Mini 1021: Battousai's Mountaintnous Mountain Mafia (Over)

[ConfidAnon]

Mod: I apologize, but I'm going to ask for replacement from this game. I can't get into it, and I don't want to continue to be dead weight past the point of no replacement, and the game's already pretty big as it is.

[Nexus]

You've basically ruined the first day, wendy.

You've been nothing but distracting, petulant, and now you're not getting your way, you're requesting out?

Pathetic.

Oh and CA too. Wonderful.

[PranaDevil]

Nexus. CA I can somewhat understand as he's rarely been about for ages. wendy I agree with on though. Lots of distracting, deliberately preventing scum hunting and now, because he's unable to get what he wants he runs off hoping to keep his slot alive for his scum buddy, and I'm not buying it.

I'll be rather pissed if people allow him to get away with that.

[Nexus]

Oh yeah, I'm not annoyed at CA, at least he hasn't taken the game off the rails before disappearing.

I'm just frustrated in general. I put a lot of time into the posts when asked, and tw ignored them, came up with a load of crap, and has just generally made things awful.

[Nightwolf]

Holy post explosion!

@ wendy:

Are you thinking about advocating for a last minute switch from Xite to CA?

Yes, it was something that I was thinking about a little, and was planning on going and rereading a few things involving each of them if there was still any possibility that it could happen before LF checks in and moves his vote, which would kill off any remaining chance that wagon had. Now however, I'm putting that off so that I can reread a different person, you. Seriously, get your act together already or I may even hop on and hammer.

Why would you wait so long to give the hard no-lynch push anyway, if it was really what you wanted. There is NO chance (in my view) of it going through this late and close to deadline. If you wanted to push any theory of it at all the best time would have been when people were still voicing their initial opinions on it. Heck, I wrote up a full section analyzing it with just some of the basic thoughts/arguments that could be used for and against it. You could have used that as a starting point mentioning why some aspect was wrong or adding other arguments into it.

Also, from quickly reading this whole explosion just now combined with a bunch of your previous posts, you don't always even seem to know where you stand. Half the time you're pushing for day 1 no lynch and the other half your emphasizing that the main concern is that it has to be before mylo. Guess what, at least a few people here have considered that it should be before mylo as well. I believe you even said it would be "the first time in the history of the site" or something like that (cant be bothered to look up exact wording right now), so why can't you at least be happy at that much?

Preview Edit: Oh great, a double replacement now as well. I can't say that the thought that it might just be best to lynch wendy('s slot) now didn't cross my mind as soon as I read that. /goes on to reread.

[iamausername]

I think the meta needs to be changed. I have a major problem with it. Town needs to stop acting scummy and say they're running gambits. It's making it much harder for the real townies to find the logic. Not everyone needs to be professor freaking mafia. When the rest of the town doesn't know you're gambiting (as they shouldn't), it can look scummy.

What's EVEN WORSE is that the remainder of the town has been "brilliant gambit, Adel" when... ugh.

I'm truly grossed out by the current meta. Shit's flying now that wouldn't have even been discussed in the past.

See what I find makes it harder for town is when they feel like they have to stifle their natural impulses in order to fit into to the accepted model of What Townies Do. It's so much easier to read people if everyone lets their thoughts flow freely.

The thing is that nobody is deliberately acting

scummy

. They're acting unconventionally, which some people think is the same thing, and scum love those people because it means they can pretend to be one of them and join in the witch hunt. Which is how these gambits work in the first place.

I see your side of the argument; it's a slippery slope to allowing scum to get away with whatever they like and just saying "it was a gambit" afterwards, but... that's where the whole 'reading people' thing that forms the entire basis of the game comes in; they explain what they were trying to achieve with their gambit, you figure out if their explanation is sincere. If scum have done something scummy unintentionally, then their explanation when they try to write it off as a gambit is not going to be very convincing.

Predictability is the enemy. The more predictable town play is, the easier it is for scum to emulate.

Speaking less generally, I think the important thing to look at with wendy is the alt slip. If you believe that was accidental (and I am giving the benefit of the doubt on that one, because I've been there), he is obviously town. If not, then there is a pretty good chance he is scum.

On that note, wendel, could you explain in as much detail as you can recall the circumstances surrounding your alt slip? Why were you logged in as Adel, and why did you think you were logged in as tomorrow wendy? Thanks.

sure, I'll be happy to trade a Xite lynch for a CA lynch.

bitchin

That's not the same thing. If CA gets replaced tomorrow and you try and make the replacement fit the mold of the previous player in that slot, for a completely null situation then you shouldn't have that attitude.

Shouldn't =/= won't. It doesn't matter if you think he was justified in his suspicion, fitz obviously thinks he was justified, so it is completely natural for him to feel vindicated when he thinks his suspicion has been confirmed.

I'm not ignoring that. What you are wrong about is the idea that using gut and solely gut is unacceptable. That's wrong. It's totally fine. Sorry I haven't made that clear before.

It would be perfectly fine if it didn't get in the way of actual scumhunting, which it does.

I don't even know what language you're speaking sometimes. How in the hell does me stating, for example, that my gut says Prana is town with no further explanation

get in the way

of "actual scumhunting". I can understand why you might think it isn't "actual scumhunting", though that is still wrong, but saying it "gets in the way" is just wtf.

This seemed to be one of your most important points when you wrote that post, and I do not agree with it (at least not to a strong degree). I view it somewhere between null and mildly scummy. Since CA has already responded when initially questioned on it and doesn't look like he has more to say about it, I'll also say why. Look at the quote in this post. It could have easily just been mirroring the language used at the time by Prana as his focus was to correct the reason Prana listed after those words rather than the words themselves.

Good call.

You asked this question to wendy, I would like you to answer the opposite of it yourself. If CA is lynched and flips town, would you support a Xite lynch tomorrow? If not, who?

Well, when I asked my question, I'd have been more likely to go for fitz than Xite, which is still a trade wendy wanted.

But Xite called me scum, so I am totally gunning for him now. OMGIS. (In seriousness, his support for the wendy lynch feels considerably less sincere than anyone else to me. Given this and the above, I am a lot happier with having to switch to him than I expected.)

Or is it that whole posting a bunch of irrelevant stuff as scum thing again.
Since you seem to place so much belief in metas, why don't we talk about that one for a while?

Prime example of non-sincere Xite attacks. I'm so glad I brought up Adel's scum meta earlier.

the only way I would move to Xite would be to avoid a no-lynch

fitz, you should really read mod posts in all your games, they contain a lot of useful information. Frexample:

16) At deadline, the player with the most votes is lynched. If there is a tie, the player who had the most votes first will be lynched.

There is no chance of a no lynch.

You've watched too many movies. Scum don't actually explain their clever plan to the hero before they carry it out.

Scum players, by and large, are not Bond villains. They don't twirl their moustaches and explain their evil plans, or at least not until the game is over and their evil plans have already come to fruition.

tomorrow wendy is Adel. Since he is not massaging my ego in an attempt to influence my vote, I assume he is town, because he knows I'm easy.

I'm mildly concerned.

darn, I was hoping for Nexus to vote for xite. That puts me at 5, and xite is still only at 4. I expect that CA will also vote for me, so IAU and llamafluff you guys have to vote for xite before CA has a chance to vote for me, or else I will be the deadline lynch.

On it.

mod: request replacement

-- mafia isn't a good idea for me anymore.
sorry folks, enjoy the rest of your game. I replaced in with the best on intentions, but I still care too much.

I understand. I'm disappointed, and I hope you'll reconsider, but I understand.

You've basically ruined the first day, wendy.

Signal:noise ratio increased, but signal in general also increased imo.

VOTE: Xite

[iamausername]

Leech, why don't you want to lynch ConfidAnon?

I never said I was opposed to a CA lynch.

I also want to draw attention to this, because it really bothers me but I'm not sure why.

[Nexus]

"Signal:noise ratio increased, but signal in general also increased imo. "

eh?

[iamausername]

I think that since wendy replaced into the game, the signal to noise ratio has increased. I also think that since wendy replaced into the game, the signal has increased.

wendy's play has made day one more worthwhile, but has also made it harder to find the worthwhile stuff.

I don't envy the replacements.

[PranaDevil]

If by worthwhile you mean "showed us obvscum" then I agree. However I definitely agree on your second point.

All wendy has done, as far as I'm concerned, is make a lot of noise and do nothing of worth. He needs to be the day 1 lynch.

[Nightwolf]

I just thought of something after seeing wendy's quote in iau's post that says iau and LF have to vote Xite before CA can vote wendy in order for the Xite wagon to win. wendy voted himself before dropping out, putting that wagon up to 6 already. How is the Xite wagon supposed to get to 6 first now that wendy dropped assuming 1) that wendy is too aggrivated to check back at this game again and 2) there isn't a replacement already lined up that can hop in almost immediately to unvote. It seems wendy may have killed himself off either way now.

[tomorrow wendy]

I just thought of something after seeing wendy's quote in iau's post that says iau and LF have to vote Xite before CA can vote wendy in order for the Xite wagon to win. wendy voted himself before dropping out, putting that wagon up to 6 already. How is the Xite wagon supposed to get to 6 first now that wendy dropped assuming 1) that wendy is too aggrivated to check back at this game again and 2) there isn't a replacement already lined up that can hop in almost immediately to unvote. It seems wendy may have killed himself off either way now.

good point.

vote:xite

[LoudmouthLee]

By the way, Wendy requested replacement when he thought he was going to be lynched, saw that xite got another vote, and just placed the swing vote. How freaking ridiculous is this?

An appeal to authority to Wendy, since he likes it so much, taken from Glork's signature.

NO PROTOWN PLAYER SHOULD EVER HAMMER THEMSELVES, BECAUSE IT IS PROBABLY THE STUPIDEST THING YOU COULD POSSIBLY DO (POSSIBLY ASIDE FROM NO-LYNCHING DAY ONE).

You didn't hammer yourself, instead you voted yourself out of scum frustration. And then you left. Again, out of frustration of being caught.

Please, someone look at what Wendy just did. I have a gut feeling we're going to lose a whole day if we don't make Wendy swing.

[Nexus]

That's why I was so frustrated. Even if she isn't scum, she's dicked over whoever so replaces her.

[Nightwolf]

I'm torn. At least more so then I was earlier this morning when I made my other posts. But now that I've cooled down a bit (just reading overly angry posts tends to get me to a similar level of anger for some reason), my calmer mind is telling me to stick with Xite.

@ LmL:

Define/explain "and just placed the swing vote" in the current context.

[LoudmouthLee]

Unless there's a change, and my math doesn't fail me... tomorrow wendy, after iam voted for xite, unvoted herself and voted for xite, making xite the current vote leader, hence, swing vote.

[Nexus]

Nah, tis 5 all, and tw will get lynched at the deadline as she was on 5 first.

[iamausername]

I cba to look up the exact order the votes appeared, but it's something like:

wendy (5) - lml, fitz, prana, xite, nexus
xite (5) - nightwolf, lat, leech, iam, wendy
ca (1) - llama
llama (1) - ca

with Llama having stated a preference for xite over wendy, and CA's vote sitting in limbo unless we get a super swift replacement.

INFORMATION INSTEAD OF ANALYSIS

[Nexus]

You've got the order of votes correct there.

[iamausername]

see the "scumhunting" thread at http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewto ... =5&t=12572

This thread is a good read, btw. I reccomend all townies take a look at it overnight.

[Xite91]

Oh my fucking god wendy, shut up and let us kill you.
You are making me not like this game and that takes a whole hell of a lot.
As for the points I had against you in the past few pages? Pointless because now you are obvscum even more than before and if the rest of the people in this game don't see it i'll

Hm, it's nice to see you're serious now tw, and it looks like Prana's getting a little angry.

Prana and Xite, what do the two of you think of each other?

I don't have much to say about the last two pages. A lot of it is just discussion about no lynch and ongoing games. tw don't you think the scum already have a good idea about who they're going to kill, and if we do lynch now that would help the town get information faster and lynch scum faster?

I don't have much of an opinion on prana since i seem to replace out of all of the games we play in
How does Wendy seem serious?

[Xite91]

Oh, sorry lat, got caught up in all this meta crap wendy's spewing.
I don't know what he is so far, I want to wait to see the NK to have much of an opinion on him.

[Lateralus22]

How can neither of you have not have an opinion on each other? You're both playing the same game, and you've both been here for a while.

How does Wendy not seem serious?

[Xite91]

How can neither of you have not have an opinion on each other? You're both playing the same game, and you've both been here for a while.

How does Wendy not seem serious?

Eh, he hasn't done anything worth really noting. I'm glad he agrees with me on the wendy case, but further than that I'll have to wait and see when the noise is gone.

Are

you

serious?

[LlamaFluff]

Havent read since my last post but a skim shows lack of sudden CA wagon

vote xite