Mini 1040 - Everyone's A Critic! [Game Over]

[danakillsu]

a)1
b)don't remember think he was VT
c)it's strange that he's switching votes so much

[LimMePls]

Scum
Lynchme (terrible end d1 case on me)

1) I do not concede it was terrible.
2) Town can't make bad cases? What about it in particular was scummy?

[XScorpion]

I see you dodging that question too LMP.

Dana, have you read any other games with shotty and seen how he behaves?

[kunkstar7]

:: VoteCount 2x1 ::

Antihero (0) -
MagnaofIllusion (0) -

RedCoyote (0) -

danakillsu (0) -

LynchMePls (0) -

XScorpion (0) -

Stef (2) -

mykonian, Antihero

drmyshottyizsik (1) -

Xscorpion

mykonian (2) -

danakillsu, drmyshottyizsik

Not Voting (4) -

MagnaofIllusion, RedCoyote, LynchMePls, Stef

With 9 Alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is October 9, 2010 7:00pm EST.

[RedCoyote]

RC, did you pass on the vig ability to Haschel?


Before you answer, think: scum might very well try to hunt the vig tonight.

I'd prefer not to answer this, mostly because I don't see how it would benefit the town from knowing that. Moreover, I'm inclined to agree with (I never thought I'd say this!) dana here. I'm not even really sure why you asked this. I mean, I get that it (the Vig pass) would concern you regardless of what alignment you are, but I don't think you should necessarily be as worried about it if you are town.

wifom about if the role still exists might benefit the town (though I'm of the opinion that it is better to know it).

What do you mean here? Didn't the Mod say that if the scum get the power it gets taken away the next day? I don't think the town can lose the power (unless they pass it to scum, in which case it's put back into the fold the following day).

---

I want everyone to tell me
a) how many games they've played with shotty
b) what roles he was in those games
c) what they think of him so far.

Go.

a) 3
b) town, on going, on going (this one)
c) He's probably in too many games. I don't think he takes the website very seriously. Either that or he's a child... or both.

---

I do not feel it's prudent to vote Stef before he can even check the thread to defend himself.

[mykonian]

@RC.

A clarification of Action Resolution: The passing of the Vigilante ability onto another player occurs last in the series. Therefore, a kill targeted at the owner of the ability on night start will successfully eliminate the ability.

this answers one question.

I asked this to check if there is still a pro-town role that might kill useless townies.

@Dana. RC's play has been protown, his kill was protown (Jack would otherwise have been a perfect mislynch target). Enough for me to assume based on his claim that he is town. I don't care what you do with the information you get, but I try to deduce something from it.

What part of my reasoning for my Stef vote is awful?

You claimed my vote was awful. I'd like to know why. Stef was the leading bandwagon yesterday

for a reason

, until Jack fakeclaimed. After that, Stef lurked out. In this game, time doesn't heal.

[mykonian]

Scum
Lynchme (terrible end d1 case on me)

1) I do not concede it was terrible.
2) Town can't make bad cases? What about it in particular was scummy?

You used a statement made in the RVS to prove that I was inconsistent at the end of day 1 !

That's not just a bad case. That is quoting out of context (you

knew

you took that statement from the first page), and by that forging a reason for your vote. There is nothing to

concede

.

Interesting how mykonian suddenly thinks Jack's play isn't Jack-town, but earlier in the thread he seemed to like Jack's play fine. The only thing I see different is that Jack is now calling mykonian scum.

So, I'd like one of two things from you:

A. Show me where my points against Jack are wrong and why Jack doesn't suck.
B. Make a case on me that isn't based on that OMGUS vote by me.

No. I'm not letting you manipulate me. You want to twist what you've done to make it look better, but in the end you have shown that your "reads" on people are purely tactical. You thought Jack was awesome earlier when he was agreeing with you, but the moment he started thinking you might be scum you decide that he is no longer obv-town and start calling him scum. You need lynching I think.

Oh ya, so you didn't say:

jack is town.

? I think you can take your condescension and pedantic "preaching" and shove it. I've got a fine grasp on the game, and I've read everyone's posts

The first post was a terrible vote, so I asked for his reasons. By saying that "he didn't want to be manipulated" he avoided to give his reasons. The last quote shows a quote from me, where I say that Jack is town. This was made halfway page 1, so at the start of the random voting stage. During the rest of the day, I have more then once posted that Jack would get my vote if he kept lurking and kept doing nothing, but LMP carefully avoids that evidence and only chooses to quote a "read" from me from the RVS.

Why? Because LMP doesn't care about the truth. He cares about his vote getting some backing, be that a good one or not.

unvote vote LMP

. Stef can come and defend himself later. Lets get some action here.

[mykonian]

Scum
Lynchme (terrible end d1 case on me)

1) I do not concede it was terrible.
2) Town can't make bad cases? What about it in particular was scummy?

You used a statement made in the RVS to prove that I was inconsistent at the end of day 1 !

That's not just a bad case. That is quoting out of context (you

knew

you took that statement from the first page), and by that forging a reason for your vote. There is nothing to

concede

.

Interesting how mykonian suddenly thinks Jack's play isn't Jack-town, but earlier in the thread he seemed to like Jack's play fine. The only thing I see different is that Jack is now calling mykonian scum.

So, I'd like one of two things from you:

A. Show me where my points against Jack are wrong and why Jack doesn't suck.
B. Make a case on me that isn't based on that OMGUS vote by me.

No. I'm not letting you manipulate me. You want to twist what you've done to make it look better, but in the end you have shown that your "reads" on people are purely tactical. You thought Jack was awesome earlier when he was agreeing with you, but the moment he started thinking you might be scum you decide that he is no longer obv-town and start calling him scum. You need lynching I think.

Oh ya, so you didn't say:

jack is town.

? I think you can take your condescension and pedantic "preaching" and shove it. I've got a fine grasp on the game, and I've read everyone's posts

The first post was a terrible vote, so I asked for his reasons. By saying that "he didn't want to be manipulated" he avoided to give his reasons. The last quote shows a quote from me, where I say that Jack is town. This was made halfway page 1, so at the start of the random voting stage. During the rest of the day, I have more then once posted that Jack would get my vote if he kept lurking and kept doing nothing, but LMP carefully avoids that evidence and only chooses to quote a "read" from me from the RVS.

Why? Because LMP doesn't care about the truth. He cares about his vote getting some backing, be that a good one or not.

unvote vote LMP

. Stef can come and defend himself later. Lets get some action here.

(and that is what I get for not previewing my posts :/)

[Stef]

Posting now because I've been prodded. I got no idea what jack's idea was... meh.

[mykonian]

I'm impressed. (bump for MoI)

[MagnaofIllusion]

I want everyone to tell me
a) how "many games they've played with shotty
b) what roles he was in those games
c) what they think of him so far.

A. Luckily zero before this one.
B. N/A
C. I’m most disconcerted that he’s a VI who is proud of that fact. I’d almost throw him into the Troll category based on a quick read-through of other games. Multiple instances of claiming Town PRs as a Vanilla Town is a clear indication of this to me.

XScorp

– I want you to answer your own questions. Go.

Jack is town, and he may be right when he said there are only 2 scum.

Jack’s position as Town has little to do with the credibility of his opinion on this manner. In a 12 person game I really can’t see this as being true unless we are in what is basically a Mountainous set-up (10 Town and 2 scum, all Vanilla) with only the passable Vig (which can go to either side) as a Power Role.

LMP’s Miller claim seems to shoot this out of the water. Gameplay optimalness aside, do you believe LMP’s claim?

Mykonian you are a bastard for pre-empting me on this.

As a conclusion: although we lost three towny's, I can't say I'm too unhappy.

I had the feeling that Haschel was scum, although I couldn't find out why

, and the other two were a distraction too. From my point of view, we lost three potential targets for a mislynch.

Emphasis added – this statement alone is the reason I’m not keen jump immediately on the Stef wagon. I’m completely not sold on any portion of a case on him that revolves around mechanics speculation as Mod (sorry ) move that target multiple times Day 1.

Before you answer, think: scum might very well try to hunt the vig tonight.
wifom about if the role still exists might benefit the town (though I'm of the opinion that it is better to know it).

Your first sentence is exactly why RC not revealing his hand-off target is important. Scum (if they didn’t receive the ability last night, in which case this is a moot discussion) then have to decide whether to follow their own reads in regards to Pro-Town players and potential PRs or to try to outguess’s RC about who he would have passed the Vig to.

Please get (force)replaced:

antihero

The more you bang this drum while ignoring much worse players like David Parker and Shotty the more I’m inclinded to think that this is manufactured distancing if either of you ends up flipping scum.

unvote
vote mykonian
i was cool with either, and this has a better backing behind it.

You know we just got rid of David Parker and now you are starting this crap?

@LMP

– I will be ISOing you as time allows – your play here just strikes me as way too similar to scum games I have seen you play (ooba’s Mad World Mafia and the just ended Castlevania Mafia as examples).

[mykonian]

The difference between Antihero and shotty/davidparker was that Antihero thought he could get away with not reading the thread yet posting in it (somehow he completely missed Jack's claim and then went on to make a case on Stef). I find that insulting. The two you name actually stay with the game, and interact with it. They are, no matter how badly, playing the game. If someone isn't, like antihero, I'd rather see them replaced

And MoI, you have been suspecting LMP for meta reasons for some time now. I've heard today that LMP can be quite good as town. He clearly isn't here. I believe you are town, and have good itentions, and the addition of the above points against him, I think a LMP wagon might very well a succesful one. I would ask you not to hesitate, and join the LMP wagon.

[Antihero]

I didn't miss jack's claim; I just didn't believe it due to my opinion of Stef.

[danakillsu]

@ XScorp
No. I have not studied DrShotty in any game except the one I played with him.
@ mykonian
That's called a read. townread=/=confirmed town. You cannot use that to prove he is town. It's just you saying his play and shot were pro-town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm impressed. (bump for MoI)

You missed the sarcasm tags. I tend to agree. That’s a horrible return post by Stef. I really need to go back and look at him again. Sigh.

And MoI, you have been suspecting LMP for meta reasons for some time now. I've heard today that LMP can be quite good as town. He clearly isn't here. I believe you are town, and have good itentions, and the addition of the above points against him, I think a LMP wagon might very well a succesful one. I would ask you not to hesitate, and join the LMP wagon.

I appreciate that you think LMP is a good lynch target but please don’t think I’m going to drop a vote so quickly Day 2 just based on assumed goodwill.

@Dana

– don’t think I’ve forgotten your ‘case’ on RC and general play from yesterday. You are still hovering on my radar.

[LimMePls]

I see you dodging that question too LMP.

Dana, have you read any other games with shotty and seen how he behaves?

I've had lots of experience with shotty (3 games I can think of off the top of my head) and he has been absolutely terrible for the town in all of them.

I thought it went without saying. What are you trying to prove? We've all had the same experiences with him.

[mykonian]

Alright. Any counterclaim to RC's shooting of Jack?

vote: mykonian

The Stef vote is awful and his last post looks like scum rolefishing.

Why was my Stef vote awful.

dana, for once, don't avoid this question and answer.

[mykonian]

That's called a read. townread=/=confirmed town. You cannot use that to prove he is town. It's just you saying his play and shot were pro-town.

Do you have any reason to suspect RC?

no? Then the previous posts by you were just that I used the wrong word. And they were a waste of time, because unless you think I and RC are scum together, you weren't scumhunting.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Anti
Dana
You are dodging my question.
I get really really pissed off when people dodge my questions.
Answer before I start throwing votes at you.

jUST FYI, i LEARNED THIS THE HARD WAY. aNSWER HIS QUESTIONS OR YOU WILL BE AUTO SCUM TO HIM AND GET TUNNLED LIKE HELL

[Antihero]

I want everyone to tell me
a) how many games they've played with shotty
b) what roles he was in those games
c) what they think of him so far.

1) 1 finished; A few ongoing
2) townie
3) Voting erratically and without reason? Not out of the ordinary for DMSIS.

Now, finishing up the Stef case:

Post 225: He defends the reasons for the earlier XScorpion vote, but then he puts a failvote on imaginality (which I've already called him down on).
Post 261 explains why the imaginality vote isn't good.
Post 317: It looks like Stef just picked the biggest rivaling wagon, the reason for the dana vote looks pretty forced

Now, why is the Stef wagon bad?

[drmyshottyizsik]

^^it's not

[danakillsu]

@ mykonian
No, I do not wish to try to lynch RC anymore at this juncture. However your calling him confirmed town is way out of bounds and is relevant to the game, so there's nothing wrong with me correcting you.
Your Stef vote was awful because you gave two reasons.
1) He was supposed to be confirmed townie but wasn't NK'd. This is nothing but WIFOM.
2) The extensive case already on him. If there is a case, it's not yours. The only case you ever made on him was on his FIRST FOUR POSTS.

[XScorpion]

a) how "many games they've played with shotty
b) what roles he was in those games
c) what they think of him so far.

a) 4 completed ones I think
b) town town scum godfather
c) Voting for stupid ass reasons seems to fit shotty's play as town. Voting "erratically and without reason" actually seems to fit scum-shotty more than anything. Does anyone else agree with this conclusion?

[mykonian]

2) The extensive case already on him. If there is a case, it's not yours. The only case you ever made on him was on his FIRST FOUR POSTS.

I have no idea why you think that an old case is bad (given that there has been no new information about Stef)

It was well outside of the RVS. The points made against him were good. He lurked out after Jack "confirmed" him. Aaaaand antihero is still adding points to the case about Stef's inability to scumhunt.

So, I assume you have a good reason to think Stef is town. Because my case, though old, is still a good one. Nothing changed that.

[RedCoyote]

I asked this to check if there is still a pro-town role that might kill useless townies.

I understand where you're coming from now; I concede my earlier suspicions. To answer your question, the Mod allowed me 24 hours, post flip, to change my choice (this is probably somewhere in the rules), so I changed it to a player I thought, a, was town, and b, would use it well.

---

I'm definitely not in love with Stef's first post today. It sounds like either a dispirited townie or scum trying to play it low key.

Although I disagree with dana's take on Stef, I think it's valid for him to be suspicious of mykonian feeling like he has to fall back on that. I can see both of their positions, and I don't think either of them are approaching the game in a scummy or "wrong" way.

Vote: Stef