Newbie 1001 - Game Over

[Ragnarokio]

The "noob defense" is a legitimate defense in my opinion, and ignoring it for the sake of ignoring it will throw off your scumhunting. You need to differentiate the points that are explainable by "he is new" and the posts that indicate that he is likely to be town or likely to be scum. Even the posts where he is new could indicate alignment. Thats my opinion on the matter.

I'm actually pretty suspicious of Substrike lately, and i've been less susppicious of Trenchcoat since my read back on him, although he's still in my scope.

[Pizzaplate]

reasons for being suspicious of substrike, rag?

[Ragnarokio]

1) Vote on Korean seems a little quick, although it was the RVS phase, so people could potentially be easier with their votes. I feel as if town would have asked what the strategy is, or explained why it looked ridiculous, rather than put a vote on that person. He later unvotes him saying "i find him less suspicious now". This really puts a lot more suspicion on his initial vote, its as if he actually had a case on him before, and wasn't just attacking him for a single early vote and sentence from a new player, that i immediately chopped up to noob play. It seems to be support it being a systematic mafia vote.

2) Where his intentions lie is hazy. He's attacking Trenchcoat for being scummy, but is saying some of the points on him don't apply because he is a new player. Equinox begins attacking him, and he switches his vote to Equinox. Over time the whole thing becomes very strawman, and Trenchcoat is turned into the innocent good guy (Substrike initially found him scummy, and i don't recall him ever saying he didn't anymore), and Equinox the evil mafiate battering on easy to lynch noobs. I think he still maintains that both are scummy in stance, though his words give me different vibes. This point is pretty weak, and its more likely that he just finds Equinox more scummy than Trenchcoat. Its still a thought that went through my head though, so i thought i'd write it down.

He seems overall shaky with his play, some of his general movements seem to betray or contradict eachother, or at the very least they create tension.

Also, has menmon done much this game? I remember him posting but not him saying much.

[Ragnarokio]

Unvote: Trenchcoat
Vote: Substrike

[Substrike22]

In terms of Korean, to explain my reasons for that right now would kind of defy the point, but I'll tell you eventually, promise. Speaking of said player, still waiting on that substance post, bud.

I don't see a problem with creating tension if I see a bandwagon happening, sorry. I firmly believe bandwagons help scum 75% of the time. (statistic made up randomly) Therefore I chose to present an alternative explanation for something that was occurring, since no one else was doing it. I've already explained my position on Equinox and MiTC, so you can Iso my posts and read that. Essentially you were correct when you stated I feel Equinox is more scummy than MiTC, not that MiTC hasn't acted scummy.

Can you explain what you mean by "strawman"? Never heard that before.

[skn27]

I maintain that myself & Substrike have more posts / content than

you

, so this accusation is sort of fishy to me, just like the one above. Seems like you haven't posted for awhile and now you're flailing out with some weirdo reasoning / accusations. Not voting yet since I haven't seen enough of you and you're a newbie to boot, but IGMEOY...

Wooah. Okay first of all there's no reason that you should be calling my reasoning weird because this is my first game and you should be respecting what I do or say. There's no reason you should be attacking me like that. I haven't had any experience with this, so what I say or do right now in my first game is really based on gut feeling instead of strategy because I really have no strategy.
Second, I did not say that I

was

posting more than you. I just meant that you weren't posting as much as the others. I'm sorry that I had forgotten to say, "maybe, like me, you might not have been able to post a lot due to personal reasons."

skn, can you give an example of Ragna "attacking very strongly"? Because, honestly...I ain't seen it. At all.

Well I haven't played with Ragna before so I don't know if her tone is normal or something. I've read everyone's post like twice, and overall, what Ragna has said seem like attacks at others while defending herself. I can't quote anything because she hasn't said anything specific to make me very suspicious of her, but as I said before, it's really based on gut feeling.

[Ragnarokio]

You were painting up Equinox and Trenchcoat to be characters rather than Players, assigning them simple personalities, its a tool that can really sway the way people think of other people.

[Substrike22]

@skn27, if you call people on their posts, them responding to it isn't an attack.

@Ragna, I may be guilty of that with MiTC, looking back on my posts, but I don't really see myself doing that to Equinox. If you're referring to the fact that I referred to his IC-ness, I just was pointing out the oddness of an IC who doesn't allow noob cards. To me, that's strange. If it's not to you, or anyone else, you're welcome to that opinion.

[Ragnarokio]

I think people here have multiple definitions of noob card, Equinox is saying that he won't ignore something Trenchcoat has done that is scummy just because he is a new player, he won't cut him any slack. What you are saying is that some things that he does that might appear scummy aren't scummy because he is a new player. Common scumtells can't be applied in the same ways to people who haven't adapted to the meta yet.

[skn27]

So, I have looked at everybody in iso and have made a few deductions based on what they have posted. If something I say sounds wrong, feel free to correct me because these are only educated guesses. Before I say anything,

Unovote: Bananasticker

Banana- I feel like you're a townie because in Post 74 you were glad that we were all moving along which meant that you wanted us to get closer to figuring out who the scum(s) is/are. If you were scum, you wouldn't want us to be moving along and figuring out that you were scum.

Equinox- In Post 50, you said

What sort of material are you looking for? It seems we're generating plenty of good stuff already.

which makes me think that either you don't want anything else to pop up that makes us suspicious of you, or you believe that we have some good points to find our scum. I'm not sure which side you're on, but to me you don't seem scummy.

KWB- I don't mean to offend you, but it seems that in every post you make you play the "I don't understand" card. To me, it appears as if you are trying to hide some fact. I feel like I would do the exact same thing in my first game and the scum. I'm not sure, but you seem pretty suspicious.

MITC- In Post 36 you tell people that you are reaction hunting to make it seem like you know that you aren't scum and is trying to see who is scum. This could work both ways because it could mean that you are really trying to help the town. Or, it could mean that you are trying to convince us that you are helping the town when you are actually trying to push the scumminess away. For now, you seem suspicious.

Memnon- I believe that you are a townie because you said in Post 122 that you liked the activity which means that you like continuation and that you wanted to keep moving on to figure out who is on which side (like Banana).

Pizzaplate- You were wondering who I thought was the most suspicious in Post 114 when I hadn't posted anything with much content, so I assume that you believed that I was just observing everybody and wanted my opinion on who I thought seemed most suspicious overall. This seems kind of fishy because if you wanted to know from my point of view, you might have been afraid that I may have seen something suspicious about you. On the other hand, you could just be curious. This point is pretty weak, but for you, I don't have much.

Ragnarokio- You seem like a townie who is trying to help the town by pushing questions onto people. You didn't want to lynch an innocent and get them into the L2 stage, but if you were scum, you would want to lynch an innocent first to give you the advantage. So, if you were scum, you wouldn't have told us not to put an innocent in danger like that.

Substrike- You also seem like a townie to me because of the reasons I had just said about Ragnarokio.

Sorry about this long post!

[Ragnarokio]

The main issue is that people lying often makes it hard to read their intentions. One of the mafia members might talk about how much they like how good the town is doing, just so that nobody thinks that they are mafia.

[Equinox]

With sincere apologies, I need to announce a V/LA until the evening of August 23. Realistically, though, I will probably be out until the morning of August 24. I will do my best to make up for the absence.

("V/LA" is a way of saying that one will be AFK for an extended period of time. Normally, announcements like these are bolded so the moderator knows not to prod you, but in my case, the absence is less than 36 hours. V/LAs longer than, say, 48 hours should be bolded.)

[Pizzaplate]

okay, in equinox's absence, I guess the mod and us semi-experienceds will answer most of the questions that come up.

Still suspicious on Trenchcoat, my point of view hasn't changed much for anyone else. Yeah, I admit this is a pretty empty post, sorry. Nothing much has come up is all.
There's something that gets me, just one thing (I reread everything before typing this, and didn't want to double post. I wont edit the top part cuz thats what I was thinking at the time.)

skn27 maintains attacks on banana for a while, then backs off after saying he viewed everyone in ISO, especially due to that post, #74. But I read that post #74, and personally, I don't think that side comment dismisses all scumminess from banana like that. You've just suddenly dropped your attack for pretty much no valid reason, at least in my opinion.

[skn27]

First of all, I'm female. It says so under my avatar. Second, it was only my opinion of banana. You don't have to change your opinion about him. It was how I saw it in my point of view and I was just trying to tell you what I was thinking not that I am right about my opinion.

[CallMeLiam]

Vote Count

ManInTrenchcoat

- 2 - Memnon, Pizzaplate

Ragnarokio

- 1 - ManInTrenchcoat

Equinox

- 1 - Substrike22

Substrike22

- 1 - Ragnarokio

Not Voting

- 3 - Banana Stickers, Equinox, KoreanWonderboy, skn27

Five votes lynches, Deadline is 9am Friday the 21st of September GMT. A countdown is

here

[Memnon]

Also, has menmon done much this game? I remember him posting but not him saying much.

Yeah...sorry. I've been busy the past couple of days. I will try to be more active from here on. (If I give even a hint of lurking, Equinox will lop my head off)

Memnon- I believe that you are a townie because you said in Post 122 that you liked the activity which means that you like continuation and that you wanted to keep moving on to figure out who is on which side (like Banana).

As Ragnarokio said, this is a poor reason to think I'm town. A scum can just as easily say that (actually they are more likely to say that, because it looks like activity but isn't).

Don't be sorry about the length of your post. That's short compared to some stuff I've written.

Unfortunately I am in a similar position to Pizzaplate right now, as nobody really has changed in my opinion, except for Substrike, who has gotten scummier.

Top two right now: ManInTrenchcoat, Substrike

ManInTrenchcoat: where are you?

Substrike: You need to do some explaining.

[KoreanWonderBoy]

HUFF
Finally, sifted through all that text. Here's where I stand.
I have townie/scum opinions on 4 people and slight suspicions on the others.
Bananastickers: You asked me for my opinion. This in my opinion wouldn't be the action of a mafia member, because you don't want new information. However, this could be a disguise, because as most of you know, I'm pretty much a newb, and asking my opinion would mean almost nothing. So for now, I think Bananastickers is townie.
(again long posts not working)

[KoreanWonderBoy]

Substrike: You also asked for my opinion (albeit sort of pushingly). Like Bananastickers, I think you are townie as well. I am a little bit more suspicious of you because you are actively voting and Bananastickers is not, but that's just a hunch based on a whole load of nothing.
My next opinions of people could be totally wrong: I just want people to know that I am trying to do something here that explains where I stand.

[KoreanWonderBoy]

skn: She's posted a long list of her opinions on other people. This, I find, is more scummy than pro-town in my opinion. Giving ways to suspect others would get attention off of yourself. Like I said though, this could go the other way, meaning that she's townie, and trying to help, but my feeling with her other posts included make me think she's scummy.
Pizzaplate: Quite active, contributes to discussion. he's made also a long list of opinions, but he's also made quite a few posts one why he's suspicious of certain people. So he seems less scummy than skn, but still scum. I think.

[KoreanWonderBoy]

Others: I'm pretty much neutral with others partially because I can't find anything, and partially because I haven't gotten around to thoroughly analyzing their posts. I just keep my eye out for Equinox because he's the most experienced here. And MiTC seems slightly scummy, because in my past experience, mafia try to defend their 'innocence' a lot harder than townies do.
Hope that clears some misconception up with me. And still not voting until I can get some good information or find a good piece of evidence. (or read one)

[Pizzaplate]

Just a tip, kwonderboy, double posting, sometimes even triple posting is okay, but its generally best not to post 4 or more times in a row.

I would also like to see where trenchcoat is.

Also, @ kwonderboy- how does making quite a few posts on why I'm suspicious of certain people make me scummy, in your eyes?

[KoreanWonderBoy]

I thought I said this, but my computer doesn't let me post a whole lot of text at once. It has like a 5 line limit or something :l. So that's why I posted several. It's one whole post just cut up. And the posting suspicions on certain people make you less scummy, not more scummy. I just found the list of all people and whether or not they're scummy in your opinion made you more scummy.

[Substrike22]

Substrike: You need to do some explaining.

About what? I've already explained my reasoning on both Equinox and MiTC. If you need something else, be more specific, please.

[skn27]

skn: She's posted a long list of her opinions on other people. This, I find, is more scummy than pro-town in my opinion. Giving ways to suspect others would get attention off of yourself. Like I said though, this could go the other way, meaning that she's townie, and trying to help, but my feeling with her other posts included make me think she's scummy.

And the posting suspicions on certain people make you less scummy, not more scummy.

So, I made a post about my suspicions on people too. But that makes me scummy but not Pizzaplate or others? Could you explain this?

[Pizzaplate]

Actually Kwonderboy has said I was scummy, just clarifying