Newbie 1012 - Game over

[Excedrin]

Vote Count

raymondkurayami (3): Enigma, bhavitgoyal, nameloc1986
bhavitgoyal (2): silverbullet999, Dickov
Dickov (1): Shadow Dancer

not voting: raymondkurayami, andrew94, Rockerboo
alive: 9 majority: 5
D1 Deadline: AD 2010-10-05 04:06:00.000 PM (Tue) Pacific Daylight Time

[andrew94]

2 questions:

1. When is the deadline for Day 1?

2. I'm confused about rule #6 under Voting,...... . When you say 1/2 the original number of votes do you mean like (this round i.e.) 4 will required? And in case of a tie, wouldn't they both have the same number of votes (so they both have the required number) ??

How long does day rounds on here usually last?

andrew, I assume this was the P5&6 you were talking about? If so, I fail to see how this makes me anymore mafia than a newbie to this site/online mafia.

bro, all you explained was the fact that you like to be leadership role.
you have not explained your seemingly harmless questions. you have shown yourself to be a rreasonable scumhunter with a good grfasp ontactics, yet you do not know deadline and votes. this just screams out to be a scum asking 'yo tell me when i can hammer' or 'yo i cant wait to kill at night'

[andrew94]

-Aimless Andrew

why r u drawing attention to such a small matter. seems like scum hyperbole

Well dearest me.
Small matter?
Well sorry I thought we were playing mafia where slips might be left in the smallest of things.
Like someone saying Think Carefully after asking a question.
So what game are we actually playing again?
Where analysis doesn't mean anything? Where small details don't matter?
Bit defensive of your buddy name eh?
What makes you feel it's a small detail?
Answer these questions please.

people's suspision change
i dont think it was a mafia slip, i think it was more of a too much suspisions guy
what do u mean
we are playing mafia
crap analysis
if you see, i am actually holding suspision to him as well. i am now also suspicious towards you
its not the fact that its a small detail, its the fact that you are making a big shit out of it and is basing almost your entire case on it.
if you have other stuff on him, put it on

i just answered them

[bhavitgoyal]

Hello ppl!!!

/confirm role

Anyway

I cant actually decide who to vote even after reading all 9 pages (+ a little skimming) but i am leaning toward raymondkurayami for some of his actions and bhavitgoyal for sticking on him like clue in one of the lower pages.

Anyway still dont know what to do so just gona watch ppl scumhunt till i find somthing...

Rockerboo, I personally dont like this type of behaviour.

I can just think you are a mafia who is waiting for other people to scumhunt and who is trying to stay behind the curtains.

[bhavitgoyal]

Andrew94, I think there is nothing suspicious when someone new to this forum asks about the deadline and when do rounds usually last.

[andrew94]

then do you think its suspicious when someone just follows another person's opinion?

[Enigma]

With two mafia against seven townsfolk, mafia would do well to remain low key; occasionally throw accusations here and there and generally thrive in the shadows while the Townsfolks begin the rape of each other in the name of "scumhunting". Even without intending to, Raymond has been accused of providing a "scumslip", I have been accused of bringing you to L-1 and Bhavit has yet to fully explain to me satisfactorily the inconsistency in his wagoning with Enigma. On the surface of it, all three of us are doing a good job of biting the bullet for the mafia.

Hench why lynch all lurkers is a necessary question which you have still yet to provide a satisfactory answer for.
I have yet to provide an answer for this question though, so I will now.
First it is important to differentiate between lurking, active lurking and v/la (busy or afk). In later games this can just be done with a simple meta check, however in newbie games we don't necessary have this luxury.
-Out of the 3 I listed, active lurkers need to be pressured and forced. Active lurking consists of posting but posting nothing of interest, doing no scum hunting, expressing no opinions and pretty much doing nothing but posting to avoid being prodded/replaced. This way scum stay out of the limelight which town bicker amongst themselves. Active lurking needs to be discouraged by voting and possibly being lynched. It is just anti town behavior and makes LYLO assessments even harder.
-Lurkers are people who don't post much. These guys also need to be pressured but one must be careful as to judging them as to whether they are scum hiding or just townies who are genuinely uninterested in the game. So if you are town and you cbf playing this game, do your team a favor and replace out. Else expect votes to start flying towards your directions.
-V/LA people are people who can't post due to RL constraints. This doesn't mean they are scum. Actually, all those people who are attacking these people are more likely to be scum trying to divert attention away from themselves.

In other news I agree with #206 by Dickov.
Bhavit's #208 response I dislike.
I changed votes randomly in early game because it was RVS. It should have been apparent from my poor reasoning behind my votes. It should be apparent that I'm careful with my vote when we are out of RVS as shown by my play. You disregard your act as suspicious because it was RVS yet you try and attack me for being suss because of my RVS behavior? Pot kettle back anyone?
Your excuse of never rereading things is a poor effort to cover up why you didn't notice the scum slip. You should be reading the thread multiple times if you are serious about scum hunting. It was obvious, enough said.


And reading through the petty arguements between Dickov and Bhavit is making my hangover worse.

Also, regarding active lurking: Rockerboo is a prime example of that. But his day will come, for now...

Unvote

VOTE: BhavitGoyal
Let's see how you really react at when you approach this L-1 situation.

[bhavitgoyal]

Well, if you want to see how I react then see.

But now I am going to

Unvote

and

Vote:Rockerboo

for waiting for other people to scumhunt and not putting his efforts in.

[nameloc1986]

2 questions:

1. When is the deadline for Day 1?

2. I'm confused about rule #6 under Voting,...... . When you say 1/2 the original number of votes do you mean like (this round i.e.) 4 will required? And in case of a tie, wouldn't they both have the same number of votes (so they both have the required number) ??

How long does day rounds on here usually last?

andrew, I assume this was the P5&6 you were talking about? If so, I fail to see how this makes me anymore mafia than a newbie to this site/online mafia.

bro, all you explained was the fact that you like to be leadership role.
you have not explained your seemingly harmless questions. you have shown yourself to be a rreasonable scumhunter with a good grfasp ontactics, yet you do not know deadline and votes. this just screams out to be a scum asking 'yo tell me when i can hammer' or 'yo i cant wait to kill at night'

Didn't I just say that I am new to this site as well as online mafia? Why else would I ask these questions? And if I were scum, how would this benefit me as scum? I'm gonna ask this again, HOW IS THIS SCUMMISH BEHAVIOR? I just wanted to know when deadline was. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

Now wait a minute, didn't you just jump all over silver's back for pursuing "small" behavior? And whether or not this is "small" behavior, I DID explain myself, and you still keep pursuing it. If you're a townie, then you're definitely looking in all the wrong places.

[nameloc1986]

BTW, you may not have noticed, andrew, since you came in a little late, but the reason I asked question #1 (Enigma asked the same question) is because at this point it was not advertised by the mod what the deadline was. Enigma and I just wanted to know when we had to make a voting decision by.

[Dickov]

I'm going to V/LA for two days as I'm returning to England and it's a fifteen hour flight and another ten hours on the road travel.

I'm glad you decided to contribute your vote to something that I believe in but you're still just as suspicious as Bhavit and Shadow Dancer. Trying to bus your buddy after a long lur- absence?

I'm willing to give you and Shadow Dancer the benefit of the doubt or your "continued absence" through the game upon heat imposed on me and I'll see if you're willing to extend this courtesy to me.

And also, lol @ BhavitGoyal following the recommendation of (guess who!) again.
Also lol @BhavitGoyal again for "waiting for other people to scumhunt and not putting his efforts in." (I think I got knocked out by the irony.)

[silverbullet999]

-AnDee
(your quote though I answer the stuff)
people's suspision change, |Yes they do, but apparently name's didn't.

i dont think it was a mafia slip, i think it was more of a too much suspisions guy |Not sure what this means...

what do u mean |My first game (you can look it up in my wiki if you don't believe me) Nobody Special asked me a question and at the end of it he said Think Carefully. While this may mean nothing to you, this instantly set off alarms to me and I called him out as scum, with that being a minor threat like scum slip. Guess what? He was scum)

we are playing mafia |Oh good!

crap analysis |Crap analysis to poke into a potential scum slip ? (Granted I'll agree now that it's not... but where's the harm in asking?)

if you see, i am actually holding suspision to him as well. i am now also suspicious towards you | Ok... and Ok... though you should pursue your suspicion on me and name a bit more... Vs just stating it

its not the fact that its a small detail, its the fact that you are making a big shit out of it and is basing almost your entire case on it. | Hold up... case? I'm poking name to see if maybe it was a scum slip... and all of a sudden this is my whole case? Where did I vote name and shout to all that I Judge Silver have determined name to be scum? How also am I making a big shit out of it by just posting it once and asking about it? Me thinks someone is being a little over protective... I wonder why...

if you have other stuff on him, put it on | Told you before I was poking him... If I did have other stuff on him would you also refute it?

i just answered them |Good boy.. now answer these

[Excedrin]

Vote Count

raymondkurayami (1): nameloc1986
bhavitgoyal (3): silverbullet999, Dickov, Enigma
Dickov (1): Shadow Dancer
Rockerboo (1): bhavitgoyal

not voting: raymondkurayami, andrew94, Rockerboo
alive: 9 majority: 5
D1 Deadline: AD 2010-10-05 04:06:00.000 PM (Tue) Pacific Daylight Time

[nameloc1986]

I'd like to point out that Dickov and Enigma are waggoning on bhavit (even though they did express reasonings) and also waggoned on silver at the beginning of the game. Would the mafia risk being that obvious? Yes if they thought that people would think not. That's a little suspicious...

[Rockerboo]

OK have been reading doing stuff being busy and i finally have time to post:

Ok so still on bhavit for sticking on raymond and may i ask why you voted me?
I then changed my mind and said i would scum hunt and also for someone ppl i may be lurking but i have to say i am either reading, catching up or i am just stopping by quickly.....i am also a person that doesnt post much unless he has something new.

Leaning toward raymond too still for several reasons that i have already said.

Also i am leaning to andrew too for suspecting ppl cause they asked for the deadline....

For now

Vote:raymondkurayami

[Enigma]

I voted alot of people at the beginning of the game during RVS. Silver, Dickov, Bhavit, Raymond.
Does that mean everyone else who now votes for the same person I do now are a scum team with me?

Fail logic is fail.

[Shadow Dancer]

Far fetched reasoning surely, but you can't blame me for trying.

Actually - I can blame you. Openly telling it's all fluff does not make it less fluff. And that you realize it and still decide to post in nontheless evokes doubts about your motivation in me.
Anyway, I'll go a bit more into detail, because I still consider it likely that you just do not realize, how badly you're arguing.

I noticed the wolf straight away but I don't buy it.

Firstly, during the random voting stage, it's the tendency for players to try and weaken the justification for their voting as much as they can in order to reduce the level of attention on them. If it looks like they have an agenda on other players, people might question them instead.

You don't buy a nonsense reason because you'd expect a ... nonsense reason? What?

Your

vote however disclaimed its

randomness

in the random voting stage by virtue of you including further justification for your reason to vote "against an SE player" and further suspicion is cast when the OTHER SE player rides along your vote.
That is why I have shortlisted you

and

Enigma

along with Bhavit in my circle of terror. However, if either one of you can be cleared of suspicion in my mind, I will herald it as an anomaly and continue discussions without the idea that

both

of you are mafia.

Fact is: Newbs newb do scummy things, newbs slip. newbs often play very badly in their first game, wasn't different with me, for me as IC applying pressure on an SE first is the most reasonable thing to do. Both to show you newbs how to handle votes and pressure on you and whatever else evolves from that and to really put pressure on an SE early, because he is more unlikely to slip on his own on D1.
I do not say that is a particularly strong reason to vote, but definitely much better than your average RVS vote.
And silver by chance happened to be a juicy titbit with his avatar. Basically knew

he

'd be my RV after seeing it the first time.

So, yeah, I made a random vote, I even

had

a (non-nonsense) reason for it. What of all this seems scummy to you?
And now comes the the real bogus:

Some one else

placing a vote on the same person

after me

and conincidentally being an SE makes me more suspicious in some way? This is not a valid argument at all and will never be, simply because it completely defies any logic.

Regarding #59, all I can ask of you is that you don't apply the standard of a seasoned player to every player just because you are one. I genuinely did not at that point understand what my voting for silverbullet would result in and had I known, I wouldn't have done it.

Think about it, if I was indeed the mafia, would I intentionally draw so much attention to myself during the lynching stage when the chance of a mislych is 77.78%? The only justification for the action is an appeal to ignorance which you may choose to accept or ignore.

I do not accept neither "I am newb" nor WIFOM as valid arguments, sorry. Of course you are newb, of course you make mistakes, we all do. But I axpect from you to learn and to explain honestly why you made your mistakes.
Your answer looks evasive to me, which makes me think you may be scum and for that reason cannot come up with a genuine explanation.

Furthermore, keeping your vote on me after I have attacked you shows to me that you may be uncomfortable with the level of attention you're receiving from me (and I don't blame you) and it also shows that instead of using your vote to hunt mafia, you are instead using it as a defence (similar to my OMGUS voting initially) which shows perhaps that you may already know who the mafia is and why it would be

detrimental

to hunt them.

Ehhh... Yeah... Sure,

keeping

my vote on

you

automatically makes it OMGUS...
This is not the first time that you explicitely perceive votes mainly as a means to discurage other people's voting.

This

is not a town mindset.

[Shadow Dancer]

It's good though because currently because of an "imagined" scumslip, you're leading the lynch board. To me personally, I wouldn't go as far as to say you're not mafia, but you definitely don't deserve the fingers and fists of love from others because of your "scumslip".

@Dickov: I'll go into that scumslip thing later, just for now: You think he is not mafia, yet still you think that it is a good think he is the leading waggon (and thus distracting attantion away from you)? Opportunistic. Scum. Mindset.

[nameloc1986]

I voted alot of people at the beginning of the game during RVS. Silver, Dickov, Bhavit, Raymond.
Does that mean everyone else who now votes for the same person I do now are a scum team with me?

Fail logic is fail.

I never said you two were on a scum team. I just said there is something suspicious about the way you both waggoned on silver THEN on bhavit. It could mean both or one or none of you are scum. It's just something curious I pointed out.

[Shadow Dancer]

@Dickov With 9 players in the game there is a 33% chance that one of the mafia is one of y'all that has already been accused. It may not seem like much to go on right now, but it's ONLY day 2 (i think). We can always retract our vote. So I don't feel like we're taking a risk at all. We're just trying to provoke discussion. My vote still stands.

Wrong math. Actually it's 33% that one of the three is

one specific

mafia. Chances for at least one of them three being any scum is 58,333... %. (Just group players, you get Sum(6..8)/Sum(1..8) as solution)

[Shadow Dancer]

[...]
Does Mafia really need to do much more on day 1? From my basic understanding of the game, Mafia is more likely to be a active lurker (i.e. Enigma and Shadow Dancer) as opposed to an inactive one (lollero, Koreanwonderboy and yourself). You've unvoted me and I'm grateful for that, but who do you suspect most right now? Care to share?

I don't want to comment on all your stuff, though, you really need to work on your arguments...
However, I need to demand now: Please define the term "active lurker" and what specifically makes me one.

[Shadow Dancer]

Sorry, but I also have to point this out:

__

2 mafia

_ = 22.22% chance of being lynched as mafia =/= 33% as you mentioned.
9 townsfolk

Being lynched

as mafia (as opposed to

lynching mafia

).
I see almost every single one of your posts coming from a scum POV, focussed on not being suspected not being voted, not being lynched.
(Beware! rather retorical question coming now) I wonder where that comes from.

[Shadow Dancer]

Hehe... Enigma is also struggling to keep up with this game...

Somehow Dickov mada a jumpstart in scumhunting on p8... If I just had not that strong feeling of an underlying scum mentality in his earlier posts I'd give him the benefit of the doubt...

First let me begin with silver. He hides himself behind what I guess is an attempt at a humorous way with words, trying to be poetic in nature.

eeer... What? Poetic nature?

I'll do some ISO reading and stuff like that and then get a good night's sleep, hopefully that'll help me making my mind up about things until tomorrow.

[Shadow Dancer]

Oh, please, one thing: Do not post your own comments

inside

the quote tags. That is, if you want to make a point and me to realize it.

[Shadow Dancer]

I find most of andrew's reasoning rather horrible so far. And he is not a newb.
Calling out a newb for asking the mod unnecessary questions is not scum hunting, it's an attempt in newb framing. A very clumsy attempt, though.