Newbie 1001 - Game Over

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #300 (ISO) » Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:44 pm

Post by CallMeLiam »

Vote Count


skn27
- 2 - Banana Stickers, , Substrike22,
boberz
- 2 - KoreanWonderboy, Pizzaplate
Substrike22
- 1 - skn27
Memnon
- 2 - Ragnarokio, boberz
Ragnarokio
- 1 - Memnon
KoreanWonderboy
- 1 - Equinox
Not Voting
- 0

Five votes lynches, Deadline is 9am
Friday the 10th of September
GMT. A countdown is here
is now full, but replacements are always welcome.
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Post Post #301 (ISO) » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:07 pm

Post by boberz »

Sorry guys been VLA the last two days, and still today.

But the lurking and bandwagoning accusations leveleed at me are utter crap. I dont lurk as either faction, I provide content in every game. Bandwagons are good, and do not always lead to alynch. Dont assume that there is any appeal to majority, or any traditional tell I will use to scumhunt Equinox, you made an assumption about what I wanted to do then voted me for it. Assumption wrong.

Memnon is scum evryone should vote him now. There is more to come . No time today though.
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Post Post #302 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:09 am

Post by Memnon »

Pizzaplate, that is a bit unfair of an accusation. I didn't see any appeal to majority in Boberz' attack on me. Also, I agree with the fact that bandwagons are good.

Also, Equinox makes a good point about KoreanWonderboy. Disappearing when the heat is on someone else is pretty scummy.

UNVOTE: VOTE: KoreanWonderBoy
Thanks to Equinox for putting together my wiki without my knowledge. <3

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Post Post #303 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:07 am

Post by Pizzaplate »

I see bandwagonning for the sake of bandwagonning scummy, sorry if you think so otherwise.
And if voting someone because they have the most votes on them isn't appeal to majority, then what is?
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Post Post #304 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:45 am

Post by boberz »

Surely it is only scummy in context. GO and read my meta and find a game where I dont propose bandwagons 'for the sake of them' (although that is not quite how I would describe them) either way Pizza, Memnon's scum so we should just off him now.

(more to come like now, finally back at home and have time to read properly.)
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Post Post #305 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:59 am

Post by KoreanWonderBoy »

Whoops sorry guys. I was just sort of busy, so I figured that if the heat's off me, I could just sort of concentrate on other things in life for a bit. Not completely ignore this though, it's just that I've gotten two jobs now so I just kept up with this, but not enough to formulate a good opinion. Anyways, I'm not changing my vote. I'm going to stand by my views. I find bandwagoning suspicious. (I know it isn't always scummy, but in my eyes it is)
Like everyone else is saying, we need MORE data than just ways of people talking, because newbish talk and scummy talk is so similar. And this is a Newbie game. So I'm not changing my vote.
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Post Post #306 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:08 am

Post by boberz »

Okay most importantly on the subject of Memnon's tops supect flaking and his consequential grumblings and refusual to playings. It is bad because Memnon on atleast one occasion suggested he wanted to wait for the replacement and the inference was that he lacked either the will or the ability to scumhunt further. It is plain for all to see that he has the ability to articulate a case along with the best players in the game so the question is why did he lack the will. I understand that it is dissapointing when your highest suspect flakes, but waving it around as a flag, an excuse or a delaying tactic is not good.

This suggests to me that you were targetting one suspect in such a way that it was your only focus which imo betrays a scummy mentality.
Memnon wrote: agree with this. UNVOTE:
Cheers, I take this as a compliment from both of you.
Votes jumping around early isn't an unusual thing unless you put someone at L-1 or hammer without reasoning. (IC or SE's feel free to correct me on this or disagree)
It is not unusual, but I would suggest that anybody using the fact it is not unusual as a justification is on a slippery slope to scum. It is certainly bad to throw out an L-1 or a hammer without justification (not that you did that just putting my tuppence worth in).
someone clearly doesnt know what they are talking about wrote:(boberz is) succeeding to bore town
Really me boring?
someone who is incorrect wrote:He pushes one attack on memnon, and nothing else. No wait, he pushes something else. He tells everyone to bandwagon. Now bandwagonning gets someone lynched, correct
someone who is misrepping wrote:"If everyone else finds him scum, then he must be scum!".
Seriously Pizza. You put this in quotation marks. Why? DId I say it? Since I didnt say it, why did you put the words into my mout and then vote for me using your logic. Madness madness madness. If you werent town I would have you strung up.
And if voting someone because they have the most votes on them isn't appeal to majority, then what is?
Appealing to the majority is not bandwagoning, it seriously isn't. Just lose 'appealing to majority from your vocabulary it doesnt work anyway (unless you know how to use it very few people do (I dont))

---

Korean's last post was utter rubbish I suggest he post again today, and try a bit harder.
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Post Post #307 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:22 am

Post by boberz »

Thanks, Equinox. But I guess what I was getting at with that question was, what other good methods are there for stimulating discussion?
THe answer is loads.

But more to the point why ask the question?
Thank you, skn, for taking a stand. I want to see where this line of attack goes.

@Substrike: what's your reasoning behind that vote?
@Ragnarokio: who are your top two suspects?
How did this help us catch scum?

---

Essentially my point is that if people read you in iso they will see the first page which is full of questions that go nowhere hints of suspicions guised in those questions and little proper scum hunting, No dissecting of text.
I find it interesting that ManInTrenchcoat has flaked once pressure has come upon him.
This is the epitomy of poor play and where in my read I realised you were todays lynch. It truly does betray how eager you are for a lynch. It is throwing mud but without proper reasoning. Unless you really think a newb becomming inactive is really a scumtell.

I suppose whilst I was really suspicious of my predeccessors during the reread you picked some really strange things to say, there were some big stretches on MiTC.

---

Also what was your real reasoning behind substrike???

---
For being too lazy to start a RQS. Actually, it's good that you're not pretending to be like Neto
THere are other ways to start a day btw. It isnt a straight choice. I hate RVS had I been in the game at the time there would not ave been one (this si completely off topic.)
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Post Post #308 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:49 am

Post by KoreanWonderBoy »

:l thanks. I have a lot on my mind right now and someone telling me that my opinion is rubbish doesn't help :l
And that substance post. Will be up after a few hours.
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Post Post #309 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:08 am

Post by boberz »

As long as it is I dont mind, I have seen a lot of those promises broken in the past. But there was no opinion and certainly no evidence that is why it was rubbish.
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Post Post #310 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:42 am

Post by Equinox »

boberz wrote:Equinox, you made an assumption about what I wanted to do then voted me for it. Assumption wrong.
Incorrect. I am not voting you.
KoreanWonderBoy wrote:Like everyone else is saying, we need MORE data than just ways of people talking, because newbish talk and scummy talk is so similar. And this is a Newbie game. So I'm not changing my vote.
There is no time to get more data. Besides, with 12+ pages of content, I think we have enough data with which to work. The problem is lack of unity in the town... which, admittedly, is partially my fault since I haven't been around to help facilitate that.

Awaiting KoreanWonderBoy's substance post.

I will examine the cases on boberz and Memnon later this evening (by which I mean the wee hours of morning). I'm on a time crunch at the moment.
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Post Post #311 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:33 pm

Post by Memnon »

@Boberz:

boberz wrote:Okay most importantly on the subject of Memnon's tops supect flaking and his consequential grumblings and refusual to playings. It is bad because Memnon on atleast one occasion suggested he wanted to wait for the replacement and the inference was that he lacked either the will or the ability to scumhunt further. It is plain for all to see that he has the ability to articulate a case along with the best players in the game so the question is why did he lack the will. I understand that it is dissapointing when your highest suspect flakes, but waving it around as a flag, an excuse or a delaying tactic is not good.

This suggests to me that you were targetting one suspect in such a way that it was your only focus which imo betrays a scummy mentality.
So, in other words, you're accusing yourself of being scum?
boberz wrote:
Thanks, Equinox. But I guess what I was getting at with that question was, what other good methods are there for stimulating discussion?
THe answer is loads.

But more to the point why ask the question?
Loads, unfortunately, is not a good method for stimulating discussion. You have to be more specific. And I asked the question because the game was stagnating and I didn't know what to do about it.
boberz wrote:
Thank you, skn, for taking a stand. I want to see where this line of attack goes.

@Substrike: what's your reasoning behind that vote?
@Ragnarokio: who are your top two suspects?
How did this help us catch scum?
Right then and there, it didn't help catch scum. Later on though, the benefit of having statements from people to draw on is overwhelmingly helpful. So are you suggesting that asking people questions is anti-town, or at the very least, unhelpful to town?
boberz wrote:Essentially my point is that if people read you in iso they will see the first page which is full of questions that go nowhere hints of suspicions guised in those questions and little proper scum hunting, No dissecting of text.
What text? That was exactly the problem. You can't dissect something that isn't there.
boberz wrote:
I find it interesting that ManInTrenchcoat has flaked once pressure has come upon him.
This is the epitomy of poor play and where in my read I realised you were todays lynch. It truly does betray how eager you are for a lynch. It is throwing mud but without proper reasoning. Unless you really think a newb becomming inactive is really a scumtell.
A newb becoming inactive is not a scumtell. You're right. But that's a really narrow-minded statement. Do we just write him off as a newb? And we have to ask, did he become inactive because he was under pressure? There's so much more you have to consider.
boberz wrote:Also what was your real reasoning behind substrike???
Gut. Why, are you suggesting my reasons were not real?
Thanks to Equinox for putting together my wiki without my knowledge. <3

I am currently on hiatus. Expected return date: next spring.
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Post Post #312 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:02 pm

Post by KoreanWonderBoy »

PHEW man my mind is overloaded. Warning you, I will have almost 8 or so posts in a row (:l) because my stupid computer doesn't have the cpu power to post large walls of text.... But I'm getting a new laptop in a month, this game (will it?) might take as long as that so yea.

Anyways, also, my mind started to become more tired and wander more as I got to the last few people. I'm quite busy now, but tried my best to analyze things. Things just got a little fuzzier near the end.
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Post Post #313 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:16 pm

Post by KoreanWonderBoy »

Starting with Banana Stickers. Your second post stated that you were glad that things were moving along. However, someone did point out that this seemed townie already. (skn, I think?) But you replied to that by saying that it was just an afterthought and either town or mafia could have said so. By saying this, you made me think that you were townie, because if you were scum, you would want people to think what skn (or whoever the accuser was) was thinking.
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Post Post #314 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:17 pm

Post by KoreanWonderBoy »

In later posts, you do things such as wanting to know opinions (which scum wouldn't like because people's opinions could include accusations to one's self) and giving tips to others, which you could have just left the experienced players to do. By your post 8, you analyze thoroughly some miniscule data, which seems to me as what a townie would do: why would scum analyze things that normal people might and could leave out?
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Post Post #315 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:18 pm

Post by KoreanWonderBoy »

Lastly, your last post attacks boberz. You are not afraid in this action, which means you are not afraid of what people might deduce from your attack. Like people have said, not being afraid of what people think of you is common townie behavior. Overall, Banana Stickers is off my radar, and I think you are townie. One done, many more left.
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Post Post #316 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:20 pm

Post by KoreanWonderBoy »

Next I viewed boberz in iso. (iso = isolation, correct?) One thing that grabbed my attention that seemingly passed by everyone else's radar was the fact that he read himself as scum while going over everything. It wasn't so suspicious until boberz analyzed other things quite well. If he's such a good analyzer... Quite suspicious, indeed.
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Post Post #317 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:22 pm

Post by KoreanWonderBoy »

And also, later, boberz says that this game is hard to read, and that that's not good. Suspicious in my mind, but I don't have the strategy or logic to back it up. What I see is that if he's townie, he's saying so because he's having a hard time finding scum. But what I think is that he IS scum (see before post) and that he finds it hard to read because he needs to find a suspect other than himself, his prime suspect. (sort of)
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Post Post #318 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:24 pm

Post by KoreanWonderBoy »

Next, boberz states that bandwagons can often be pro-town. I'm still not too clear about this one. Genuinely. Bandwagons are where one person votes a certain person (let's call him A) and then several others vote A as well. However, is it only a bandwagon if the others don't provide sufficient reasoning? Or is it bandwagoning as long as they are voting the same person? And is the only good thing about bandwagoning for the town that it causes discussion? Because couldn't the mafia take advantage of bandwagons and promote discussion towards the supposed guilitness of the bandwagonee?
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Post Post #319 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:28 pm

Post by KoreanWonderBoy »

And whoops, this will probably go over 8 posts. I'm really sorry guys, it's the best I can do :(
Boberz continues to push that bandwagons are good and pushes the bandwagon of Memnon. He states that we MUST vote him. (sort of) Like others have said, he originally didn't quite support his vote, but he eventually did so, perhaps not quite sufficiently. Overall, boberz throws up a red flag for me in general, so he keeps my vote.
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Post Post #320 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:30 pm

Post by KoreanWonderBoy »

Actually I misread what I had wrote down. Scratch that, I don't vote for boberz.
Unvote
(first time using the actual code thingy! :D)
This is because I think MiTC was innocent. He had several good arguments, and he didn't seem like he was panicking in his last few posts. I genuinely think his abscense is unrelated to flaking. (on that note, what is flaking? Is it just avoiding questions?)
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Post Post #321 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:34 pm

Post by KoreanWonderBoy »

Ugh slowing down here, quite tired, busy schedule because of school starting and getting two jobs. D:
Equinox: You are SO HARD TO READ especially because I'm a newb... You explain lots of things and keep discussion going, but it's impossible to tell whether this is because you are town or just because you are the Experienced Player... As of now, I'm leaning towards the town.
Memnon: You like activity, and you encourage people to post their suspicions (see your 9th post.) You also like when skn takes a stand. (your post 22) Even though I wasn't quite able to go over your defence from the bandwagon thoroughly (I promise to do this tomorrow) you seem townie to me.
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Post Post #322 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:39 pm

Post by KoreanWonderBoy »

Pizzaplate: You have VERY wide views. You do both overviews (sort of like what I'm doing now, just in less detail) and one person attacks. While doing so, you never pre-empt yourself. (which I should follow in doing... I'm not pre-empting... am I?) <- realized that bracket sentence was quite ironic. Anyways, pizzaplate, you think QUITE like I do. Very similarly. So pizzaplate to me is innocent.
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Post Post #323 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:39 pm

Post by KoreanWonderBoy »

Lastly (for now, sorry I didn't get to go over everyone) is skn. Even though I will go over you in more detail tomorrow, for now, I'm beginning to doubt my thoughts. I found that you took similar actions to what I would have done, but what was scary was when I put myself into mafia shoes. (which I had never done until now.. stupid me) I found myself almost doing identical things to you, whereas when I was thinking townie, I just had similar thoughts. This makes me quite suspicious, but not enough to vote you. I still sympathize with the newb aspect, but nonetheless, you and I are still players in a game.
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Post Post #324 (ISO) » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:40 pm

Post by KoreanWonderBoy »

And LASTLY, if I missed any questions, please ask them again, I'm quite sorry if I did. And like I said, I promise to do the rest tomorrow, if not the next day. Bear with me (and everyone else who is busy) because this time of year is busy as hell xD
P.S. Sorry bout the lots of posts. Still trying to fix.
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