Mini 1040 - Everyone's A Critic! [Game Over]

[danakillsu]

@HC
Unless you have a post restriction, please use spellcheck or something.
I still don't think Jack or DP is the lynch for today. They both seem to be playing the way they do as town.

[kunkstar7]

:: VoteCount 1x13 ::

Antihero (0) -
MagnaofIllusion (0) -

RedCoyote (1) -

danakillsu

danakillsu (1) -

LynchMePls

Jack (1) -

mykonian

Haschel Cedricson (0) -

LynchMePls (0) -

XScorpion (0) -

Stef (1) -

Haschel Cedricson

drmyshottyizsik (0) -

mykonian (2) -

Jack, DavidParker

DavidParker (5) -

MagnaOfIllusion, Xscorpion, RedCoyote, drmyshottyizsik, Stef

Not Voting (1) -

Antihero

With 12 Alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

September 19, 2010 5:00PM EST.

[mykonian]

If Jack is scum, Dana is too. Jack is

definately

not following his town meta (be this by choice or not). DP seems normal enough, but I suspect he is only used in the above post to defend Jack. This meta defense is based on nothing, and dana-town has barely a reason to defend.

Talking about meta: this is not Dana town. I've been thinking about it long, and it should be said. One thing that is very much part of Dana's townplay, as I see it, is reactionary play. It's bad, but it is dana. Dana is surprisingly concious of how he is seen here in this game, and is ... calmer. I think that is the right word. More concrete, I haven't seen Dana react on a starting wagon (Jacks, starting from Haschel's post) with such dismissal. That he doesn't have good reasons for it seals the deal for me.

[LimMePls]

Interesting how mykonian suddenly thinks Jack's play isn't Jack-town, but earlier in the thread he seemed to like Jack's play fine. The only thing I see different is that Jack is now calling mykonian scum.

[mykonian]

almost. Jack called me scum because of "gut" reasons, and didn't offer any reads on other players. This together with the quotes below makes me think Jack sucks, which perfectly allows me to OMGUS him. (you can't OMGUS properly if the other person doesn't suck)

I feel like keeping my cards close to my chest for a while, experimental thing.

@dana: has red done anything else scummy?

...

In other news, I have town reads on 5 (maybe 6) players and scum reads on 3. Feeling very good about 2 of the scum. Still 2 or 3 people I'm unsure about though.

When I feel I have a good enough lock on the third scum I will post my reads, and choose a town seeming player (if there is one interested) to debate them with. If anyone disagrees with this strategy they can explain why the conclusions about attitude polarization that the researchers came up with are incorrect :smug:

I apologize, I was very into this game for a while but various things have drawn my interest elsewhere. It appears I will be lobbing my opinion in from the sidelines rather than making substantial cases like I intended.

Claim: Unrequited best friend

Like a one-way mason. I know that Stef is innocent but he knows nothing about me. A wagon on him was ideal from my perspective as it allows a much better read of the game.

vote:mykonian

Useless and unpersuasive gut scum read, etc.

Antihero is another of my picks for scum.

I had concerns about jelly but the miller claim seems to have softened those.

I know that xscorpion was my third scum pick, but unfortunately I don't remember why I had a scum read on him and a town read on dana a few days ago, I will stick with that though.

What cards did he keep to his chest? With all his observation, he basically bought himself an excuse to play his scumgame, which consists of lurking. (there are some links to Jacks games somewhere in this thread). And with Haschel's post about Jack's previous game, his claim suddenly becomes more suspect (as it is a conveniant claim, if you think it through). Jack breadcrumbed his role quite a bit during early game, but he doesn't claim it (it is for us to find). Breadcrumbs don't really matter if scum was planning to use such a claim on day 1.

and to remind you:

I have very good reason to believe there are only two scum...gives us a bit more leeway.

He has claimed. Nothing about his role implies 2 scum. Why did Jack say this?




So yeah, the post where he votes me (and claims, and provides little information for being that far in the game) was indeed a turning point. I have long pressed Jack to provide us with info, and only the assumption that it would come made that I didn't suspect him.

[LimMePls]

I think we're on to something here.

Unvote
Vote: mykonian

[danakillsu]

If Jack is scum, Dana is too. Jack is

definately

not following his town meta (be this by choice or not). DP seems normal enough, but I suspect he is only used in the above post to defend Jack. This meta defense is based on nothing, and dana-town has barely a reason to defend.

Talking about meta: this is not Dana town. I've been thinking about it long, and it should be said. One thing that is very much part of Dana's townplay, as I see it, is reactionary play. It's bad, but it is dana. Dana is surprisingly concious of how he is seen here in this game, and is ... calmer. I think that is the right word. More concrete, I haven't seen Dana react on a starting wagon (Jacks, starting from Haschel's post) with such dismissal. That he doesn't have good reasons for it seals the deal for me.

I don't get this post at all. It doesn't make you scum, but I just don't get it. If you've been thinking about it long, why didn't you say something before now? RC is very much accusing me of being reactionary in this game. What do you say to that? What about being calmer makes me scum? For that matter, how does being conscious of how I might be seen make me scum?
I just really don't think anything here is good enough to base much of anything on.

[RedCoyote]

Mod

, may I asked who, if anyone, helped you (review/co-create) the setup?

[mykonian]

Mod

, may I asked who, if anyone, helped you (review/co-create) the setup?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2358945

If Jack is scum, Dana is too. Jack is

definately

not following his town meta (be this by choice or not). DP seems normal enough, but I suspect he is only used in the above post to defend Jack. This meta defense is based on nothing, and dana-town has barely a reason to defend.

Talking about meta: this is not Dana town. I've been thinking about it long, and it should be said. One thing that is very much part of Dana's townplay, as I see it, is reactionary play. It's bad, but it is dana. Dana is surprisingly concious of how he is seen here in this game, and is ... calmer. I think that is the right word. More concrete, I haven't seen Dana react on a starting wagon (Jacks, starting from Haschel's post) with such dismissal. That he doesn't have good reasons for it seals the deal for me.

I don't get this post at all. It doesn't make you scum, but I just don't get it. If you've been thinking about it long, why didn't you say something before now? RC is very much accusing me of being reactionary in this game. What do you say to that? What about being calmer makes me scum? For that matter, how does being conscious of how I might be seen make me scum?
I just really don't think anything here is good enough to base much of anything on.

ok, early game you lurked, as far as I could see. I couldn't get a real read on you, so I thought: "lets make a badly reasoned vote on Dana". There was barely a reaction. However, as this was only one read, together with your lurking, it didn't really become something solid. Until you defended Jack without reason when there is a serious chance (with Haschels post) that Jack is going to be our lynch.

For the rest, if you want theory discussion, I can give it, but I'm not going to do it now, as it makes this post even more unreadable.

I think we're on to something here.

Unvote
Vote: mykonian

Your case (seen your last post) is that I placed an OMGUS vote. I have explaned why Jack sucks (and why his claim does too).

So, I'd like one of two things from you:

A. Show me where my points against Jack are wrong and why Jack doesn't suck.
B. Make a case on me that isn't based on that OMGUS vote by me.

[LimMePls]

So, I'd like one of two things from you:

A. Show me where my points against Jack are wrong and why Jack doesn't suck.
B. Make a case on me that isn't based on that OMGUS vote by me.

No. I'm not letting you manipulate me. You want to twist what you've done to make it look better, but in the end you have shown that your "reads" on people are purely tactical. You thought Jack was awesome earlier when he was agreeing with you, but the moment he started thinking you might be scum you decide that he is no longer obv-town and start calling him scum. You need lynching I think.

[mykonian]

So, I'd like one of two things from you:

A. Show me where my points against Jack are wrong and why Jack doesn't suck.
B. Make a case on me that isn't based on that OMGUS vote by me.

No. I'm not letting you manipulate me. You want to twist what you've done to make it look better, but in the end you have shown that your "reads" on people are purely tactical. You thought Jack was awesome earlier when he was agreeing with you, but the moment he started thinking you might be scum you decide that he is no longer obv-town and start calling him scum. You need lynching I think.

No. You don't understand this game. If you think I'm scum, get arguments and manipulate the rest. You aren't doing so. Even more, you aren't reading other players posts. Both I and Haschel have made good posts about Jack and... Jack hasn't defended.

Jack has never agreed with my Stef case. Since I have been on Stef all game long, Jack has never agreed with me. Nice try, silly boy. Get your facts straight before you try to be aggressive.

[LimMePls]

Oh ya, so you didn't say:

jack is town.

? I think you can take your condescension and pedantic "preaching" and shove it. I've got a fine grasp on the game, and I've read everyone's posts

[DavidParker]

So, can someone clear up the whole game issue that jack is saying he wasn't in and Haschel is saying he was in where Jack had the same role?

[mykonian]

Oh ya, so you didn't say:

jack is town.

? I think you can take your condescension and pedantic "preaching" and shove it. I've got a fine grasp on the game, and I've read everyone's posts

That quote is the

12th post in the game!

I'd think that my reads then aren't that accurate, and further, that in the next

16 pages

I might have a reason to change them. Esspecially if I posted that reasons. You don't even have a case. And if you quote from the 12th post in the game, you seriously have no fine grasp of the game.

[mykonian]

So, can someone clear up the whole game issue that jack is saying he wasn't in and Haschel is saying he was in where Jack had the same role?

Figurative speach. Jack doesn't really want to be reminded about that game, as his strategy (as town) lost the game for his whole team. Now, same to you as to Lynchme, get some scumhunting going. You have been asking a simple question, which some reading (search "white flag mafia" for example) would have answered. Stop your lurking.

[Jack]

You don't even have a case.

don't panic too much. Phate. It takes quite some time to get me lynched here. As long as I can keep CSL satisfied with bandwagons to hop on, fishy doesn't get replaced, I should be fine. There are a lot of people putting me in their lists, but the reason that there hasn't been a serious wagon against me the last day, is because there is simply no case.

[Jack]

No. I'm not letting you manipulate me. You want to twist what you've done to make it look better, but in the end you have shown that your "reads" on people are purely tactical.

Precisely.

So, can someone clear up the whole game issue that jack is saying he wasn't in and Haschel is saying he was in where Jack had the same role?

I was a VT in that game. That game also had the "unrequited best friend role (redcoyote had it).

[mykonian]

You don't even have a case.

don't panic too much. Phate. It takes quite some time to get me lynched here. As long as I can keep CSL satisfied with bandwagons to hop on, fishy doesn't get replaced, I should be fine. There are a lot of people putting me in their lists, but the reason that there hasn't been a serious wagon against me the last day, is because there is simply no case.

Not applicable here. Fishy pronounced I was town there, and CSL proved to be an extra vote now and then. Noone follows me here, or has pronounced I'm certain town.

[Jack]

Jack this game:
Posts: 42/391 = 10.74%

Jack as lurking scum (vanillaside):
Posts:17/749 = 2.27%


My play this game is my town meta, check physics mafia. Difference is I held back my opinion for a while instead of vote hopping.

bonus:

Yeah I think

hero

-exe-

kdub

is most likely.

5.

Kdub

, The Higgs Boson;

Mafia Roleblocker

, lynched Day 1
2. Exe Nightwolf, Werner Heisenberg, Quantum Theorist (Tracker/Watcher), Killed Night 1 (vigged by ythill)
3. Jack, Wave Theory, Vanilla Townie, Killed Night 1
1.

Herodotus

, Sir Issac Newton,

Mafia Godfather

, lynched Day 3

[Jack]

Not applicable here. Fishy pronounced I was town there, and CSL proved to be an extra vote now and then. Noone follows me here, or has pronounced I'm certain town.

What is not applicable? I was referencing the smirking-scum "there is no case" tone, which is the same. It's one part of your play, and fits with the theme. I recognize your style very well. It's a big red flag, one of the most underrated (or unknown) scumtells.

[mykonian]

Not applicable here. Fishy pronounced I was town there, and CSL proved to be an extra vote now and then. Noone follows me here, or has pronounced I'm certain town.

What is not applicable? I was referencing the smirking-scum "there is no case" tone, which is the same. It's one part of your play, and fits with the theme. I recognize your style very well. It's a big red flag, one of the most underrated (or unknown) scumtells.

Nah, I use that when I believe a person actually doesn't have a case. This is part of both my scumplay and my townplay. As scum I'm usually perfectly aware that a case could be made, and it is usually used when the player in question has made an incorrect case or votes without good reasons. As town it usually shows annoyance about a vote without reason.

In this case, Lynchme says I OMGUS vote. I think the only towngame I have read of you was teleportation mafia. And there you really created, made the game about you, now and then. Here you choose to stay on the sidelines. Meaning it isn't a "tactical vote" (which would be horrible as scum in this case, btw). Lynchme's quote from

the 12th post in the game

where I said you were town, to prove some inconsistency is laughable.

He doesn't have a case. So either he makes one, or he admits he sucks. He won't do the last, so I want my case.

[mykonian]

Jack this game:
Posts: 42/391 = 10.74%

Jack as lurking scum (vanillaside):
Posts:17/749 = 2.27%

This game is slow. Further, post counts don't matter that much: what did you type?

I'm the first person you make a case on, with arguments. It is page 16. That counts.

[DavidParker]

Jack this game:
Posts: 42/391 = 10.74%

Jack as lurking scum (vanillaside):
Posts:17/749 = 2.27%


My play this game is my town meta, check physics mafia. Difference is I held back my opinion for a while instead of vote hopping.

bonus:

Yeah I think

hero

-exe-

kdub

is most likely.

5.

Kdub

, The Higgs Boson;

Mafia Roleblocker

, lynched Day 1
2. Exe Nightwolf, Werner Heisenberg, Quantum Theorist (Tracker/Watcher), Killed Night 1 (vigged by ythill)
3. Jack, Wave Theory, Vanilla Townie, Killed Night 1
1.

Herodotus

, Sir Issac Newton,

Mafia Godfather

, lynched Day 3

I don't like you claiming yourself that this is your town meta. But I still find myko scummier.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The fact you actually think that is the most probable scum team right now makes me question both your intelligence and your alignment. That is the practically the least likely scum team I see possible.

Based on your play you have the audacity to question someone else’s intelligence? All you have done is post useless fluff, explained that you couldn’t get into the game when called on it, posted more fluff and useless questions and bandwagonned.

BUT, Jack just DENIED being in said game. So..... Someone link or explain this.

Mykonian’s translation gave you the EXACT game name. Why is it impossible for you to go looking for it yourself?

You are scum. Just admit it so we can lynch you.

Seriously people – what does it take for you to see that DP is just scum?

Interesting how mykonian suddenly thinks Jack's play isn't Jack-town, but earlier in the thread he seemed to like Jack's play fine. The only thing I see different is that Jack is now calling mykonian scum.

No. I'm not letting you manipulate me. You want to twist what you've done to make it look better, but in the end you have shown that your "reads" on people are purely tactical. You thought Jack was awesome earlier when he was agreeing with you, but the moment he started thinking you might be scum you decide that he is no longer obv-town and start calling him scum. You need lynching I think.

Mykonian has already shown this to be incorrect. I even went out of my way earlier today to provide three recent Jack meta games when mykonian expressed his suspicion of Jack’s alignment based on meta.

These combined are a lazy, scummy attack. Not what I expect from Town LMP.

Also the whole ‘I’m not letting you manipulate me’ line is pure crap that I expect to see from a weak player. LMP you are not a weak player.

In general, there isn't much you can definitively point at in mafia to say is scummy. There are a number of "agreed upon" things, and many that aren't. Some that only one person knows about only one other person. Even those things come down to making the judgement, based on the persons post, that they were doing it in a scummy way. So cases aren't as important as people say (often I just read for tone and ignore the reasoning). mykonian is an overall read that he's scum looking for a target rather than town looking for a lynch, do you guys want a smoking gun, well that's nice.

Nice looking but generally useless post that attempts to look Pro-Town. Everything comes down to judgement and motivation about why people are posting as they do? Thanks, didn’t realize this

You may think cases aren’t important. I think unexplained reads with no support ‘aren’t as important’ as some people say. I also find it ironic that you are voting for mykonian when in the post where the above statement was made you make a ‘case’ against Antihero.

Also, please answer the question that mykonian asked that you have dodged.

He has claimed. Nothing about his role implies 2 scum. Why did Jack say this?

It simply is posting on current events. There's no "how" to it.

You called them current,

important

events. I don’t see that your semantic argument with HC or your opinion that Jack is obvtown with no reasoning qualifies as important.

1. It's scummy because of what he does later in ISO 8. It's not scummy that he isn't 100% sure I'm scum, it's that he pretends to be growing more sure that I am scum and then backs off when some pressure is put on him by saying "if I had to guess" and thereby pretending he's not as sure as he was saying he was.

His growing suspicion of you doesn’t mean he is absolutely certain. From a Town persepective everything is at some level a guess and I find your statement that he is backing off absurd.

[danakillsu]

surety>growing suspicion>suspicion>a guess
This is fairly obvious. He went straight to level 2, up to level 3, and then suddenly back down to level 2. Why? Because someone put a little pressure on him.