Mini 1030 - White Flag Mafia (Game Over)

[Robbnva]

ok got to a pc real quick and started to read back, I actually am not as sure about shotty being scum anymore.

Why not?

Because besides from the OMG YOU HAMMERED ME, I really haven't seen anything that scummy, maybe I'm missing sonething, but I just don't see it.

[Haschel Cedricson]

ok got to a pc real quick and started to read back, I actually am not as sure about shotty being scum anymore.

Why not?

Because besides from the OMG YOU HAMMERED ME, I really haven't seen anything that scummy, maybe I'm missing sonething, but I just don't see it.

Did you see post 106?

[Haschel Cedricson]

EBWOP: Why did you find drmyshottyizsik scummy in the first place?

[Robbnva]

I will have to go read that post

what is up with the damn interogation anyway

you don't like my view on lynching a vt being "safe" fine, but that is how I was taught to play.

[Robbnva]

You are not willing to give him benefit of the doubt that he really misread it?

You have never misread anything in your whole life?

If that is really your only evidence for pushing a lynch, your case is weak

[Friend]

Robb is dumb but I'm getting town vibes IMO. Coming out and saying "lynching a VT is fine" doesn't feel scum-motivated to me, even though it's kinda stupid.

@Data: Yabbaguy is a wrong vote IMO. Show me specific examples of his scummy behavior.
Also why do you think RC is town, cause I really don't.

[Haschel Cedricson]

You are not willing to give him benefit of the doubt that he really misread it?

You have never misread anything in your whole life?

If that is really your only evidence for pushing a lynch, your case is weak

Sure, I've misread things. I also acted like I had misread them.

[Friend]

Haschel what are you trying to achieve with this argument here? A DMSIS vote?

[Haschel Cedricson]

Haschel what are you trying to achieve with this argument here? A DMSIS vote?

Not necessarily. Just trying to pinpoint exactly what Robb's thoughts towards docmyshottyizsik are.

[Friend]

What will you do with those thoughts once you have them?

[Haschel Cedricson]

What will you do with those thoughts once you have them?

Depends how drmyshottyizsik flips, or how other people answer questions directed towards them.

[Robbnva]

Wow, yet another game I am called dumb or vi, guess I need to change my play style

[Friend]

Or your IQ...

[Jack]

Wow, yet another game I am called dumb or vi, guess I need to change my play style

I like your play

[Robbnva]

Or your IQ...

[Robbnva]

Wow, yet another game I am called dumb or vi, guess I need to change my play style

I like your play

Thank you?

[RedCoyote]

Although I suspect I'll still be pigeonholed as reactionary after the post, I'm going to change my vote anyways.

##Unvote

##Vote: Friend

I'll attempt to explain why this is the best lynch off the "let's lynch the doc before anyone notices" gang, and the thoughts that are going through my head when I'm reading some of Friend's posts.

In this game, I think a quicklynch would have been good.

Although none of the three I pointed out specifically have been willing to concede that their wagon was unacceptable, I think Friend was the only one to be this blunt about it. That he didn't really care whether or not every player has confirmed. Jack just throws out some winks and nods, HC dodges it completely, and I hadn't really asked Data or Scott specifically, but I feel as though they were/are the more reasonable doc wagoners.

It wasn't the hammer. DMSIS is not smart enough to pretend to be hammered and say "welp I'm town" as scum.

This is dismissive, but if Friend actually were to believe this, then how is it that he can still call the doc scum?

Eh maybe you're right.

##vote: DMSIS

Instead of going with his "DMSIS is not smart enough to do this as scum", he limps back onto the wagon after testing the waters with his Robb vote.

HC and Jack have actually been engaging me and trying to explain why it is I'm wrong on this one, in contrast to Friend, who just assumes that I'm not town-sided. Data and Scott haven't been stalwarts, so I'm thinking they shouldn't be so carelessly thrown into the mix with Jack, HC, and Friend. If they're scum, they need to be found using a different approach. Although Friend moved his vote a couple of times, they were basically just throwaway positions. He still fell back on the doc, so it's effectively like he never really left the wagon.

[Robbnva]

It is interesting you mentioned Friend, I decided to go back and read some of his posts and I find this contradiction quite noteworthy

lynch all claimed VTs.

yet he later says

Robb is dumb but I'm getting town vibes IMO. Coming out and saying "lynching a VT is fine" doesn't feel scum-motivated to me, even though it's kinda stupid.

So Friend can say it is okay to lynch VTs, but me saying that it is okay to lynch a VT is stupid somehow, but because now I suggest lynching a VT, Friend has to make up the fact he is going to random.org and it just happened to land on me. How convenient

the chance you actually hit scum on day 1 is pure luck.

Alright. Let me go to random.org...oh!

unvote, vote: Robbnva

[Friend]

Robb if you think the claimed vt is scum then you lynch him. I think dr is scum. You don't. Huge difference.

So RC's case boils down to:

1. me advocating a quicklynch.

There's this one newbie game my brother was in. They quicklynched razorback D1. You know who was the most adamantly opposed to it? Scum. Quicklynch wagons are hugely informational.

2. Me flipping on the doctor wagon:

Don't really have anything to say about that. I changed my mind. I got convinced by Jack and yabba.

I'm still pretty sure you are either dr's scumchum or you're opposing the lynch for town cred. But no one will help me wagon you so my vote stays on the doc.

[Robbnva]

Maybe I missed it, what is the evidence you see that makes you think he is scum?

[Friend]

...

[Robbnva]

Oh wait, Jack and abba convinced you, so I should direct my question to the people who lead and not a follower;)

[Robbnva]

Ok, you say yabba convinced you, yet I don't see a single post from him that posts anything close to relevant about lynching shotty, so he convinced you how?

Also are you always so easily convinced or do you formulate your own opinions?

From what I can tell, the entire case vs shotty is basically off "assumptions" of what the mafia role pm does or doesn't say and shotty "misreading" what Jack posted

Jack is either right and he is scum or he is wrong and we have lynched a VT

we all keep talking about a quick lynch being better for town, yet I get criticized for voting for him and agreeing we need a quick lynch, people making me second guess myself and throwing out FOS's my way

I think we should just stick with this lynch cause we will learn so much from it

[yabbaguy]

Observation I completely missed: Data actually never dwelled on why shotty, despite being in the not-confirmed-Town list he bullshitted, isn't scum. I also notice that he was somehow afraid of him being quickhammered. He unvotes, then immediately takes shotty's side and implies "who do you think is scum?". My mind is spinning trying to decipher why he asked that question, and I'd like him to clarify that.

@Data: Please clarify "that".

cloudocean is irking me too as I look back. That's a poor first post that makes asinine (newbie?) assumptions about Robbnva's scumhunting. Either way, he needs to weigh in on much more than that.

Somehow I still want to call Data noobtown (I think he's just misguided on the concept of when quicklynching is beneficial) and shotty still scum. I still think the gambit is feigned, and I frankly think that Friend does have a reason to suddenly switch to voting shotty if he suddenly believes that the gambit is feigned. One of those times when flipping stances as quickly as that is permissible, IMO.

The other wagons are quite distracting, and I don't see why we ever switched away from shotty and suddenly found him Town (nobody really explained, IIRC). His defense is little more than AtE (thus no defense), and his votes seem to land on people that piss him off more than people he actually feels are scum after careful analysis. Sorry your foot's broken buddy, but I'm still getting scumvibes.

##Vote shotty

[Friend]

Day 1 Vote Count

RedCoyote ( 1 ) friend,
yabbaguy ( 0 )
Jack ( 0 )
Data ( 0 )
Haschel Cedricson ( 1 ) RedCoyote
Friend ( 0 )
cloudocean ( 0 )
Robbnva ( 0 )
cateraction ( 0 )
drmyshottyizsik ( 3 ) Scott Brosius, jack, haschel cedricson,
Scott Brosius ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 6 ) yabbaguy, cloudocean, cateraction, drmyshottyizsik, data, robbnva,
Total Votes ( 11 )

Deadline: May 18th at 11:00 EDT
With 24 able to vote, 13 needed to lynch.

I'll start by weighing in on the fascinating players at the moment.

@Friend: I'm going to say quite the opposite. I'm gonna say that dr isn't smart enough to realize that doing this sort of "bah I got hammered" gambit is blatantly obvious.

VIs can be scum. They have been known to pull ridiculous gambits and blend perfectly. See O175: Picking Simplicity in the yGDB in my sig for an example (player in question: Heilograph).

I don't want the Day to end though with two blank player slots. I think the opportunity to beat the Mafia to the kill is lost (there HAS to be 3 Mafia- it's illogical given the premise of this game to have 2) anyway, so I'll inhibit the vote. Still,

FoS: shotty

.

Robb is being naïve and nothing more IMO. Yes, in theory D1 lynches aren't always Town, but to suggest that our first instinct is wrong solely because of this is a misuse of statistics. I think that's the one flaw in mikeburnfire's flash- he cites D1 leading probably to a Town target. It may be true, but it's misconstrued and turned into alarmism by newer players unnecessarily.

I think lack of knowledge of Jack's meta is detrimental to some players as well. He's going to one-line through the game, and that may kick him in the ass or lead to a very successful game. Maybe he's scum- but I haven't seen concrete evidence of this.

Don't derive relationship tells before a flip.

@Robb: ^^^^