Newbie 993 - Game Over!

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

NOTE: I have changed the intro post and the RULES post to my rules set. It looks a lot like hohum's rules set because he swiped it from me

PLEASE read over the current rules set. Some things may have changed, and I will NOT accept the "but I was doing what hohum posted in his rules" excuse. You have been warned. I have not altered the sample Role PMs, as they've already been sent out.

Additionally, Trachimbrod has not responded to a prod during the Night cycle and I am currently searching for a replacement. IF Trach had a Night action, I have randomized said action via random.org so that you can't metagame the Night actions, so don't even try


Thanks,

Vel

[Mysterio]

@startransmission, that day lasted a few weeks. How did you manage to never place a single vote?

[Hinduragi]

Bah, go town.

[Chimp Pants]

VOTE: Thian
My initial read on Thian was town because I though he was asking good questions. After charting out the votes and doing some isos, something seems wrong. His D1 play reads like he could be cheerleading bandwagons. In Post 148 he lists Myst as his top candidate without a vote or even fos. His play style seems very careful.

[Kirbyoshi]

Caution is not a scumtell.
VOTE: Chimp Pants
Case coming when I feel less like I'm about to die.

[Thian]

Chimp Pants:

You asked me why I didn't put my vote onto anyone else after my wrongly placed vote on someone who was not in a game. I wanted better participation levels, I wanted proper vote counts and the game seemed really unorganized until the new mod came in.

Leech and Mysterio's debate had really taken the front seat, 2 other people replaced out who were also on my top 3 list.

Kirbyoshi, why do you feel you are about to die? has anyone indicated to you that you were going to be lynched?

[Kirbyoshi]

Thian: *facepalm* I totally meant irl. I am dead tired. Like, I forgot how amazingly tired college can make you. Just getting back into the swing of things.

[Kirbyoshi]

@mod: Could we get some prods on Leech, star, and Brod?

[startransmission]

@startransmission, that day lasted a few weeks. How did you manage to never place a single vote?

Well, there was never a good RVS. The Mysterio/Leech debacle was completely uninteresting to me. That's not to say, however, that I deem either as town, or won't refer to their interaction later on. I found the D1 lynchee interesting, but my comments were pretty much on his behalf. I didn't place a vote because I didn't find a worthy place to put it. Partly my fault, I could've pressed harder.

That said, it certainly won't happen a second day. I'm sorry I'm late to the party, but for the three days off I had this game was in Night mode. This is now my only game, and it will remain that way until it is over.

[Leech]

I've been extremely busy lately, so sorry about not having time to post until now. (I'm posting this in all my games, at the moment.)

Vote: kirbyoshi

You are not scumhunting. Also this:

VOTE: Chimp Pants
Case coming when I feel less like I'm about to die.

Is the second time:

Vote: Hinduragi
Reasoning coming late

that you have voted, stating you will explain the reasoning later, and both times have failed to do so. You have participated in entirely too much IIoA for my liking, and have nearly added nothing to this game, at all. In fact, here's your horrid ISO:

6-20 are all either fluff, fence sitting, IIoA, or complaining. There is literally no scumhunting in any of these posts. That is a frightening portion of your game to have, almost literally, done nothing.

21: You parrot and pretty much say "that's what I was thinking" when the topic was "Active Lurking" which is a concept you should not be unfamiliar with. You specifically stated you were "trying to put your finger on" it, yet you shouldn't have had a hard time figuring that out if you were actually paying attention. Your reaction here shows me that you aren't really scumhunting. You are parroting.

22- IIoA, again.

23- Fluff, again.

26- You add absolutely nothing other than your vote. "His post wasn't bad, his play since has been." That helps no one. Everyone can see that. You were deliberately being vague and that vote is extremely opportunistic.

29- Appeal to emotion with shotty, then you actually have the balls to ask him for explanation when you've not given any, yourself, this entire game.

31- I'll quote this one:

@everyone: Who is most likely to be scum if shotty flips town? What if he flips scum?

This is almost the scummiest question you can ask near the end of a day phase. Keep in mind, if Kirby is scum, the second question is worthless. There is absolutely no reason for town to ask this question, at this time, period. The reason this question would be asked, is either for scum to keep around the scummiest player, or kill them for wifom. The only question that is scummier than that is: "So, guys, who should I kill?"

32- Fluffy pointless question that has absolutely no trace of scumhunting

35- Makes a promise to Hindu, never follows through. Also if he was talking about tomorrow as in "this phase" tomorrow, isn't it kind of funny that Hindu died in the night? He wouldn't have to keep that promise, would he?

36- Appeal to emotion about playing horribly.

37- Fluffy vote says he'll make a case but doesn't even though he's clearly actively monitoring this thread

39- Requesting prods. Interesting if he's still "feeling like he's going to die" which is preventing him from making his case, why does he want prods? Wouldn't that add more information that he'd probably wouldn't want to read because he's, feeling like he's going to die? I never take excuses like that seriously. If you have the time to read the thread, and you've had the time to establish an opinion on someone based on what you've read, it simply does not take long to post the reason for it. This paired with the fact that this is, about, the third time he's done this in this game, I'm calling BS on his excuse. He's had time to build his case, and he's clearly keeping up on the thread. There's simply no reason he hasn't provided the case he said he would. He's just, simply, not planning on it. Why would he, though? He got away with it the last two times.

The last damning fact about you is that you have blatantly ignored me on a few occasions. My ISO 24, is a prime example of this. You made a comment that could be taken two ways. I asked for clarification, and you never even attempted to clarify it. You ignore the questions directed at you, and simply post fluff and IIoA in place of a response.

I'm extremely tired, so hopefully all of this makes sense. If not, I'll clarify and answer any questions after I get a night of sleep.

[Chimp Pants]

@Star: Who do you think is scum?

[Mysterio]

@startransmission, that day lasted a few weeks. How did you manage to never place a single vote?

Well, there was never a good RVS. The Mysterio/Leech debacle was completely uninteresting to me. That's not to say, however, that I deem either as town, or won't refer to their interaction later on. I found the D1 lynchee interesting, but my comments were pretty much on his behalf. I didn't place a vote because I didn't find a worthy place to put it. Partly my fault, I could've pressed harder.

That said, it certainly won't happen a second day. I'm sorry I'm late to the party, but for the three days off I had this game was in Night mode. This is now my only game, and it will remain that way until it is over.

Okay, but what your Day 1 play shows to me is a complete lack of scumhunting. I can sort of understand weak scumhunting on Day 1, but it seemed as if you were simply responding to things and not actually trying to find scum. At some point you need to be voting

someone

if for no other reason than to pressure them for a response. I have never seen a game where completely abstaining from voting helped town. It also goes without saying that lack of scumhunting is a scumtell.

FoS: startransmission

You asked me why I didn't put my vote onto anyone else after my wrongly placed vote on someone who was not in a game. I wanted better participation levels, I wanted proper vote counts and the game seemed really unorganized until the new mod came in.

Sorry, but this is an incredibly weak response. You need the mod to post vote counts before you'll vote? How about you count the votes yourself and scumhunt? Lack of participation shouldn't stop you from pressuring and analyzing posts, it simply means your votes will probably be limited to the people actively playing. Or you could vote the people not playing and pressure them into playing and not lurking. Nothing about Day 1 should have stopped you from placing votes, nor does it explain why you kept your RVS vote on a player that wasn't in the game. You didn't even bother unvoting, which says to me you never had any intention of voting until Shotty came around and gave you an easy target to finally vote for.

Vote: Thian

[Leech]

@Myst: That was a good post, but why are you voting for the guy that actually did vote, over the guy that didn't cast a single vote? I see your logic in both cases, but I'm curious as to why someone who you don't feel is scumhunting at all, takes a back seat to the guy who did actually vote, has been active, and has actually contributed?

[Thian]

[

You asked me why I didn't put my vote onto anyone else after my wrongly placed vote on someone who was not in a game. I wanted better participation levels, I wanted proper vote counts and the game seemed really unorganized until the new mod came in.

Sorry, but this is an incredibly weak response. You need the mod to post vote counts before you'll vote? How about you count the votes yourself and scumhunt? Lack of participation shouldn't stop you from pressuring and analyzing posts, it simply means your votes will probably be limited to the people actively playing. Or you could vote the people not playing and pressure them into playing and not lurking. Nothing about Day 1 should have stopped you from placing votes, nor does it explain why you kept your RVS vote on a player that wasn't in the game. You didn't even bother unvoting, which says to me you never had any intention of voting until Shotty came around and gave you an easy target to finally vote for.

prods are nice, organization is nice. Mistakes can happen mysterio. Look at when you hammered Shotty, hinduragi got confused. The votes counts are there for a reason to not cause confusion and the host is there to move the game along with proper prods.

I have been asking question, and scumhunting. So not putting a vote until I saw a person who warrented my vote for behaving scummy and being a complete distraction to the town is scummy? That makes no sense.

Also you say Lack of participation should not stop me from pressuring and analyzing posts?

If one does not post ((lack of participation)) then what posts are there to analyze except for the only content between you and leech? I am not sure if you are aware as well Mysterio that, if my votes are limited to the people who are actually active due to content to analyze as you also stated, it could be 2 or 3 townies going after each other how is that proper scum hunting? Thats just fishing to make potential townies look guilty enough to warrant a vote.

Why did you even state "you didn't even bother unvoting?" if I voted on a mistake for someone who was not in the game, is there a reason to unvote? not really because that vote is already void. That person should not have been posting in the thread reserved for this game he was not apart of.

Mysterio. You hammered Shotty for reasons of him being "too incompetent to play the game" incompetency is a scum tell? or should incompetency be questioned first before coming to the conclusion he is scummy enough to hammer?

I would actually like to go back to Chimp Pants concern here too where in post 317 he addresses Kirbyoshi's response to hinduragi. Kirbyoshi, why were you so certain you were not going to get killed? just incase you missed it.

Also Hinduragi asked for a response from you Kirbyoshi. Why did you stall and say "Hindu: I will Tomorrow, promise"? instead you could have responded to hinduragi with a proper answer when hinduragi asked you to.

[Thian]

Star: post 270 you stated that you don't engage in D1 much. Why?

[startransmission]

335, 336, and 339 I'll respond to in the next couple of hours. I just woke up and it's my Saturday. I work 4 12 hour shifts on Thursdays thru Sundays, so posting during that time is usually spotty for me.

[Thian]

^^^^^
hope to hear your responses soon.

Start, I know you have given your work schedule and stuff.
I do sympathize with this being an honest post but it can be looked at two ways of playing off a truthful situation.

first way. you really are busy and do not have time. Which I can really appreciate. Working 12 hour shifts is quite taxing on the brain and can be physically and mentally exhausting. Piled up with life as well and the inability to hang out for hours on end infront of a computer and that being a day off to do what you want to do.

second way, you are busy but have enough time to post updates on more content to come. This is a little frusterating. Are you playing on the fact that the majority of everyone else is not participating so you decide to hide and get away with as little content as possible and avoid being prodded or replaced?

I just want to see something from you Start its going almost 12 hours after you stated you would post in a few hours which is more than enough time to post something even if its a small paragraph that is dedicated to scum hunting.

Also I have a question to you Start. Post 101 you stated "People vote for a variety of reasons make sure you hammer or even put someone at L-1 for good ones"

Would you say Mysterio's reasons for hammering were good?

Mysterio post 281

He posted 5 times since being at L-1, never even hinting that he was going to claim anything. My guess is he doesn't have anything to claim, otherwise he would have done it after Leech put him at L-1. If he does have something to claim, then all that does is show once more that he has no idea how to play this game.

This post seems off to me. You are justifying your hammer on someone who doesn't have any role to claim? or are you justifying your hammer on his incompetency to play the game?

[Chimp Pants]

@Kirby: Are you feeling up to giving a reason for your vote yet?

[startransmission]

Okay, but what your Day 1 play shows to me is a complete lack of scumhunting. I can sort of understand weak scumhunting on Day 1, but it seemed as if you were simply responding to things and not actually trying to find scum. At some point you need to be voting

someone

if for no other reason than to pressure them for a response. I have never seen a game where completely abstaining from voting helped town. It also goes without saying that lack of scumhunting is a scumtell.

I don't disagree. But with no RVS, and with much of the debate being large walls o text that on initial read held little of interest to me it was hard to conjur a good reason to vote for any particular player.

@Star: Who do you think is scum?

My focus right now is on the Shotty wagon. I don't have a strong scum read on Leech at the moment, and I have a similar feeling about Chimp Pants. While I'm going to look at all players, process of elimination should give you an idea where my focus will be.

Star: post 270 you stated that you don't engage in D1 much. Why?

I used to. It's not so much of a lack of engagement as it is a lassez faire approach. I personally really value a lively RVS, and that is often when I post the most on D1. When I'm an IC I do my best to answer questions etc. for the newbie players that might feel lost. This game neither of those things happened. D1 is often full of town on town crime, debates that yield little to nothing, and most of the time a townie lynch. D2 and on there are flips and wagons to analyze, and that's when I personally start to form theories. When that happens I begin to apply pressure and place votes, and my activity snowballs.

That said, I'm not at all proud that I've recently formed that habit. It's not particularly helpful, it's lazy. I don't make a point of it, but it can happen when a D1 like the one we had crops up.

first way. you really are busy and do not have time. Which I can really appreciate. Working 12 hour shifts is quite taxing on the brain and can be physically and mentally exhausting. Piled up with life as well and the inability to hang out for hours on end infront of a computer and that being a day off to do what you want to do.

second way, you are busy but have enough time to post updates on more content to come. This is a little frusterating. Are you playing on the fact that the majority of everyone else is not participating so you decide to hide and get away with as little content as possible and avoid being prodded or replaced?

First way. There's no advantage for scum or town to not participate. As I've said before, I feel bad enough about how D1 turned out that I am going to make this my only game while it is in progress.

Also I have a question to you Start. Post 101 you stated "People vote for a variety of reasons make sure you hammer or even put someone at L-1 for good ones"

Would you say Mysterio's reasons for hammering were good?

It was a policy lynch, which I don't have an enormous issue with on D1. But were the reasons good? I personally felt that Shotty was a town VI, and that's a ripe target for scum. But I don't see anything specific in the timing or manner of Myst's hammer that makes it any more suspect than any of the other votes on Shotty.

[Leech]

It was a policy lynch, which I don't have an enormous issue with on D1. But were the reasons good? I personally felt that Shotty was a town VI, and that's a ripe target for scum. But I don't see anything specific in the timing or manner of Myst's hammer that makes it any more suspect than any of the other votes on Shotty.

What? How is a VI a ripe target for scum? Sure it can be an easy lynch, but it's in the best interest of scum to keep VI's around. They interfere with scumhunting and the town making progress.

[Mysterio]

@Myst: That was a good post, but why are you voting for the guy that actually did vote, over the guy that didn't cast a single vote? I see your logic in both cases, but I'm curious as to why someone who you don't feel is scumhunting at all, takes a back seat to the guy who did actually vote, has been active, and has actually contributed?

My reasoning is that Star and Brod were consistent with their non-voting, whereas Thain switched his vote to Shotty for an easy lynch. His vote seems opportunistic to me, beyond the somewhat equal lack of voting by all three of them.

@Thian, yes prodding and vote counts serve a purpose. You won't find disagreement there. However, it still does not excuse a complete lack of participation beyond asking questions that have lead to absolutely nowhere. You're not even voting for the player you've questioned the most (Brod), who you believe is being scummy with his lack of voting. You can't use an absent mod as an excuse anymore, and yet you're still not voting! You finally switched your vote from a player that wasn't in the game to Shotty who was a total VI. That's not scumhunting and it doesn't get you off the hook.

The same goes for Star. You've come back to give an explanation, which is fine, but you're still not scumhunting or voting anyone. When do you plan on playing some Mafia?

Kirbyoshi's fluff is also very suspicious. I'm still awaiting his response to Leech.

[startransmission]

It was a policy lynch, which I don't have an enormous issue with on D1. But were the reasons good? I personally felt that Shotty was a town VI, and that's a ripe target for scum. But I don't see anything specific in the timing or manner of Myst's hammer that makes it any more suspect than any of the other votes on Shotty.

What? How is a VI a ripe target for scum? Sure it can be an easy lynch, but it's in the best interest of scum to keep VI's around. They interfere with scumhunting and the town making progress.

I take your point, but I've found that scum will usually choose to jump on a VI wagon. It's an easy wagon that won't be scrutinized as much, and it gets them to a night phase where they can kill and discuss. Yes, a smart scum will avoid that lynch, and a really smart scum may go so far as to white knight the VI wagon. My point was that the wagon was formed for the same reasons that Myst hammered, and that was a policy wagon. I find that acceptable on D1- for the reasons you brought up.

[Thian]

Mysterio, do you believe that scum hunting is determined by vote? or is it determined by questions and content to analyze?
Also, are you trying to justify with your last post that my vote on shotty is more suspicious compared to your hammer?

Star you didn't answer chimp pants question directly. you stated who you felt was town, not scum.

Star you didn't answer my question directly either. ""Do you feel that mysterio's reasons were good?" I didn't ask if it made him more suspicious or not.

Star Is this feeling you have about Leech and chimp Pants based on gut?

[Kirbyoshi]

Sorry, I've been REALLY swamped, especially for it being the first week or 2 of school. Post coming tonight.

[Chimp Pants]

@Thian: Could you explain why you think that Shotty was a distraction to the town?

@Star: You keep bringing up this game's short RVS. Many players on MS seem to encourage a short RVS. What value do you find in a more significant RVS?

D2 and on there are flips and wagons to analyze, and that's when I personally start to form theories. When that happens I begin to apply pressure and place votes, and my activity snowballs.

When can we expect this to happen?