Open 242 - Friends and Enemies Mafia (Over!)

[Haylen]

Me and CSL are not scum. I am 100% sure it's Jahudo and BM.

[gandalf5166]

*sigh of relief*

[CSL]

W00T! 2 scum down, Jahudo is next!

[Socrates]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

Battle Mage (3)- CSL, Haylen, gandalf

Haylen (2) - Jahudo, Battle Mage

With 5 alive it is 3 to lynch.

Battle mage has been lynched. He was a

mafia goon

.

It is now Night 5. Night actions are due 72 hours from this post, Thursday, September 30, at whatever time it is right now where you are.

[Socrates]

Gandalf has been killed. He was a

Mason

.

With 3 alive, it is 2 to lynch. Deadline is 14 days from this post, October 12, at whatever time it is right now where you are.

[Jahudo]

CSL I know what it looks like, but I'm not scum.

She probably didn't kill you because you got replaced. Otherwise maybe she would have so you couldn't read her. At least we know why Haylen kept BM around.

Haylen buddied to you like BM buddied to me. We were only able to see the other as scum, which worked to their advantage so they did their best not to disturb it.
Haylen has done some good bussing in this game, but not good enough:

I also note the major defending of Zwets that BM is doing. I think that if one of them is town, then the other has to be two and if one of them is scum then the other must be.

If she really believed that, she wouldn't have gone after BM after zwet flipped town.

She had no reason to suspect BM other than by process of elimination, which doesn't work if she is the scum.

Guys, I can pretty much prove that Battle Mage is one of the last two scum.

After CSL voted for him, nobody quick hammered.

Doesn't count if you are the scum!

Vote: Haylen

[Jahudo]

So please read her again. Tell me what alignment she looks like, if you say you can read her well.

[gandalf5166]

BAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Finally I got killed lol.

[CSL]

Both of you. I want cases. This day will last 2-3 RL days.

Jahudo, I'm more tempted to vote you, as of this post.

[Haylen]

Give me some time, please, CSL. Uni is starting today and I'm dreading it. Will get a write up posted tomorrow.

[Haylen]

Jahudo, I occassionally get excellent gut reads - it's a pity I don't use my gut all the time, something stops me. If you want evidence of me having excellent gut reads, I can show you a game where I caught the entire scumteam by Page 4 and other games too. That's where my BM read came from during the game. I was trying to use logic one day but got forced to use my gut the next because the feeling was way too strong.

Also, there has never been a case on mafiascum or any other site where I have buddied somebody as scum. It's actually one of my town tactics, congratulations, you've caught me as town? *shakeshead*

Lol, as I said, I take pride from getting BM lynched when I'm scum or town. I would NK Battle Mage as scum because he can read me well, another reason why I can't night kill him is because of my emotional attachment to him, we've known each other since we were kids.

Also, me not killing CSL because he got replaced is a ridiculous idea. From what I can remember of Afa, he's a really good player and would have been number one on my scum-hitlist. Next thing we know, Jahudo will be suggesting me have a doc in the game.

Yes, I know that's all WIFOM, but if you look at Jahudo's "case" on me, you will be that I have been backed into a corner where the only way to answer the questions is by resorting to WIFOM.

No, this wasn't my case.

[Jahudo]

My case is that Haylen's votes have made no sense and only scum would have her thought process.

And from what I can see, Haylen has no case on me other than her saying she is town. She has not looked into my ISO, or even BM's ISO back then, to say that our actions were scummy.

if you look at Jahudo's "case" on me, you will be that I have been backed into a corner where the only way to answer the questions is by resorting to WIFOM.

False. I have tried to get you to explain your actions and you have not. Since I never got a reason for why you voted SSBF that made sense, I kept believing you were scum.

RECAP: SSBF and Zwet were even in the vote count. Haylen's ISO shows she preferred Zwet. She instead picks SSBF based on nothing she has ever been able to articulate. The only explanation is bus.

--------

That's where my BM read came from during the game. I was trying to use logic one day but got forced to use my gut the next because the feeling was way too strong.

So there is no physical evidence to explain why you went from BM-town to, by process of elimination your other gut reads supplant him? Not big surprise.

RECAP: Haylen argues that CSL is confirmed town when I did not quickhammer BM. This has burden of proof fallacy written all over it, because it relies on her alignment. She has not proven her alignment to us. What has she done that is town? We've both lynched scum. She has not scumhunted; just make jokes in the early stage and use gut reads in the later stage. Her activity is not an issue for me, but her lack of contribution when she was active is a problem.

[CSL]

Haylen, I claim hammer. Vote Jahudo if you think he's scum, or I will vote you.

[Haylen]

|Vote Jahudo

CSL's confirmed town, anyway.

[Haylen]

Also Jahudo, you obv didn't read my post properly because i said i was making a case against you. So suck that one.

[Jahudo]

I was referring to how you confirmed me and BM as scumteam, CSL as town without a case. Yes, you were allowed to argue process of elimination but that means nothing to us.

[CSL]

I'm suddenly hit with a strong deja vu here.

In your next post, give me reasons why you should not be lynched.

Any post with a reason like: "Because the other is scum" will get you lynched immediately.

Logical reasons. Gut dies here.

[Haylen]

just make jokes in the early stage and use gut reads in the later stage.

Sounds like my previous 50 games, tbh. They're null tells. But you accept that my voting on BM was gut though and to me

that is a scumslip

because the only way you could accept it's a gut read is if I was town which would make you the scum. What you've basically done is say that I'm town, CSL is confirmed town, meaning you're scum.

False. I have tried to get you to explain your actions and you have not. Since I never got a reason for why you voted SSBF that made sense, I kept believing you were scum.

Yes, except the only answers I can give a WIFOM and I believe you knew that when you asked them. My reasoning for voting SSBF makes perfect sense and actually, you don't believe I'm scum because you just accepted my gut explanation of believing BM to be mafia.

RECAP: SSBF and Zwet were even in the vote count. Haylen's ISO shows she preferred Zwet. She instead picks SSBF based on nothing she has ever been able to articulate.

Stop backtracking. Just now, you said that my reasoning didn't make sense, not that I haven't explained it.

-------

* In his first post, Jahudo tried to order a quicklynch on Zwet who we now know to be town. He, BM and Zwet were the most experienced players in the game, it only makes sense that Jahudo and Battle Mage would want him gone first. SCUMMY

* His second post is an obvious distancing tactic with BM. Reading it shows that they have some sort of 'relationship' mainly due to the unnecessary lymerick. SCUMMY

* He backs of the BM wagon very easily after he claimed, reading back, it seems very fake and as though he didn't want him to be lynched anyway especially after saying that BM was trying to defuse his wagon with a joke. It's also pretty scummy that he is advocating with-holding information from the town when he says "how are we to know he didn't have a reason but chose not to give it up front." If Jahudo was town, he wouldn't have to ask that question and it would have been an immediate FoS. It isn't the fact that BM did this, it's the fact the Jahudo defended it that is scummy. SCUMMY

* He decides to lurker hunt rather than use the information we already had at the time. It seems as though he was only trying to sow the seeds of doubt rather than actually try to scumhunt because out of nowhere he suddenly decides to lurker hunt. SCUMMY

* He seems to take meta into account with Zwets posting, but is hypocritical when it comes to mine and he seems to not accept that my self-vote, when he says this:

@DarkLight: Why did you unvote Haylen? Are you accepting that the self-vote is null?

Yet, he never asks me directly about my self-voting. He seems to disapprove of it indirectly whilst approving of Zwet. I think he thought he could use it later in the game to make a bogus case against me. SCUMMY

* He didn't seem overly worried about the masons claiming so early. He was basically, like, 'oh well...moving on', he then goes on to ask somebody why Gandalf was scummy. This indicates that he still thought he might be able to get a lynch on him despite him being confirmed mason. Why would town want a PR lynched? SCUMMY

It also doesn't make sense that I would say that one of SSBF and BM had to be scum and then confirm Battle Mage as scum later on in the game when he was not under any pressure. It's a stupid idea.

* He makes a big thing of me calling Zwet out on what I believed was Zwet making an empty promise. I don't understand why someone would self-hammer as town and if he had self-hammered as scum then that would have meant that we only had another left to find. Obviously this was so that he could shroud doubt on me later. SCUMMY

Seriously, the only way my changing of votes from Zwet to SSBF could be attributed to me being scum is if I was bussing Zwet and as we know this can't be true because Zwet flipped town. I knew that the other one would be lynched the next day and I believed they were both scummy hence why I didn't care which of them got lynched on which day. The SSBF wagon just seemed more popular and as a townie all I have is my vote to obtain a lynch. If Jahudo is against me using me vote to obtain a lynch then that is ridiculous. SCUMMY

Jahudo, did it ever occur to you that SSBF might have been buddying up to Mole, hence why he wasn't put in his scum category? I doubt it because you're trying to twist every little thing to make it look like me, BM an SSBF had a connection when I had no connection with any of them. Why not presume that Mole was the scum because he was let off easily? SCUMMY

Why would Haylen-scum, and only Haylen, find BM or CSL more of a threat to her than SSSS or yabbaguy?

This seems like annoyed scum wondering why his buddy is practically clearing someone who he wants lynched.

He seems to think that my votes have made no sense but he only is bringing it up now. If he replies to this an says that he only meant the SSBD vote, then I have already explained that and he's strawmanning but saying it was more than one time. SCUMMY

Not to mention that the only plausible scumteams to me were Jahudo/BM because Jahudo wouldn't hammer BM and CSL/Me because CSL didn't hammer me but we already know that the last one cannot be true. Either of us could have quicklynched BM if we were scum and none of us did that means that Jahudo HAS to be scum. Last time I checked players don't intentionally get their scumbuddies lynched by confirming them so blatantly as scum, thus I cannot be scum either. So that leaves Jahudo.

I'll probably find some more damning evidence when I go and analyse vote counts.

[Haylen]

I'm suddenly hit with a strong deja vu here.

In your next post, give me reasons why you should not be lynched.

Any post with a reason like: "Because the other is scum" will get you lynched immediately.

Logical reasons. Gut dies here.

How are we meant to do this?

Ok.

* The "case" against me is ridiculous. It looks like the only thing that Jahudo has on me is his lack of understanding of my switching vote which appears to be strawmanned. There is NOTHING on me.

* No, I haven't been active, but I have done my damn best to answer every question put forward to me and ask a few aswell and do a bit of analysis. My last post is extremely important.

* I haven't made any scumslips.

* CSL, check my meta. Those little subtle things that are impossible for any player to change. You know this. Come on, just look for them!

* I confirmed a player as scum, they got lynched and flipped scum. I helped lynch the other guy, too. Again, check my meta, I HATE bussing and wont do it unless completely necessary. There is no case in my MS history that shows any sort of similar behaviour here that I have had as scum. This is nothing like that Newbie game we were scum together in.

* I derailed my own wagon by confirming Battle Mage as scum. I have "connections" with SSBF and BM, getting the guy with no connections lynched doesn't make sense as scum behaviour in any game, it is NOT playing to your win condition.

[CSL]

Jahudo, you have one post to convince me. And, if you're town, you will convince me. Out with it.

Remember, ONE post.

[Jahudo]

The facts speak for themselves.

Here is a lie:

But you accept that my voting on BM was gut though and to me

that is a scumslip

because the only way you could accept it's a gut read is if I was town which would make you the scum. What you've basically done is say that I'm town, CSL is confirmed town, meaning you're scum.

Because you just told me your vote was gut!

Right here:

I was trying to use logic one day but got forced to use my gut the next because the feeling was way too strong.

--------

She calls this scummy but she did it too:

* He decides to lurker hunt rather than use the information we already had at the time. It seems as though he was only trying to sow the seeds of doubt rather than actually try to scumhunt because out of nowhere he suddenly decides to lurker hunt. SCUMMY

Um, you were lurker hunting shotty. Its a null tell.

She is confusing me with someone else here:

* He seems to take meta into account with Zwets posting, but is hypocritical when it comes to mine and he seems to not accept that my self-vote,

I never had a problem with your self-vote, and I only asked Darklight about it because he was the one that did and it became clear to the group you did it alot. How is this a scumtell on me?

This is a lie:

* He didn't seem overly worried about the masons claiming so early. He was basically, like, 'oh well...moving on', he then goes on to ask somebody why Gandalf was scummy. This indicates that he still thought he might be able to get a lynch on him despite him being confirmed mason. Why would town want a PR lynched? SCUMMY

I said they were off-limits and asked everyone to unvote. That's the exact opposite of thinking they still could be lynched. Liar.

Misrep here:

I don't understand why someone would self-hammer as town and if he had self-hammered as scum then that would have meant that we only had another left to find. Obviously this was so that he could shroud doubt on me later. SCUMMY

Misrepresentation here. You voted because you didn’t think he’d hammer. I pointed out that he had already tried to hammer. You didn’t care.

Another lie here:

Jahudo, did it ever occur to you that SSBF might have been buddying up to Mole, hence why he wasn't put in his scum category? I doubt it because you're trying to twist every little thing to make it look like me, BM an SSBF had a connection when I had no connection with any of them. Why not presume that Mole was the scum because he was let off easily? SCUMMY

Fail. If you have been reading the thread, you would know that I was trying to decide whether SSBF was buddying to mole or distancing from you.

[CSL]

I'm suddenly hit with a strong deja vu here.

In your next post, give me reasons why you should not be lynched.

Any post with a reason like: "Because the other is scum" will get you lynched immediately.

Logical reasons. Gut dies here.

Did you do this, Jahudo?

If not, you're finished.

Yes/No answer. Anything else will get you lynched.

[CSL]

With the stuff Haylen presented, plus her town meta matches this perfectly, I'm ending this game.

Vote: Jahudo

Game's over. Are you scum?

[Jahudo]

No, I was town. Was there anything I could have said to clear me?

Anyway, good job scumteam. I wonder how much the N0 mason kill and early mason claim gave you confidence to distance/bus. I'm guessing it allowed you to play a little outside your comfort zone at least, Haylen.

[Socrates]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

Jahudo (2)- CSL, Haylen

Haylen (1) - Jahudo

With 3 alive it is 2 to lynch.

Jahudo has been lynched. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

CSL,

Vanilla Townie

has been endgamed!

Haylen,

Mafia

, Survived!

The scum team, Haylen, Battlemage, and Super Smash Bros. Fan win! Congradulations!

Mod comments to come later.