Mini 1040 - Everyone's A Critic! [Game Over]

[mykonian]

Scorp get's just a fos for now but we got bigger fish to fry right now.

this is stef's first mention of scorp. This is page 2. Scorp hasn't done anything scummy, however is the first BW. this FoS... is terrible!

anyway, the same FoS is converted into a vote when Stef his argument against me fails (he backs off after scorpion and Jack state he is wrong). it is still terrible!


Run, scum, run!

Great, Stef! This is 2 pages ago, where I mention for the first time that you had no reasons for your FoS, and that your vote lacks reasons too. You have in these two pages never responded to this post by giving the reasons you had. You are now implicating you had them.

I want your reasons for that FoS, and that vote, please. Show me how I missed them

[mykonian]

Posting all Stef's posts till his scorpion vote.

Hello! Nice to be playing with some people I've played with before.

Vote David Parker

for being the first to post.

2. if scum would get the Vig ability, they would pass it around the team, thereby creating a second mafia kill. The mechanic would be useless, and almost never 2 mafia kills are balanced in a mini, so the current Vig is a townie.

tomorrow, the first thing this "vig" must do, is claim that he was the vig the first day. He is from then on a confirmed townie

.
3.

[*]

A clarification of Action Resolution:

The passing of the Vigilante ability onto another player occurs last in the series. Therefore, a kill targeted at the owner of the ability on night start will successfully eliminate the ability.

2. Hmmm...

Following the use of the Vigilante ability (or lack thereof), the current holder must select

a player

to pass the ability on to.

The ability will then move on to the selected player for their use.

The Vigilante Ability stacks with any ability you may have in your original Role PM.

What you are saying could look like you are trying to set-up false townie confirmations. Just saying.

Unvote Parker, Vote mykonian

Scorp get's just a fos for now but we got bigger fish to fry right now.

No reasons for the FoS. This was post 35.

He's using nothing but mod wifom (scum couldn't possibly get two night kills because that would be unblanced) to state that any person who has been the vig is a townie.
1. Most Mini games are unbalanced and biased towards scum, even after they are reviewed.
2. You don't know the rest of the PRs in the game.
3. You have no way of knowing if the Vig role hasn't been assigned completely random for today.

By what the mod is telling us the vig can be scum as well as town because he repeatedly used the word "player". By what mykonian is telling us,

tomorrow, the first thing this "vig" must do, is claim that he was the vig the first day. He is from then on a confirmed townie.

Therefore my problem with what he's saying. He is outguessing the mod and using that guess to call the D1 vig a confirmed townie.

Preview edit:
I've read what you are saying. You are still wrong for the reasons above.

Hmm... I was wrong. Scum having the vig ability would mean they could just pass it on among themselves and thus completely breaking the game. Mykonian is therefore probably right and not scummy for that post.

Unvote, Vote Scorp

And his vote. Still no reasons why Scorp is scum. This was post 46

[Stef]

I posted my reason for voting Scorp after I voted for him. At this moment you're just spamming.

[mykonian]

I posted my reason for voting Scorp after I voted for him. At this moment you're just spamming.

Then why the hell did you FoS him?

it implies suspicion: what were you suspicious of? Just for once

answer my question!

[Haschel Cedricson]

I posted my reason for voting Scorp after I voted for him. At this moment you're just spamming.

Restate your reason.

[Antihero]

I posted my reason for voting Scorp after I voted for him. At this moment you're just spamming.

Well, let's examine that reason then:

So... you apologize for not asking what my reasons were for voting for you. Nice. Liking my vote.

I'm still waiting for that scumtell.

Before I unvote though, Scorp, something jack noticed does strike me as a lil bit odd. I know that I initially voted you to add some pressure, however, you seem to be fine parking your vote on me without me giving any reasons and adding pressure is obviously not it. Why not ask if I don't give any reasons? Would it be because it gives you an excuse to park your vote?

Did anyone else besides me not follow any of this? Why is is scorp's responsibility to squeeze a reason out of you for

your

crap vote?

Fine, I see your reason. I just think it's complete bull. Also, talk about OMGUS.

UNVOTE: jelly jiggler
VOTE: Stef

[danakillsu]

@ HC
In what way do you want me to elaborate? Do you want me to provide specific examples?
@ Jack
It was an RVS vote. Who cares?

[Haschel Cedricson]

@ HC
In what way do you want me to elaborate? Do you want me to provide specific examples?

I want you to reconcile how he is using good logic, yet is is scummy for being confident in his good logic.

[Jack]

@ Jack
It was an RVS vote. Who cares?

I do can you compare it to his vote on you?

[MagnaofIllusion]

This is what is commonly known as a large catch-up post. Be warned …

2. if scum would get the Vig ability, they would pass it around the team, thereby creating a second mafia kill. The mechanic would be useless, and almost never 2 mafia kills are balanced in a mini, so the current Vig is a townie.

tomorrow, the first thing this "vig" must do, is claim that he was the vig the first day. He is from then on a confirmed townie

.

Despite the change to the mechanic announced I will say in general I think the bolded portion of his original statement is probably wise. It doesn’t make sense for scum to start with two kills Night 1 (faction and Vig mechanic) unless they are severally underpowered or disadvantaged. Especially in light of the fact that it dooms the Vig mechanic N2. Thus the player with the Vig power Night 1 should claim Day 2 unless he / she has something else to potentially lose.

1. Most Mini games are unbalanced and biased towards scum, even after they are reviewed.

Mykonian has previously highlighted exactly why the rest of your post was wrong (which you stipulated to shortly afterwards). I just wanted to add the following -

Also your point number 1 is pure unadulterated bullshit and your attempt to use it to support your vote was scumtastic.

Hey danakillsu, what do you think of Mykonian's play?

Why only ask dana about mykonian’s play?

scorpion we start early and catch scum early, mykonian has the right idea

On the heels of your self-vote can I take it you are claiming scum?

Scorpion, vote yourself please, I want to see something.

What exactly did you want to see? If he was foolish enough to vote for himself when he was the early number 1 wagon?

Yeah but you hadn't really been giving any reason for voting him. Works both ways.

I agree with your statement. That said given your penchant for reasonless voting you really don’t have any high ground from which to make pronouncements.

I think RedCoyote's vote of me is scummy as well. Just because I didn't have time to post when everyone else did doesn't make me scum. And yes, I am almost always an easy lynch. unvote vote: RedCoyote Don't you dare call that blatant OMGUS. It's the scummiest vote so far

You are misreping RC here. He didn’t vote you for lurking. He voted you for having not 1 post worth a damn in the game. Huge difference.

@DavidParker

– care to actually join the game as opposed to making Town / Scum pronouncements that as far as I can tell seem to originate from thin air?

Stef's looks much worse for the wear in her exchange with mykonian and others. Before I move my vote from here scum-partner DP I want to see a vote-count. It is much too early in the Day to end currently.

[danakillsu]

@ Jack
It was an RVS vote. Who cares?

I do can you compare it to his vote on you?

Nope. His vote on MoI was completely random. His vote on me was supposedly with reasoning but really not. Big difference.

@ HC
Oh, I see. The discrepancy is because I am talking about different times. He seems overconfident in his early reads that have nothing really backing them and logical recently. This is how he ends up at a null read. If he continues posting the way he is now, I would be willing to call him town.

[Haschel Cedricson]

@ HC
Oh, I see. The discrepancy is because I am talking about different times. He seems

overconfident in his early reads

that have nothing really backing them and logical recently. This is how he ends up at a null read. If he continues posting the way he is now, I would be willing to call him town.

I think his confidence in his reads

at this point

is somewhat scummy,

Try again.

[Stef]

I'm starting to see the point of RVS. Take it out of the equation and scumtells transform from actual arguments to extremely weak cases. More discussion would have been preferable before the serious voting started.

@Magna: I've got 4 votes on me. You can vote for me and put me at L-2.

I'm going to

Unvote

. Tunneling isn't helping and there's half the game I haven't been paying attention to. If I still find mykonian to be the scummiest player after the reread the vote will go back.

[Jack]

Sometimes it's best to just set aside your suspect for a few days and let the game develop, it seems that way to me anyway.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Why only ask dana about mykonian’s play?

Gotta ask somebody. It's easier to call people out for not responding if they were the only one given the task.

Speaking of which: dana, what are your thoughts on this specific post?

More discussion would have been preferable before the serious voting started.

Discussion about what?

[Haschel Cedricson]

EBWOP:

Sometimes it's best to just set aside your suspect for a few days and let the game develop, it seems that way to me anyway.

This quote is hilarious after the White Flag Mafia fiasco.

[kunkstar7]

:: VoteCount 1x4 ::

Antihero (1) -

DavidParker

MagnaofIllusion (0) -
RedCoyote (0) -
danakillsu (1) -

RedCoyote

Jack (2) -

Jack, Xscorpion

Haschel Cedricson (1) -

imaginality

jelly jiggler (0) -

XScorpion (1) -

danakillsu

Stef (3) -

mykonian, Haschel Cedricson, Antihero

imaginality (0) -
mykonian (0) -

DavidParker (1) -

MagnaOfIllusion

Not Voting (2) -

jelly jiggler, Stef

With 12 Alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

September 19, 2010 5:00PM EST.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I'm starting to see the point of RVS. Take it out of the equation and scumtells transform from actual arguments to extremely weak cases. More discussion would have been preferable before the serious voting started.

@Magna: I've got 4 votes on me. You can vote for me and put me at L-2.

I'm going to

Unvote

. Tunneling isn't helping and there's half the game I haven't been paying attention to. If I still find mykonian to be the scummiest player after the reread the vote will go back.

Oh, Stef, you have now dodged a question that was posed to you by two people. I wish I wasn't already voting you so I could threaten to vote for you if your next post didn't address why you voted for XScorpion.

[RedCoyote]

anyway, thank you for updating me on dana and antihero.

and you voted dana... for being an easy lynch?

Actually, having just seen imaginality's post, I hadn't even realized that he hadn't posted before that.

But that's not answering your question.

No, actually I don't have meta on either dana or Antihero, so I'm only making gross generalizations about them. No, I'm not voting dana for the easy lynch, because what I said was true (again, if you don't factor in imaginality, which was a mistake on my part). Everyone else in this game has said something of meaning and taken a stand for or against something. Until dana gives us something we can sink our teeth into, then I'm happy with my vote right where it is.

---

Here is another point. If we live through 3 night at least two of the people who were vigs must be townies.

What if the vig shots are wrong though?

---

Just because I didn't have time to post when everyone else did doesn't make me scum.

I do not care for this reaction at all. This is way too defensive for what is, in effect, pressure to give us something. You think I don't realize the game has only just begun? Do you think I was going to actively start rallying a wagon on you? No, of course not. I voted you for a very clear, very specific purpose.

Funnily enough, I liked the way you started you post. If you had used that post to pry more into mykonian's motivations instead of jumping on me, then I would be looking for a new home for my vote right now.

---

"Stef voted scorp without any reason" - false, I stated my reason

People, or maybe I should say I, have short memories when it comes to this stuff. We try to stay on the game as best we can, but you really shouldn't be afraid to point to evidence whenever you claim to be falsely accused of something. In this case, because it's a pretty important wagon, I went back and tried to scope this out myself, given that you couldn't be bothered to. I see your XScorp vote, I see your XScorp "FoS" a little bit above that, but I don't see any sort of explanation... at all. I don't even see something like, "I have my reasons" (which I don't like either but at least that's something you could point to) or "I'm testing for reactions".

I'm sorry, but I don't see how mykonian is in the wrong here. Your voting of him only makes you look worse, I think.

[Jack]

EBWOP:

Sometimes it's best to just set aside your suspect for a few days and let the game develop, it seems that way to me anyway.

This quote is hilarious after the White Flag Mafia fiasco.

I was in no such game.

[Jack]

What if the vig shots are wrong though?

The the logic there was wonky, I couldn't make head nor tail out of it.

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP:

Sometimes it's best to just set aside your suspect for a few days and let the game develop, it seems that way to me anyway.

This quote is hilarious after the White Flag Mafia fiasco.

I was in no such game.

XD

[Stef]

@The Scorp Fos/Vote: I've seen him react to pressure and I thought it would be a good place to put some to get reactions. Once I voted he voted right back instead of asking for reasons. That => he voted for me voting for him. If he would have had a problem with my reasons he would have asked, something I pointed out previously. It's just fishy.

@Mykonian: You constantly refusing to acknowledge that I gave a reason for my attack on scorp really rubbed me the wrong way. Antihero was able to find my posts related to the subject easily. You, instead, quoted ALL my posts which did NOT explain my reasons and said that I did not post any reasons. Why would town do that exactly?

The fos was just part of me putting pressure on him. Then his OMGUS vote on me happened. You call what I did voting and then hoping to get a case. The way I see it when you vote for pressure and you get scummy reactions you stick to your vote. THIS is the case here. Everything else is speculation together with a lie that I did not explain my actions.

@DavidParker: I guess you could be more useless. I'm guessing you shouldn't. How about you actually give some reasons for your lists and not just make everyone else figure what you mean?

@Antihero: It is scummy because of the OMGUS. Him invoking another game for not asking me why I voted for him is just fluff. Not defending yourself whatsoever is anti-town. I would never let an unexplained vote on me without even trying to find out what's behind it. My vote was not crap vote, fine, not a great one but still not crap and how could have scorp know if it's crap or not without asking? Also, my vote on mykonian was not OMGUS. Voting for the person voting for you =/= OMGUS.

This all means that Stef assumes the mod to be a complete moron. He did this, so his vote on me made sense, as I would have been wrong (if those assumptions held)

Just saw this. Refraining from calling you names and moving on. You assume A LOT in my name as to say that I would consider the mod a complete moron. Don't insult people in my name and don't use crap like this to shove in my face. Also, outguessing the mod to push arguments is something I've just recently seen done by scum. You do not know what PR's are in this game on both sides of the fence => you cannot know what would be balanced and what would not based on just one known game mechanic.

when Stef his argument against me fails (he backs off after scorpion and Jack state he is wrong).

GAH! This is just you twisting events into looking suspicious. What happened is: You said something, I disagreed and brought arguments, you brought some more arguments, I saw your point and realized that I was wrong and backed off.

You are saying that I had an argument against you, some people told me I am wrong so I just dropped it to avoid pressure which is not what happened.

@Scorp: "Oh really? If RVS votes aren't meant for discussion through pressuring, what are they meant for?" I said that your vote was obviously not to add pressure. What did you understand? Also, do you think I am scum? If yes, why?

@Antihero: I asked you something here. Would you mind elaborating? Or is it just easy to jump on the biggest wagon while bringing no contribution?

Jelly Jiggler is just giving me an eye bleed. Don't see any scummy intent though.

@RC:

That is, he's a more difficult lynch than, say, Antihero or dana, which seem like they may roll over more

easily

Why exactly would you try and figure out who is

EASIER

to lynch? And then you vote for ... dana? God...

lol@the scorp unvote on me. didn't even see it ... gah, I need to pay more attention.

doesn't make Stef look better, does it?

This looks to me like you're happy your theory got support. Too bad it's from one of the least helpful players in the game.

Also your point number 1 is pure unadulterated bullshit and your attempt to use it to support your vote was scumtastic.

No. It has been discussed over and over again that the typical 12P game is biased towards scum with an average of 66% chance of scum to win. A general accepted suggestion is to add an additional player to the mini setups to help balance the game. While reviewers do balance the game further, the norm is still the typical 12p game which is inheritedly biased. Also, I said most. Anyway, this has something to do with the MAFIA game construct, not "Everyone's a critic" mafia and mafia balancing theory is not going to help.

Also I'm a damn HE not a SHE.

------------------
Preview edit: grr...

HC: It's the first time I'm in a game which emerges so quickly out of RVS. Just seems.. blunt and not particularly more effective than the old fashioned way.

RC: So yes, you voted for dana because it was convenient. Basically you were full of it and acted like you knew something you don't just for the sake of posting.

Also, Dana's argument that not posting when everybody else does is a good point, how do you see it as too defensive?

Also, how can antihero QUOTE my reason and people still not see it?

Before I unvote though, Scorp, something jack noticed does strike me as a lil bit odd. I know that

I (...) voted you to add some pressure

, however, you seem to be fine parking your vote on me without me giving any reasons and adding pressure is obviously not it. Why not ask if I don't give any reasons? Would it be because it gives you an excuse to park your vote?

----------------------------

Overall mykonian comes off as scummy due to the fact that he appears to have been lying. However, most people apparently missed my post so I'm giving him the benefit of a doubt. I still can't see any town reasons to make up evidence like the

What happened is: You said something, I disagreed and brought arguments, you brought some more arguments, I saw your point and realized that I was wrong and backed off.

You are saying that I had an argument against you, some people told me I am wrong so I just dropped it to avoid pressure which is not what happened.

but I guess I'm gonna give it a little bit more time.

Jack: I get it that you're experimenting but you not putting a vote down on someone else is anti-town for two reasons and you know it. Use your vote.

Vote RC

[Jack]

I'm very happy with this game so far, I have three good town reads and three slight scum reads, I don't believe tying yourself into a mental framework is epistemically sound, and that makes it anti-town not pro-town, furthermore a mix of approaches from the town leads to the best results and everyone is different in how they work well, ergo, concordantly, vis a vis...

[Stef]

Are you calling tunneling to be tying yourself to a mental framework or voting for people you suspect? I didn't understand anything passed that. Could you please rephrase in more common English?