Mini 1042 - Skillville - GAME OVER!

[Untrod Tripod]

@volkan
for Esp, I find him slightly scummy because of his focus on meta and his rationale for DH being scum being "tone". In my experience, voting based on a player's tone is opportunistic. Also his posting style seems to mainly be reactive to little things that other people have said rather than analyzing the play of others. It seems like he's trying to look "active" without actually saying much. Plus he admitted to skimming. Wat.

for Scott, my read on him is mainly based on his extremely opportunistic vote on Socrates. Upon reread, his vote on Socrates after that wagon got derailed saying only "woohoo, real vote time!" looks pretty bad to me. It's only a slight lean though and it's mainly based on him doing that. He hasn't done much else, so I can't really say much else about what I think of him until he posts moar.

@HorrorDude
I don't care about whatever reck is trying to do with his playstyle. Why do you?
I think trolling for reads is detrimental to the game. If I can stop the village idiot from taking focus off of the game, I'll do it.

[horrordude0215]

Zach, you're ignoring my points again...

Vollkan, the point was that Esp has done nothing all game, and it doesn't excuse it because he FoS'd, I think was just a weak attempt at appearing active. I would have probably said the same if he voted... it was more of a "Why was it just an FoS instead of a vote" comment.

UT, if he's trolling for a reason (IE reaction/read fishing), let him. But DON'T announce it so everyone can see... it kinda defeats the purpose of fishing, doesn't it?

[Skill006]

@Zach, sorry about that, I try not to be too strict. I saw you had posted that note when you did, but totally forgot about it and someone had requested Scott be prodded, and you were absent for the same time as he was so I just sent them to both of ya >.>; And I'll try and be more lenient on weekends, I just tend to be

less

busy on holidays...

Now looking for a replacement for YoshiX.

Vote Count here soon.

[Untrod Tripod]

UT, if he's trolling for a reason (IE reaction/read fishing), let him. But DON'T announce it so everyone can see... it kinda defeats the purpose of fishing, doesn't it?

@HorrorDude
I don't care about whatever reck is trying to do with his playstyle. Why do you?
I think trolling for reads is detrimental to the game. If I can stop the village idiot from taking focus off of the game, I'll do it.

Is there a part of this you don't understand?

[Skill006]

By the by, on the personal attacking stuff, I am pretty lenient about that if it's just up to me, though if anyone is bothered/offended by it, please don't hesitate to tell me, and I can take care of it accordingly.

I definitely want less of it, though. If I see much more of it, I will start modkilling.

[Skill006]

Fourth Vote Count:

DemonHybrid (2) – Socrates, reckamonic
Espeonage (3) – Untrod tripod, q21, Horrordude0215
Horrordude0215 (1) – Zachrulez
Reckamonic (1) - Alduskkel
Socrates (1) – Scott Brosius

Not Voting: YoshiX, Espeonage, vollkan

Deadline is September 15th, 11:00 pm EST. With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!

If I made any mistakes, let me know ASAP!

[DemonHybrid]

By the by, on the personal attacking stuff, I am pretty lenient about that if it's just up to me, though if anyone is bothered/offended by it, please don't hesitate to tell me, and I can take care of it accordingly.

I definitely want less of it, though. If I see much more of it, I will start modkilling.

I'm cool with it, just as an FYI.

[Scott Brosius]

Alduskkel

75 reads as OMGUS. It's more as if you are voting him because he put YOU at L-1, and not just the action in general.

DemonHybrid

37 As noted, you place blame on someone but vote someone else. The whole subsequent argument with Socrates is null to me.

Espeonage

- no specific quotes has been active though which is concerning.

horrordude0215

83 As I mentioned before, I fail to see how my vote was opportunistic.
125 I have some problems with. We were on the second page, I certainly wasn't "grasping at straws" for someone to vote. Also I agree with Zach in terms of people being too confident too early and refusing to budge from those reads the rest of the day. You seem to misconstrue this in 128 as well.

q21

- no specific quotes has been active though which is concerning

Reckamonic

139 sums up the play from this slot. Generic reads, not really any reasons. Not helpful. 142 equally unhelpful.
144 I always find the whole "ask me questions!" strategy to be scummy. It gives an excuse for lack of participation.
162 Ignores Aldus and only responsds to DH who conveniently is voting him. Scummy.

Socrates

76 reads as town. The argument of DH not even considering that I could be scum and answering for me is solid.

Untrod Tripod

- no specific quotes, not a lot of content. Found the list of all the players and everything being a slight read pretty useless.

vollkan

79 If he wants to end the RVS early, isn't wagonning the best way out? Do not agree with that point. Also Zach leaving the L-1 wagon is null.

YoshiX

- absolutely nothing

Zachrulez

- 61 reads as town. Doesn't give into demands as I feel scum tend to do.

The past few pages are pretty devoid of content with arguments and attacks. DH and horror were my original scum reads, but they have improved in my eyes. I would say Esp and Reck are my top 2 scum reads at the moment.

Unvote
Vote: Reckamonic

[Alduskkel]

You make a good point about Reckamonic ignoring me. However, I have to ask what about post 75 was OMGUS. After all, I did give reasons, what's wrong with them?

I'm a bit wary of you picking the two easiest targets (Reckamonic & Espeonage) to have a scum read on. I won't call it a scum tell yet (they're easy targets for a reason) but it's something I'll be keeping an eye on.

[Alduskkel]

@Espeonage voters: Why Espeonage and not Reckamonic?

[q21]

@Espeonage voters: Why Espeonage and not Reckamonic?

Because at the time that I voted it was a push for him to participate more and at that point reckamonic had only shown the very beginnings of the non-contributory style he's now fallen into. Since then Espeonage's post rate has gone up, but his post content hasn't - given that he was doing a "read through" and that his posts inferred that some sort of analysis was coming from him in the near future, which hasn't materialised, I'm happy to be voting for the active lurker.

When I brought up all of these in my post against him, he strawmanned me by completely ignoring them and only focusing on the flip-flop portion of the argument. All of those things scream scum to me, and so we should lynch Zach.

While he is guilty of not responding directly to every point you made he is not guilty of strawmanning. He did not attribute to you argument you didn't make and then attack that argument instead of your own actual arguments. You're throwing in a buzzzword here in order to make your case seems stronger than it actually is.

[Zachrulez]

Just remembered that I'd meant to check on this.

Esponage hasn't posted here in 2 days but is active in other games.

[Zachrulez]

Well hasn't posted since monday night to be fair. (So closer to 36 hours than 2 days.) I saw the difference in the day of the week rather than the timestamp.

Anyway the main point is that he's choosing to avoid this game while being active on the site.

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry; I'm catching up late tonight. A single game completely melted my brain last night and I have classes until 9 tonight.

[Espeonage]

I'm replacing out. I am helping the mod find a replacement for myself. Replacing three finished games in a week with three new ones wasn't a good idea. I was bound to lose focus with all the new info. Sorry guys. It basically just came down to this game was the one I was least 'in' to in terms of activity and motivation.

[Reckamonic]

You have no idea how painful it was for us to finally sit down and read through all of DH's posts. My god man.

Anyway.
He votes Zach presumably for preventing a quickhammer. Also, how can he yell at us for not providing evidence for our scum reads, when he calls Socrates & Zach scumbuddies with no reasoning as well.

This is bullshit. Not necessarily scummy, just fucking stupid.

Sidenote, this is why Zachrulez is town.

I'd like to say that I have a hunch that one of Socrates and DH is definitely scum. They're not scum together, because their assault on each other at the start of D1 is too genuine for them to be bussing... but one of them is scum.

Back to it... just read this post. Seriously. It's beyond stupid and it's just grasping at straws.

Sidenote, q21's vote on Zachrulez reeks of scum attempting to start an alternate wagon. It just comes in out of the blue and doesn't make sense in context.


Aaaand, we're back with DH passively setting up to jump on Zach's wagon. Feeling a little unsure about your Socrates attack?

PS, once again, DH says his vote without reason was more or less reaction fishing, which is all mildly hilarious given his assault on us. His point about town being more likely to forget where their vote is is just really really really terrible. Also, why the HELL is DH so willing to trust that Scott had some plan with his vote?

ANOTHER SIDENOTE. horrordude calling obvtownZach his strongest scumread is seriously lulzy. And then he proceeds to argue with Zach and volkan here which is also just sad. They're both quite townie, and his points against them seem to be misreppish (see: his points against Zach).

And volkan is town because he's always town. That's about as good of a reason you can get. Untrod Tripod does a good job of dismantling DH's post 100 with his post 102.

ANOTHER ANOTHER SIDENOTE. q21 is definitely scum for that attempted shift of attention. Again.

DH's jump onto us is just bad. He's whining about not giving reasoning for voting, which is COMPLETELY FUCKING HYPOCRITICAL.

Would also like to point out 98% of DH's posts are just ad hom ad hom ad hom ad hom ad hom. Which makes his OMG RECKAMONIC IS GETTING MODKILLED thing just fucking awful. His entire point that we're only not getting lynched because we've been around longer is fucking awful. Do we really need to explain WHY these things are awful? It's pretty self-evident.

Dear God, I'd like to get into Zach vs horror and talk about how awful that is, too. But I'll save that for later.

This false dichotomy where he says we have to be either VT or scum is also bullshit and based in COMPLETE NOTHINGNESS. HOW ABOUT SOME ACTUAL SUPPORT FOR THAT THAT ISN'T JUST HEARSAY?

It's cute how quickly he backs off of us though.

Horror, your buddying is becoming way too blatant now. lololololololol.

q21, your parroting is becoming way too blatant now. lololololololol.

BOTTOM LINE:
DH is scum.
q21 & horrordude are also scum.
G fucking G

[DemonHybrid]

You have no idea how painful it was for us to finally sit down and read through all of DH's posts. My god man.

Anyway.
He votes Zach presumably for preventing a quickhammer. Also, how can he yell at us for not providing evidence for our scum reads, when he calls Socrates & Zach scumbuddies with no reasoning as well.

Because I gave reasoning later. Derp. However, you're shaping up to be quite the arrogant VT. This comes into play later.

This is bullshit. Not necessarily scummy, just fucking stupid.

That's cool. You mention that 98% of my content is ad hom later on, and that I'm a hypocrite. Cool story, bro.

Sidenote, this is why Zachrulez is town.

I'd like to say that I have a hunch that one of Socrates and DH is definitely scum. They're not scum together, because their assault on each other at the start of D1 is too genuine for them to be bussing... but one of them is scum.

Back to it... just read this post. Seriously. It's beyond stupid and it's just grasping at straws.

But out of the realm of impossibility? Did Scott deny this?

Until he does, I invite you to take this point and hit yourself in the face with it.

Aaaand, we're back with DH passively setting up to jump on Zach's wagon. Feeling a little unsure about your Socrates attack?

Uh, I was already voting Zach, so I'm not sure what you mean about this.

And I've never been unsure about my Soc suspicions, so I don't understand why you'd associate this post with Soc.

PS, once again, DH says his vote without reason was more or less reaction fishing, which is all mildly hilarious given his assault on us. His point about town being more likely to forget where their vote is is just really really really terrible. Also, why the HELL is DH so willing to trust that Scott had some plan with his vote?

My "assault" on you was more of a legitimate defense against your pointless attacks.

Why is the thought that town forgetting where their vote is terrible? Scum's more wary of how close they are to death because they have less to worry about. When you're town, you're more concerned with the arguments and less about how many people are voting whoever, so it's not out of the realm of probability that town would forget the votecount more than scum would. Can you disprove this?

I trust Scott had some plan with his vote NOW because he never denied it. I trusted Scott had some plan before because...well, I felt it was obvious.

And volkan is town because he's always town. That's about as good of a reason you can get. Untrod Tripod does a good job of dismantling DH's post 100 with his post 102.

1. I remember you saying that vollkan is town because of his content.....

......so....what?

Please explain why UT "dismantled" my post in detail instead of throwing a weak point onto it.

DH's jump onto us is just bad. He's whining about not giving reasoning for voting, which is COMPLETELY FUCKING HYPOCRITICAL.

Cool, well, by this part, I had given reasons for all of my actions. You flat out refused to ever do. And here you are, giving reasons.

You aren't consistent. Stop being anti-town.

1. Would also like to point out 98% of DH's posts are just ad hom ad hom ad hom ad hom ad hom. 2. Which makes his OMG RECKAMONIC IS GETTING MODKILLED thing just fucking awful. 3. His entire point that we're only not getting lynched because we've been around longer is fucking awful. Do we really need to explain WHY these things are awful? It's pretty self-evident.

1. Funny....just look at your ISO, man. I shouldn't have to go further with this point. Blaming me for using ad hom is mind numbing.
2. I was warning you not to use personal attacks. I'd rather you NOT get modkilled.
3. No, I'm saying that if I did what you did, without having the same status on the site as you do, I'd be lynched in an instant. Just a minor point....and didn't you JUST say that most of my arguments were ad hom in the SAME paragraph? What's with the hypocrisy?

This false dichotomy where he says we have to be either VT or scum is also bullshit and based in COMPLETE NOTHINGNESS. HOW ABOUT SOME ACTUAL SUPPORT FOR THAT THAT ISN'T JUST HEARSAY?

It's cute how quickly he backs off of us though.

Hearsay =/= past experiences. Wrong usage of the english language to pin me as scummy. Using past experiences in your logic is absolutely appropriate.

Nothing has changed; I've always thought you were either VT or scum. Could you be a PR? Maybe, but I'm not betting on it this case.

Another ridiculous compilation. You just basically parroted others' arguments, man. Everything that wasn't parroted was baseless or ad hom.

[Reckamonic]

You really have no clue as to what Ad Hom means, do you?

[Reckamonic]

Another ridiculous compilation. You just basically parroted others' arguments, man.

I'm curious as to seeing any concrete proof of this from you.

[DemonHybrid]

You really have no clue as to what Ad Hom means, do you?

Attacking the speaker to debunk an argument.

[Reckamonic]

exactly.
Saying "STFU" isn't ad hom
saying "He's fuckin arrogant, therefore he couldnt possibly be a PR" is.

[DemonHybrid]

Another ridiculous compilation. You just basically parroted others' arguments, man.

I'm curious as to seeing any concrete proof of this from you.

All of your arguments have just copied others; my lack of my reasoning when voting Zach, the VT/scum thing, why I trust Scott so much, etc.

Anything new that you brought up was a "this is a stupid argument because stupid" type of argument. Point out anything in your argument that is new and actually has reasoning to back it up, please.

Preview Edit: So, saying "This is untrue because DH is just being fucking stupid" isn't ad-hom? Which you've done a few times, actually.

[DemonHybrid]

Basically, my point is:

My defense against you consisted of asking you where the fuck your reasoning is.

Your attack against me is "DH is scummy scum because scum."

"OKAY I GUESS I'LL GIVE REASONS. This is stupid, this is terrible, this is bad."

Me: "But why?"

"AD HOM."

It's ridiculous.

[Reckamonic]

All of your arguments have just copied others; my lack of my reasoning when voting Zach, the VT/scum thing, why I trust Scott so much, etc.

proof?

Preview Edit: So, saying "This is untrue because DH is just being fucking stupid" isn't ad-hom? Which you've done a few times, actually.

This is false, prove me wrong.

[horrordude0215]

horrordude0215

83 As I mentioned before, I fail to see how my vote was opportunistic.

I explained this in my 125.

125 I have some problems with. We were on the second page, I certainly wasn't "grasping at straws" for someone to vote.

That's the thing though... I saw it as opportunistic. You voted someone because they placed the L-1 vote, which is a nulltell at best.

Also I agree with Zach in terms of people being too confident too early and refusing to budge from those reads the rest of the day. You seem to misconstrue this in 128 as well.

I wasn't trying to misconstrue it... I was trying to figure out what he was trying to say, and that was how I was reading it.

Is there a part of this you don't understand?

No I understand you perfectly. I also know that there are less conventional tactics of getting reads, and some of them are successful. This is just a difference of opinion, I think.

@Espeonage voters: Why Espeonage and not Reckamonic?

I'm more confident in my Esp read.

While he is guilty of not responding directly to every point you made he is not guilty of strawmanning. He did not attribute to you argument you didn't make and then attack that argument instead of your own actual arguments. You're throwing in a buzzzword here in order to make your case seems stronger than it actually is.

Isn't the definition of strawman where you ignore certain parts of a case and only address others? If not, my bad... that's what I thought it meant

Sidenote, this is why Zachrulez is town.

I don't get it... Because he said he had a town read on someone? Or because he said that something was a risky way to get reactions? I'm really confused here... please shed some light on the situation.

ANOTHER SIDENOTE. horrordude calling obvtownZach his strongest scumread is seriously lulzy. And then he proceeds to argue with Zach and volkan here which is also just sad. They're both quite townie, and his points against them seem to be misreppish (see: his points against Zach).

Okay, explain how Zach is obvtown. And speaking of misreps, I wasn't arguing with vollkan... I was answering one of his questions. And again, how was I misrepping him?

Horror, your buddying is becoming way too blatant now. lololololololol.

How is that buddying? Misrep.

On the other hand, I think the DH V Reck is Town V Scum, respectively.

Espeonage, Zach, and Reckamonic are scum so far. What are the odds that it's a 4 scum game? Because if not, we have the entire team there!