Newbie 1001 - Game Over

[Equinox]

EBWOP: Bleh, missed the forced preview.

@the rest of you (and also trench)
The funny thing I've noticed about equinox right now is that he's pushing the scumminess of trenchy, but hasn't voted on him, rather has taken his vote off when I put mine on.
@Equinox, why? (my second @ point)

Already explained. I do not want L-2 this early in the game when half of the player list is still out. Besides, I may think ManInTrenchcoat is scummy, but I do not think it's worth an L-2 on page 4.

[Equinox]

I just remembered that I neglected to talk about reading posts in isolation ("iso") while doing the BBcode lesson earlier...

The site has a nifty feature where you can read a single person's posts. Toward the bottom of the page, there is this cluster of dropdown menus:



Select a name in the "Display posts by user:" field, and boom! All of Equinox's posts are available to read, albeit out of context.

This can be helpful when you need to reevaluate a player or do a post-by-post analysis (PBPA) on someone.

[KoreanWonderBoy]

Is this how long/how in depth a normal game of mafia goes? Wow, loving this. Except for the part that I'm sort of confused XD Oh well, that will pass. I hope

[Equinox]

Is this how long/how in depth a normal game of mafia goes? Wow, loving this. Except for the part that I'm sort of confused XD Oh well, that will pass. I hope

Days in newbie games take 3 weeks, so we tend to go really deep into things.

About what are you confused?

[Pizzaplate]

Iso is probably the most useful part about playing mafia online, IMO

Newbie games last for months. There's really little avoiding that.

[Equinox]

Did some skimming to catch votes.

Well at this point in the game I'm really just choosing someone because nobody is an obvious mafia member. It's nothing personal. Obviously, since I don't know you. It's just a "feeling" I guess?

The first sentence implies your vote on ManInTrenchcoat was an RVS vote, but the second implies it's a real vote based on a gut feeling.

Which was it, and why?

[Banana Stickers]

ManinTrenchcoat seems really scummy to me and right now it goes beyond what I'd call "newbie mistakes". He's avoiding questions, as Equinox pointed out. He's also trying really, really hard to push any sentiment of being a "scum" away from him, and most of it seems directed at Ragna right now.

Equinox has tunnel vision on a noobie early, and even after Ragna pointed out that a lot of mistakes that Man has made can be attributed to noob, Equinox still seems pretty excited about pushing him. I can see how this is a town thing, but I could also see this as Equinox trying to push a mislynch on day one as scum.

Is it just me, or are these two quotes directly opposite of each other? Substrike, you seem to be pointing the finger at MiTC in your first bit, but then accusing Equinox of doing the same thing in the second bit. This was in the same post, by the by, so I'm pretty confused about this.

KoreanWonderBoy seems less scummy to me now, so while I'm on that I'll UNVOTE: KoreanWonderBoy

This was your 6th post, only one of which had ANY sort of (small) amount of content in it, and not once did you ever indicate that you thought that KWB was scummy. Looks like your vote on him was in the RVS. So if you thought this - you never indicated it in game, which throws up a red flag to me. Also, why did you ever think he was scummy? He's playing his first game and it's pretty obvious he doesn't have much experience with the actual game with his questions...unless it's a brilliant "I'm a newbie! >.> <.<" scum strategy.

Speaking of KoreanWonderBoy, his posts have been full of questions, which is fine, but no substance. KWB, I'd like to hear what you're thinking.

While I'm asking for someone else's opinion, I should probably give my own...

Still not voting here, for reason. Not because I want to no lynch, KWB, I can't really think of a reason why that would be beneficial to town, especially on day 1. It's because by the time I came in to do a read through, we really were past the random voting bit, and I just don't see anyone strong enough to plop my vote on yet. MiTC has some pretty terrible reasonings (assuming everyone is lying, turning what I see as simple questions as hostile intent) but I don't see enough to accuse him as scum yet.

I agree with Equinox's posts about MiTC, but I feel like he's sort of making a mountain out of a molehill. Still, not getting a scum vibe from this either, because stimulating discussion is always good, and he's not going balls-out for a lynch.

[KoreanWonderBoy]

Haha, I laughed at your "unless it's a brilliant 'I'm a newb" strategy" comment. That would be exactly the thing I would love to be able to execute... But XD I can't.
Ps. My computer doesn't seem to like it when I post a lot. I'll be posting a few small ones back to back. Sorry about that.

[KoreanWonderBoy]

@ Equinox. By confused, I mean how people deduct so much out of so little. I sort of get it, but then again, for me to completely get it, I should be able to make those deductions (or at least some of them) by myself. And occasionally the abbreviations. Which I can check on the other website thingy.
@ Banana Stickers. Like I said, I'm sort of confused as to what all of you are deducting. I'm sort of waiting for something really important, or something that I can REALLY understand. Something I can relate to. Sort of like you, I'm not quite sure what to do yet. No-one seems quite suspicious. So I unvote.

[KoreanWonderBoy]

Unvote

[Substrike22]

@ Equinox - I'd say it's more likely that one of you or the other is a mafia, not both, at this point. Though, in my humble opinion, t's hard to determine "scum teams" until the town has a little more info.

@ Banana Stickers, I was trying to point out that MiTC is making a lot of scum-like mistakes, and that he is still scummy to me, but not as scummy as he was before. I was attempting to point out that I found it odd that the IC was attacking a newbie player with a barrage of questions, which MiTC was using to dig himself a bigger hole... largely due to what I believe to be noobishness, not scumminess. I found it odd that Equinox was allowing MiTC to bury himself with noob mistakes without giving him much of a chance to recover. He's trying really hard to bandwagon someone on something I believe is super-sketchy evidence at best.

Also, I refute your claim of "only post with content on it". Most of my posts have identified people I believe to be scum, and I was the first one to point out that Equinox was pushing MiTC extremely hard. I'd continue to elaborate but instead just go back and re-read my posts. I've done as much if not more than you have, in my opinion. I acknowledge when I borrowed thoughts from other people and I expanded on them.

In terms of the KWB vote it was a mostly-RVS vote that initially (in my eyes) implied that I found his behavior somewhat scummy. I'm aware he's a noob (I am the one that started the MiTC noob argument). I renounced that vote because I now feel that other people are more scummy. Note that I didn't say I didn't find him scummy, I said I found him less scummy. There's a difference. I feel he's scummy for the reasons you pointed out, he's posted nothing but questions and votes. To me that is scummy, just not as scummy as what Equinox or MiTC have been doing. I'm not saying what MiTC has been doing isn't scummy, because it is. I just found it odd that Equinox didn't point out that the fact that we're dealing with a newbie can sometimes lead people to a mislynch. He's, to use your words, "making a mountain out of a molehill", which can easily bandwagon onto a lynch. Equinox himself stated he's trying to establish a bandwagon on MiTC in post. That's a call for a lynching as far as I'm concerned.

(Everything below this was added after KWB's unvote)
KWB, you don't have an opinion on anyone after 5 pages? Not even a little? Why?

Also, you must've missed post #95 from me. Please go back and re read it. It outlines most of my thoughts on MiTC, before you asked your question.

[Substrike22]

EBWOP: The last sentence on that post should be above the (Everything below this), as it was directed @ Banana. The KWB comment is what was added.

[KoreanWonderBoy]

Not that I don't have an opinion, I just don't have a large enough opinion. I don't really quite understand what all of you are saying and I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. So bear with me

[skn27]

@Non SE or IC's: Something I'd like to know from each of the "newbies", except substrike of course (I was in the last game with him): Is this your first mafia game on mafiascum, or your second, third, fourth, etc.?

This is my first game ever!

2) skn, would you please answer Pizzaplates' question re: experience?

I did answer it in a post, but I just didn't quote Pizzaaplate. Sorry if that's a "rule" or something

[Pizzaplate]

skn27, want to provide us with an opinion? Which 2 people do you think are the scummiest?
Doesn't have to be just 2, either, it could be any number. You could even say you find nobody suspicious at all, although that would be bad.

[Equinox]

@ Banana Stickers, I was trying to point out that MiTC is making a lot of scum-like mistakes, and that he is still scummy to me, but not as scummy as he was before. I was attempting to point out that I found it odd that the IC was attacking a newbie player with a barrage of questions, which MiTC was using to dig himself a bigger hole... largely due to what I believe to be noobishness, not scumminess. I found it odd that Equinox was allowing MiTC to bury himself with noob mistakes without giving him much of a chance to recover. He's trying really hard to bandwagon someone on something I believe is super-sketchy evidence at best.

Your use of the a form of the Burden of Proficiency (that the IC should be pointing out everything) is noted.

Where have I completely allowed ManInTrenchcoat to dig his own grave? I have been questioning him, yes, but I have been giving pointers. If ManInTrenchcoat does not recover, then that is his prerogative.

I do not give newbie passes, period. That goes for everyone in this game, not just ManInTrenchcoat; it just so happened that ManInTrenchcoat was first in line. Why are you continually playing that defense for him, when he himself has not used it?

---

Hi, skn27. Ready for the cross-examination?

You skipped this one.

Well at this point in the game I'm really just choosing someone because nobody is an obvious mafia member. It's nothing personal. Obviously, since I don't know you. It's just a "feeling" I guess?

The first sentence implies your vote on ManInTrenchcoat was an RVS vote, but the second implies it's a real vote based on a gut feeling.

Which was it, and why?

[skn27]

Well at this point in the game I'm really just choosing someone because nobody is an obvious mafia member. It's nothing personal. Obviously, since I don't know you. It's just a "feeling" I guess?

The first sentence implies your vote on ManInTrenchcoat was an RVS vote, but the second implies it's a real vote based on a gut feeling.

Which was it, and why?

Well, I guess that is confusing, but I'm not really sure why I feel like ManInTrenchcoat is the mafia. I've read every post as a whole so based on what each player had said I just felt that Trenchcoat was the most suspicious. I'm not absolutely certain that he is the mafia. It wasn't anything particular that he said or anything. It was just an overall suspicion.

[Ragnarokio]

Overall suspicion based on what? Could you try to explain in a broad sense what is suspicious about him, even if you can't pick out any details?

I think Equinox is being completely reasonable.

[skn27]

skn27, want to provide us with an opinion? Which 2 people do you think are the scummiest?
Doesn't have to be just 2, either, it could be any number. You could even say you find nobody suspicious at all, although that would be bad.

Well, Ragnarokio attacks very strongly which makes it seem as if she is trying to make others suspicious instead. She may be good at pretending or hiding the fact that she is scum, or she could just be a regular townie with good points. I explained my suspicion of Manintrench coat in my last post, so you could just read that.

Bananastickers and substrike have been quiet but maybe it's because they are mafia, or they just haven't been able to post.

So at this point, I would say the scummiest would be Ragnarokio and Manintrenchcoat.

[skn27]

Overall suspicion based on what? Could you try to explain in a broad sense what is suspicious about him, even if you can't pick out any details?

I think Equinox is being completely reasonable.

I never said that Equinox wasn't being unreasonable. It's a good question since I feel like I am being vague because this is my first game and I'm not really sure of what I should be doing.

I suspect him based on his defending himself. He is doing it very strongly so I'm assuming he might not want people to know that he is scum.

[ManInTrenchcoat]

I am forced to assume that everyone, including you, is lying to me. Therefore, Paranoia sez: You're trying to get out of it because I'm right.

Then again, there's a grain of truth in every lie. If you doubt everything everyone says, you aren't going to get very far. After all, there are 7 town players; you have to trust someone eventually.

Eventually is not Page 4, Day 1.

Quick Poll: So, I forget to answer a question.

a) As Town, do I answer it?
b) As Scum, do I answer it?

Legitimate question!

Always answer questions. As town, you want to be as transparent as possible, and answering questions and suspicions is a good way to do that. As scum, you don't want to be on the receiving end of accusations that you're purposefully skipping out on questions.

So, the general feel is that you never skip a question and that if you do, you should answer it ASAP.

SO WHY IS IT THAT: When I did so, it's automatically scummy? Seems like a null tell to me.

@Non SE or IC's: Something I'd like to know from each of the "newbies", except substrike of course (I was in the last game with him): Is this your first mafia game on mafiascum, or your second, third, fourth, etc.?

This is my first game ever!

2) skn, would you please answer Pizzaplates' question re: experience?

I did answer it in a post, but I just didn't quote Pizzaaplate. Sorry if that's a "rule" or something

[Substrike22]

@ Equinox, I'm not saying you should be pointing out everything, Equinox, I'm saying you should probably be more willing to allow people a "noob" card, since this -is- after all a newbie game, on day 1. On day 2 or 3, maybe a different story. But for now I'm willing to dismiss what he's doing as noob, because:

To answer why I'm using the noob defense for him, it's because that's what happened to me last game. I got trapped defending myself because it seemed like a natural town reaction, and what he's doing looks exactly the same, so I find it far less scummy than you do. I'm also simply pointing out an alternative explanation for his behavior, which you neglected to address during any of your posts.

@KWB, I'd appreciate a post as soon as your head wraps around it. It's very hard to read where you are and we're on page 5 now. I recommend reading the Wikis that Equinox linked at the beginning, if you haven't. It helps to know the abbreviations and general strategy. Then you can formulate a post. Otherwise I'm going to have to consider you active lurking pretty soon, since you've done almost nothing other than popping on and saying you don't understand.

[Memnon]

Excellent guys, love the activity. (I worked yesterday and will be again tonight, sorry for being inactive)

Just one thing to add to the "newb card" discussion. I think the mistake people make in dealing with this is that they consider "newbish" to be the opposite of "scummy". You need to differentiate being a newbie from being a townie. They aren't the same thing.

Also, ManInTrenchcoat, you aren't helping yourself by making these kinds of posts. Not. One. Bit.

Ragnarokio attacks very strongly which makes it seem as if she is trying to make others suspicious instead. She may be good at pretending or hiding the fact that she is scum, or she could just be a regular townie with good points. I explained my suspicion of Manintrench coat in my last post, so you could just read that.

The fact that Ragnarokio attacks very strongly is good for the town, don't forget.

KoreanWonderBoy and skn27, don't worry about posting your little suspicions. You don't have to have an incredibly scummy suspect before you can justify making a vote.

[Banana Stickers]

(Apologies if this posts twice...)

Like I said, I'm sort of confused as to what all of you are deducting. I'm sort of waiting for something really important, or something that I can REALLY understand. Something I can relate to. Sort of like you, I'm not quite sure what to do yet. No-one seems quite suspicious. So I unvote.

Mafia definitely takes time to play. It doesn't suffice to have a light read through...posts have to be thoroughly analyzed. Try reading a few players in iso, seeing if they make any posts that disagree with each other, or something you find fishy.

Also, I refute your claim of "only post with content on it".

I meant that your post unvoting KWB was your first real one with substance, not your only one with substance - the posts after that have been fine. Anyway, your answers have satisfied me well enough.

Well, Ragnarokio attacks very strongly which makes it seem as if she is trying to make others suspicious instead.

skn, can you give an example of Ragna "attacking very strongly"? Because, honestly...I ain't seen it. At all. One more thing:

Bananastickers and substrike have been quiet but maybe it's because they are mafia, or they just haven't been able to post.

I maintain that myself & Substrike have more posts / content than

you

, so this accusation is sort of fishy to me, just like the one above. Seems like you haven't posted for awhile and now you're flailing out with some weirdo reasoning / accusations. Not voting yet since I haven't seen enough of you and you're a newbie to boot, but IGMEOY...

[CallMeLiam]

Vote Count

ManInTrenchcoat

- 3 - Ragnarokio, Memnon, Pizzaplate

Ragnarokio

- 1 - ManInTrenchcoat

BananaSticker

- 1 - skn27

Equinox

- 1 - Substrike22

Not Voting

- 3 - Banana Stickers, Equinox, KoreanWonderboy

Five votes lynches, Deadline is 9am Friday the 21st of September GMT. A countdown is

here