Mafia 1013 - Prozacs Basic Theme - Game has ENDED

[Anon]

Im even being a nicer guy and asking for a majority. Also I think you are the arsonist.

Obligatory "Why?" comment here. Show me why, show the rest of the town why for that matter. I can't wait.

After BB called you the arsonist for the first time you changed dramatically your "townie" playstyle and have regained the playstyle/meta I remember from you (short posts, lurking,). But the most important thing is that you have stopped pretending you are looking for scum since that point. When was the last time you had a supect? Since I trust BB, then you cant be mafia, so yeah, you are the arsonist.

[Flameaxe]

Im even being a nicer guy and asking for a majority. Also I think you are the arsonist.

Obligatory "Why?" comment here. Show me why, show the rest of the town why for that matter. I can't wait.

After BB called you the arsonist for the first time you changed dramatically your "townie" playstyle and have regained the playstyle/meta I remember from you (short posts, lurking,). But the most important thing is that you have stopped pretending you are looking for scum since that point. When was the last time you had a supect? Since I trust BB, then you cant be mafia, so yeah, you are the arsonist.

But if I were the arsonist, what motive would I have for not looking for scum at this point? If I were the arsonist, I would be unable to win if the mafia were still around. It's safe to say this reasoning is flawed at best. The last I checked, you were pushing (day one) that the fact that I wasn't playing my original meta was showing of me being scum, and now that I've "gone back to that meta", I'm scum. Good to see some lose/lose tunnelvision. It makes me all tingly inside.

I'll end with another question for you, that ties into my question in the first paragraph. What

exactly

do you make of this claimed playstyle change? (Accompanying questions: What reason do I have to change this playstyle? How do I benefit from this claimed playstyle change? If I were the arsonist, why would I be "pretending" to find scum?) Regarding that last question: it almost seems as if you aren't even sold on me being the arsonist yet. Some of your points just do not make sense from a third-party. Unless of course you think my role is "Arsonist who really doesn't want to win", which is just plain silly. Pretending to find scum? Really? And you think I'm the arsonist. You better get your logic straight, and quick.

As far as I can see, all you're doing at this point is parroting Berry. Use your reply to this post to change that opinion of you, or not. I really don't know with you at this point.

Budja's next post should have flavor. While I'm most inclined to vote for Budja at this point, I will wait until Berry/Conf flavor claim too. Might as well get it all out there at this point.

[Porochaz]

Lunch time, as you are currently discussing in the hotel, the fridge has been raided and the town were all having some scotch broth soup. It was extremely tasty and you all wolfed it down. However as Joseph Reeves drank his last dribble, he noticed as horribly bitter taste. Weird in what is usually quite a savoury filling dish. Undetered by this weird sensation he wiped his mouth with his napkin to notice a spot of blood. He finds he is wheezing heavily and the room starts to spin. He cough's again and more blood starts spewing out of his mouth. Until suddenly it all stops and Joseph Reeves thumps head first into his bowl.

Flameaxe - Joseph Reeves - Vanilla Townie - Poisoned Day 3

Day continues, with 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

[Flameaxe]

Bah!

[StrangerCoug]

Well, we're in 3:2:1 now. We still need to treat this with caution as we still cannot afford either a mislynch or a no lynch.

UNVOTE: Anon

[Budja]

Claim: Arsonist

@scum, I am not killing tonight. You get to WIFOM Blackberry. Kill me and you get lynched tomorrow. Kill town and you have a chance.
@town, I'm 90% sure Anon and Xvart are the scum. Help me lynch one or you lose.
VOTE: Xvart

[Confucius]

I am Michael Murphy. I was wrongly accused of medical malpractice in the past, so I decided to move to a new town with my wife, Charlotte, to start a family.

At this point I buy Blackberry’s and StrangerCoug’s abilities. I really have to wonder how this game is supposed to be balanced at this point.

StrangerCoug, can you

use

items you steal? I have to say, this “poison” kill makes me wonder if you used the syringe you stole from me, or something.

Pre-Post Edit: Budja, please full-claim.

[Confucius]

Here’s my thought process so far. I really have no clue what to think about the Poison kill at this point.

I believe StrangerCoug’s ability (given Flameaxe’s claim). If StrangerCoug is scum, then we have no investigative roles. Maybe this is possible, but doing that in a game with so many kills is just rough. Why give

scum

a Thief role when the

Town

doesn’t have any investigative roles? Why let scum “hunt for power roles” at all when the Town practically does not have any power roles if StrangerCoug is scum? You might as well write the game off as a Town loss from the get-go.

If Blackberry is scum, then the same logic applies. How the Hell is a Town with a couple protective roles and a Thief supposed to lynch scum when the few roles it

does

have are so easily screwed with (especially since

two

targets each night become scrambled)?

That really does leave Anon, xvart, and Budja. Budja could still be Mafia at this point trying to bluff his way out of the Day, but he is at least confirmed scum.

Of all the claims, I disbelieve Anon’s the most. First, because it is not an ability that can be switched by a Bus Driver, and second, the Town already has two protective roles (Firefighter and Doctor).

If somebody is going to counter-claim Budja, do so now or forever hold your peace. If somebody tries to claim Arsonist

later

without counter-claiming

now

, I will not believe you.

[StrangerCoug]

At this point I buy Blackberry’s and StrangerCoug’s abilities. I really have to wonder how this game is supposed to be balanced at this point.

StrangerCoug, can you

use

items you steal? I have to say, this “poison” kill makes me wonder if you used the syringe you stole from me, or something.

It doesn't say, but my understanding of the role is no.

[xvart]

I have trouble thinking Coug-scum as thief is a town role (wiki).

I don't understand this; but I'm guessing it is more in my comprehension (like reading a sentence with multiple double negatives).

Ah! Yes, I remember you, Ben. How has school been for you?

Well... I'm failing math... But what I really meant was did your role pm tell you anything about having a son?

Anon's claim, if true, may throw a lot of what I thought out the window regarding Confucius and the possible night kill last night.

Since I trust BB, then you cant be mafia, so yeah, you are the arsonist.

Can you explain to me why you trust BB? Or give me a post number where you stated the same earlier?

Claim: Arsonist

@scum, I am not killing tonight. You get to WIFOM Blackberry. Kill me and you get lynched tomorrow. Kill town and you have a chance.
@town, I'm 90% sure Anon and Xvart are the scum. Help me lynch one or you lose.
VOTE: Xvart

I've never played in a game where an anti-town faction has claimed because it was in their best interest, so this is uncharted territory for me. I can see why Budja claimed, but I'm having a hard time determining the best course of action. It seems to me that if you lead a lynch on town (which you are trying to do now) it will put us at 2T: 2M: 1A going into night you will have to kill because then the mafia will kill you then it is 2:2 tomorrow (with your no kill) with a guaranteed win for the mafia. I don't see how we can trust you not to kill; but I also see how we have to lynch scum today, leaving it as 3:1:1, scum killing town (and you not killing) leaving it at the start of day tomorrow as 2:1:1, then town lynches either scum or you it is 2:1 going into night and either scum faction will then win with the NK or burn that night (leaving it as 1:1 the next day, which is also a loss for the town). Am I forgetting any scenario? This obviously doesn't consider any doctor saves or commuter saves so we should consider that, too.

Regardless, I think it might be prudent to remove your vote for the time being as I know lynching me is not in your best interest (as outlined above).

StrangerCoug, can you

use

items you steal? I have to say, this “poison” kill makes me wonder if you used the syringe you stole from me, or something.

Does your flavor indicate something about a poison syringe? The fact that you were accused of medical malpractice makes me wonder if something strange is going on here.

If Blackberry is scum, then the same logic applies. How the Hell is a Town with a couple protective roles and a Thief supposed to lynch scum when the few roles it

does

have are so easily screwed with (especially since

two

targets each night become scrambled)?

Maybe SC's ability is not necessarily an information role as it is a possible vig. If there are a few roles out there that have flavored weapons that could be turned around and used as a kill it wouldn't matter if the roles were necessarily bus driven. SC could have stolen a poisoned syringe from you and used that on our leading suspect in an attempt to get the town a leg up today. The same might be true if he stole a gun or something from the scum.

Of all the claims, I disbelieve Anon’s the most. First, because it is not an ability that can be switched by a Bus Driver, and second, the Town already has two protective roles (Firefighter and Doctor).

But they really aren't two protective roles. Basically together they are one full fledged doctor. You can't save from the arsonist and the firefighter presumably can't save against night kills.

xvart.

[Anon]

I believe StrangerCoug’s ability (given Flameaxe’s claim). If StrangerCoug is scum, then we have no investigative roles. Maybe this is possible, but doing that in a game with so many kills is just rough. Why give

scum

a Thief role when the

Town

doesn’t have any investigative roles? Why let scum “hunt for power roles” at all when the Town practically does not have any power roles if StrangerCoug is scum? You might as well write the game off as a Town loss from the get-go.

Eh, no. First, not all games have investigative roles. Second, still in the drawing board, but Id say that an investigative on this game would be kinda imba, since a)we have both doc and a firefighter (potential protection-investigation combo); b)we are facing a very likely 2-1-9 setup, which means that both the mafia and the arsonist need more nights to win. More nights/more investigations/less odds of winning. and c)there is a bus driver. (seeb below).

In the other hand, a scum rolecop is the boost a small scumteam could have to increase their chances of winning, specially in a context of at least another antitown faction. And Im not even talking about the poison kill.

If Blackberry is scum, then the same logic applies. How the Hell is a Town with a couple protective roles and a Thief supposed to lynch scum when the few roles it

does

have are so easily screwed with (especially since

two

targets each night become scrambled)?

I think this is also another reason to think that the investigative ability does not belong to town. A simple scrambled result on an investigation can lead to a series of unfortunate events.

Budja could still be Mafia at this point trying to bluff his way out of the Day, but he is at least confirmed scum.

I agree with this. Im even leaning to think Budja is bluffing at this point. Need to reread if his night choices make sense with he being an arsonist.

Of all the claims, I disbelieve Anon’s the most. First, because it is not an ability that can be switched by a Bus Driver, and second, the Town already has two protective roles (Firefighter and Doctor).

Bus Driver doesnt switch abilities. Bus Driver switches targets. http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Bus_Driver. I dont target.

I dont think there is a problem in having a firefighter, a doctor and a commuter. The first two are not even 100% effective against all the kills. Also, my role doesnt work on consecutive nights. And yeah, poison

[Anon]

Does your flavor indicate something about a poison syringe? The fact that you were accused of medical malpractice makes me wonder if something strange is going on here.

This.

Also, (wifom tags), I was the last one in claiming. If I were scum, knowing that there were already two protection roles, I could have claimed any other thing besides commuter. (wifom tags)

People who havent claimed flavor should do it asap.

[StrangerCoug]

Ah! Yes, I remember you, Ben. How has school been for you?

Well... I'm failing math... But what I really meant was did your role pm tell you anything about having a son?

Yes, it does. I couldn't find a neat way to incorporate you.

StrangerCoug, can you

use

items you steal? I have to say, this “poison” kill makes me wonder if you used the syringe you stole from me, or something.

Does your flavor indicate something about a poison syringe? The fact that you were accused of medical malpractice makes me wonder if something strange is going on here.

No, there is no mention of a poison syringe in my role PM.

[Anon]

Since I trust BB, then you cant be mafia, so yeah, you are the arsonist.

Can you explain to me why you trust BB? Or give me a post number where you stated the same earlier?.

Forgot this.

Nice and detailed post tomorrow.

tl, dr: I think its pretty obvious BB is town for what he is doing. Elaborating and faking that secrecy and strategy as scum is really really hard, and no offense, I dont think berry is capable of doing that. This of course throws my mallow VI read to the garbage and makes me reeavalute fishy/confucious in this new context. (After a quick skim, I dislike how he quickly dismisses my theory of BB being town for the emotional outburst)

Despite of BB's stupidity, I still think he is town (the gambit is that hard to implement if he is scum and it reeks of strong sincerity).

[Budja]

@xvart, If its not 2-1-9, it would be game over already.

[Budja]

Also, I obv. am trying to kill scum, if you are town convince me of your scumteam of choice.

[Confucius]

I have nothing to do with "poison." As I said earlier, I was

falsely

accused of medical malpractice, and my role PM does not even go into the details.

I immediately realized that upon seeing the "poison" kill that my role would look suspicious, especially after divulging my "secret." A syringe in the hands of somebody who should not have it (StrangerCoug) seemed like one possible explanation.

Anon, you made my point for me: your ability does not target, so it is not affected by the Bus Driver ability.

I think the Bus Driver ability practically

has

to be Town in order for this game to have any semblance of balance. If we have a scum Bus Driver, scum can easily dance around Doctor protections. Example: scum correctly predict that I am going to protect X, but they still want to kill X. Hence, they Bus Drive Players X and Y while targeting Y for the kill. By doing so, I instead protect Y while the scum kill X (the player I tried to protect). That would be ridiculously unbalanced.

The only way I think Blackberry could be scum after the claims we have had is if he is scum with StrangerCoug and they made a ridiculously elaborate plot to convince us of the existence of a Bus Driver role. Even in that case, StrangerCoug would still have to actually have some sort of investigative role in order to know that Flameaxe would carry a "pint of beer" on his person. I have actually co-modded a game where the Town was made up of a various protective roles, but even if I believe your role-claim, I think the Town would be at a serious disadvantage in the context of this game.

Obvious WIFOM Question

: Why would the Mod include a role to protect against Arsonist kills, but not a role to protect against Mafia kills? Serial Killers / Arsonists have a rough time as it is, and it would be a poor Mod who includes a role to specifically combat the Arsonist without including a role to specifically combat the Mafia. I claimed before about six other players, and the fact that I have not been counterclaimed is, I think, pretty heavy weight to show I am telling the truth.

~

Budja, please explain your night choices.

[Budja]

Pretty simple. I was trying to hit scum.

Coug-scum would be unlikely, as I said before thief is a pro-town role and I find it hard to believe that you would only have protection roles.

[xvart]

Also, (wifom tags), I was the last one in claiming. If I were scum, knowing that there were already two protection roles, I could have claimed any other thing besides commuter. (wifom tags)

My biggest concern here is that there is no practical way to confirm your role. I had you and Confucius cleared as probable town until you claimed.

@xvart, If its not 2-1-9, it would be game over already.

My scenarios are written under the assumption that it is 2:1:9.

Also, I obv. am trying to kill scum, if you are town convince me of your scumteam of choice.

I originally thought that StrangerCoug, Blackberry, Flameaxe, and you had at least two of the scum in there. You are the arsonist, flameaxe was town, and now Anon is not cleared by the doctor protection; so I'm now leaning StrangerCoug, Blackberry, and Anon having the two scum in that group. I haven't quite worked out the relationships/interactions and have to consider the balance issue that Confucius suggested about the bus driver.

I immediately realized that upon seeing the "poison" kill that my role would look suspicious, especially after divulging my "secret." A syringe in the hands of somebody who should not have it (StrangerCoug) seemed like one possible explanation.

I think the poison has to have been by a townie. A daykill would alleviate the bus driven concerns and make sure the town killed whom was targeted. Also, it seems like town timing to try and kill Flameaxe as likely scum to give the town an advantage with another lynch before nightfall.

Pretty simple. I was trying to hit scum.

Coug-scum would be unlikely, as I said before thief is a pro-town role and I find it hard to believe that you would only have protection roles.

You thought Mitsuru was scum? Why?

xvart.

[Confucius]

xvart, if you are claiming the poison kill, please do so in your next post.

[xvart]

I had nothing to do with the poison kill. You're talking about balance, and from what I see balance wise it seems to fit as a town move and town role. All I'm really saying is I don't see the arsonist also specializing in poison, nor do I see the scum having a NK and poison ability; but I can also see the hesitation in claiming since the target was town and we are now in quite the pickle. I'm not ready to suggest that the poisoner claim since if the poisoner has another shot we might need it tomorrow but in my eyes it would clear someone as town.

xvart.

[Blackberry]

I'm really tired. Just got done moving into my new apartment. I literally only read the past two/three posts. Poisoner: The purpose of the poisoner is that their kill takes effect at a later date. In other words: someone could have poisoned Flameaxe last nigth, and he dies Mid-day today. If you've noticed, it says Day three AND A HALF. If it was a day-kill, it wouldn't say AND A HALF. That specific phrase suggests it is part of a role. Also, reading Poisoner, as I believe I've mentioned, it states that if the mafia Poisoner performs the kill, the poison is used/the target dies at a later date. Explaining why no one died last night at the hands of the mafia.

Also, I don't think a real Arsonist would Counterclaim at this point. Also, I don't see a problem in killing a claimed arsonist either:
* If we kill arsonist, there's one mafia kill tonight. Confic will protect either me or Stranger (I assume). I will therefore either bus either me or Confuc with one of the remaining scum. Mathematically, we have a 66% chance of protecting correctly. Thus, next day occurs and we outnumber scum 3 to 2.
* If we kill scum claiming arsonist, it doesn't hurt us. One down, two to go. We still protect the same people, good chance all or atleast 2 survive till tomorrow.
* Also, Doctor can only protect from mafia kills, whereas Arsonist can still kill those people. Just saying.

Xvart is who I want to lynch.

Also, we could consider No Lynch. If we did this and went to night and Arsonist kills a townie, it's a guaranteed loss for the arsonist, because

if we wake up with 2 mafia, 1 arsonist, and 2 townies

, no one has any idea who the REAL arsonsit is, except the arsonist, and we may mistakenly lynch him. The arsonist has no choice but to kill a mafia in this scenario. But I think No Lynch is probably bad, Xvart = good kill. =D

Night!

[xvart]

I'm really tired. Just got done moving into my new apartment. I literally only read the past two/three posts. Poisoner: The purpose of the poisoner is that their kill takes effect at a later date. In other words: someone could have poisoned Flameaxe last nigth, and he dies Mid-day today. If you've noticed, it says Day three AND A HALF. If it was a day-kill, it wouldn't say AND A HALF. That specific phrase suggests it is part of a role. Also, reading Poisoner, as I believe I've mentioned, it states that if the mafia Poisoner performs the kill, the poison is used/the target dies at a later date. Explaining why no one died last night at the hands of the mafia.

What? It says poisoned day 3:

Flameaxe - Joseph Reeves - Vanilla Townie - Poisoned Day 3

Also, why haven't you claimed flavor while asking everyone else to? What is your secret?

xvart.

[StrangerCoug]

Mafia poisoner makes the best sense to me right now. I know what I am, Budja claimed arsonist, I still like Anon-scum, I have every reason to believe Confucius, and Flameaxe-town confirms Blackberry, so xvart is PoE'd.

[Blackberry]

Xvart, the title got changed to Day Three and a Half. And if you look up the role of Poisoner, it is a mafia role that takes affect at a later time.

-----

If anyone looks at Xvart's posts, all he does is ask non-relevant questions. He also tries to use the info he gets to turn it around on the person. This is why I want to lynch him ^_^.

Does your flavor indicate something about a poison syringe? The fact that you were accused of medical malpractice makes me wonder if something strange is going on here.

My secret is that I don't like living in the village anymore, I've lived here for a decently long time and the place has changed too much. But I can't leave because I am too old. I want to spend as much time away from the village, so I got the job of a bus driver and I drive people between the highlands (?) and city.

Also, my husband appears not to be in the setup.

----

Also, there is nothing in my

storyline

that would suggest what a thief would steal from me. Thus, leaving me to believe that someone would get something based off of my role. I don't know why I thought it was relevant, just throwing it out there.

----

Actually, Budja, what is your character's name?

Vote: Xvart

----

Just throwing this out there. I have considered claiming SK as scum I believe. But since no one is CCing, Anon and Xvart are pretty much scum-confirmed, as Confucius and Stranger have cleared themselves in my opinion.