1025 Tarot Mafia (Over!)

[UncertainKitten]

Well I wouldn't expect you to admit it's a trap, nor do I think you Mr. Gambit. I merely think it'd be a kinda clever sort of thing to do and a possible thing to keep in mind should Death come out later.

[StrangerCoug]

I am not DGB. I play the game at face value. It is rare, indeed, for me to engage in a gambit or trap. For some reason, everyone thinks I do it all the time these days. I claimed PGO as JK in one goddamn game and now I'm Mr. Gambit. So... this is not a gambit or a trap. If it was (it's not) I wouldn't admit that it was anyway (it's really not) so you should stop arguing about the chance that it's a trap (because, you know, it's not).

The person who played the Death card is town

so long as I am town (and I am), so just remember that after I get NKed.

You, Mr. Gambit? Since when?

The dark red text is noteworthy as a likely mod edit; specifically, I can clear who played it too. I'd like Ythill to keep going, though, and if he fails, I'll play the card I've been talking about.

[MacavityLock]

Let me rephrase my point. DTM threatens to investigate me. I tell him to bring it on. Then you're all,

OMG, Yth is leading the cop to a sub-optimal target

. Frankly, it looks like you're twisting my meaning and I don't like it.

I think you've got it exactly. DTM put you on his "I'd investigate you" list. You said "go for it". I can see that as encouraging bad play, which I think can be scummy, therefore I'm questioning you about it. I'm not sure where the meaning-twisting is there.

I mean, why don't you have a problem with DTM leading the cop card(s)?

He made a reasonable case for putting you on his "to investigate" list, and (barring the two of you being scumbuddies) doesn't know whether or not you're a sub-optimal target. Why would I have a problem with it?

----

Today's Card: The Queen of Pentacles

Today's Card has been changed to: Death

Not really if Dram announces what cards are played in the day. If 2 cards are played both the Queen of Pentacles and Death were played.

Was this the response to my question?

[Ythill]

Well I wouldn't expect you to admit it's a trap, nor do I think you Mr. Gambit. I merely think it'd be a kinda clever sort of thing to do and a possible thing to keep in mind should Death come out later.

Thanks for claiming scum.

The dark red text is noteworthy as a likely mod edit

Nope. Mod edits are bolded brown. I'll start using a different emphasis color, I suppose. And here's a rhyme for you: think real hard, don't play the card.

I think you've got it exactly. DTM put you on his "I'd investigate you" list. You said "go for it". I can see that as encouraging bad play, which I think can be scummy, therefore I'm questioning you about it. I'm not sure where the meaning-twisting is there.

The twist is you making it more serious than it was. Whereas he was actually suggesting that investigations go a certain way, I was merely shooting him a for it. What were my other possible responses? Instruct him not to investigate me? Ignore him? I'm assuming you'd paint those things as scummy as well. So what you're saying here is that DTM making that statement means I'm scum, which is ridiculous.

I am happy that we found the entire scumteam. Switz, Mac, and UK might as well mark this one down as a loss. Yay.

[StrangerCoug]

You're a confident player, Ythill.

[Kise]

@Mac Lock: Null/Nothing-tell. When players debate in mafia discussion, they shouldn't have anything to gain by lying. What I implied with my comment is that your stance on usage of investigators reminds me of something more fitting for MD, therefore there's no definitive way to assess your post and determine a town or scum motive.

Yeah, BBL - only on my break.

[MacavityLock]

The twist is you making it more serious than it was. Whereas he was actually suggesting that investigations go a certain way, I was merely shooting him a for it.

OK, that's fine. You're saying that your response to DTM was not meant to be taken seriously. I don't think we need to go any deeper than that on the issue.

What were my other possible responses? Instruct him not to investigate me? Ignore him? I'm assuming you'd paint those things as scummy as well. So what you're saying here is that DTM making that statement means I'm scum, which is ridiculous.

Actually, no, neither of those things strike me as particularly more scummy than what you did, but there are also other responses you could have made. Defending against the case in an effort to move yourself of the "investigate list" without direct instruction, for example. Also, I dislike that you're detailing what "I would have done". Don't presume.

Just FYI, Yth, while you are in my top half of my scum list right now, you're not in my top 3. Please note the difference between questioning and accusing.

----

Preview edit: Kise, thank you for clarifying.

[Ythill]

@SC:

Me? Confident?

@Mac:

Just FYI, the difference between questioning and accusing is seriously blurred in the loaded question you posted. "If you're town, shouldn't you want investigations to go toward scum rather than get wasted on a townie?"

[UncertainKitten]

No prob Ythill. Except i'm not, but hey, what can ya do.

[MacavityLock]

@Mac:

Just FYI, the difference between questioning and accusing is seriously blurred in the loaded question you posted. "If you're town, shouldn't you want investigations to go toward scum rather than get wasted on a townie?"

How so? I'm going to gauge your response, and answering "No, and here's why: X, Y, Z" is a legitimate response. I probably won't agree with that response, but that response will hopefully help me decide whether what you did was scummy or it's a play-style thing.

And if that's a loaded question, than so is every other question ever asked. Just phrase everything as "If you're town, shouldn't you not blah blah blah instead of blah blah blah-ing like you did?" and you're all set.

[Ythill]

@UK:

Well, how am I suppose to take your statement then? To me, it sounded like:

I don't think Yth is being tricky so the person who played Death is town but I thought up an argument I can use to lynch him anyway.

@Mac:

You're losing credibility. There were many ways you could have worded that question for information gathering. It was your decision to make it sound like an accusation. Which is fine, because there's nothing wrong with suspecting people. What I have a problem with is you backtracking and explicitly saying that it wasn't meant to be an accusation. And, now, building a strawman about how all questions are as loaded as that one.

[UncertainKitten]

@Ythill: Pay attention to earlier posts maybe? It is pretty apparent now that Death is town. You've staked too much on it. But when I brought it up the stake wasn't quite as high. You've reaffirmed it in such a way that Death has to be town then (unless you are scum).
That statement was supposed to cover my views when I brought it up, not my current views.

[MacavityLock]

Yth, find me one post wherein I accuse you of being scum, and I'll give you a cookie (and you can accuse me of backtracking).

[Switz]

Okay, since apparently my defenses aren't good enough for any of you, I'm prepared to play the last card I have, which, incidentally, consists of my cards. It looks like I'm going to end up dead soon anyways, so I may as well try to be helpful to the town while I still can.

My cards are the Emperor and the Hierophant. Both have blocking abilities, which I will fullclaim if you (the town as a whole) think I should. I'm sure Ythill, at least, will have some guesses, regardless of his alignment, but I'd prefer to keep scum in the dark so they don't just evade my blocks and go about their business.

Since I don't know if my cards will still have power in Twilight, I figure it makes more sense for you to direct me while I'm still alive--or, better yet, lynch actual scum toDay so we don't have to worry about it.

[StrangerCoug]

I'd try to hit scum with those, Switz. Jarti's good, as could be MacavityLock.

[MacavityLock]

Really, SC? You're not even going to

consider

the possibility that's he's a mafia roleblocker?

[StrangerCoug]

Really, ML? You're going to suggest that it is in my best interests to help scum?

[Jarti]

I'd try to hit scum with those, Switz. Jarti's good, as could be MacavityLock.

Lol at suggesting on using them on the guy who claimed no cards.

[StrangerCoug]

Who knows? Maybe you lied and

DO

have a card.

[Switz]

Or worse yet, maybe you told the truth and you're a cardless Serial Killer.

[Ythill]

Mac:

I already did. Make my cookie penut-butter chocolate chip, please.

Switz:

Damnit, I don't want the Emperor played today, like I already said. It probably will not matter anyway, because it will not go into affect until night and, with you being dead, it may not have any effect at all. I'm wondering if I should change my plans and keep you alive to play it...

You're not even going to

consider

the possibility that's he's a mafia roleblocker?

I might as well answer this too. In the case of the Emperor, it doesn't matter what Switz's alignment is and him using it as directed is entirely verifiable (by me) overnight.

Yes, that's me having more privelaged information. I bet you're all wondering what my role is, huh?

[StrangerCoug]

I bet you're all wondering what my role is, huh?

I must admit that you make me curious about it, but I'm going to shut up about it. You're not at the top of my town list, but you're not at the top of my scum list either.

[DTMaster]

I'm making my draft but I have to post this while I'm finishing my wall of responses.

Holy crap, my scumdar just went off.

YTHILL WHAT THE CRAP DUDE

If you can role confirm Switz, as town we can direct Switz. If Switz is scum, we have him on a leash. If Switz is town we still have him on the leash and he'll listen to us. If Switz is scum and doesn't follow the town, you catch him. You pushing the Switz lynch as of now rings my scumdar.

[DTMaster]

Switz is not the correct lynch today due to the checks and balances that Ythill just claimed. Likewise, Switz becomes a counter balance to Ythill if Switz is town. Anyone who disagrees better have a good reason for it otherwise they are ridiculously scummy.

[Ythill]

You pushing the Switz lynch as of now rings my scumdar.

WTF? I stopped pushing it as soon as he claimed his cards. Note that I can only confirm the Emperor card. And I'm still not sure leashing him is a good idea. The Emperor has a decent chance of hurting the town no matter how he plays it and, if we set ourselves up against it, it will have no benefit. I know that probably doesn't make sense ATM, but to explain in detail would be anti-town. (BTW, some of this is speculation on my part, but it is based on solid facts.)

Anyway...

I'm in the process of moving. Time and internet access will be limited for 3-5 days. I'll try to check in at least once every day or so, but please consider me V/LA until Friday.

UNVOTE: Switz