Newbie 1012 - Game over

[Excedrin]

Vote Count

raymondkurayami (3): nameloc1986, Rockerboo, bhavitgoyal
bhavitgoyal (3): silverbullet999, Dickov, Enigma
Dickov (1): Shadow Dancer
Rockerboo (1): andrew94

not voting: raymondkurayami
alive: 9 majority: 5
D1 Deadline: AD 2010-10-05 04:06:00.000 PM (Tue) Pacific Daylight Time

[nameloc1986]

@raymond: bhavit is right, though, you've been rather diffident with your opinion so far. There's quite some stuff going on. What is your opinion about andrew and Dickov, for example? Who would be your top suspect right now? Whom would you vote, whom, if any one, would you be willing to lynch?

I too want to know this! Raymond seems to be lurking. It could be that he's busy, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I agree with Enigma. We're confusing newbie mistakes with scumtell more often than not. Too many people are tunneling and bickering back and forth with each other. Which of course only leads to more bickering and fussing. I myself am only getting more confused by a lot of this. Remember this is a NEWBIE thread!

Am I suspicious that Enigma called attention to the SE/IC players? Yes. He did have a good reason for it, but I would imagine scum would use good reasoning to hide behind.

If Dickov was scum, I'm not entirely sure he would be getting worked up like this. He's striking me even more now as newbie townie. I could be reading into him wrong, but that how it at least seems to me.

Bhavit you had some good ideas for raymond but I can't help the feeling that you still jumping the gun to vote for him. I not convinced that

your

reasoning is strong enough to put him at L-1. Sure its better than hammering, but even scum more likely wouldn't risk hammering.

[nameloc1986]

Edit: Nevermind I'm stupid, bhavit did not put him at L-1!

But I'm still not convinced of his vote...

[Dickov]

You know you are making bad arguments and still bloat them out - maybe because you consider fake activity a good town tell.
And also alleged self-critique might spare you one vote or another - or you might have thought so.

I don't get what you're trying to fish at here. The initial argument you stated was that I was at fault for

anticipating the ideas of others

. Do you honestly

just speak your mind

? Notice that I did (regarding why I L1-ed Silver) and I was immediately faulted for WIFOMing and trying to hide behind the newb card. When I insure myself against potential misreads it's scumlike. All I can say is "Bah".

You OMGUS vote silver to L-1.
You OMGUS vote Enigma.
You threaten to OMGUS vote any one who votes you.
You perceive my vote as OMGUS (or at least pretend - i.e. lie about it - to).
All in all you seem to perceive votes mainly for their OMGUS quality and as means to discurage others.

a) No solid argument for this, I already explained myself and was told not to hide behind newb card
b) I OMGUSed voted for Enigma at a relatively early point in the game

(a little beyond RVS

) when I had learned not to L-1 others. I wouldn't think it would return to haunt me.
c) Self-defence mechanism. And look at the vote count. Are you voted for by me? (Not yet at least)
d) A perception of OMGUS or a penchant for anticipating the intent of others? It's only natural to think that whoever attacks you is scum because I know who I am.
e) If you looked at who I voted for and the

manner

in which that individual is voted for, in what way is that application of the ideals of OMGUS?

You didn't reference the wiki granted, but your staunch wording of certain phrases appears in many of the wiki articles I have read (maybe paraphrased)

This is not the first time that you explicitely perceive votes mainly as a means to discurage other people's voting.

This is not a town mindset

.

Calling out a newb for asking the mod unnecessary questions

is not scum hunting

, it's an attempt in newb framing. A very clumsy attempt, though.

The mere aim od surviving

does in no way justify any means

(unless you are asurvivor - no, there are none in this game...).

Notice italicized words. While you don't reference the wiki, you leave your phrasing in the absolute. This suggests to me that you may be abusing your position as an IC, thinking that others follow your gospel word by virtue of your experience. I don't like how you at times act like the protective IC, governing the interests of newbies yet you at times also lay down the law on arguably newbie mistakes stating that you do not accept such and such. It's not that I disagree completely with what you say, it's that your form and temperament seems to fluctuate just as mine does.

Intelligent sounding jibe - ad Hominem and just as bad as Ad absurdum

Some plain facts for

you

Mafia is a game - it's a game essentially. You don't blame a basketball player for trying a shot himself instead of passing. People play a game for different reasons. As long as I fulfil my WINCON, it doesn't matter to me HOW I fulfil it. Another analogy; Survivor TV series, some play the good guy, some play the bad.
Stating the obvious of mafia does not in any way address my point. Yes it's a game, yes my intent is to track down scum and yes mafia is a team game. How does it in any way affect how I DISLIKE dying?

Regarding Raymond's waggon, you just cherry picked what you liked from my statement and moulded it in a way that villainized me. Sure it sounds bad when Shadow Dancer's big bad italized words appear in front of everyone yet you conveniently ignored the fact that I

DID

defend him by citing the weakness of Enigma's "scumslip". To each his own I suppose.

Might be rushed, but I'm headed out for a bit. Will elaborate later.

[Shadow Dancer]

More gibberish...

@Dickov:
If you want to defend yourself, you should at least make sure that you can bring something up that can hold ground.
That seems to me the main problem with you, any way. You seem not to think through what you are posting before hitting the "submit" button.
Please, before produce another pointless WOT, think about what you really want to say and try to make a concise point.
Debunking all the logical fallacies and hypocrisy in your posts becomes dreary, so I'll refrain from doing s again...

[Shadow Dancer]

Upon rereafing Enigma I realize that I really cannot read him one way or the other, all I can tell

for sure

from his posts is that he is SE. His posts abound in helpfulness. But not much else. His early votes where, well, early votes. And his newest vote for bhavit is not justified at all (other than "let's see how reacts", which is a pretty bad reason to put him at L-1, especially in a newbie game).

@Enigma: Could you maybe give us an analysis on every player or something like that?

[andrew94]

-Andrew... the new VI

Wow... simply wow... congrats with your response I gladly give you the title you seek, you are now a VI in my book (or an SI...) Just keep that I around in either case.

whats si

i dont know what you mean, if my suspisions change, than my suspision is no longer on A. therefore the person is suspect is not A, so his name changes

Right... but the point was that name's didn't.. as he stated... he simple said other which filled us in and whomever else he mentioned in the latter post.

look im suspecting the afk guy now, if i stop suspecting him and start suspecting name you, name of suspected guy = silver, NOT the afk guy)

use of meta is fail

This is where you win the title. How the Fuck (sorry if anyone is offended?) do you get off that I'm magically using meta now?! I state a case in one of my own games where the person said Think Carefully after one of his questions and immediately I was suspicious of this and called him out to be scum... which he was. Something as Little as saying Think Carefully added him out. My point being small slips can help amazingly in determining scum. This is not using meta... using meta would be me saying well normally when i'm town.. i scumhunt and i've been scumhunting so i'm town Or Name is normally quiet when he's town... he's trying to act like a leader therefore he must be scum. I DID NOT AT ALL USE META. Learn definitions before using them.

u said first game he did this, so hes scum. your now saying about this game? =meta

fluff

Called sarcasm... this isn't just fluff as the post contains different things... again the dictionary is your friend.

harm= makes it seem like your actually doing something when your not

So apparently I shouldn't ask anything at all and stay quiet not looking for scum slips? Or should I have pushed name apparently on what I don't consider to be a scum slip but was just exploring to see if it was one?

maybe if you stop hyperboling

Could you quote where I keep doing this? I really don't think you know the definition of it. Also is this supposed hyperbole now not scummy? Also my hyperbole is somehow preventing you from pursuing your suspects? How's that work?

you poking your head in= not wanting to be the master guy = scum trying to hide, just coming in, say something go out.

No it's called not being reckless, or overconfident... If I was I'd call him out as scum... but as it stands I'm uncertain so I poke him and see how he reacts.. and then continue from there. What am I hiding in poking name with a simple question?

UR more likely pretending to be uncertain

maybe depends

So you would defend for him? Nice... that's a truly pro-town move! (SARCASM)

no more questions

Fluff (oh my god i'm like you!)

dude, stop pretending you are actually DOING something by asking me back and forth questions.

[andrew94]

and dickov, if you cant be a team player, go play sk

[andrew94]

it is a team game because your vote alone wont do jack shit

[silverbullet999]

I have just read and am responding to andrews post.. it's super late.. i'll read those other posts sometime tommorow.. or later today really.

whats si

Take vi... take out village... and add scum...

look im suspecting the afk guy now, if i stop suspecting him and start suspecting name you, name of suspected guy = silver, NOT the afk guy)

False name was suspicious of me and others from this post

Everyone knows that raymond is my (and a few others top suspect).

(where I am represented by others)
and here

I suspect other people like YOU, silver and Enigma but I don't want to say anything for certain yet.

(where I am explicitly stated)
You REALLY need to start reading the posts better bud.

u said first game he did this, so hes scum. your now saying about this game? =meta

Who did i say did that first game? Name? No sorry sir you are wrong... Nobody Special said think carefully in my first game and he was scum. I'm bringing this up because small things DO matter. I'm not using any sort of meta to indicate that someone is or is not scum!

UR more likely pretending to be uncertain

Yes this makes perfect sense... (SARCASM)

Also like how you decide to not quote where i've been using hyperbole and the questions posted after that. And the questions about me asking questions.

[Enigma]

Upon rereafing Enigma I realize that I really cannot read him one way or the other, all I can tell

for sure

from his posts is that he is SE. His posts abound in helpfulness. But not much else. His early votes where, well, early votes. And his newest vote for bhavit is not justified at all (other than "let's see how reacts", which is a pretty bad reason to put him at L-1, especially in a newbie game).
@Enigma: Could you maybe give us an analysis on every player or something like that?

Firstly, Bhavit is not at L-1.
Secondly, I tried to present a read on you as well when I did silverbullet. I gave up because it was inconclusive, ie: like your read on me.

Now I actually want to comment on the andrew, silver, name discussion as well, but I will need to raincheck that until I have time.

I used the SE/IC to help support my argument. I know it really doesn't hold any weight but it might help shift the focus off everything else, which it has a bit really.
I posted the ISO on silver to achieve a few things,
Shift attention of the dickov and bhavit argument which is now becoming excessive and just plain confusing. Achieved!
See other's people reaction to a different case against someone I found slight scummy. Achieved!

Focusing on one argument won't ever give us a solid read, because reactions are different when scum are attacking town compared to when scum are defending/ignoring a case against their partner.
We can see who ignored the case and hope it disappears, we can see how silver responds (which I will address very soon), we can see who is eager to try a new wagon because they wanted an excuse to get off another wagon etc etc.

[andrew94]

what case?
i dont understand ur last paragraph

[Enigma]

My ISO of silver?

[andrew94]

no u said focusing on one arguement etc

[Shadow Dancer]

and dickov, if you cant be a team player, go play sk

Don't be so harsh, he is a newb, quite likely scum, and you aren't exactly gembreakingly brilliant either so far.

[Shadow Dancer]

@Andrew and silver: Please, use proper english and edit your posts in an apropriate way (p.e. not adding your comments

inside

quote tags). That would actually help both of

you

because right now the main problem seems to be that you tend talk to on cros-purposes.

[Shadow Dancer]

EBWOP: gembreakingly = gamebreakingly... lol

[Excedrin]

Vote Count

raymondkurayami (3): nameloc1986, Rockerboo, bhavitgoyal
bhavitgoyal (3): silverbullet999, Dickov, Enigma
Dickov (1): Shadow Dancer
Rockerboo (1): andrew94

not voting: raymondkurayami
alive: 9 majority: 5
D1 Deadline: AD 2010-10-05 04:06:00.000 PM (Tue) Pacific Daylight Time

[andrew94]

mod can u prod rockerboo

[silverbullet999]

@Andrew and silver: Please, use proper english and edit your posts in an apropriate way (p.e. not adding your comments inside quote tags). That would actually help both of you because right now the main problem seems to be that you tend talk to on cros-purposes.

I haven't added comments inside quote tags....
Not sure where me and andrew are talking on cross-purposes?
Proper english.. meaning your and you're?

[silverbullet999]

EBWOP:
-Enig

We can see who ignored the case and hope it disappears, we can see how silver responds (which I will address very soon), we can see who is eager to try a new wagon because they wanted an excuse to get off another wagon etc etc.

Politician promise... is not a fun promise...

-Andy
Can you point out my hyperbole posts please?

[andrew94]

the hyperbole i meant was that u made a huge case out of a small thing

ur reply however, interests me , u said u were merely pokeing ur head in, as i said that is mafia trying to rid himself of faults if a lynch does occur

[silverbullet999]

Trips...

Cause I missed this little gem

dude, stop pretending you are actually DOING something by asking me back and forth questions.

So questioning you.... is scummy?

Bhavits still up on my list... but VI or SI... you earn this for now...

VOTE: Andy the I

the hyperbole i meant was that u made a huge case out of a small thing

ur reply however, interests me , u said u were merely pokeing ur head in, as i said that is mafia trying to rid himself of faults if a lynch does occur

Quotes please.
Also again I'm assuming your saying I was making a case on name? If this is the case... why was my vote not on him? Where is this case that I made?
As for your second part about my reply... So my case... on name... was going to be so amazing... that I led the lynch of him... by asking him one question... and not voting him... and not stating any heavy suspicion of name at all. It's some advanced evil diabolical scum of the year plan?

[Shadow Dancer]

I haven't added comments inside quote tags....

Your "...|..." stuff isn't much better when it come to readability, though.

Not sure where me and andrew are talking on cross-purposes?

I have no itention to dissect every single of your posts to nit-pick on every possible misunderstanding, but for example you talk about name (i.e. nameloc1986) and andrew perceives something about "player names" and your reply does not point out his obvious misinterptretation, which is where that part of your quarrel turns into kind of an absurd white noise.

Proper english.. meaning your and you're?

I think I can live with

that

. I think that was directed more towards Andrew. I really cannot figure out what some of his sentences mean or refer to since they make - either logically or grammatically - no sense. With you it's more of formatting problem, I guess.

The bottom line is: Trying to figure out what your argument is all about alone gives me headaches and leaves me behind but confused.

[andrew94]

yes questioning me with stuff that just makes you seem to do something when your actually not do something is scummy.

hell, even by answering ur questions, i am scummy because it just makes me look like doing stuff as well.

so im not answering ur stuff

on other notes, u have obviously misunderstood me, u attacked someone (forgot name) for changing their suspicsions, whilst not actually voting him, therefore i commented that that seems to be mafia hiding behind shadows