Mini 1044: Lie to Me Mafia - Game Over


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Post Post #175 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:29 am

Post by Narsis »

Nachomamma8 wrote:Narsis, are you telling me that the only think you got from your read-through of the game is that question for Esp?
It's the only thing that really caught my attention. everything this early in the game is more of a null tell to me. not saying there may or may not be some scum/town tells, but this early in the game they dont mean much to me.
You have no opinion on Shepherd's vote for Tasky?
I think it's a bit weak, but at this point it's as good a reason as any i've seen so far.
Tasky's vote for Robbnva?
Like SoW's vote on Tasky i think it's a bit weak and stretching, but at this point it's as good as reason as any.
Maddie's absense?
Don't know. doesnt exactly look like lurking scum to me, but regardless i dont like the lack of posts
The Tasky Wagon in general?
Except for SoW's vote, there isn't a single worthwhile vote that was/is on it. it's a combo of RVS/reaching for any reason to get a wagon going. nonetheless, it does bring out discussion and perhaps pressure. i think perhaps jim's vote looks more like opportunistic scum then the others.
Why didn't you answer Esp's questions, if you only had that tiny little thing to comment on?
i didnt think much of them since the game already appeared to be moving out of the RVS/RQS. if you want me to still answer i most definitely will
Comment on ALL posts that catch your attention, even those that you just have a tiny little gut feeling about and really can't explain why.
oftentimes other players may have already caught something that stuck out to me. i see no reason to repeat what they are saying. however if i do see something that i think someone missed, then i will bring it forward.
answers in bold.

@Espeonage: ok i see that. thanks for clarifying.
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Post Post #176 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:10 am

Post by Robbnva »

Nachomamma8 wrote:Robbnva, would you agree with me that I should shoot CryMeARiver this moment? If so, why? If not, why not?
Would you try to stop me if I told you I was going to shoot Tasky in my next post?
Do you believe in a Lynch All Liars policy?
Are you afraid of being lynched? Are you afraid of being shot?
Let's say I kill you now. You're allowed to make one last post before I kill you. What does that post look like?
1. No I don't at this moment because I don't really have any sort of read on him yet, his vote on me for epic mafia comment is laughable
2. Tbh I probably would not try to stop you. It's your shot do what you want, I would hope you chose right. Personally I would not have revealed my role so early and saved the shot for later if I was you.
3. Depends on what they lied about, so not all liars (mafia says I'm allowed with town kind of lie, yes. Doc or cop hinting or saying they don't have a role to stay alive at night, no)
4 & 5. No I'm not
6. You wasted you shot, go town
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Post Post #177 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:36 am

Post by Tazaro »

Shepherd_of_Wolves wrote:
Tazaro wrote: o As town, I may vote hop unless my mind is oriented properly and am very paranoid at times, and as scum I tend to vote hop less and probably tunnel.
o I like to be scum because I don't have to worry about scumhunting, I just have to find a place to park my vote and try to seem reasonable.
He really has not attempted to scum hunt. He has only tried to "seem reasonable". And, he has not vote hopped much (like he said would happen as town). He is more tunneling (like he said would happen as scum).
My way I'm playing as town this game may be different, but it's a matter of me being calmer this time around and not jumping on every scumtell I perceive.
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Post Post #178 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:54 am

Post by Tasky »

Shepherd_of_Wolves wrote:Tasky, why is Robbnva's "acceptable" reasons null-tell? If it is "acceptable", would that not mean you should consider it? Thus, making it of value, and not null. Explain yourself.
Robbnva's reason was acceptable, since I see the reasoning.I considered it. I just do not agree with it.
as I said, the scummy part was the last sentence, not the rest of the post.
Robbnva wrote:day one is all about getting info, people won't talk unless they feel they have to.

Tazaro feeling the need to ask if somebody will die if they lie is suspect.
exactly... but you ended your post with a "this is just a pressure vote, nothing serious"-like thing. so you basically erased all the pressure you could have created. therefore that line was bad and I see no reason why town would do that (read my last post, I already explained that)

*__**_*_*_*__*_*_*_*_**__**_*_*_*_*_ _*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*__*_*_*_*_**_*_
Nachomamma8 wrote:Okay. Sitting back and waiting for a scumslip isn't going to work for me, I guess. So I guess I'll come right out and claim.

I have a one-shot daykill that I am going to use today.

My daykill will reset the votecount and extend the deadline by three days.
No, I will not be nameclaiming. I also won't be giving out any town reads, or any scumreads. It's better for all of us if no one knows who I will shoot until the very end, a lesson I learned in Popcorn Mafia (I'll provide anyone the link if they need me to).

Questions are coming next.
I have to say I like what you are doing here, I really do. BUT, I do want you to use your kill
today
. should you not use it, tomorrow I will do everything I can to have you lynched.
and, additionally I want you to give out your in depth reads on your top suspects after you shoot. I want you to explain in great detail why you shot and what else you have to say about this game.
Nachomamma8 wrote:Tasky, why should I shoot Robbnva?
cause he is scum
Nachomamma8 wrote:Are you willing to be the lynch for today if he flips town?
no, why should I?
Nachomamma8 wrote:Do you tend to lie in real life?
this is none of you business
Nachomamma8 wrote:Do you think Tazaro is buddying up to you?
let me reread a bit.. .. .. .. .. .. .. no, actually not.

_*_*_*_**_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*__*_*_*_*_**__**_*__*_**__**__**__**_*__**_
Espeonage wrote:We can crop posts.
explain better, plz.
Espeonage wrote:Lie detector isn't the role. It is a flavour restriction on my role which I am assuming will run for all lightman group power roles. Thus meaning that CMAR is confirmed lightman group.
your assumption is wrong. there is nothing about a lie detector in my role.
Tazaro wrote:My way I'm playing as town this game may be different, but it's a matter of me being calmer this time around and
not jumping on every scumtell I perceive.
do that please. it would help the game
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Post Post #179 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:03 am

Post by Antihero »

*sigh* You people are insufferable.

I would rather pop my eyeballs out of their sockets with a plastic spoon than read these endless posts that ultimately tell me
nothing
.
Narsis wrote:It's the only thing that really caught my attention. everything this early in the game is more of a null tell to me. not saying there may or may not be some scum/town tells, but this early in the game they dont mean much to me.
Someone asked me what vague neutrality was earlier.
This sentence is another good example of it.
Narsis wrote:Maddie's absense?
Don't know. doesnt exactly look like lurking scum to me, but regardless i dont like the lack of posts
So, which is it? Do you not like that she's not posting, or is it not a big deal to you?
By the way, a quick search of all Maddie's post on this site reveals she hasn't posted anywhere in the past couple days.
Narsis wrote:oftentimes other players may have already caught something that stuck out to me. i see no reason to repeat what they are saying. however if i do see something that i think someone missed, then i will bring it forward.
OK.
Who do you think is the scummiest player? Summarize (concisely) why, please.
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Post Post #180 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:31 am

Post by jimfinn »

Nachomamma8 wrote:jimfinn, why do you prefer having a kill in mafia games?
What do you think of Robbnva?
Why should I shoot Tasky right now?
What is a protown reaction to a wagon being formed on you?
1. I can at times be a more gut than logic player, but it is hard to convince other players to follow a gut read. I prefer having a kill so that I can act on my gut reads.
2. I don't particularly like his posts or his reasons, but they have a more "bad-town-play" than "scum-play" feel to them.
3. You shouldn't. It's far too early for a shot or a lynch. No one has much of a strong read yet.
4A. Clarification: we learn more about people other than the person the wagon is on from the wagon, in my experience. I say that if in a 12 player game, players A,B,C, and D wagon player E and players G and J defend him, we learn far more about A,B,C,D,G, and J than we do about E.
4B. A player with a wagon being formed on him (assuming some logical explanation for the votes) ought to explain his intention in the posts for which he is being wagoned. He should also continue to scumhunt as normal. He should only claim at L-1, claim truthfully, and (if and only if it is Day 1) encourage the town to lynch him if he is a VT (though he should not self-hammer - town should pretty much never self-hammer except in extraordinary circumstances). I refer to this as Hohum's Theory (after the player who explained it to me). Basically, it says that if there are 12 players in the game lettered A through J and there are exactly three scum (call them A,B,C) and three PRs(D,E,F) and six VTs (G-J) and G claims VT on D1 at L-1; the town chooses to lynch another player who happens to also flip VT. Now the scum have a 3/7 chance of hitting a PR with the NK. If they had lynched G, the scum would only have a 3/8 chance of hitting a PR.
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http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15354
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Post Post #181 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:01 pm

Post by Shepherd_of_Wolves »

I have reread Tazaro in ISO. All references are ISO of Tazaro. Here is my case on him.

(A) Post 13 he states he can
Guarantee
that scum is on the TASKY wagon. Well, the only players who can guarantee any alignment are mafia. He could only know one is on, if he is partners with them. Related, to this post is 14. It is an EBWOP. I do not like this phrase he uses, " Either way you look at it". This is said with conviction. Again, as though he really knows. And, you better listen to him.
But, does he explain any reason for this knowledge? NO.
It is a scumtell to have unreasoned confidence. He deliberately wants to protect TASKY, without stated cause. That is highly indicative of secret connection unknown to town.

(B) Post 7 He loves being scum so he can be devious. He describes what should be expected from HIM as "town", and as "scum". But, in post 23 and 24 he dismisses the standarded he set up by stating: he is bad at playing and he is a "calmer". He set up his explanation within this game by his answers in post 7. So, for him to have a change in heart when
under scrutiny
is very convenient. He is denying that he is following the pattern about his play that he gave us.

Every time a player claims, to be a bad player as a defense, it is scummy. Every time, I have seen it used, it really means that they are bad at "acting town". So, he has played his scum role poorly, and now he knows he is in jeopardy and he has jeopardized TASKY too. Two mafia players caught early in the game.

(C) In post 24 he states he is not jumping to every scumtell he perceives. This is more likely due to the fact he is not really "looking" for scumtells, than to due to being a "calm town" player. He was not "calm" when I voted for TASKY. In fact he was furious. He said:

"
Either way you look at it
, SOW either played a crummy vote on Tasky due to being scum or needs to be pressured to take it off of Tasky". That is not calm. He wants me to be pressured to UNVOTE. Not pressured to slip up in scumminess. No, that is not his focus. He wants me to UNVOTE. Why? Because he is frantic to save TASKY. He did not complain about anyone else voting for him. Just me. Why? Likely because my reason for voting struck at him. It was not RV, like others.

(D) He is looking for a place to appear "reasonable". He just does not want to draw too much attention to himself. He has not justified his vote on me. His only reason was:
Tazaro wrote:*Regaining my most prolific poster title.*
jimfinn wrote:What do you mean by Vague neutrality? Also, why is SoW's vote so terrible? It seems like a "you're not doing what we want so i vote you" type vote, which could feasibly be used by a town player trying to push a specific strategy.
SOW's vote IS terrible. In fact, he's my scumpick. Either way you look at it, SOW either played a crummy vote on Tasky due to being scum or
needs to be pressured to take it off of Tasky
. I for one see scumminess as a very viable possibility.
Shepherd of Wolves
Read that again, and again. Either I was A or B. I was scum, or I was needing pressure to UNVOTE.
Ridiculous! Why do I need to be pressured to UNVOTE Tasky? Why does that have anything to do with me being scummy. He makes no real case or explanation why my vote even hinted at being scummy. His primary focus was to pressure me to UNVOTE.

(E) Why does Tazaro attack my vote on TASKY as terrible? Why does he still vote me? He has no reason to be voting for me. He has not stated any reason. So, I fulfilled his desire to UNVOTE. But, he is just trying to appear "reasonable". He does not feel the need to explain his vote. In fact, he is not even trying to recruit votes onto me. Why not? It is because he is scum, only trying to appear "reasonable". He is not jumping on to ANY scumtell. He cannot find a case. That is because he is attempting to frame someone, not hunt them.

(F) He mentions or refers to TASKY in posts 12, 13, 14, 15, & 17. That represents 20% of his 24 total posts. Why the hyper-focus? Defending him. Protecting him. Accommodating him. Never questioning him.

(G) If there is a TASKY connection (which I know there is) the next thing to do is see how much attention TASKY gives TAZARO.

TASKY ISO

Tasky mentions TAZARO in posts 1, 2, 5, 10, & 11. This represents 50% of his posts. All of them Defending, supporting, and never questioning Taz.

(H) Who are the 2 people voting me. Together, no it can't be. It is TASKY and TAZARO. What a team!

(I) TASKY's first post to vote, he straight out tells the truth. TAZARO is SCUM. Tasky knows, and is attempting to "separate" himself.
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Post Post #182 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:20 pm

Post by Espeonage »

@ Tasky. That just means you aren't one of the 4 people who are the Lightman group. See this is why people need to know the theme. The Lightman group is the group of people who are the deception experts. If you are one of those roles then you should have a lie detection condition on your role.

@ Nacho: I will get to those unanswered questions when I get a free mom,ent.
Don't @ me.
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Post Post #183 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:54 pm

Post by Narsis »

Antihero wrote:*sigh* You people are insufferable.

I would rather pop my eyeballs out of their sockets with a plastic spoon than read these endless posts that ultimately tell me
nothing
.
Narsis wrote:It's the only thing that really caught my attention. everything this early in the game is more of a null tell to me. not saying there may or may not be some scum/town tells, but this early in the game they dont mean much to me.
Someone asked me what vague neutrality was earlier.
This sentence is another good example of it.
indeed it is vague neutrality. but that's because i am neutral at this point in time. :P or rather, it's usually not until day 2 that who i think is scum and/or town solidifies in my mind.

Narsis wrote:Maddie's absense?
Don't know. doesnt exactly look like lurking scum to me, but regardless i dont like the lack of posts
So, which is it? Do you not like that she's not posting, or is it not a big deal to you?
By the way, a quick search of all Maddie's post on this site reveals she hasn't posted anywhere in the past couple days.
the fact that she hasn't posted anywhere on the site, is why it doesnt look like lurking scum to me. but i dont like the lack of posts either. i like players in the game to be active and contributing.

Narsis wrote:oftentimes other players may have already caught something that stuck out to me. i see no reason to repeat what they are saying. however if i do see something that i think someone missed, then i will bring it forward.
OK.
Who do you think is the scummiest player? Summarize (concisely) why, please.
if i had to pick a scummiest now i would say Tazaro based on SoW's case.
@Espeonage: just cause you are a member of the lightman group and have a lie detection condition doesnt mean all 4 have it.
Record:
Town: 1W/3L

Mafia: 1W/0L

Other: 0W/0L
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Post Post #184 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:28 pm

Post by Robbnva »

so going back between tasky and tazaro, this is quite interesting. I vote tazaro so his buddy tasky does the OMGUS voting and seems to know 100% without a shadow of a doubt that I am scum :roll:

Tasky seems to do less of the actually buddying with Tazaro, if you go back Tazaro seems to mention Tasky more in his posts, but the vote on me because I vote Tazaro definitly needs to be looked into.

and such a lame reason, seriously you agree with the putting pressure on people but vote me cause I posted that is why I am voting you? :roll:
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Post Post #185 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:33 pm

Post by Tazaro »

Boy, is Shepherd making a career out of attacking or what
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Post Post #186 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:34 pm

Post by Tazaro »

ebwop: attacking ME or what. <<Nightposting does not guarantee good sentences>>
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Post Post #187 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:43 pm

Post by Shepherd_of_Wolves »

If you invalidate my claims with plausible evidence or explanation I would be willing to reevaluate my stance. But, currently, my career is to detect scum, and I feel my reasons have merit.
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Post Post #188 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:03 pm

Post by Antihero »

*exasperated* :igmeou:

Can SOMEONE please read Narsis and jimfinn's posts and tell me I'm not crazy?
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Post Post #189 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:05 pm

Post by Tasky »

Espeonage wrote:@ Tasky. That just means you aren't one of the 4 people who are the Lightman group. See this is why people need to know the theme. The Lightman group is the group of people who are the deception experts. If you are one of those roles then you should have a lie detection condition on your role.
I
do
know the theme. and I
am
in the Lightman Group. and I
do not
have a lie detection thing.

@everybody else: I will post on everything else later
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Post Post #190 (ISO) » Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:53 pm

Post by Robbnva »

so tasky is claiming being part of the lightman group, I don't get why people put themselves out there that early :(
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Post Post #191 (ISO) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:00 am

Post by Tazaro »

antihero, about Narsis, the only thing I have to say about him is that he mentioned one thing while describing the other things as null.
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Post Post #192 (ISO) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:09 am

Post by Tazaro »

Tazaro wrote:antihero, about Narsis, the only thing I have to say about him is that he mentioned one thing while describing the other things as null.
So I don't particularly see that as scummy
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Maybe Subservience to Protocol isn't tantamount to Solution to Problem ...
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Tell me, O Karen,
Do you feel better
After getting your pound of flesh?
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Post Post #193 (ISO) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:47 am

Post by Shepherd_of_Wolves »

Tazaro

(1) Why do you not address any of my points?
(2) Why were you so intent on me UNVOTING?
(3) Why was pressure to get me to UNVOTE the alternative to me being scum? As you said, He is scum OR we need to pressure him to UNVOTE.
(4) Why are you absolutely not scum hunting? You have not asked any questions. You have not laid down a case on me, were you have your vote.
(5) When can we expect that you will scum hunt?
(6) What bothers you most about my case against you?
(7) Who do you think is the highest lynch candidate for Day 1? And, specify why they should be lynched.
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Post Post #194 (ISO) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:58 am

Post by Shepherd_of_Wolves »

Everyone else

I think we should not be too hasty to lynch too soon before deadline. But, I want to hear everyones opinion.
(1) Why should we not lynch Tazaro for Day 1?
(2) Who should be lynched instead, and WHY?
(3) What do you think about TAZARO being so insistent that I needed to be pressured UNVOTE Tasky? See post #104.
(4) What do you think about the fact that TAZARO has not changed his vote, nor laid down a case against me, nor attempted to pursue other players with questions or charges?
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Post Post #195 (ISO) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:05 am

Post by Tazaro »

Tunneling me HARDCORE is a pretty good reason for me to keep my vote on you.
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Post Post #196 (ISO) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:21 am

Post by ZeroFang »

Tazaro wrote:Tunneling me HARDCORE is a pretty good reason for me to keep my vote on you.
LOL are you kidding me? Maybe recently, but he's made a lot of different cases. You just happen to be his latest.
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Post Post #197 (ISO) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:03 pm

Post by Tazaro »

ZeroFang wrote:
Tazaro wrote:Tunneling me HARDCORE is a pretty good reason for me to keep my vote on you.
LOL are you kidding me? Maybe recently, but he's made a lot of different cases. You just happen to be his latest.
Why are you speaking for him, and who did he make a case on besides Tasky and me.
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Maybe Subservience to Protocol isn't tantamount to Solution to Problem ...
"A little bit of yourself goes a long way"
Blue paint strokes of sadness that leave a trace of meaningfulness
Tell me, O Karen,
Do you feel better
After getting your pound of flesh?
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Antihero
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Post Post #198 (ISO) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:03 pm

Post by Antihero »

Shepherd_of_Wolves wrote:Everyone else

I think we should not be too hasty to lynch too soon before deadline. But, I want to hear everyones opinion.
(1) Why should we not lynch Tazaro for Day 1?
Because there are people acting scummier.

(2) Who should be lynched instead, and WHY?
jimfinn and Narsis are two good picks.

(3) What do you think about TAZARO being so insistent that I needed to be pressured UNVOTE Tasky? See post #104.
I don't see the significance of this, or the implications it has for Tazaro's alignment.

(4) What do you think about the fact that TAZARO has not changed his vote, nor laid down a case against me, nor attempted to pursue other players with questions or charges?
He's the only player who read Narsis and told me what he thinks, so this question is kind of stupid to me.
The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success.
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Post Post #199 (ISO) » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:16 pm

Post by Narsis »

Shepherd_of_Wolves wrote:Everyone else

I think we should not be too hasty to lynch too soon before deadline. But, I want to hear everyones opinion.
(1) Why should we not lynch Tazaro for Day 1?
never said we shouldn't not lynch him. i just havent seen a good enough reason posted by anyone for a lynch as of yet

(2) Who should be lynched instead, and WHY?
whoever, if anyone, ends up being scummier as the day gets closer to deadline

(3) What do you think about TAZARO being so insistent that I needed to be pressured UNVOTE Tasky? See post #104.
i think it's him defending Tasky in a fairly poor manner.

(4) What do you think about the fact that TAZARO has not changed his vote, nor laid down a case against me, nor attempted to pursue other players with questions or charges?
well he did make a comment on me...but overall his lack/avoidance of scumhunting isn't helping his case and is making me more suspicious of him
Record:
Town: 1W/3L

Mafia: 1W/0L

Other: 0W/0L

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