I apologize about the absence, everyone. I'm almost caught up with my load in general, so my activity should improve.
Also, catching up means less walls. Sorry about the length of this post.
KoreanWonderBoy wrote:@ Equinox. By confused, I mean how people deduct so much out of so little. I sort of get it, but then again, for me to completely get it, I should be able to make those deductions (or at least some of them) by myself. And occasionally the abbreviations. Which I can check on the other website thingy.
We read people's statements and then think about the motivations behind each one. Is this person saying this to be helpful or to look like they're being helpful? Does this benefit town, or does this benefit mafia? Do these conclusions follow logic?
Substrike22 wrote:@ Equinox - I'd say it's more likely that one of you or the other is a mafia, not both, at this point. Though, in my humble opinion, t's hard to determine "scum teams" until the town has a little more info.
Well, that is interesting. Your previous posts were pushing both of us as mafia, yet now that I've asked, you seem to think it's only one of us. Are you trying to set up a chain lynch here?
ManInTrenchcoat wrote:SO WHY IS IT THAT: When I did so, it's automatically scummy? Seems like a null tell to me.
It's not automatically scummy, but the preceding behavior (missing the question) will affect how people view the following behavior (answering).
Substrike22 wrote:@ Equinox, I'm not saying you should be pointing out everything, Equinox, I'm saying you should probably be more willing to allow people a "noob" card, since this -is- after all a newbie game, on day 1.
I probably should be, but I'm not.
Since it's so early in the game, "newbieness" should be a given. That seems to be your premise here. Why would it be necessary to point this out for every single attack, then? I do not use it because that is akin to giving scum an escape pass. I'm not going to assume everyone is experienced, but I'm not going to hold back if something seems scummy.
Ragnarokio wrote:Over time the whole thing becomes very strawman, and Trenchcoat is turned into the innocent good guy (Substrike initially found him scummy, and i don't recall him ever saying he didn't anymore), and Equinox the evil mafiate battering on easy to lynch noobs.
I could say the same thing about your representation of the Equinox versus Substrike22 argument... but anyway, what makes you think straw men have been involved?
Substrike22 wrote:I firmly believe bandwagons help scum 75% of the time.
Why?
Substrike22 wrote:Can you explain what you mean by "strawman"? Never heard that before.
A straw man argument is one where one takes one's opponent's position, make it look like a similar but weaker argument, and then attack it.
skn27 wrote:Wooah. Okay first of all there's no reason that you should be calling my reasoning weird because this is my first game and you should be respecting what I do or say. There's no reason you should be attacking me like that. I haven't had any experience with this, so what I say or do right now in my first game is really based on gut feeling instead of strategy because I really have no strategy.
There's really no strategy in the beginning of the game (unless you're mafia, but even they are fairly random on Day 1). You look for something that doesn't look or feel right, and then you examine it. That's all there is. Some of that is gut, some of that is looking for gaps in logic.
Ragnarokio wrote:I think people here have multiple definitions of noob card, Equinox is saying that he won't ignore something Trenchcoat has done that is scummy just because he is a new player, he won't cut him any slack.
This sums up my position.
skn27 wrote:Banana- I feel like you're a townie because in Post
74 you were glad that we were all moving along which meant that you wanted us to get closer to figuring out who the scum(s) is/are. If you were scum, you wouldn't want us to be moving along and figuring out that you were scum.
On the other hand, scum will say that just to appear more townie. Banana Stickers's comment was just an afterthought; why do you feel this statement was telling of town alignment? (Blah. Double ninja'd by the SEs.)
KoreanWonderBoy wrote:My next opinions of people could be totally wrong: I just want people to know that I am trying to do something here that explains where I stand.
Why are you already pre-empting your stances? Are you afraid that someone will point you out and say you're wrong?
skn27 wrote:I was only trying to communicate with everybody so that everyone knows what I am thinking so we can work everything out together.
...which is good. However, since we don't know for sure what your motivations are, you're going to be scrutinized as much as the rest of them.
The tl;dr Section
- Familiarize yourself with these logical fallacies, and learn to avoid them. I'm of the belief that emotion and instinct play a role in scum hunting, but logic is the way to convince people to lynch the person you believe is mafia. If all you've got is gut, question them either until you get a logical basis for your suspicion, or until you're no longer suspicious of them.
- "He seems to be town, but he may be mafia." Do not fall into this trap. Both are always possibilities, until that person flips a role. Examine both possibilities and determine which one is likelier. Take stances.
- If you're unsure what alignment someone is, ask them questions. Apply pressure if you feel it's necessary.
Stances!
I'm worried about KoreanWonderBoy's and skn27's waffling with their reads. They listed their opinions of each player, but they fell into the WIFOM trap described above. Of the two, KoreanWonderBoy is probably the worse offender, since he took the effort of pre-empting his own positions.
VOTE: KoreanWonderBoy
I have some very strong town reads and a few weak town reads, which is pretty good for Day 1.
I am up in the air about ManInTrenchcoat, given Substrike22's borderline-chainsaw. He needs to come in and give his opinions on what has transpired thus far (and focus less on self-defense).