Newbie 985 Game over

[Kalofer]

ROFL, are you kidding me? I've been repeating myself again and again, and since I really doubt explaining myself is going to change your mind I won't bother, look at my previous posts which in short version are this: no scum would be reckless enough to risk so much just so his scum buddy wouldn't be lynched whether roleblocker or not, no scum would stick his neck so far out and furthermore no scum would kill someone who supported him (zach and his support on your wagon).

[tvellalott]

You seem so desperate NOT to get lynched Kalofer that it's hard not to let doubts about your townieness creep in...

[Kalofer]

I know right but If you manage to exclude the shouting and accusing and insulting (sorry) I'm really just trying to defend myself with a bit of logic, it may be scummy to want to survive, but when you're town you'd want to survive so that town won't get weakened. Still I doubt you'd change your mind from this post like you didn't from all others. And since this has been going on in my head I thought I'd ask all of you, should I just hammer myself?

[Abe27342]

IMO, no you shouldn't. The information of who hammers you is useful info, and in general town shouldn't self hammer (If you care to claim scum, by all means--hammer! XP).

[FakeGod]

From my experience, town self-hammer is generally frowned upon (there are some cases where you'd want to divide the town in certain way with it, but very rare), while scum self-hammer is considered a legitimate move (because it shuts down discussion and stops additional info on who hammered from town).

[FakeGod]

Kal, the reason I asked you to explain is because I couldn't quite follow what you wrote in your posts.

For example,

no scum would be reckless enough to risk so much just so his scum buddy wouldn't be lynched whether roleblocker or not, no scum would stick his neck so far out and furthermore no scum would kill someone who supported him (zach and his support on your wagon).

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, which is why I asked. *shrug*

On the other hand, have you read my reasoning?

I would love to clarify anything you disagree with, so feel free to point out whatever you want.

[Excedrin]

Vote Count

tvellalott (1): NashiNashi
Kalofer (2): FakeGod, Abe27342
NashiNashi (1): Kalofer

not voting: tvellalott
alive: 5 majority: 3

[Kalofer]

Why would it be useful who hammers me when you both said it would be better if I die and when Fake asked either Tvell or Nashi to hammer me, that's like him pretty much hammering me himself.
And fake, you're basically saying that I'm scum because you think I worked very hard to defend the roleblocker so that if there are any PR's the cop doesn't find me or the doctor want stop a kill. But I disagree with this because if I were scum knowing that my roleblocker is under a lot of pressure I'd try to make as little of a ruckus as possible so that if there is a cop he won't investigate me. I started a wagon on you with the full ignorance that Nik was scum or a roleblocker for that matter and I started it because the reasons you voted for Nik seemed scummy to me as they seemed scummy to Zach who supported it. Then if I was scum I wouldn't just kill zach who supported me both in thinking that you were scum and in thinking that I'm town, why would I kill someone who supports me and who I could later frame when I could just as easily kill someone else without giving my identity away.

[FakeGod]

I'm glad I asked, because there seems to be a bit of misunderstanding.

I think you're scum not because you worked very hard to defend the roleblocker per se, but because the mafia simply wouldn't have bussed their roleblocker yesterday, meaning they wouldn't have placed any votes on their roleblocker. This practically clears everyone on Nik wagon, and by process of elimination, you have to be the last mafia.

[Kalofer]

Why wouldn't they have bussed their roleblocker? Scum would do anything to avoid attracting suspicion and if I am scum then I have failed and I mean epic-ly FAILED to do this. Like I said even if there are PR's the mafia, wanting to avoid suspicion will buss the roleblocker so as to avoid enough suspicion for the cop to investigate him. Furthermore once again you seem to have no explanation for the Zach killed, why would I if i were scum kill him, Zach who also thought I was town and supported me when I could have killed you Nashi or Abe who have a neutral tell on me and are hence likelier to suspect and question me.

[Kalofer]

I wonder if you see the irony in it, in day 1 the only thing we had on DP was his acting incredibly unorthodox (and the his request to mod kill me which wasn't really important) and he turned out to be town. The next day we or at least I had absolutely nothing to incriminate Nikanor, the only thing you had was lurking but that is a null tell because you can never know why a person simply isn't posting. Funnily enough he turned out to be scum. And what you have on me now is just that I was against the lynch of a person who later turned out to be scum.

[FakeGod]

If mafia were to buss their roleblocker, they risk insta-loss tomorrow, as well as giving away the setup information to town and PRs.

This is something they would never do because 1) Nik (roleblocker) was not in any imminent danger when d1 ended, and 2) if they choose to bus, they could always bus the goon instead of the roleblocker.

I don't see any way around this, Kal.

[Kalofer]

well obviously you've been looking at things really bad because:
1) YOU'RE WRONG
2) YOU'RE VERY WRONG
3) YOU'RE SO VERY VERY WRONG
and I'm waiting for the hammer to prove it.
Please tell me WHY "If mafia were to buss their roleblocker, they risk insta-loss tomorrow, as well as giving away the setup information to town and PRs."
because you just don't make sense, and I know you don't make sense because:
1) YOU'RE WRONG
2) YOU'RE VERY WRONG
3) YOU'RE SO VERY VERY WRONG

[Kalofer]

All of you (and probably me though I haven't paid attention to what I've said) here are a bunch of hypocrites, you have ALL (maybe except nashi but what did he say anyway) and as such all of you seem scummy to me.
@Mod isn't nashi due for a prod yet? I wouldn't want to self hammer before hearing everyone to tell the FAREWELL FAILURES
(and sorry for the post after post thing, I know I shouldn't be doing it but my mind works on a spontaneous basis in which idea is followed by idea so that I end up typing a lot of short posts down. I easily forget ideas and have to type them down when they come and I wouldn't want to keep notes because that would be a waste of trees).

[FakeGod]

Sure, I'll tell you.

Fact:

Mafia knows there must be either doc and cop, or no prs.

If there are doc and cop, and mafia busses roleblocker, then today there would be doc + cop and a mafia goon.

With mass claim, there would be doc, cop, and 3 townies. (if mafia cc's one of the prs, we lynch both prs and win the game)

We rl one of the townies, and cop will inspect another. Doc will be on cop.

Next day, it comes down to 1 cop, 1 confirmed town, and 1 fake townie. GG.

Conclusion:

Instant loss for mafia with no way out, had it been the setup with the prs.


Also, regarding my statement about giving away the setup information:

If mafia roleblocker is lynched, then townies will know that this is setup 1 or 2. And if there were any prs, they will know that this is setup 1.

If mafia goon is lynched, then townies know nothing. And if there were any prs, they know nothing.

Not a difficult choice for mafia should they decide to bus.

[Kalofer]

After a townie lynched in Day1, a townie being killed in night 1, and another one in night 2 with no one claiming to have done something or being someone, the chances are really against there being power roles. Once again you simply assume too much and you can't tell me why if I were scum I would kill Zach. Once again your logic is founded upon probability and as such it cannot entirely be trusted and is if I may add WRONG because I am a townie. Tell me, when I flip town, what will you do, lynch Nashi because he has been lurking? You willing to take that gamble? Then again it is all you have been doing.

[tvellalott]

Probability is a very strong reason in a game of chance.

[Kalofer]

While I do admit that his theory has a higher probability of occurring than mine it is ultimately wrong. Of course when you're gambling you'd want to place your money where you have the highest chance of winning even though it may not be successful. Still there is one part in the theory that completely doesn't compute and that is: why kill zach? Why kill someone who PR's can also investigate? If you can cover that part by giving me an answer other than "WIFOM to defend yourself" I will admit to being outplayed and defeated as even though I would still be town at least the facts will claim otherwise.

[FakeGod]

@Kal: I cannot give you a satisfactory answer on why zach was killed. maybe scum was pr-hunting. maybe scum was framing you. I honestly have no idea.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong and you're town, but please understand that I really don't see any other plausible explanation, and is waiting for tvell/Nashi's hammer.

[Excedrin]

Vote Count

tvellalott (1): NashiNashi
Kalofer (2): FakeGod, Abe27342
NashiNashi (1): Kalofer

not voting: tvellalott
alive: 5 majority: 3

[NashiNashi]

I'm going to stick to my suspecion. Kalofer's getting more and more scummy, but still comes across as an unskilled player - less scummy than tvellalott IMO.

I don't think we can afford a mislynch right now, as if we get a townie, I'm pretty sure the unskilled, scummy town players like myself will live through, who will get lynched tomorrow and that's that.

[tvellalott]

I'm going to stick to my suspecion. Kalofer's getting more and more scummy, but still comes across as an unskilled player - less scummy than tvellalott IMO.

I don't think we can afford a mislynch right now, as if we get a townie, I'm pretty sure the unskilled, scummy town players like myself will live through, who will get lynched tomorrow and that's that.

Did you just admit that you yourself are scummy?

[NashiNashi]

I admitted myself being an unskilled player. Again tvellalott, nice try but no cookie.

[Kalofer]

Why am I seeming more and more scummy, you're just saying something and not giving explanations for it and why do I seem unskilled what would a "skilled" player have done in my place genius? I've been trying to scumhunt while everyone was voting for me, what have you done? I've posted why I think a lot of people can be scum I just can't make up my mind who more so than everyone else. That post you just wrote there makes you and not me seem all the more scummier. TAKE THAT FOR UNSKILLED AND NEWB!

[Kalofer]

Why are you waiting for Nashi or Tvell to hammer why don't you just ask me? Oh wait I forgot it somehow gives you more info who lynched me but you're the one who gave the order. WTF is this? And in my last game people didn't stop saying how dumb it is for a townie to self hammer but now I see how dumb I've been in trying to convince you all this time *sigh*