Newbie 993 - Game Over!

[Chimp Pants]

@Thian: I'm not interested in you claiming until there's a chance for a lynch. We have over a week until the deadline. That's plenty of time

if the activity levels pick up

.

@Mysterio:

You didn't even bother unvoting, which says to me you never had any intention of voting until Shotty came around and gave you an easy target to finally vote for.

. You kept a vote on a player that wasn't in the game and never bothered to unvote when that fact was pointed out to you.

How would unvoting have made Thian seem less scummy?

[Thian]

Mysterio, you are also pointing a finger on the fact that I questioned Trachimbrod on Day one and my vote wasn't placed on him and that when Shotty came around that it was opportunistic of me.

You were quite opportunistic yourself, you had your vote on leech. Instead of continuing the debate with Leech, which Leech handled himself very well. You saw an easy way out of the debate by switching votes to hammer shotty.

What are your thoughts on Leech now Mysterio? You have had quite the discussion with him on day one its seemed to disolve now, what happened from day one until now that you both are not at each other?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official Vote Count

Thian - 2 (Chimp Pants, Mysterio)
Chimp Pants - 1 (Kirbyoshi)
Kirbyoshi - 1 (Leech)
Mysterio - 1 (Thian)

Not Voting - 2 (Applefarmer, startransmission)

4 to Lynch.

Click for Deadline

[Leech]

I simply had a vibe, then I went back and examined Hindu's voting pattern. The only thing I saw on anybody from that is that Hindu voted for Chimp for what at first was no reason. He then went back and justified it by saying that he was "waiting for someone to say Chimp Pants was obvtown." This was Hindu's only vote that was even mildly serious. The only possible explanation would be that Hindu had a hunch that CP was scum, so he voted him, Chimp thought it was too risky, so he killed Hindu.

Really? At this phase of the game you still only have gut reads? Also the last part of that is pure wifom. Considering Hindu was active lurking, which even you acknowledged, why would scum fear the pressure that he was applying? Scum in games typically kill the most town looking player, or a player to frame another. You very rarely see a case where they kill off the largest threat to them, as it reflects poorly. You have been in enough games that you should understand that concept. The only time I see scum kill their "threats" comes from an extremely experienced team that can ride the wifom successfuly. This almost never happens in newbies.

1. Erm, could you pull out specific posts? Not everything in that range is doing those things.
2. So I couldn't put a name to what Hindu was doing that was scummy. Am I scummy for that? Or did I just forget the name for a scumtell?
3. Wrong. Pointing out a fallacy.
4. Wrong. Asking clarification.
5. Sympathy is not AtE. Also, the game of Mafia takes balls. If you have none, you should not sign up for a game.
6. Or I was trying to generate discussion.
7. I was trying to get a feel for his experience level. How could you not see that?

1. Yes, all of them are.
2. You are scummy for it for the reason I mentioned previous. You can't remember the term "active lurking" but you're fully aware of the "Too Townie to be Scum" fallacy?
3. You pointed out the "Too Townie to be scum" fallacy, yes. However you just explained what it was, and left it at that. That is the definition if IIoA.
4. You were asking for clarification on fluff. Whether or not someone posted something twice will not help us find scum. I can't believe you are arguing this.
5. Sympathy is an AtE.
6. You were trying to generate discussion that only helps scum.
7. You are focusing on things that aren't detrimental to the game. How is his experience level going to help you, or anyone else, find scum in this game? Why not actually scumhunt instead of asking pointless questions? He could answer you, and the only thing that will come of it is: "Hmm, so he's kind of experienced." Which won't change the events in this thread, or your perspective of them. You are intentionally stalling and distracting from actively trying to find scum.

[Thian]

Applefarmer, please come around. Thanks.

[Thian]

Saw you log in but not type anything and its been a while since you posted.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Replacing Applefarmer for failing to respond to a prod.

[Kirbyoshi]

Leech, I have a feeling that alot of those points are going to turn into a "NO U" type of argument. I will respond to the ones that need a response though:

2. Forgetfulness is not a scumtell.
3. I was pointing out a fallacy so Newbies stay away from it. It's a very easy fallacy to commit as town.
4. You obviously did not read the context. One of Thian's posts confused me, so I asked him what it meant. Heck, that context is even in the same post. How did you miss it?
7. Why would I focus on something that's detrimental to the game? You're not making sense. And yes, I do view things through a different perspective depending on the experience level of the player.

[Leech]

@Kirby:

2. It is when it's not something you'd actually forget.

3. You simply explained a fallacy, you didn't use it to advance the game.

4. I did read the context. My point, again, is that it was fluff. You are deliberately commenting on things that do not matter to remain active.

7. Congrats, you found a typo. That should have read "you are commenting on things that aren't significant to the game". Guess I got two thoughts crossed there, as doing what you are doing is detrimental to the game.

Also, you are clearly lying. Just because someone says "I played X amount of games" will not influence your perspective on their plays in this game. You would have to read the games in order to achieve that reaction. Having a simple number would only result in a false idea of how a player who's played that number of games would play. Shotty is a good example of this. He's played a lot of games but he's not a better player for it. You'd actually have to read the games to get information from that. (You obviously wouldn't go to that trouble considering you won't even explain your actions here, reading games OTHER than this while feeling like you are dying, is completely out of the question.) Which, again, just shows that you aren't scumhunting or trying to progress this game, you are just asking questions that will lead no where in an attempt to look like you are being helpful, while being no help whatsoever.

As a footnote: I'm writing this at nearly 10am having been up well over 30 hours. There may be typos in this post, that I skimmed over on my proofread.

[Mysterio]

Mysterio, you are also pointing a finger on the fact that I questioned Trachimbrod on Day one and my vote wasn't placed on him and that when Shotty came around that it was opportunistic of me.

You were quite opportunistic yourself, you had your vote on leech. Instead of continuing the debate with Leech, which Leech handled himself very well. You saw an easy way out of the debate by switching votes to hammer shotty.

Incorrect, once again. I voted Chimp Pants first. Then I switched to Shotty. Please try to keep up with the game.

What are your thoughts on Leech now Mysterio? You have had quite the discussion with him on day one its seemed to disolve now, what happened from day one until now that you both are not at each other?

His call to have Shotty policy lynched was ballsy, and his subsequent post tearing Shotty apart impressed me. I have a far stronger town read on him now than I did prior to his posts against Shotty.

Also, what you're doing here is pretty obvious. First you try to fling suspicion at my vote on Shotty,

now

you're trying to stir things up between Leech and I. When that doesn't work, you'll probably try something else in your flailing attempt to deflect suspicion back onto me. More votes on Thian, please.

@Leech, your case against Kirby seems to be based on his inactivity more than anything else. The problem with that is

everyone

in this game has had activity level issues, so voting on that basis makes me a bit weary. Thian, on the other hand, has been actively scummy.

[Thian]

Mysterio: fair enough I did miss the vote on chimp pants prior to you changing to shotty. So that is incorrect on my part. However, it doesn't excuse the fact that you did change your vote over from where it was on chimp pants to shotty for an opportunistic hammer so that you could rush yourself into a night phase and go for a night kill.

I've noticed a trend in your votes. As soon as someone votes you Mysterio you vote for them. Leech voted for you, you voted for Leech. Chimp Pants voted you. You voted for chimp. Shotty voted you, you voted for Shotty. They found things that were scummy about you first. Since there was no support in a leech lynch, or Chimp Pants Lynch, you automatically moved over to shotty where votes were piled high enough to end the day so you could NK. Now that Chimp Pants has a vote on me and you do too, you are now cheerleading people to join you. They will join if they really feel that way.

Mysterio: Inactivity means less posts, but Leech feels that the content that IS there, is scummy enough to have his vote on that person why are you pushing people to vote how you want? What's wrong with having a vote on Kirbyoshi?

[Chimp Pants]

@Mod: Can we get a prod on Startransmission? He logged in today and this is his only active game.

Already done.

~Vel

@Mysterio: How would unvoting Drowmage have made Thian seem less scummy?

@Star: You there? We're a week away from our a D2 deadline and you still haven't voted.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Kalimar replaces Applefarmer.

[Kalimar]

Hey everyone.

It'll take a little while to fully read through and make a content post, but seeing how close the deadline is I'll do my best to get one done ASAP.

[Chimp Pants]

We're pushing pretty close to deadline without much in the way of wagons. If anyone else would support a Thian lynch, I think putting him at L-1 soon would be best for the town. If you're not willing to do so, we need you to explicitly state that as soon as possible. The sooner the better.

We

really

need content from Kalimar (welcome replacement) and Star's slot.

[Mysterio]

Looks like Star has finally decided to flake. He's been active lurking the entire game, so this doesn't surprise me.

@Thian, my post has nothing to do with where Leech is voting. I was simply commenting that

I

have reservations voting for Kirby due to active lurking, considering there are multiple players who are guilty of it, including yourself. My list of active lurkers goes like this:

1. Thian
2. Kirby
3. Star
4. Brod/AP/Kalimar

You're the best lynch.

@Chimp Pants, I answered that several times. Is this going to be a repeat of Day 1? Posts #336, #345, and #354 all answer your question. And I'm sure I touched on it in subsequent posts as well. Lack of scumhunting and opportunistic vote on a VI.

As far as the deadline, I'm not exactly sure how much time we have, but I would like the other players to comment on my case against Thian. Star, Kirby, and Kalimar need to chime in and participate.

[Kalimar]

Okay. This is going to be a bit of a hodgepodge. And yes, it's long. Some of this is copied directly out of my notes, so it may not read perfectly. Please respond to the points/questions I ask, as I am still determining my best vote for today. Hopefully this will stimulate some activity.

My reads are hardly complete either; but things of note:

Thian -
In #148 You say Mysterio is top of your suspicion but then go on to beat down your own argument saying "maybe two townies are arguing it out". The reason on Illume is really weaksauce. Basing a suspicion around some weak WIFOM second guessing why someone replaced is not good enough.
Thian #355 You say Trach's caution/hesitation in 193 is scummy. Mysterio's comment was a little off the mark as you suggest, but the fact remains in this post you say you didn't find it scummy, whereas in 193 it was "so scummy". Contradiction. The tone here also sounds like you're voting Mysterio because you don't really have anyone better to vote; possible OMGUS.
in #112 you seem to parrot how Kirbyoshi has a town read on Myst/Leech for the Wall of text debates, but you still don't really say who YOU think is scum, and whether you agree with this theory or not (it's assumed you do, but I'd rather not assume).
I also don't like your play on d1 - you ask a lot of questions but don't really scumhunt. You parrot a bit too (#28 is one example). I have issues that your first vote cast was not on Trach or Myst, but on DrMy who was an obvious easy target, despite his bad play. Are you afraid to cast the first stone and put yourself out?

Kirby - Let's re-evaluate your vote reasons. Hindu for some gut read which was never really explained and apparently you couldn't find anything in his posts, even though he'd posted an OK amount.
Then, Drmyshotty for "bad play" without elaborating at all on what was bad exactly.
Finally, Chimp Pants because Hindu voted him and Hindu died. Pure WIFOM. Your cases are not good or persuasive. Also in #103 stating people's allignments without basis is suspect. In #107 you say Myst is playing 'somewhat off' but don't elaborate why.
#117 states you think the activity should go up... That's nice, considering how inactive you appear to have been.
Your voting meta #137 states you try to give adequate reasoning when voting people. Does gut reason REALLY count as an adequate reason? In my opinion, it does not.

Star - This is day 2 and you have given virtually zero content. Why have you not voted anyone yet? Why are you not scumhunting at all? Why has this behaviour just been allowed to slide, oweing to the fact you haven't received a vote this whole game?

Chimp - Yesterday (Day 1) you appeared to be rather suspicious of Mysterio. Is he still a suspect of yours? In your ISO post #2 You give a list of reasons why Myst is suspicious, but don't back up with a vote. Infact, today you're not voting him at all even though you've elaborated more on why Myst is suspicious than Thian. Why is that?
You also post some vote chart for analysis but don't analyse it yourself. Some 'information over analysis' for you.

Myst - I don't see the point of post #37 at all. Seems like pointless justification of something irrelevant, but perhaps you can explain it to me as I may be on the wrong track.
Mentioning distancing (post #26 and #30) with a strong tone at such an early point of the game seems a bit weird.
You and Leech spent a lot of time answering what seemed to be every little point of each other's reply; in my opinion this derailed the thread off scumhunting and onto fluff mechanics.
As others have stated, I don't get why you would say you're "backing off" from Leech twice. Infact, you don't back off at all, you just keep on debating away.

Leech - Yesterday you were all over Mysterio. Now you're not. What is your opinion of him now? A lot of your day 1 posts are overly heavy on mechanics and voting policies, and don't really give any good reads. On day 2 you have really only been focusing on Kirbyoshi; and a little on Startrans. The former could come off as tunneling somewhat; how much do you expect Kirby to flip up scum if he were lynched today?

[Chimp Pants]

@Mysterio: Maybe this will be a repeat of D1 since those posts don't really answer my question. Remember, I'm also already voting for Thian, so this isn't about your overall reason for voting for Thian.

You've stated at least twice that part of Thian's scumminess stems from him voting for Drowmage (a player not in this game) during the RVS and never unvoting until he voted for Shotty. Since not unvoting makes Thian scummier in your eyes, we can conclude that had he unvoted, he would have appeared less scummy to you. I'm asking about unvoting....

Had Thian simply unvoted after his mistake was pointed out to him, how would that make him less scummy?


@Kalimar:

Chimp - Yesterday (Day 1) you appeared to be rather suspicious of Mysterio. Is he still a suspect of yours? In your ISO post #2 You give a list of reasons why Myst is suspicious, but don't back up with a vote. Infact, today you're not voting him at all even though you've elaborated more on why Myst is suspicious than Thian. Why is that?
You also post some vote chart for analysis but don't analyse it yourself. Some 'information over analysis' for you.

1. You asked if I am still suspicious of Mysterio: I am still suspicious of Mysterio but I currently believe Thian's vote for Shotty is more suspicious.
2. You stated that I never voted for Mysterio despite giving reasons that I found him suspicious. That doesn't accurately reflect the truth. I replaced into a slot that already had an existing vote on Mysterio.

First, Illume had voted for Mysterio, and I'll confirm that I agree with that vote.

3. You stated that during D2 I've elaborated more on why Mysterio is suspicious than Thian. That is not true. My only interaction with or discussion of Mysterio D2 has been one question (now asked 3 times) that hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.
4. You gave me some 'information over analysis' points for my vote chart at the end of D1. My D2 vote for Thian is based on my vote chart (some of which wasn't practical to post here due to formatting troubles). The information I posted gave highlights of things I found interesting prior to the NK and prior to spending some time rereading the game.

[Kalimar]

@Chimp: The semantic meaning of the "Infact, today you're not voting him at all even though you've elaborated more on why Myst is suspicious than Thian" isn't referring to your actions today, but your stated suspicions as a whole. You've given more material on why Myst is suspicious than Thian. That is all.

And, yes I missed the Illume vote. So that point is moot.

[Kirbyoshi]

Unvote CP, Vote: Mysterio

Pretty much everyone has called him out on why Thian is scummy for not unvoting drow. Now I'm demanding a response.

@Myst: Why is he more scummy for not unvoting drow?

[Thian]

Hi guys,

I am pretty much telling you, as much as I do not want to do this, I think it might be best if I could claim asap so you guys can decide on how you want to approach the next week before the lynch.

Let me know. I am in an out of my house for the weekend due to birthday party for a good friend. I will be here checking. Mysterio and Chimp seem to have made up their minds on where they are happiest with the vote. I am not so much worried about Chimp Pants. It is Mysterio's vote, to me, that really should be questioned if I am lynched or Nk'd.

[Chimp Pants]

@Thian: Unless you expect to be gone before the deadline, we need to earn your claim with votes. I appreciate what you're trying to do- it counts for townie points in my book. We need opinions from the town as a whole more than your claim.

@All: Please explicitly state whether or not you're willing to vote for Thian. If not, please give your top choice. You win a prize (well, maybe not) if you actually

vote

for your top scum candidate (unless of course Thian reaches L-1 and he hasn't claimed yet).

I'll start: I'm already voting for Thian, but I could see possibly supporting a Mysterio lynch. I'm not sure what I feel about Kirby's vote for Mysterio though.

[Thian]

alright listen. i don't give two flying effs, about votes against me right now drunk and crap, so im laying it down. . the only person I care about is chimp pants. buddy im sorry. about the people I am really damn well questioning is mysterio and kirbyoshi.. If you are town. wake up and move on. kirbyoshi your vote against chimp pants was suspect so stop it and move to a scummy person thanks. Mysterio no matter how cool you think you are....get over yourself too and vote else where.. start transmission, your poor preformance. god dammit. get into the game. I assure you you are not needed in a newbie game if your participation levels are lacking THIS much. I am done. I will not respond any more to anyone. excpet for chimp.

you want a claim. As soon as somoene says. "Thian, what is your role" I will claim. otherwise, the hell with you all. im done. thanks. val im sorry....the participation level in this game sucks....this is not on you...this is on the people who signed up for a game to play and have not bother to play....

SO here are my theories.

why the hell are leech and mysterio not bothering with each other anymore? especially after the first day that they were after each other. startransmission...oh god, get into the game. kirbyoshi, figure out your vote and then start figuring yourself out. otherwise, you are looking guilty because you are voting chimp for no god damn reason.

and kalimar. im sorry but people, start questionining that crap..cus well. look at it, his name starts with a K. and thast Scummy in itself

Tah dahhhh im done.

[Thian]

Kirbyoshi needs to be questioned as to why the hell he was on a horrid lynch for shotty.....mysterio and leech need to be questioned why they were so opportunistic for a lynch on shotty as they are accusing me for the same crap.

[Leech]

Leech - Yesterday you were all over Mysterio. Now you're not. What is your opinion of him now? A lot of your day 1 posts are overly heavy on mechanics and voting policies, and don't really give any good reads. On day 2 you have really only been focusing on Kirbyoshi; and a little on Startrans. The former could come off as tunneling somewhat; how much do you expect Kirby to flip up scum if he were lynched today?

I still suspect Mysterio, but not nearly as much. A lot of what I was doing in the previous phase was applying early game pressure. With how he was responding it was setting off several alarms. I would not be surprised if he's scum, but I'm not convinced enough to vote for him. Especially with Kirbyscummy around.

To answer your question, I'd be amazed if Kirby was town. Notice how every time he posts after me, I have to request him to answer them? He's not, at all, trying to defend himself. He's trying to ignore points against him and attack others. Also, the reasons he's using are not reasons of his own, rather reasons of other people. Scum will use that tactic to force blame onto the those who possessed the thoughts originally as a way to defer suspicion away from themselves.

I was simply commenting that I have reservations voting for Kirby due to active lurking, considering there are multiple players who are guilty of it, including yourself.

I'm not voting him from active lurking. I'm voting him for his lack of activity when he's posting. I'm voting him because how he's playing this game is completely different from the town games I've read on him before. I'm voting him for IIoA, Fluff, and not even attempting to scumhunt. He's trying to make it look like he's scumhunting while adding nothing to the mix. These are extremely scummy activities that overshadows anything that Thian has done in this game. Kirby is the best lynch, and I'm very confident that it will be a scum lynch.

mysterio and leech need to be questioned why they were so opportunistic for a lynch on shotty as they are accusing me for the same crap.

What? I stated, quite boldly, that I was lynching Shotty as a policy. I didn't sneak on to a wagon at an opportunistic time, I made my intentions perfectly clear as I was voting. When a player's meta is to be disruptive and never help the town in any of their games, it is best to get rid of that player. If they are scum, awesome. If they are town, they will be around the ENTIRE GAME making scumhunting all the harder for the rest of the town. If someone's determined to be a distraction, I will push for a policy lynch every time. This is not opportunism, this is logically the best choice you can make in a circumstances like that.

Pretty much everyone has called him out on why Thian is scummy for not unvoting drow. Now I'm demanding a response.

I demand that you scumhunt. Again, you are latching onto what others are saying without adding anything of your own to the mix.

Lynch Kirby, and you will lynch scum.