How often have you guys seen mafia claim miller? Just curious.
Dana, you've spent the whole game tunneling on RC...is there seriously no one else you think is scum?
I also don't get where this "David seems town" comes from. Does this mean you think Magna is scum?
For going after an "easy" target (me), and 10 pages in having his vote on someone (me) who hasn't even noticed it's been on him til now because of my absence from the game. To me that strikes as scummy behaviour wanting to use your vote somewhere you won't be called out for and you won't get caught on a bandwagon either. Your vote being on me has basically been as good as not voting.
Buddy, you MADE yourself an 'easy' target by doing nothing except posting lists of reads with no explanations (I will add that you still haven't explained your logic behind any of them yet), and it's definitely not Magna's fault that you aren't paying attention. If you have the time to post unexplained reads on people, you have the time to count votes.
unvote
Vote: DavidParker
I still got my eye on you, Jack. You better spill the beans before the day is over.
Stef wrote:Regarding the OMGUS, what is the difference between voting in RVS (no value for vote) and then keeping it for OMGUS reasons and voting for OMGUS reasons? I actually want to get to a conclusion on this because it's beginning to be frustrating.
OK, fine. That's not what really occurred, but if I guess I get your theory.
Stef wrote:
Vote imaginality
You have offered close to no content. It's time you do so.
This is a really crappy vote, considering imaginality only posted once and hasn't posted elsewhere on this site while ignoring this game.
The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success.
dana wrote:Interesting, mykonian. I assume from the "ripper" thing, you're talking about Jack. But that's just speculation. I don't really know that you could prove he's scum from those things.
You do know, of course, that the game we are playing is at it’s base speculation. There is no empirical ‘proof’ in absolute terms in Mafia. Mykonian’s statement is pure meta. Based on the links I provided I don’t think it’s accurate meta, but given Jack’s more distant past and playstyle it certainly isn’t scummy.
DP wrote:Actually, my reason for voting you from earlier on in the day phase has been made moot by something I realized.
I'm going to do a '180 and OMGUS the socks off of Magna.
MagnaOfIllusion
For going after an "easy" target (me), and 10 pages in having his vote on someone (me) who hasn't even noticed it's been on him til now because of my absence from the game. To me that strikes as scummy behaviour wanting to use your vote somewhere you won't be called out for and you won't get caught on a bandwagon either. Your vote being on me has basically been as good as not voting.
1. Calling yourself an easy target doesn’t make your play less suspicious. Look at your ISO. It consists of calling some players Town and three players scum in lists devoid of content and telling us you are sick. This last self-styled OMGUS is the only thing that remotely is close to scum-hunting.
2. How is your failure to look at vote-counts a scum-tell on me again?
3. You are saying it’s bad to have a vote on someone you feel is scummy but isn’t the leading bandwagon. Because it renders your vote useless. Then explain to me this - based on your own logic how are you not scummy? You RVS voted Antihero. You kept it there up until you came after me. Hell you kept it there even after you posted the following gem –
DP wrote:Town:
Jack
danakillsu
Stef
Jelly Jiggler
Haschel
Scum:
XScorpion
Antihero
RedCoyote
Take your pick out of those 2 for our lynch. Let's get this moving.
That’s right. You take Antihero off your scum list but don’t even bother to move it to Xscorpian or RedCoyote who you say are scum.
Then you say you are going after mykonian (who is hip-deep in a huge conflict with Stef). When you challenges you to post content that he can rebut what do you do? OMGUS. Not vote your ‘scum reads’.
So you stowed your vote on Antihero and then ducked attacking someone central to the day’s focus so you weren’t possibly caught in a bandwagon.
Yeah, my vote is well placed indeed.
Antihero wrote:This is a really crappy vote, considering imaginality only posted once and hasn't posted elsewhere on this site while ignoring this game.
Please explain why it is a crappy vote. Because it is on someone who isn’t posting on MS at all? Or because Stef specifically stated it was a pressure vote?
LMP wrote:I dunno, I guess it was gut. XS is town though, so that's nice.
Welcome to the game LMP. I agree with your miller claim, especially since we know there is a Vig. Also this statement will make a great cross-reference against your known completed scum games for meta. Very Pro-Town of you.
"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.
I have not tunneled on RC. I have made many statements not directed at him, and even more not about him specifically. I do not have any other scumreads atm, which is why it might appear I'm tunneling on RC. Strangely enough, it seems whatever he says is turned into gold by others, and the defense I make for myself is ignored or called tunneling. Whatever. It will be town's loss to lynch me, so you're hurting yourselves as much as me. I would simply advise everyone to look at the actual logic involved in our conversation without bias to who is saying what, and I think people who can successfully do this will see things in a different light.
Shoot him. He's a possible scumbuddy to RC from his strange statement that his posting has improved and his wishy-washiness over him. He's not scummy for things he's done, just by connection to RC, but you could definitely do worse for an NK.
danakillsu wrote:Shoot him. He's a possible scumbuddy to RC from his strange statement that his posting has improved and his wishy-washiness over him. He's not scummy for things he's done, just by connection to RC, but you could definitely do worse for an NK.
Wouldn't it be better for you to convince me to shoot RC?
Please explain why it is a crappy vote. Because it is on someone who isn’t posting on MS at all? Or because Stef specifically stated it was a pressure vote?
The former. If imaginality wasn't posting, why not just ask for the prod and ask when he picks up the prod? Instead, Stef placed a vote, not knowing if imaginality just wasn't checking this site (in which case the "pressure" vote is full of fail). Now, if imaginality was prodded, picked up his prod, and still hadn't posted, I think the vote would be well justified.
The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success.
: This post is way too big. I'm sorry. Everyone gave me a confidence boost earlier and that gets my juices flowing.
tl;dr = Thanks LynchMePls, believe your claim atm. XScorp bad then good. David bad. MoI good. dana still the worst. Countering antihero.
---
XScorp 227 wrote:Unless there are actually 3 scum, in which case he is simply misleading town.
Oh, I had been meaning to bring up that I'm not of fan of your posting like this, you know, this Jack-style of one liners. It works for Jack (although this game is not the best example) because he votes a lot and makes his opinions clear and controversial. Here you're just kind of drifting. I mean, this entire post is just, like, captain obvious.
---
David 229 wrote:For going after an "easy" target (me), and 10 pages in having his vote on someone (me) who hasn't even noticed it's been on him til now because of my absence from the game.
I almost feel like I should've never opened my big mouth about "easy" targets, meta, and what have you. I never meant for it to be used by others as a defense mechanism or counterattack. In all honesty, it doesn't matter if you are an "easy" lynch or a "hard" lynch. The scum selection is random all the same. While there is merit to the idea that scum will try for a lynch they think they can get away with, that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone voting or playing the game is thinking in this mindset.
Anyways, it probably goes without saying that I don't really care for this vote.
---
dana 233 wrote:So....gut.
Sigh. If that's all your going to take from me, then so be it. I'm trying to speak with you reasonably and calmly. I think you know that I'm not voting you out of gut. I think you feel good about my townie credentials. Regardless, you're clinging stubbornly to your position. Is it out of pride or scum desperation?
I'll tell you right now I'll take your lynch to the bank if you keep it up. It's day 1, and no one here, I don't think, is going to stick their neck out for you. This probably sounds more condescending than I mean it to be, but, hell, it's the truth. It's how I really feel. I'm not going to sugarcoat it for you or anyone else here. You're either being stubborn or being desperate, and I don't have the time or patience to hold your hand. If you are a townie then you'll have to work up the courage to see my point of view. I'm not going to roll over for, "gut! gut! gut!".
dana 234 wrote:David disappoints me as well, but seems quite town.
@ David and Stef
What more does it take to convince you that RC is scum?
Let me translate this post for you guys:
Again, not engaging David. Not engaging anyone. Not explaining his mindset. Not caring. Not town.
---
Jack 241 wrote:When I feel I have a good enough lock on the third scum I will post my reads, and choose a town seeming player (if there is one interested) to debate them with.
Let me know when you're ready.
A similar point I want to bring up, since it's on my mind, is I hope HC gets to get his hands dirty some. He's been asking some questions, but I want him to draw some conclusions as well. mykonian, Stef, and, to an extent, MoI seem like the only other people to have really stepped up in the offense department.
---
LynchMePls 244 wrote:I'd like to do two things:
Claim: Miller
Hey LynchMePls, glad that I get to play with you. I know you'll stick around. I feel okay about this Miller claim immediately, but I am going to go back through jelly's posts and see if I can find anything. I look forward to hearing more from you, but I think this is a good start.
---
XScorp 250 wrote:How often have you guys seen mafia claim miller? Just curious.
Hoopla did it to me and got away with it. I felt sketchy about it for a while but I never acted on it. Eventually I accepted it and the game turned out being a perfect scum game.
Regardless, I like this post a lot better than the post I responded to earlier.
---
Antihero 252 wrote:This is a really crappy vote, considering imaginality only posted once and hasn't posted elsewhere on this site while ignoring this game.
I disagree. He needs to be pressured. imaginality knows better; if he's busy then he should replace out.
Plus it's better than voting me.
---
MoI 256 wrote:That’s right. You take Antihero off your scum list but don’t even bother to move it to Xscorpian or RedCoyote who you say are scum.
This is a good point. David kind of dug himself into a hole over that list. He has to do one of two things, I think, either explain how that list has changed significantly (although he has explained me a little, he hasn't really addressed XScorp I don't think... maybe he can prove me wrong) or he has to concede that his list was not well thought out. Either way he's going to come out not looking too hot.
---
dana 257 wrote:Whatever. It will be town's loss to lynch me, so you're hurting yourselves as much as me.
If that's going to be your attitude, then maybe mafia isn't the game for you. I don't want to be cruel, but I can't stand this. Get a thicker skin and play the game. We all get voted for reasons we don't agree with. Tough. You deal with it and press on. And you try to call me out for AtE? Maybe you should practice what you preach. This isn't personal, dana. I'm trying to find scum. Pouting about it isn't doing either of us good.
dana 259 wrote:Shoot him. He's a possible scumbuddy to RC from his strange statement that his posting has improved and his wishy-washiness over him. He's not scummy for things he's done, just by connection to RC, but you could definitely do worse for an NK.
I hate how this post starts off great, but then dana neuters it before he can even get going. I'll even stomach the "Stef and RC seem like scumbuddies" if he actually had the courage to take a stand about something in this game. Instead of saying, "HC, you know what, you bring up a good point. Stef (or, hell, insert whatever name you want), I don't like this, this, and this. Explain what you mean here. Why do you think this about this?", he chickens out. "Well, I don't know, Stef isn't scummy for anything he's doing... he's a perfect player. No one is scummy... I have no other reads... Poor me..."
RC, I have been waiting very very long for that post. Now get off dana, who soaks up way too much of your energy, get some real scumhunting going and let go of your slightly careful play.
@scorpion: only once. I did it. It was way worse then this claim, which makes me believe it. If I were the vig, I wouldn't shoot lynchme tonight.
and
unvote
VOTE: stef. Pressure-vote backed up by evidence with the intention of a lynch.
Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.
@ RC
That's nothing but condescension, you're right. You go right through the logic of what I'm saying, and just call it AtE or newbiness or whatever. Just because you think you could get me lynched doesn't mean you're not scum, obviously. And about the DP thing, I never said he could be scum. I said he is disappointing but town. What is unclear/not expressing my opinion about that? You're reaching now. And the "grow thicker skin" thing shows a lack of discernment as to my situation. I'm not about to cry because people are going to lynch me and I haven't given up. But I HAVE gotten to the point of not caring if people think I'm scum and want to lynch me because they ALWAYS do.
@ HC
That's odd. It's almost like you expect me to tunnel on RC again, and when I don't, you almost seem to find it scummy. Yes, I would want you to shoot RC, of course, but that was not the question. If all I could decide was whether or not you would shoot Stef, I would tell you to shoot him, because I don't know who else you would pick if you didn't shoot him.
mykonian 263 wrote:RC, I have been waiting very very long for that post. Now get off dana, who soaks up way too much of your energy, get some real scumhunting going and let go of your slightly careful play.
As I've said, Stef isn't a bad choice for a vote at the moment, but I don't think I'm playing too careful. I can think of at least four wagons I could get behind right now, and I'm not afraid to call any of them out. We're going to need at least one alternative lynch, and I think dana is as good as choice as any (or Stef if you want to flip the positions around, either way). The possibilities, as I see them at the moment, are David, imaginality, Stef, and dana. Of course, we've still got a bit of time to go yet, and anything could happen, but I'm thinking these players should be our main focus at the moment.
---
dana 264 wrote:You go right through the logic of what I'm saying
What logic? That I'm acting purely on gut? I mean... did you see the wall I just built? Are you serious? Do you know what gut means? Gut means that someone just get a feeling about someone's alignment. I'm the opposite of gut here, dana. In fact, I'm probably overly analytical in my analysis of you.
dana 264 wrote:And the "grow thicker skin" thing shows a lack of discernment as to my situation.
What situation? What are you talking about? One vote? For goodness sakes, dana.
HC wrote:I guess I mean what you said should be so obvious to everybody playing the game that the act of actually saying it almost feels like you're providing exposition to an outside reader who is unfamiliar with Mafia.
There's probably a better way to phrase that.
The thing that I don’t see in either of the explanations is concrete opinion on whether mykonian is scummy for making that statement. You seem to infer so but it is far from clear.
Please clarify – do you think mykonian’s statement was scummy? If not why go to trouble of pointing out a statement that is at worst null?
HC wrote:Wouldn't it be better for you to convince me to shoot RC?
I’m sure you have your reasons … but what in the hell are you doing here?
You present dana with a hypothetical situation and ask him to argue one way or the other in regards to Stef. He does so and then you ask why he didn’t address RC instead.
This reminds me of Lucy Van Pelt pulling the football away from Charlie Brown at the last second. Setting moving goal points isn’t very effective scum-hunting IMO.
XScorp wrote:How often have you guys seen mafia claim miller? Just curious.
Check out Macavitylock in the latest Large Theme Harry Potter game. His claimed in a similar situation to LMP and was indeed a miller (in this case Snape). That’s my only direct involvement with claimed millers in completed games I have participated in.
dana wrote:I have not tunneled on RC. I have made many statements not directed at him, and even more not about him specifically. I do not have any other scumreads atm, which is why it might appear I'm tunneling on RC. Strangely enough, it seems whatever he says is turned into gold by others, and the defense I make for myself is ignored or called tunneling. Whatever. It will be town's loss to lynch me, so you're hurting yourselves as much as me. I would simply advise everyone to look at the actual logic involved in our conversation without bias to who is saying what, and I think people who can successfully do this will see things in a different light.
This quote is strongly reminding me of quotes I saw from you in [REDACTED] dana. There’s a general AtE tone to the whole thing (Whataver, it will be town’s loss to lynch me). Especially considering that you only had two votes on you at the point you made it. Stef still had more and looks like a more likely lynch today.
@Everyone with a Town read on David Parker
- Why do you have that read? Especially in light of his behavior that I pointed out in 256?
MOD
– I’ll be V/LA from 4pm EDT today until sometime Monday for my regular family weekend duties and holiday events.
~V/LA noted.
Last edited by kunkstar7 on Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.
@ RC
The situation I'm talking about is not in this game, but on this site in general. I am always under pressure because multiple people find me scummy and like to ignore what I say.
So we can actually get a bandwagon going, and me not wasting a vote on someone for a weak case that noone is going to join on.
I find the best case out of Dana/Jack/Stef to be this one.
Also, @MoI: Those lists I made were mostly just to avoid being prodded/replaced and a quasi-attempt of providing input to the game, even if it was generally false and bad input. I was too sick (have been on penicilin for past week or so) to do anything, until now. I couldn't focus/read/think about anything, so I just wrote some dribble posts. I have every intention of playing and actually following the thread from now on.
DavidParker wrote:So we can actually get a bandwagon going, and me not wasting a vote on someone for a weak case that noone is going to join on.
We have a bandwagon going on Stef. And it is a really good one. Why exactly is dana better?
I like the idea of HC's probing of dana, but I'm not a fan of him setting up the question of "should I shoot Stef or not" and then after dana's reply asking "Why didn't you say I should shoot Y". It looks like trying to make him look scummy regardless of his response.
"LynchMePls is more town than all the players I've ever declared to be townies. And that's never going to change." - Drippereth
I'm at PAX this weekend, so I won't have regular access until Monday, but I can address a few points that were directed towards me. I don't think the mykonian thing was scummy, it was just odd. As for dana, I wasn't trying to set h him up at all. In fact, I honestly thought he would argue that I should spare Stef.
Look at the relationship between Stef and dana. Dana has done scummy things, yet Stef doesn't address them. Stef has done scummy things, and dana has gone on the record as describing it as "goodposting". My question to each of them was intended to probe exactly what the relationship is between the two, if any. Now as soon as I force dana to take a stance on Stef, he completely changes his mind to supporting a Stef kill. So now dana supports killing a player who has been "goodposting" for no reason other than they MIGHT be linked to another player who dana finds scummy. To me this feels like dana feels Stef is going down today and is making a clumsy attempt to bus.
My question wasn't "Should I shoot Stef or not". I asked to convince me to either shoot or spare. If dana thinks Stef is town, which he has spent most of the day implying, then the proper response to my question should absolutely be "Don't shoot Stef, Y is a much better target for reasons Z".
Also, this so-called link isn't really there; his argument is "Stef described my suspect's posting as improved, and he's not sure if we should lynch my suspect." That's hardly enough to advocate shooting Stef over Player Y.
@HC
But as we have already stated, expecting me to answer that way is unfair. You did not tell me I had a choice of you shooting anyone, just the choice of whether you would shoot Stef. If you didn't shoot him, I wouldn't know who you were going to shoot, and therefore, since he is likely scum, I would rather you shoot him.
Now, about the actual issue of whether I find him scummy, I already made it patently clear that I do not find him scummy for anything other than his connection to RC, which is glaring. That is why I can say "goodposting" but still want him dead. Please read the thread.
danakillsu wrote:@HC
But as we have already stated, expecting me to answer that way is unfair. You did not tell me I had a choice of you shooting anyone, just the choice of whether you would shoot Stef. If you didn't shoot him, I wouldn't know who you were going to shoot, and therefore, since he is likely scum, I would rather you shoot him.
Now, about the actual issue of whether I find him scummy, I already made it patently clear that I do not find him scummy for anything other than his connection to RC, which is glaring. That is why I can say "goodposting" but still want him dead. Please read the thread.
So you are fine with him shooting stef whether you think he is town or not, as long as he shoots no one else? This sounds REALLY scummy.
"LynchMePls is more town than all the players I've ever declared to be townies. And that's never going to change." - Drippereth
