970 Grimm'S PR Madness- OVER

[rewq455]

V/Zscum V/would V/have V/to V/be V/a V/Godfather V/Inventor V/if V/only V/she V/is V/scum. V/It's V/a V/stretch.

V/Z V/isn't V/scum V/with V/me. V/She V/could've V/given V/me V/the V/item V/she V/gave V/you V/and V/won V/the V/game.

V/The V/scum V/from V/my V/PoV V/is V/you V/or V/LL, V/and V/LL V/looks V/more V/plausible V/to V/me V/due V/to V/his V/claim V/implying V/a V/redirector V/or V/"random V/target" V/mechanic V/and V/his V/approach V/to V/D4.

oh yeah didn't think of him giving

megaphone to you and winning. Why isn't Z possible to be scum at all though? I keep thinking about my megaphone

and I keep thinking WIFOM. Can you please quote lockes post where he implies the random target mechanic?

[Iecerint]

W/Godfather + W/Inventor W/seems W/like W/an W/unusual W/combination. W/That's W/the W/only W/reason W/for W/Z W/not W/being W/scum. W/It's W/possible, W/but W/not W/likely.

W/LL W/got W/information W/from W/a W/role W/other W/than W/the W/one W/he W/claimed W/to W/have W/targeted W/every W/night W/except W/N1 W/IIRC.

W/N1 -- W/Targeted W/Zang, W/no W/result W/(cuz W/Zang W/died), W/Zang's W/SK-y W/result W/upon W/asking W/the W/mod
W/N2 -- W/Targeted W/SW, W/got W/Doctor-y W/result W/(presumed W/result W/on W/StrangerCoug)
W/N3 -- W/Targeted W/Zazie, W/got W/Thief-y W/result W/(presumed W/result W/on W/rewq)

W/I'd W/probably W/be W/willing W/to W/NL W/and W/go W/to W/D5 W/with W/3 W/players W/at W/this W/point.

[rewq455]

W/Godfather + W/Inventor W/seems W/like W/an W/unusual W/combination. W/That's W/the W/only W/reason W/for W/Z W/not W/being W/scum. W/It's W/possible, W/but W/not W/likely.

W/LL W/got W/information W/from W/a W/role W/other W/than W/the W/one W/he W/claimed W/to W/have W/targeted W/every W/night W/except W/N1 W/IIRC.

W/N1 -- W/Targeted W/Zang, W/no W/result W/(cuz W/Zang W/died), W/Zang's W/SK-y W/result W/upon W/asking W/the W/mod
W/N2 -- W/Targeted W/SW, W/got W/Doctor-y W/result W/(presumed W/result W/on W/StrangerCoug)
W/N3 -- W/Targeted W/Zazie, W/got W/Thief-y W/result W/(presumed W/result W/on W/rewq)

W/I'd W/probably W/be W/willing W/to W/NL W/and W/go W/to W/D5 W/with W/3 W/players W/at W/this W/point.

You are

right there are

to many people and we are not going anywhere with this

Vote: No lynch

[Locke Lamora]

The Locke agrees. This way, there won't be a possible doublevoting scum and there may be something useful to come out of the night actions, even if it does come down to The Locke randomly getting some new information.

Vote: No Lynch

[Grimmy]

No Lynch - 3

Rewq
Locke Lamora


And thats a NO LYNCH for the day.

Since everyone decided to end the daypeacefully, lets get the night started shall we?

Grimmy

[Grimmy]

Rewq was killed in a very bloody fashion last night. I would love to give you the details but my access is sorely restricted.

Three players remain.
Iecerint
Locke Lamora
Zazier

Good luck.
Day ends in 3 weeks or until a decision is reached.

Grimmy

[Iecerint]

A/I A/targeted A/LL A/and A/got A/a A/Guilty A/result A/(no A/target A/listed A/this A/time, A/probably A/an A/oversight A/due A/to A/Grimmy A/having A/limited A/access). A/I A/have A/an A/Innocent A/on A/Z A/and A/a A/Guilty A/on A/LL. A/Moreover, A/rewq A/had A/a A/guilty A/on A/LL, A/even A/if A/it A/was A/GF-themed. A/Maybe A/he's A/a A/BP-type A/GF A/(to A/go A/with A/the A/SK), A/I A/dunno. A/Either A/way, A/unless A/Z A/is A/a A/framer-GF-inventor A/or A/something A/comparably A/absurd A/is A/at A/work, A/LL A/is A/the A/scum.

A/I A/see A/no A/reason A/to A/put A/off A/voting, A/but A/I'll A/briefly A/do A/it A/anyway A/just A/in A/case A/and A/to A/confirm A/that A/no-name A/being A/listed A/isn't A/contential.

[Locke Lamora]

A godfather result followed by a guilty? It certainly seems like something absurd is at work to The Locke. The Locke thinks this is far more easily explained by you lying than it is by Zazie being some kind of almighty scum inventor. Adding in the no target part just looks like you trying to lend credence to a fake result. The Locke thinks you decided you had more certainty of getting The Locke's lynch by coming up with the guilty on The Locke and pushing the idea of BP-GF over investigation-immune. The Locke also sees scum-caution in your unwillingness to vote.

Vote: Iecerint

The Locke investigated Rewq and got nothing, of course.

[rewq455]

This is my

rage post.

GO TOWN

[Iecerint]

1. B/I B/clearly B/didn't B/forget B/about B/the B/GF B/result B/since B/I B/mentioned B/it B/in B/my B/post. B/If B/I B/were B/scum, B/I B/could've B/made B/up B/whatever B/result B/I B/wanted B/to B/match B/rewq's B/finding B/on B/you. B/Also, B/@ B/Z, B/LISTEN B/TO B/HIM. B/"I B/can't B/be B/scum! B/People B/(including B/flipped B/townies) B/have B/found B/that B/I'm B/a B/Scum B/GF!"

2. B/There B/is B/no B/conceivable B/scum B/motivation B/for B/a B/hypothetical B/scumIec B/to B/remove B/a B/"targetlisted" B/claim. B/It B/would B/imply B/that B/I B/was B/redirected B/and B/hit B/someone B/else, B/if B/anything, B/which B/couldn't B/be B/Z. B/LL's B/failure B/to B/puzzle B/this B/sort B/of B/thing B/out B/shows B/that B/he's B/more B/interested B/in B/getting B/you B/to B/vote B/for B/me B/than B/in B/really B/finding B/the B/scum.

3. B/lol B/"scum B/caution" B/in B/lylo

4. B/Don't B/forget B/rewq's B/Cop B/result B/on B/me B/from B/ages B/ago. B/We B/have B/a B/Cop B/on B/me B/and B/a B/GF-y B/flavor + B/Guilty B/on B/LL.

Vote: LL

[Locke Lamora]

1. The Locke doesn't think you forgot about the GF result. The Locke thinks you decided you could effectively put a double guilty in play by suggesting that The Locke was some other kind of GF. Despite the fact you were expecting an innocent when investigating The Locke, the guilty has still led you to the conclusion that I'm GF. Also, your last sentence is an excellent point. Rewq's flip was clearly designed to make The Locke look worse.

2. The scum motivation is plausibility, and leaving your options open. Both The Locke and Rewq told you they weren't getting their targets listed. Now you come out and declare that you have experienced the same thing. The Locke does not understand why town-Iecy would throw that out there unless it was to support his claim. It also leaves enough doubt about the result in that if The Locke did have any inclination to vote Zazie, you wouldn't have committed yourself fully to voting for The Locke.

3. The Locke has recently seen scum in LyLo FoSing instead of voting. The lack of vote despite your apparent wealth of information pointing to scum-Locke implies cognitive dissonance. You know The Locke is not scum but you have to act like you have a guilty result on him. The certainty of your case is conflicted with your knowledge that you're scum and your desire to not make a mistake in case it gives you away.

4. The Locke has not forgotten Rewq's Cop result from ages ago. The Locke suspects that either a) your investigation-immunity was good for one shot and returned a badge result or b) The Locke carries a badge himself and you swapped yourself with The Locke again. The Locke is not convinced about b) as flavour for his own role, but it would make sense for consistency for you to keep swapping yourself with The Locke.

Incidentally, has Zazie been on site since declaring V/LA? The Locke finds that his last post was August 26th.

The Mod: can The Locke get a prod/replacement on Zazie?

[Iecerint]

C/You C/killed C/rewq C/because C/Z C/has C/called C/me C/scum C/all C/game C/and C/rewq C/looked C/town C/for C/being C/given C/the C/item C/and C/still C/going C/NL, C/etc.

C/Town-Iecy C/"threw C/that C/out C/there" C/because C/it C/happened.

C/Sounds C/made-up.

C/Waiting C/on C/Z.

[Locke Lamora]

So what do you think, that The Locke is BP Godfather-Investigator?

[Iecerint]

D/You D/may D/be D/BPGF, D/or D/the D/GF D/stuff D/may D/just D/be D/misinterpreted D/mafia D/flavor. D/You D/aren't D/an D/investigator D/at D/all.

[Locke Lamora]

And you think The Locke's motivation for claiming that his investigation results have been on different targets to those he chose is what, exactly?

[Iecerint]

E/Well, E/you E/only E/ever E/gave E/us E/information E/we E/already E/had E/due E/to E/flips E/or E/claims E/IIRC. E/You E/presumably E/did E/it E/because E/you E/had E/to E/if E/you E/wanted E/to E/fakeclaim E/Thief.

[Locke Lamora]

So you're saying The Locke planned to claim a variation on thief when Rewq had already claimed thief, then made up his random results, adding in the fake interest on Snow White at the start of D3 to match with The Locke's fabricated doctor result on her. Not only that, but you presumably must be saying that The Locke simply made up the no target part of his results, which then coincidentally matched with Rewq's investigation results. Does The Locke have that all correct?

[Iecerint]

F/You F/claimed F/Thief F/to F/semi-CC F/Deer, F/who F/looked F/sketchy F/for F/the F/delayed F/Miller F/claim. F/Similarly, F/you F/claimed F/the F/doctor F/result F/on F/SW F/to F/pull F/her F/claim F/into F/question.

F/Not F/100% F/sure F/on F/who F/claimed F/no F/target F/first, F/but F/I'd F/have F/to F/grant F/that. F/Could F/be F/that F/you F/have F/some F/other F/kind F/of F/ability F/like F/Rolecop F/(if F/rewq's F/find F/was F/just F/meant F/to F/be F/mafia-flavored F/items) F/and F/got F/your F/result F/targetless.

[Locke Lamora]

So now you think The Locke is some kind of investigative role as well as godfather?

[Iecerint]

G/You G/are G/totally G/twisting G/shit G/around.

G/You G/could G/be G/an G/investigative G/role, G/but G/it's G/not G/necessary G/to G/explain G/anything. G/You G/could G/be G/a G/(BP-type) GF, G/but G/it's G/not G/necessary G/to G/explain G/anything.

[Locke Lamora]

The Locke is twisting shit around? The Locke has had both godfather and guilty results on him over the last two days, which The Locke thinks is about as twisted as it gets. To put what you're claiming into perspective, this is how the game would play out from Scum-Locke's point of view: The Locke loses his partner on N2 and, despite knowing he has to survive to endgame by himself, half CCs Rewq and comes up with a completely random result on Snow White, then pushes for a lynch on both of those players, either of whose flips would obviously discredit himself further, kills the person he knew he had a fictional result on the next night, leaving both the claimed cop and thief alive, the claimed cop for two nights, despite knowing that he is not investigation-immune and would thus come up guilty. The Locke thinks the claims and actions of this game make a whole lot more sense from scum-Iecy's perspective.

[Iecerint]

1. H/Not H/all H/Godfathers H/are H/investigation-immune. H/Some H/are H/BP H/instead, H/or H/they H/just H/send H/in H/the H/kill H/(admittedly H/rare H/in H/site H/meta, H/but H/Grimmy H/is H/associated H/with H/other H/sites H/mostly, H/IIRC, H/so H/ye H/know).

2. H/The H/items H/rewq H/found H/on H/you H/could H/just H/as H/well H/indicate H/that H/you're H/mafia, H/since H/the H/movie H/The H/Godfather H/is H/about H/the H/mafia.

3. And H/yeah, H/the H/fact H/that H/you H/tried H/to H/lynch H/town H/totally H/makes H/you H/town. H/Great H/logic H/there, H/too.

4. You H/left H/me H/alive H/because H/Z's H/thought H/I H/was H/scum H/most H/of H/the H/game. H/I H/definitely H/would've H/killed H/her H/if H/I H/were H/scum, H/since H/I've H/claimed H/Innocent H/on H/her H/and H/she's H/said H/she H/thinks H/I'm H/scum.

[Locke Lamora]

The Locke is not saying it's impossible to have a non investigation-immune GF. The Locke is just pointing out the implausibility of events panning out like this if The Locke was scum.

As for the Zazie thing, it's just massive WIFOM territory. You might have left Zazie alive to avoid implicating yourself, you might have decided there were better targets to get rid of to implicate The Locke, you might simply have wanted certain players out of the game. You had no concerns about being investigated because you knew there wasn't a full cop in the game, and once Rewq had the badge result on you, you knew The Locke wasn't going to investigate you. After massclaim you were sitting pretty and were free to pursue whatever course of action was best for winning the game, which you have clearly decided was best achieved by setting up The Locke.

[Iecerint]

I/You're I/pretending I/that I/you I/have I/to I/be I/some I/kind I/of I/improbable I/role I/to I/be I/scum, I/but I/it I/isn't I/true. I/You I/could I/very I/well I/be I/a I/goon, I/balance I/issues I/notwithstanding. I/That's I/my I/point.

I I/brought I/up I/Z I/being I/the I/3rd I/because I/YOU I/brought I/up I/NK I/logic. I'm I/showing I/that I/Z's I/attitude I/toward I/us, I/especially I/compared I/to I/rewq's, I/is I/a I/much I/more I/parsimonious I/explanation.

I/Why I/would I I/be I/worried I/about I/you I/investigating I/me? I/Your I/"results" I/are I/totally I/unreliable.

[Locke Lamora]

The Locke's point is that The Locke's play makes no sense if The Locke is scum but not investigation-immune. There are absolutes, such as a sane cop investigation, and there are much more variable factors, such as the opinion of a particular player. Your logic argues that scum-Locke repeatedly passed up the chance to kill investigative roles who could get clear guilty results on him in favour of setting you up as scum, thus ignoring the absolutes and relying on unpredictable variables.

That's a completely invalid point in the context of the game around massclaim. Prior to massclaim, you had no idea that The Locke even had results. After massclaim, you had everyone believing you were cop and you still had no idea that The Locke's results were unreliable, unless you had something to do with it, which seems very unlikely.

Zazie or a replacement is sorely needed here to stop us arguing about this for three weeks. Judging by Zazie's prolonged absence, a replacement definitely looks like the better bet.