Mini 1040 - Everyone's A Critic! [Game Over]

[kunkstar7]

:: VoteCount 1x12 ::

Antihero (0) -
MagnaofIllusion (0) -

RedCoyote (1) -

danakillsu

danakillsu (2) -

LynchMePls, Stef

Jack (0) -

Haschel Cedricson (1) -

drmyshottyizsik

LynchMePls (0) -

XScorpion (0) -

Stef (3) -

Haschel Cedricson, Antihero, mykonian

drmyshottyizsik (0) -

mykonian (2) -

Jack, DavidParker

DavidParker (3) -

MagnaOfIllusion, Xscorpion, RedCoyote

Not Voting (0) -

With 12 Alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

September 19, 2010 5:00PM EST.

drmyshottyizsik replaces imaginality effective as of this post. There are currently no prods needed.

[drmyshottyizsik]

ahh fuck

vote daveparker

he's always scumz anyway I'll read and catch up tomorow

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'm reading and have thoughts, but now I need to wait for drmyshottyizsik to get caught up.

[XScorpion]

Yeah you might be waiting a while. For nothing. Just sayin'.
Definitely not surprised at shotty hopping on the same wagon as me so I don't pay attention to him. That's right, IGMEOY shotty.

I'd love to hear why DavidParker shouldn't be lynched today...totally loving his last vote btw, real pro-town to throw a vote out without explanation </sarcasm>
If I had to make a guess right now, I'd say Jack/DavidParker/Dana scumteam.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Yeah you might be waiting a while. For nothing. Just sayin'.

I know, and unfortunately it's the fact that I know that makes it necessary.

[MagnaofIllusion]

My review of Dana's case -

5: After voting me originally because I had not posted content, he keeps his vote on me after I have posted content. Why? Because I'm supposedly afraid of expressing my opinion on events. Well if you look at the post he linked to, expressing my opinion on current, important events is all I've done. One of the major points in his case at this moment is that I called Jack town based on meta/gut. Another is that I unvoted and voted him (which was because the mod did not include my vote in the votecount)

In ISO 5 RedCoyote links to your 191. In that post you do the following.

Respond to HC regarding Stefs posting as ‘goodposting’.
Respond to HC regarding semantics about the timing of a read and the phrase “at this point”
Revote RC since the Mod had missed your first vote.
State Jack is obvtown.

How is this posting opinions on current, important events?

6: Confirms his vote on me, saying he's sure of himself, and discounts my posts as ignoring most of the game (without quoting any of my posts of course)

1. How is confirming his vote on a suspect scummy?
2. Your statement that he is sure of him misrepresents what he stated. He stated he is getting more comfortable with his vote based on your continued posting. How is that statement scummy?

8: Says "if he had to guess" that he'd guess I was not town. Obviously not as sure of himself as he was.

His ISO 8 is quite detailed about the reasons for voting you. He also questions you on several points. To suggest that it is scummy because he’s not 100% sure you are scum is a poor attack. Town is never sure when hunting scum as they are the Uninformed Minority.

9: Quotes four of my posts.
a) ignores most of my post and does little besides basic contradiction of the part he doesn't ignore
b) blatant misrep and exaggeration (as I already pointed out)
c) calls my simple, unadulterated statement of truth "pouting" for some reason
d) blatant misrep and exaggeration

A. The first quote directly addresses that short statement you made in reaction to his statement that your meta change doesn’t suit you. And he clearly does more there than basic contradiction. Can you explain how responding to a part of a post is inherently scummy?
B. It is an exaggeration. First solidly valid point I see.
C. Your simple, unadulterated truth is a massive boatload of AtE.
D. I disagree – this is an interpretation and hardly a ‘misrep’.

12: Obvious and unnecessary condescension

How is that scummy?

I don’t see any significant indications in this ‘case’ that RedCoyote is scum.

because I don't yet have any idea who I should vote for. Both my case (+vote) on dana and Jack were mostly of an investigative nature. Only my gutread on Haschel remains, and I don't want to vote on that. Before I'll reread (tonight), I have a few questions for Jack.

So because you don’t have a strong candidate you would rather park your vote on someone you now admit is likely Town?

And what are your thoughts on David Parker?

DP is conveniently laying low. DP, what is your opinion on Dana's RC case?

You could help alleviate the problem by voting for him.

[Antihero]

I'll make a real post tomorrow when I catch up, but I'll respond to Jack's claim now. I guess Jack could be scum with Stef, but that would be a really ballsy gambit.

UNVOTE: Stef

Also, I'm pretty unsure as to why Stef being town would imply mykonian scum. I don't think the case on Stef was weak.

[Jack]

The game has to be viewed as a whole.

[DavidParker]

Yeah you might be waiting a while. For nothing. Just sayin'.
Definitely not surprised at shotty hopping on the same wagon as me so I don't pay attention to him. That's right, IGMEOY shotty.

I'd love to hear why DavidParker shouldn't be lynched today...totally loving his last vote btw, real pro-town to throw a vote out without explanation </sarcasm>
If I had to make a guess right now, I'd say Jack/DavidParker/Dana scumteam.

The fact you actually think that is the most probable scum team right now makes me question both your intelligence and your alignment. That is the practically the least likely scum team I see possible.

[Stef]

I agree with DP that the scumteam presented by scorp is highly unlikely. However, I find DP severely lacking in posts and answers to questions and explanations for votes.

unvote, Vote DP

[LimMePls]

The game has to be viewed as a whole.

Thanks Mr. Miyagi. Now do you have anything useful to add to the game?

[mykonian]

xscorp: I know Stef is no longer in danger. With that knowledge, I'd rather take the time in stead of hastily voting someone without doing the necesary research. And you saw how much I advanced with my reread... I could just as easily unvote, but it really doesn't matter.

[Jack]

ok.

In general, there isn't much you can definitively point at in mafia to say is scummy. There are a number of "agreed upon" things, and many that aren't. Some that only one person knows about only one other person. Even those things come down to making the judgement, based on the persons post, that they were doing it in a scummy way. So cases aren't as important as people say (often I just read for tone and ignore the reasoning). mykonian is an overall read that he's scum looking for a target rather than town looking for a lynch, do you guys want a smoking gun, well that's nice.

Antihero did the same thing, I think I can quote it though. And you guys will probably go for him because he's only got 15 posts and myk has been "protown"

True, if anything is suspicious on Stef's part here, it would be trying to start a distracting, stupid theory debate. Preview Edit: Stef backed off, never mind.

Speaking of distracting, stupid theory debates:

doesn't find stef scummy at all, just thinks it's distracting

So, how's the rolefishing going?

What does antihero think about this? Why does town-antihero make this simple comment and not follow up? SCum often jump on a standard scumtell when they are faking it, it doesn't require any acting.

His ISO 6 is scum deciding to get on the wagon. Then he sits on it and disappears.

Also, I'm pretty unsure as to why Stef being town would imply mykonian scum. I don't think the case on Stef was weak.

I also find this quote interesting but that's back to mykonian

[Jack]

mykonian scum meta for anyone interested:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 56&t=13270

[Jack]

quote from mykonian mafia qt:

All their accusations, reason about them. As long as you have had well reasoned votes, this should be no problem. If you made a mistake, admit it was a mistake (don't do this too often, but townies make mistakes, and arguing for something that is clearly wrong is going to hurt you more: better end the subject). You probably won't make a lot of those mistakes if you check your posts, and reason your votes well. I would be surprised if it happened once.

[Antihero]

doesn't find stef scummy at all, just thinks it's distracting

Yeah, just pull out one isolated quote.

What does antihero think about this? Why does town-antihero make this simple comment and not follow up? SCum often jump on a standard scumtell when they are faking it, it doesn't require any acting.

I realized that jelly was right in that if there was any rolefishing going on, it was being done by you.
I didn't see you as scum then, so I didn't persue it further.

Looking back, and without considering Jack's claim, Stef is still looking pretty scummy to me. You sure you're reading your alleged role PM right, Jack?

Now, I

have

been procrastinating on the whole dana-RC thing, mostly because the text walls make my eyes bleed. I'll sit down and read those when I get the chance.

[danakillsu]

@MoI
It simply is posting on current events. There's no "how" to it.
1. It's scummy because of what he does later in ISO 8. It's not scummy that he isn't 100% sure I'm scum, it's that he pretends to be growing more sure that I am scum and then backs off when some pressure is put on him by saying "if I had to guess" and thereby pretending he's not as sure as he was saying he was.
2. Answered above.
Unnecessary condescension is a tactic employed by scum to make themselves look like they are in control and thereby actually gain control of the situation.

[Haschel Cedricson]

EBWOP:

Sometimes it's best to just set aside your suspect for a few days and let the game develop, it seems that way to me anyway.

This quote is hilarious after the White Flag Mafia fiasco.

I was in no such game.

Altrfinght, herdsz the deal. Ja k an d i were recently ina game called Whikte Flag Magia wi9th Roed COyote and Drmyshottyhjiszik. n this ghame we staretged a bandwagon on drmyushottyhikszei, that ultimately resulted on is lujnch. Redxcohyt was an unerequilteed bestf riend witbh drmyhshotthyjissik anre post garme we talke about how inf redcoutote had claimed earlier thane we might have avoided two mizslynfches.

Nopwe we bhave a game - the game ONE RIGHRTE AFTER WHItEFlag - where we have THE EZXACT SAME CILAIM in similar circumstances (i., e gthe firzst major bandwagon just happens to be congfiemed towen by someboyd esle- an Redcoyhtoe downsnt thintk it[s worht commentinhg on. i find terhisd bizawrre., I';m not sayuhjting that Jack is not a cunreequitred neigrfbor but ikt do think it is mindzbolrdvgggling that redcouvotye doent find this odd at all. SAtef and dqana have been invdceredibvly scumy this game, so werhen somebo9unbdyh sayhs something that cleafdredsx one oft mu two major suspectesx it'm fgoine to liik t6o see if thewstory mkaes sense. jacdk's stoyur is not impowssible. butr is it improbsbler? io thiknyt swo.

i UNDREWSTAND MYKONIKAN'S POJKNT ABOUT MOH THERE IS BEYR EW SCENARISONS TAHT RESULT IN A SCMMMM STEF FEVREN IF HHACK IS LYING BUT IF THINK THAERE IS A PISTTIBILIYT THAT JACK ASSUMES THAQT REDCOYOTE AND I WILL BE CAUTION WHEN VONTRONTED WHTI THE UNTEQUITED NERINGHBOR CLim so I'm noiw quite qure what to thinm,k. my gut says that jakf is lyinghm, but i'm noiut sure. hjis pluarystye this game is rapikdly becom3ing unJMaklike, and iwant to press Rodscotute to see what he hitnks.

aint he meantime i am not unffotinh Stref; zslghoui mykonisn raises a vsalaind point I think awite flang magia makines things not mneatly as cuyt and drikned.

[Haschel Cedricson]

oh fujck is was foing to wayit for drmyshotty is sixk to pist but i suippoiese in the lont reun it dopes matte.r

[RedCoyote]

It's not that I don't notice it... it's that I'd feel like the town would be making a huge misstep if we were to lynch on it and get it wrong. I think I'd prefer lynching away from it and seeing how the mafia responds to it.

Mod

, may I asked who, if anyone, helped you (review/co-create) the setup?

[RedCoyote]

So doc, what do you think of our little game? You voted David pretty quick there, is that really all you have to give us?

[RedCoyote]

(Sorry, one more post)

We need a lynch most of all. It's not necessary that we take this entire burden of, "Is this claim real?", "What does this mean for Stef?", etc. on our backs today. We need to be thinking about it of course, but the town doesn't need to solve the game on D1. We're all experienced here, I don't need to tell y'all how important lynches and player flips are.

So let's find an acceptable D1 lynch, cross our fingers, and let the chips fall where they may. The deadline will sneak up on us if we let it. I'm willing to hop back on dana (although I'm beginning to think dana is a statue given how hard and immobile he's been, literally I can't remember the last time I've seen someone this solid), but I'm now thinking that isn't the best path. I'd like David. He's been sneaking around, his alliances and scumreads are all over the place, and he's absent when we need him most. I just feel like he's faking his scumhunting more than anyone else here (with the exception possibly of dr.shotty, but that's a different thing).

[mykonian]

EBWOP:

Sometimes it's best to just set aside your suspect for a few days and let the game develop, it seems that way to me anyway.

This quote is hilarious after the White Flag Mafia fiasco.

I was in no such game.

Alright, here's the deal. Jack and I were recently in a game called White Flag Mafia with Red Coyote and Drmyshottyiszik. In this game we started a bandwagon on drmyshottyiszik, that ultimately resulted in his lynch. Redcoyote was an unrecruited best friend with drmyshottyiszik and post game we talked about how if redcoyote had claimed earlier then we might have avoided two mislynches.

Now we have a game - the game ONE RIGHT AFTER White Flag - where we have THE EXACT SAME CLAIM in similar circumstances (i.e. the first major bandwagon just happens to be confirmed town by somebody else and Redcoyote doesn't think it's worth commenting on. I find this bizarre. I'm not saying that Jack is not a unrecruited neighbor but I do think it is mindboggling that redcoyote doesn't find this odd at all. Stef and dana have been incredibily scummy this game, so when somebody says something that cleared one of my two major suspects I'm going to like to see if the story makes sense. Jacks story is not impossible. But is it improbable? I think so.

I understand mykonians point about "moh" there is "beyr ew" that result in a scum Stef even if Jack is lying, but I think there is a possibility that Jack assumes that Redcoyote and I will be cautioned when confronted with the unrecruited neighbor claim, so I'm not quite sure what to think. My gut says that Jack is lying, but I'm not sure. His playstyle this game is rapidly becoming unJacklike, and I want to press Redcoyote to see what he thinks.

In the meantime I am not unvoting Ste; "zslghoui" mykonian raises a valid point I think. I think white flag mafia makes things not neatly cut and dined (?)

Anyway, seen this, a Jack fakeclaim as such a role is more likely (he might have gotten the idea then, or sought for a fakeclaim and remembered the role from the previous game). This with Jacks lurking as explaned in my previous post and knowing that that is Jacks preferred scumplay:

vote Jack

Further, I won't deny that this is OMGUS. I indeed find his vote on me a bad one, and I do think Jack's play sucks. For the people who do want to vote me, the scumtell I have committed till now is this (in stead of Jack's gut). I have had only 1 serious target. As scum, this would mean I would only need to make one fake case etc. However, Jack posts that it is gut, then comes with meta with no explanation or accusation.

[drmyshottyizsik]

@red, I'm a bit busy right now I'll post a case by at least teusday if not later today hang tight

[DavidParker]

EBWOP:

Sometimes it's best to just set aside your suspect for a few days and let the game develop, it seems that way to me anyway.

This quote is hilarious after the White Flag Mafia fiasco.

I was in no such game.

Altrfinght, herdsz the deal. Ja k an d i were recently ina game called Whikte Flag Magia wi9th Roed COyote and Drmyshottyhjiszik. n this ghame we staretged a bandwagon on drmyushottyhikszei, that ultimately resulted on is lujnch. Redxcohyt was an unerequilteed bestf riend witbh drmyhshotthyjissik anre post garme we talke about how inf redcoutote had claimed earlier thane we might have avoided two mizslynfches.

Nopwe we bhave a game - the game ONE RIGHRTE AFTER WHItEFlag - where we have THE EZXACT SAME CILAIM in similar circumstances (i., e gthe firzst major bandwagon just happens to be congfiemed towen by someboyd esle- an Redcoyhtoe downsnt thintk it[s worht commentinhg on. i find terhisd bizawrre., I';m not sayuhjting that Jack is not a cunreequitred neigrfbor but ikt do think it is mindzbolrdvgggling that redcouvotye doent find this odd at all. SAtef and dqana have been invdceredibvly scumy this game, so werhen somebo9unbdyh sayhs something that cleafdredsx one oft mu two major suspectesx it'm fgoine to liik t6o see if thewstory mkaes sense. jacdk's stoyur is not impowssible. butr is it improbsbler? io thiknyt swo.

i UNDREWSTAND MYKONIKAN'S POJKNT ABOUT MOH THERE IS BEYR EW SCENARISONS TAHT RESULT IN A SCMMMM STEF FEVREN IF HHACK IS LYING BUT IF THINK THAERE IS A PISTTIBILIYT THAT JACK ASSUMES THAQT REDCOYOTE AND I WILL BE CAUTION WHEN VONTRONTED WHTI THE UNTEQUITED NERINGHBOR CLim so I'm noiw quite qure what to thinm,k. my gut says that jakf is lyinghm, but i'm noiut sure. hjis pluarystye this game is rapikdly becom3ing unJMaklike, and iwant to press Rodscotute to see what he hitnks.

aint he meantime i am not unffotinh Stref; zslghoui mykonisn raises a vsalaind point I think awite flang magia makines things not mneatly as cuyt and drikned.

WAIT. WHAT.

I just deciphered this and agree it is very bizarre.

BUT, Jack just DENIED being in said game. So..... Someone link or explain this.