum and makes some sense if neither are scum.

If LMP is scum and we are not in a Mountainous set-up Town loses tonight if we do not lynch scum today. A mass claim would narrow down some choices that we otherwise might decide to lynch.

If Red is scum then regarding Mass-Claims it seems to me to be advantageous to minimize the chances that LMP hit Town PR tonight with his vig. Again this depends on us not being in a Mountainous setting.

The logic for both holds if both scenarios holds if both are Town. We prevent reduce the chances of a mis-lynch and reduce the chances that LMP his a Town PR at night with his Vig choice.

Based on what I have read I’ll tentatively support a Mass-claim. If we do I suggest typical popcorn procedures with either Shotty, Dana, or Carapuce starting.

I just realized something. I have to confirm with the mod first that it is ok for me to share this information, but if I'm correct, I think we can settle the RC town/scum question.

Results?

Wait a sec. Gotta PM the mod.

Reasons and results?

UNVOTE: LMP until the decision to Mass-claim or not is made.

So far I see 4 supports (NoPoint, Red, Shotty and myself) and one objection (mykonian). With 9 players alive I suggest 5 going either way should decide the course of action.

MOD – As usual I will be V/LA from 4pm EDT until Monday for regular family weekend duties.

This is basically my reasons for calling for the mass claim. And don't leave me off the support list, I definitely support it.

The results was the issue of receiving the gun a day after D2 had started. I wasn't sure if I could reveal timing of communications, and I can as long as I'm vague (and don't use timestamps).

mykonian is looking desperate. What is up with the demanding carapuce to vote dana? I think we should freeze voting until we've decided what we're doing re:massclaim.

Unvote

[LimMePls]

I don't know what's worse... if LynchMePls is actually town and the scum kills off our power, or if he's scum and he uses it to kill one of the "acceptable" losses who just happens to be a Townie.

We have to be very specific about this Vig shot, gentlemen.

Hows this for specific. Right now I want to shoot mykonian. What do you think about this?

[mykonian]

Welcome Carapuce!

RC’s confirmation of the hand-off to LMP puts a new spin on his defense of LMP today. Consider all the pressure of I was applying to him based on his defense nullified by this reveal.

Things we know from the exchange –

LMP and Red can’t be scum together and completely faking the Town hand-off unless Jack or HC was the N1 gunman and Mod did not inform us of this with their deaths. If find this to be an unreasonable option.

LMP and Red can’t be scum together as Red could not have handed the Vig to a partner. Both can be Town but only one can be scum.

I think it makes sense to Mass-Claim if either of Red or LMP are scum and makes some sense if neither are scum.

If LMP is scum and we are not in a Mountainous set-up Town loses tonight if we do not lynch scum today. A mass claim would narrow down some choices that we otherwise might decide to lynch.

If Red is scum then regarding Mass-Claims it seems to me to be advantageous to minimize the chances that LMP hit Town PR tonight with his vig. Again this depends on us not being in a Mountainous setting.

The logic for both holds if both scenarios holds if both are Town. We prevent reduce the chances of a mis-lynch and reduce the chances that LMP his a Town PR at night with his Vig choice.

Based on what I have read I’ll tentatively support a Mass-claim. If we do I suggest typical popcorn procedures with either Shotty, Dana, or Carapuce starting.

I just realized something. I have to confirm with the mod first that it is ok for me to share this information, but if I'm correct, I think we can settle the RC town/scum question.

Results?

Wait a sec. Gotta PM the mod.

Reasons and results?

UNVOTE: LMP until the decision to Mass-claim or not is made.

So far I see 4 supports (NoPoint, Red, Shotty and myself) and one objection (mykonian). With 9 players alive I suggest 5 going either way should decide the course of action.

MOD – As usual I will be V/LA from 4pm EDT until Monday for regular family weekend duties.

This is basically my reasons for calling for the mass claim. And don't leave me off the support list, I definitely support it.

The results was the issue of receiving the gun a day after D2 had started. I wasn't sure if I could reveal timing of communications, and I can as long as I'm vague (and don't use timestamps).

mykonian is looking desperate. What is up with the demanding carapuce to vote dana? I think we should freeze voting until we've decided what we're doing re:massclaim.

Unvote

I would prefer waiting with answering your question untill Carapuce answers me. I have an explanation which I would have given then anyway.

If we are going to claim, I'm going to be against popcorn-style. I think the order should be determined by someone town: MoI, RC and LMP.

Seen what is going on, I think only the likely targets should claim. Sadly, I;m on that list now too, because I sound "desperate". I'm in no danger, and what you hear is annoyance. We have several people having good reads, and we are talking about

massclaim

. Just let the players claim who are in danger if you fear PR's are going to be hit. Seriously, people, get your priorities straight.

[Carapuce]

Hi.

I have not read the game yet but wanted to say hi.

Looking at the game I see a hidden mechanic. The kill passing thing acts as a pseudo cop. If a mafia gets the kill, they have to give it to a town, that means that town is cleared as town.

Also I bet that it is two mafia. If it was three mafia the game can end on second night which is something I see smaller games ignore at almost all cost.

I will try and read right now.

How did the first person with a kill get chosen?

[Carapuce]

Yo.

I decided to stop reading at where LMP claimed miller due to also haven read this page and realized things need to be told to people to prevent idiocracy from occuring.

A massclaim sounds like a delightfully horrible idea. A best case scenario stemming from massclaim is that we get all vanilla claims. Even then what happens? We lynch the miller claim because we assume mountainous? What is we get claims? Then what? The merit of a massclaim here rests on the assumption that this is infact a mountainous setup. This means that everyone voting LMP must think this is a mountainous setup. I am not fully acclimated to this game but I would bet my bottom dollar that anyone voting LMP who disagrees with this being mountainous is a mafia.

So open question to anyone who is voting LMP: Do you think this is mountainous? What happens if we massclaim and get a few role claims that are not vanilla?

If I had to make a bet, this is a 10 town 2 mafia setup, but it is not mountainous. If it was 9 town 3 mafia, game can be over very fast with two town lynches and one or two town vig failures. I put money against the mod allowing the game to end this fast, that is an extreme reward for mafia playing well. I personally think that mafia should be able to win on (1/4)(players)=day at the quickest, almost all people I have met agree with me on that.

Basically, massclaim is just a dumb move here. The only reason that someone should support a massclaim is if they think LMP is scum if all vanilla claims occur, but would not want to lynch him if other claims happen. If they would still support the lynch with other claims, asking for a massclaim is a mafia move because you want to out information when it does not change your course of action.

From what I read I think scorpion is the mafia.

If everyone can please say why their top pick for mafia is mafia in their next post in under 100 words but more then 50 I would be happy. It is smart to do this every few days even with new people not playing so lets go ahead and get on that.

[nopointinactingup]

@Carapuce:
1> I'm not a scorpion ( or no longer )
2> I voted LMP not because I thought the Set-Up was mountainous. Mind rereading my post?

My mafia picks are LMP, YOU and ANTI, though your post is looking better. I will not make you happy.

[mykonian]

@ Carapuce I asked you a simple question. To join the danawagon or give your reasons why you think you shouldn't vote dana. I'd like an answer.

[danakillsu]

I'm very confused at this point, so I am going to lay out all the information I have and let you decide what to do with it. I am a TRACKER. Last night I tracked RC. He did indeed target Jack. The only problem was...HE DID NOT TARGET LMP!
I PMd the mod, who told me that the giving of the vig ability if it was successful (don't know exactly what that means) would show up in my tracking results. So here's what I am thinking. I am thinking HC was the real person to have the vig ability last night, and that's why we haven't gotten a CC, or maybe the real vig doesn't feel they can prove that they really had it. However it happened, though, I'm convinced RC did not have the vig ability, but is actually scum. Thoughts?

unvote vote:RedCoyote

[mykonian]

I'm very confused at this point, so I am going to lay out all the information I have and let you decide what to do with it. I am a TRACKER. Last night I tracked RC. He did indeed target Jack. The only problem was...HE DID NOT TARGET LMP!
I PMd the mod, who told me that the giving of the vig ability if it was successful (don't know exactly what that means) would show up in my tracking results. So here's what I am thinking. I am thinking HC was the real person to have the vig ability last night, and that's why we haven't gotten a CC, or maybe the real vig doesn't feel they can prove that they really had it. However it happened, though, I'm convinced RC did not have the vig ability, but is actually scum. Thoughts?

unvote vote:RedCoyote

Since the vig is given away after the night, you cannot track it. RC told this already.

Dana, if this is a fake, you are getting better at it.

HC was the obvious scumkill. Jack a more protown one. This would further make certain that LMP and RC are a foolish scumteam, and I know for sure RC isn't such a player. In short, your theory is wrong.


Now we get to the point why this is a fakeclaim. Dana sets his fakeclaims up when he needs them, at least, he did so very recently. In this case, the tracker claim is set up with all the knowledge available (everybody could read who RC targeted, and that he gave the vig after the night ended -> after dana got his "result").

When there is a mention of massclaim, scumdana gets into survival mode and sets up his claim

(which follows the meta of danascum), by asking the mod a question. He makes sure

everybody notices this by posting that in thread

. The coup de grace is when he claims, fakes his "guilty" on RC, setting him up for his first reasoned vote in the game.

basically, this all screams

fakeclaim

. Believe me, I know how a fakeclaim is formed (check my scummy), and this is one.

[RedCoyote]

Haha, oh wow. dana, you just made this incredibly easy for me. Not only do both me and LynchMePls agree that he has the Vig power, no one else has countered

either

of us. You think, with how slow this game has been moving, that's just a coincidence? Worse still, you had voted me previously and unvoted... your play for this entire day is nothing if it isn't unconfident.

Hell, I'd be more convinced if you told me you had a guilty result on me yesterday rather than today! At least you had some passion about attacking me yesterday, even if it was completely misguided.

This lynch is easy as pie now, and I totally regret not pushing harder for you to be the first lynch of this game. I was never really comfortable with your play at all. I shot Jack over some freak claim he made and voted David because I second guessed my ability to read you.

Unvote

;

vote: danakillsu

LynchMePls, shoot Antihero. I don't mind taking control of the shot again, and I certainly don't think it's a bad idea. mykonian is absolutely right on both accounts.

[RedCoyote]

Additionally, I don't believe dana. We can get into the discussion of there being a Miller + Tracker, assuming you believe both claims, which doesn't add up. We can also look back over dana's posts and not really get a Tracker vibe at all. Thirdly, it really is just a horrible time to claim. If dana was really concerned about me not visiting LynchMePls, he would've brought it up earlier. I claimed that I had the power right when the day started, there was absolutely no reason to believe I would've given it to Jack. I don't think I was supportive at Jack at all this game.

Nothing adds up about this at all.