Mini 1021: Battousai's Mountaintnous Mountain Mafia (Over)

[havingfitz]

@Xite...so you suspect me because I have been bussing dalt/tw/Adel. Why in a 2 scum game would meScum bus my lone partner daltScum so hard all day when dalt was not getting any attention (for the most part) from anyone else in the game? I could see bussing someone who was scummy from the get go and garnering the suspcions of others. But why go out of my way to initiate and sustain a case on a partner? When it would have been just as easy to go with the flow on the CA wagon or hop on to a healthy Nexus wagon a bit later once no one agreed with me? Instead I change over to a Korashk wagon upon whom I had named as my #2 suspect (with reasons) before anyone else (other than a ninja'd vote by 5 minutes from CA) had even voted for him?

tl:dr -

anyone accusing me of bussing a lone partner in a two player game...and maintaining that opinion of guilt with their replacement when there have been frequent options to switch elsewhere ...fmpov is sadly mistaken or scum.

1) People had expressed suspicion on Korashk far before you made a case on him. Just because they hadn't voted didn't mean they weren't getting there.
2) You would have done it to do exactly what you're doing now, WIFOM
3) I wouldn't feel this way if you hadn't pushed the way you did on Dalt, then when suspicion on Wendy came about went asked questions that FMPOV was you saying "See, now you're suspicious of that slot"

1) The fact is, other than my suspicions raised in parallel with CA’s vote on him..(and dalt’s random vote which I overlooked) Korashk had only caught the eye of a few people. The same could be said for almost every player in the game.
2) No I would not have. Got meta? Telepathetic? I would not work so hard to get rid of my partner by initiating and propagating a case that no one else had even brought up or supported. Ridiculous assertion of yours and anyone else who thinks it.
3) Not sure which instance you are referring to…but I did/do think dalt’s slot is scum and once people started suspecting that slot (because of tdel) it sdid come across as ironic to me and in hindsight…supportive of my earlier dalt suspicions. No denial from me on those points.

You mentioned you were an expert at the WIFOM game. You also appear to be an expert at the hyperbole game:

I think that Fitz has been bussing Dalt and now wendy (

look at how convinced he is that they're scum, then he gets angry when no one listens

, so on and so forth, he knows they're scum and feels like he can coast off of that when they flip "See guys, now you know I'm town because I was the one that pushed for their lynch!" I've seen it done plenty of times)

4)

His violent attack on the easiest player

to attack should say enough?

I look forward to seeing how you exaggerate my anger and violence to even higher levels.

preview edit...I see tdel is throwing in the towel. Kind of a compromise between your earlier self lynch and no lynch votes but without the commitment. Nice.

[tomorrow wendy]

post 500 is an example of scum distancing.

[Xite91]

@Wendy - And you say my signal to noise ratio is bad?
@Fitz -
1) Ok, fair enough
2) No, and as much as I wish (and then don't because it would be a hassle) no. But I see what you're doing now, and I'm fairly certain that's what you would have done then.
Were you not convinced that dalt was scum? Were you not angry when everyone just looked the other way?
It WAS a violent attack on him, one of those kinds where you're kicking the person while they're down, or using a medium range weapon on him when he has none (and no training for that matter)

[Xite91]

post 500 is an example of scum distancing.

sure it is?

[Nexus]

Oh come on tw. As an experienced player, wouldn't you fight your corner to the very last?

Prove to me and others that someone else is scum, and you could escape, instead of throwing in the towel :/

Saying that, last time someone did that in a game I was in, they were town. Not that I put much stay in that.

[havingfitz]

fmpov you have done quite a bit of that with Xite as well. While continuing to ignore more than one coment/question directed at you by me.

P.s a re-read of your post 498 is quite a good laugh. That is the limpest towel I've ever seen thrown in. You don't even commit to anything with it. It's just some throw away whinging.

Why don't you just assert you are town...and say honest injun...so we can believe you and try to find the real scum.

[Xite91]

fmpov you have done quite a bit of that with Xite as well. While continuing to ignore more than one coment/question directed at you by me.

P.s a re-read of your post 498 is quite a good laugh. That is the limpest towel I've ever seen thrown in. You don't even commit to anything with it. It's just some throw away whinging.

Why don't you just assert you are town...and say honest injun...so we can believe you and try to find the real scum.

So... you don't think hes scum now?

[tomorrow wendy]

honest injun, I'm town. please lynch h.fitz and xite.

[havingfitz]

So... you don't think hes scum now?

No...I do think s/he is scum. I'll try to limit my sarcasm for you in the future.

[Leech]

After spending a few hours reading this thread over, a lot of time on Wendy's ISO, I'm going to post a follow up to something I said earlier:

I'm not contributing much to pushing her lynch, at this exact moment in time because I'm thinking about it. Get that, people sometimes think about things before they make a post on it. The fact that Wendy is an alt of a non-newbie player does change the situation. The main question, obviously, being why was Adel playing so horribly, when (s)he is obviously experienced?

I think everyone needs to read Wendy in ISO, if you read it through knowing it's an alt you see a subtle brilliance to his plays. I don't understand the self-vote, still, but a lot of what he was saying did make sense. I don't believe in the no lynch for this phase, but there are pros and cons to it. Playing a newb card to get attention while spouting off legitimate theories, which will be read because of the noise he was making could be a valid town strategy. On the other side of the coin, it would be an extremely lousy scum strategy. Other than Wendy's self-vote, what

really

scummy deed has he done? Reading Wendy in ISO knowing it's an alt, definitely changes the perspective. I just can't write it off as scum behavior anymore, knowing that.

Now onto Xite...

5) For how much you seem to be paying attention to me it amuses me that you didn't catch that I did say some things about it, but more before, when she gave the proof of random and after when she said that her reason for wanting to vote me was because it was easier than Fitz

That is not, at all, what he said. He made two comments on the matter:

nah, I am a

little bit more confident

that h.fitz is scum than xite, but xite would be easier to lynch.

That is a clear indication that between the two suspects he's more suspicious of HF. However, it is also clearly expressed that he's only a little bit more confident. He did not express the reason he wanted to vote you was because you're an easier lynch, rather that he was opting to vote for the easier of the two people he found to be scummy. This really isn't scummy due to the fact that he specifically took the time to say that he was only slightly more confident of HF being scum. That logic is sound, and perfectly reasonable.

Yes, I had two players I was suspicious of , and I took the tactical consideration of lynch capacity into consideration in picking which one to vote for, or in this case figured that the total difference was slim enough that using a provably random mechanism to choose whom to vote for was ok.

This second time he elaborates on it fully stating that it was such a slim distinction that even a random choice would suffice because it was so close to being equal. Again, when you have two people that you feel are almost equally scum, I do not see the harm in going after the "easier lynch" when you still believe you are lynching scum. Nice try manipulating that, though. Considering you obviously read that, as you referenced it in your post, then you had absolutely no reason to misrep it in the manner you did. I didn't like how Wendy expressed the vote as random, but the more I read the more it makes sense.

This is not the first time that you have grossly misrepped another player in this game. This time, though, it was obnoxiously blatant.

Unvote, Vote: Xite

@Wendy: I still want to know why you are posting those graphs before a flip.

[tomorrow wendy]

@Wendy: I still want to know why you are posting those graphs before a flip.

alt fail combined with what I assumed was a more common "adel makes vote diagrams more often as town" meta. I alt slipped, and realized that I needed to post a vote diagram screenshot quickly to meet that meta-expectation. Admittedly, this can wifomed to death, so I'm not claiming it for a town tell or anything, but you asked twice nicely.

[iamausername]

Rather than hopping from the smallest wagon (1) to the other smallest wagon (1) going and urging us so much to come over to CA...why don't you pick one of the popular suspects that might actually have a chance at getting lynched today?

Because I would prefer to lynch scum. I still believe there is a chance of redirecting this lynch to ConfidAnon, and I am going to do everything I can to make that happen, because I don't think either Xite or wendy are particularly likely to be scum.

If I do have to make a choice between Xite and wendy, I'll vote for Xite, as I've said a couple of times. But we're not so close to deadline that I need to make that vote just yet.

And perhaps answering my questions to you?

I'm not seeing any questions that you shouldn't be able to infer the answer to by reading my big post(s) on everyone.

And since I answered your CA question, why don't you tell us why you don't want to vote tw while you are at it.

I don't think wendy is scum.

Anyways my reason is that I'm in more than one game with him and it seems to be his meta. Why don't you read up on him?

...huh. I've been in a game with him before (he replaced out before I replaced in). I thought I remembered his play being different in that game, but it turns out I was confusing him with a different player in the same game (BloodCovenent in British Comedy, for reference). CA did a dalt and only made two posts before he dropped out, so that's pretty useless. Also he was scum, so it doesn't tell me anything about his town meta.

OK, I totally need to check some more of his games.

TRIP REPORT: Looked at his iso in this game, since it was the one complete game listed on his wiki. I'm seeing plenty of actively engaging other players with questions and votes, which look like original thoughts, though I didn't read anyone else's posts in the game. Anyway, my conviction remains. It does not appear to be CA's town meta to coast through the game making no effort whatsoever to find scum. He didn't post a lot in that game, but when he did post, he usually had something worthwhile to say. That's not been the case here.

Hopefully, after I flip y'all will reconsider it for Day 2. In this game, if you chart player proficiency against opinion of no-lynch in this specific setup, you'll see that those with titles and lots of game experience (with the possible exception of LML) agree with me that No Lynch

before mylo

is a key consideration.

Well, I don't have a title, but...

I don't see how it's so vital that it happens before mylo, although I'm coming around to Nightwolf's suggestion that a day earlier would be better. Certainly not worse enough that I'd bother to argue against it.

Unfortunatly I don't have a very good reason, I will however give you the true reason. I was lazy. There was no rush at all, from my point of view it was like I figured out a big piece of the puzzle noticing a scum slip that I figured leads Xite to being scum for sure. In the Nexus situation I was trying to get information, thus putting a vote on for more pressure. With Xite the pressure wasn't needed, I just decided to finish the conversation.

You're wrong, that's the best reason of all.

~the truth will set you free~

I don't feel a CA lynch would give us any information about other's alignment right now

But but but

The reason you feel this is that every fucker is ignoring CA, so it's hard to tell which of them is doing so because he's their scumbuddy. But lynching him would obviously require people to stop ignoring him, so the act of getting him to a lynch would destroy this premise, making it totally invalid as a reason not to lynch him.

it just occurred to me that an excellent argument for lynching xite is that it would shut him up, and make the game more readable for future replacements and those who reread the game. A more informed town is more likely to succeed, and a more readable game thread yields a more reading of the game yields a more informed town.

Interestingly this same argument would work for you was well, wendy.

not really. my signal:noise ratio is rather better than your's

Hmm. I feel like the signal:noise ratio dropped like a stone around about the time wendy entered the game, but I don't think he's directly responsible. His posts seem to have inadvertantly caused others to pile on the irrelevant bullshit.

If I did think wendy was doing it deliberately, I'd on that lynch so fast, because obfuscating the town with irrelevant bullshit is Adel's bread and butter when he's scum.

Again, it wasn't the fact that he dropped the case that bothered me. It was the fact that he dropped a case that he clearly believed in, for something he didn't appear to believing in nearly as much. Recent events and how he's going back with a "told ya so!" attitude does nothing but back my suspicions on his dropping the case to begin with. Considering he's trying to make Wendy's scumminess fit the mold of his previous case on Dalt, really makes me question his hop off of his case to begin with.

My problem is that you were

also

giving him shit before he dropped the case, and saying he was suspicious for finding his case on dalt better than his case on Korashk. So basically, whatever he did in that situation, you were going to continue hounding him.

And his coming back with a "told ya so!" attitude is exactly what I'd expect him to do. Like, if I end up having to vote Xite here, and then come tomorrow everyone suddenly realises that oh yeah, CA is obvscum, you can bet your behind I'm going to have a "told ya so!" attitude. I don't understand at all how you can say this is scummy.

Why are you so insistent on ignoring the fact that I've stated multiple times that there is nothing wrong with gut feelings? I said I don't consider a gut feeling to be the sole reason to vote. That was the extent of it. I've seen scum use gut as a reason far too often to accept that as a viable reason. It's indisputable and I don't think that should ever be the determining factor for that very reason.

orite

I'm not ignoring that. What you are wrong about is the idea that using gut and solely gut is unacceptable. That's wrong. It's totally fine. Sorry I haven't made that clear before.

Mind pointing out a few of the things I'm wrong about when it relates to Xite? You said "all his stuff" so you should have plenty you can show me. Just saying a person is wrong is no where near as effective as showing instances where I am wrong.

All his stuff. Literally everything you have ever posted about Xite is wrong. That's what I said.

I never said I was opposed to a CA lynch.

Are you opposed to a CA lynch?

Yeah, only problem is, seeing the way people flip greatly increases the chances of catching scum, regardless of your statistics.

No, no it doesn't.

There's a few suspect things about the way that TW posted that information. First, he didn't explain it, at all. What good is a bunch of numbers and colors when you don't get any sort of key to see what it means. He was quick to explain it once asked, but why didn't he just say it right away? Think for a minute about this. He was looking like he was going to be the lynch of the day, can you seriously not see a scum reason to post that?

I didn't have any trouble understanding it. It was pretty straightforward. I can see wendy assuming that no one would need a key.

Also, I really have no idea what you're talking about with the scum reason to post it. Please enlighten us.

One of the reasons why I'm leaning towards voting TW over anyone else is that I see her as the most anti-town and distracting. Xite's not much better, but I believe that tw is more damaging for the town. It's frustrating me, but she keeps digging herself deeper.

Giving into this lets the terrorists win, Nexus. It's frustrating, because deep down you think wendy is town. And if you think wendy is town, you shouldn't want to lynch him. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

honest injun, I'm town. please lynch h.fitz and xite.

If we lynch xite and he flips town, will you help me lynch CA tomorrow?

[Lateralus22]

1) You don't wanna hug and hold me forever? T_T

I didn't say I didn't want to.

2) I attacked him for it? I think I asked him about it, but he asked me why I didn't notice something about his chart and I gave my honest reason, it's too complicated for me to care about it until it's actually useful

Dismissing his contribution and calling it useless is not an attack?

3) I don't care enough to make a case with points that I've already stated, especially when it's pretty obvious why the person is scum/scummy to me

The case isn't for you, it's for the town. Since you're refusing to go back and make a case with all the points for us to see this leads me to believe two things.

1. Points aren't even there, or their too weak and that if you post them for us all to see you're afraid of being exposed, and you won't able to hold onto any weak or non nonexistent points.

2. You really don't care about finding scum at all, which is just plain anti-town / scummy.

4) Awww does that mean that you consider me a good player?

If I told you I'd have to lynch you.

5) Why don't you come down from that fence, lat?

What fence? Do I really need to put it bluntly?

1. tomorrow wendy is town, he is messing with us.
a. This is purely for his own entertainment, but this also gives reactions giving information.
b. He's been lying, this is for reactions. After around the time Prana and LmL started voting for him, he decided the self vote and no lynch would give reactions. At this point he isn't really trying to lynch scum but again this goes on putting forth information based on which stance every player takes.

2. Wendy is scum, he likes to confuse us.
a. He self destructed around the time Prana and LmL voted for him.
b. He decided to be useful and make his voting charts in order to make us wonder what his alignment is and what motivations he has. This is more of weak play on his part. As scum's goal is for survival tomorrow wendy's behavior is irritating for the town and has made many of them against him.

There really wasn't any point to most of this, if he's trying to survive then he probably to go with some WIFOM and make us wonder why he does something and what that means and keep him alive. Though, he seems to be doing the whole WIFOM thing I mentioned rather well... still believe reason 1.

Point one seems more likely, and makes more sense if wendy is experienced, and is trying to win.

Now why would I be less against the wendy lynch than I was before? Dalt's spot holds a pretty important place. Not only do we get a better idea about tomorrow wendy's reasons for things but we get a better look at havingfitz and a few others who have posted with tomorrow wendy.

Now I'd want your lynch more than tomorrow wendy because I believe you to be scum, we still get a good day 1 no matter what tommorrow wendy flips but again still think your scum so I still want your lynch.

Huh? How are any of the graphics tdel has provided been of use? As we get further into the game that sort of analysis will be more and more beneficial...but on D1 it doesn't mean a thing. So the three examples tdel has posted are just taking up space and not providing anything of value.

As we get further into the game that sort of analysis will be more and more beneficial

@Nexus

I asked you a question post #480

Would you like to answer it?

[Nexus]

Which three players? Wendy, Prana and Fitz?

Wendy: anti-town play, definitely. Not sure if scum or not, but the one I'm most tempted to vote for.
Fitz: I thought he was quite scummy the way he chased down dalt's slot, before switching. Still feel the same, but have been distracted by wendy.
Prana: I don't like that he went through a phase of not contributing anything unless poked. However, I haven't seen anything really scummy from him.

[LoudmouthLee]

But but but

The reason you feel this is that every fucker is ignoring CA, so it's hard to tell which of them is doing so because he's their scumbuddy. But lynching him would obviously require people to stop ignoring him, so the act of getting him to a lynch would destroy this premise, making it totally invalid as a reason not to lynch him.

Yes, but being so close to deadline (and we really should lynch today, much to the chagrin of Adel), we have only 3 viable targets with votes: TW, Xite and CA. If everyone said.. "Cool. Let's lynch CA." and 4 people jumped, and CA flipped town, it would give us no information about the others. I am willing, however, to play your game.

I think the meta needs to be changed. I have a major problem with it. Town needs to stop acting scummy and say they're running gambits. It's making it much harder for the real townies to find the logic. Not everyone needs to be professor freaking mafia. When the rest of the town doesn't know you're gambiting (as they shouldn't), it can look scummy.

What's EVEN WORSE is that the remainder of the town has been "brilliant gambit, Adel" when... ugh.

I'm truly grossed out by the current meta. Shit's flying now that wouldn't have even been discussed in the past.

[LlamaFluff]

Due to an extreme lack of posting time over this weekend (yes I realize when deadline is but it cant be avoided) I am going to leave my vote on CA, for previous things, and a few additonal posts such as this.

It's somewhat hilarious that TW was Adel.

Was the slip-up with your alt a complete accident, Adel?

Also, not liking Xite's reactions right now.

Comes in and has his entire opinion on the TW/Adel thing as "lol its an alt". No push on alignment, no questions pretaining to the game, not even a hint of what he thinks TW is.

Also we have a setup to be able to move onto xite for "reactions" right at the time the xite wagon is starting to gain some ground near deadline.

[Battousai]

Vote Count:

tomorrow wendy

-4- Xite91, LoudmouthLee, PranaDevil, havingfitz

Xite91

-3- Lateralus22, Nightwolf, Leech

ConfidAnon

-2- Llamafluff, iamausername

Llamafluff

-1- ConfidAnon

havingfitz

-1- tomorrow wendy

Not Voting:

Nexus

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch (pre-deadline)!

...

Deadline is Sunday, August 22nd at 1000hrs (GMT-5)

[tomorrow wendy]

sure, I'll be happy to trade a Xite lynch for a CA lynch.

[tomorrow wendy]

unvote,vote:xite

so that llamafluff has a chance to change his vote to a winning wagon before the weekend.

[Xite91]

Okay, so I had a bunch of posts I wanted to respond to but it pretty much amounts to this and I"m too lazy and too strapped for time to say the same thing again and again.
First, the Adel slip was almost obviously on purpose to get you guys to do what you're doing.
And then he says that he posted the chart to fulfill his meta?
But didn't someone say that posting useless information and pushing irrelevant things was his scum meta?
And he said that that chart wasn't useful until at least tomorrow.
Just sayin.

Second, Lat, I don't care to post a case because if you ISO me you'll see things like ^that throughout my ISO and I lack enough givadamn and time to go back and copypasta my case.

Third, If you guys lynch me I expect a Wendy lynch tomorrow and then maybe either IAU, lat or nightwolf, but based on IAU's last post, I'd prefer him. I think Lat is just following his footsteps (AKA Lat is probably an impressionable townie), and I don't think Nightwolf is paying attention to the rest of the game, just the "scummiest" people

Fourth, Fitz, I see what you're saying, but the reason it was so scummy was the way that you worded it, not what you were trying to say.

If you want me to answer any questions, go ahead and ask, but I think I just summarized everything everyone was saying about the situation that was important
Oh yeah, and wendy is scum. Lynch Wendy plox

[tomorrow wendy]

Okay, so I had a bunch of posts I wanted to respond to but it pretty much amounts to this and I"m too lazy and too strapped for time to say the same thing again and again.
First, the Adel slip was almost obviously on purpose to get you guys to do what you're doing.
And then he says that he posted the chart to fulfill his meta?
But didn't someone say that posting useless information and pushing irrelevant things was his scum meta?
And he said that that chart wasn't useful until at least tomorrow.
Just sayin.

gosh, day 1 is serious business.

as scum, I expect that I would've slipped through day 1 rather easily, and if cornered down the road I would've make sure to out post my attackers and kick up some super serious chaos if I got cornered... which wouldn't have happened on day 1. (btw, the whole "wendy panicked at lynch -2 is a red herring. I know I could've hung out at lynch-1 for a while without actually being hung.)

.
Prana: I don't like that he went through a phase of not contributing anything unless poked.

you're welcome for poking him then.

[Xite91]

Oh boy WIFOM!
Or you got caught and so you're doing that during D1?
Lesse... who were two of your biggest attackers...
Me and.... Fitz!
Holy hell I think we've found something

[tomorrow wendy]

Oh boy WIFOM!
Or you got caught and so you're doing that during D1?
Lesse... who were two of your biggest attackers...
Me and.... Fitz!
Holy hell I think we've found something

reminds me of

it just occurred to me that an excellent argument for lynching xite is that it would shut him up, and make the game more readable for future replacements and those who reread the game. A more informed town is more likely to succeed, and a more readable game thread yields a more reading of the game yields a more informed town.

Interestingly this same argument would work for you was well, wendy.

not really. my signal:noise ratio is rather better than your's

I dunno, I think you're both as bad as each other.

You're about to have another argument which will no doubt go on for another few posts, not really providing any of us with anything useful.

and

calling scumteam of "Xite91 + havingfitz"

and

my assessment: nolynch is optimal, followed by h.fitz lynch, followed by xite lynch.


I am a baller

and

calling scumteam of "Xite91 + havingfitz"

told ya!

[Leech]

My problem is that you were also giving him shit before he dropped the case, and saying he was suspicious for finding his case on dalt better than his case on Korashk. So basically, whatever he did in that situation, you were going to continue hounding him.

Are we talking in circles now? I've always maintained that his case on Korashk was an actual case and his on Dalt wasn't. My point was he clearly believed the other one more, yet switched to something he believed in less. I thought it was outrageous that he'd put more weight on his case on Dalt in the first place, but that has no bearing on the fact that he was clearly expressing that he felt his case on Dalt was stronger. This isn't about my perspective, but his. Wendy's lottery post showcased how he felt his suspects were so close that he could rely on a random mechanism to be the deciding factor, and I can understand that. HF going with the weaker of his two suspects for reasons that he had already expressed where "second place" I do not.

The last line of that is pure speculation, by the way. Had he maintained his position on the case, while I would think he was following the weaker of his two cases, but at least he would be consistent in his beliefs. I'd find to have been far more of a town-tell than switching in the manner he did.

Like, if I end up having to vote Xite here, and then come tomorrow everyone suddenly realises that oh yeah, CA is obvscum, you can bet your behind I'm going to have a "told ya so!" attitude. I don't understand at all how you can say this is scummy.

That's not the same thing. If CA gets replaced tomorrow and you try and make the replacement fit the mold of the previous player in that slot, for a completely null situation then you shouldn't have that attitude.

I'm not ignoring that. What you are wrong about is the idea that using gut and solely gut is unacceptable. That's wrong. It's totally fine. Sorry I haven't made that clear before.

It would be perfectly fine if it didn't get in the way of actual scumhunting, which it does.

Are you opposed to a CA lynch?

I'm not directly opposed to a CA lynch, he is scummy. I just do not think he's the best lynch for the day. I see some valid points in your case against him, but I don't think he's been nearly as scummy as Xite has in this game.

Also, I really have no idea what you're talking about with the scum reason to post it. Please enlighten us.

Wendy is currently claiming that he wasn't worried about being L-1, let alone L-2. He said he could have hung in there for a while. Well, that's clearly not the case as he also stated that he had to post a chart because that lived up to his town meta. (Though, by acknowledging he did this specifically for meta purposes, it made the act worthless.) So, he clearly posted it as a means to try and get some towncred and prevent his lynch. The problem is that information doesn't really become all that useful until we see a flip. What it does accomplish, however, is providing valuable information for scum. It goes back to my reason for hating scumlists. Scum can use that data to get a feel for who will look scummy after a lynch and keep certain players around for the suspicion it will provide post-lynch. Also it can allow the scum to use it to manipulate the lynch today as well. After a lynch that is good data to have, posting it before can manipulate scum votes to make it less useful.

as scum, I expect that I would've slipped through day 1 rather easily, and if cornered down the road I would've make sure to out post my attackers and kick up some super serious chaos if I got cornered... which wouldn't have happened on day 1. (btw, the whole "wendy panicked at lynch -2 is a red herring. I know I could've hung out at lynch-1 for a while without actually being hung.)

I'm not sure I follow that. You did kick up "some super serious chaos" when you were cornered. You're saying that if you were scum, it just wouldn't have happened on day 1? Also, I'm not sure how much of a red herring that actually is when you admittedly posted a chart specifically to live up to your town meta. If you were legitimately comfortable being in that place, why did you play to your meta instead of just note the alt fail?

Lesse... who were two of your biggest attackers...
Me and.... Fitz!
Holy hell I think we've found something

How is that relevant?

[Nightwolf]

Well, it doesn't look like CA checked back in, which is disappointing. Anyway, here are more comments on CA as promised (though admittedly late):

His last post did a lot for the case against him, in my view. Stops by to avoid a prod to do what? Comment on no lynch and nothing else going on in the game since his last post. All while leaving his vote on

Korashk

. He has not voiced one suspicion of LF since he replaced in. CA also does not mention Xite or wendy at all in this post even though the one before it says that he isn't liking Xite's reactions. This is still more recent than his case on Kor (which wasn't very strong to begin with), and I would think that noticing that he isn't liking Xite's reactions would at the very least give him

something

to look for/at when he checked in this time, and either way, after a statement like that I would expect some sort of comment on his vote, which is otherwise hanging on a player that left the game quite a while ago.
(As for the relavence of my question to him and how it relates: There had been mention of no lynch previous to his "lol alt" post as well, which he didn't reply to at that time, so with no answer from him to my recent question to go by, I am assuming that he read at least enough to get to wendy specifically asking him for his view on it.)

Somewhat of additional response to previous why wasnt I voting CA question:

Post #81: Yeah, I'm still not going to let that "wrong wording" bit go. It's just straight up bullshit, I do not believe for a second that CA accidentally used the phrase "I am pushing for your lynch" when he did not mean it, and I don't know why most everyone else seems to be happy to let this slide.

This seemed to be one of your most important points when you wrote that post, and I do not agree with it (at least not to a strong degree). I view it somewhere between null and mildly scummy. Since CA has already responded when initially questioned on it and doesn't look like he has more to say about it, I'll also say why. Look at the quote in this post. It could have easily just been mirroring the language used at the time by Prana as his focus was to correct the reason Prana listed after those words rather than the words themselves.

I also did not like a CA lynch compared to a Xite one because of the lack of interactions CA has had with people (except for very early in the game when reads would still be weak) and agree to a degree with LmL that switching the vote to him this late won't add much for those who don't hop on since there isn't much time to develop opinions on him, making it more of an all or nothing decision for people. I recently thought of a couple minor things that help as a counterweight though in my view (which I'd rather not mention at this time).

Anyway, I feel good enough about a CA lynch at this point to make the following statement:
I believe there is enough support around for a Xite lynch to at least tie if not win out over a wendy lynch, so I am keeping my vote on Xite. I would not mind lending my vote to a CA lynch instead if it can get enough to win out over a wendy lynch. The only thing that could change this is if CA makes a post within the next ~24 hours that is somehow good enough to change my view of him. I believe this is very unlikely.

@iau:

If we lynch xite and he flips town, will you help me lynch CA tomorrow?

You asked this question to wendy, I would like you to answer the opposite of it yourself. If CA is lynched and flips town, would you support a Xite lynch tomorrow? If not, who?

@Xite:

I assume you realize that 1-3 were directed at iau and not yourself, so it was just me clarifying my view in the light of his post. Anyway:
2) Yeah, that is pretty much WIFOM, at the very least since I haven't looked into it yet to tell if that would have any point to stand on at all. However, 2) and 3) were just an explanation of where I stand from both points of view. I suscribe more to that within 3), but I believe that you probably had more the point of view of 2) when you pulled the gambit according to what I've seen. Therefore, I was acknowledging it as being a potential point of view, and was stating that it did not make you or Nexus automatically town to me as iau seemed to imply it should.

5) Well, let's see. I find your gambit really anti-town. You are posting a lot and yet don't seem to be doing too much scumhunting (even before everyone started the major 'interrogate Xite' phase). Your case on Nexus who you thought was town when you made it contains better reasoning (in my view) than your cases on Lat and fitz who you did suspect. Often when you do say something is scummy, you don't often support it by explaining why or how and instead let others do so if they agree. You have some inconsistencies in your posts. I can see scum motivation for basically all of your actions and find it harder to see town motivations. I think that about summarizes it.

and I don't think Nightwolf is paying attention to the rest of the game, just the "scummiest" people

I'm paying attention to the game, but no I don't feel the need to confront those who aren't near the top of my list with more than an occasional question or two. Any points against them will still be there if/when I believe they are scum.

@LmL:

I'm still shocked at the number of people who continually forget the main rule of Occam's Razor. Paraphrased, the simplest solution is generally the correct one. Instead of saying "TW/Adel must have been running a gambit", why can't we say "TW/Adel was incredibly scummy, has numerous cases pressed against him/her, ans should be lynched." Instead, you go out of your way to include a NEW ASSUMPTION about the situation. (Adel would NEVER play like this as scum. It's too obvious.)

As for the part in parentheses at the end, if it was meant to take my position to the extreme then I cant really say its wrong. The only thing I wish to clarify there is that by specifying Adel in that statement, you seem to think I have meta on him. I do not other than the general idea that Adel is at least somewhat known for making complex charts and/or graphs, which is something I do not believe is likely to be affected by whether he is town or scum. Therefore, my position is more that "I find it rather unlikely that any experienced and competent player would leave the kind of tells wendy did in the way that he did (aka a fairly obvious way), even when posing as a newbie." I could provide a few examples of my train of thought with regards to some of wendy's actions, if you'd like.

As for Occam's Razor, strictly applying that would often leave out room to consider a player's motivations on most if not all cases, leaving the only option to often be simply counting up supposed scumtells and lynching the player with the most.
A perfect example:

Dalt's first incorrectly parsed vote was on Saga, who is Nightwolf now. In the stone age, it was commonplace for new scum to vote their partner out of the gate as a way of 'distancing.' It's odder that Nightwolf currently is defending TW's actions (former Dalt's actions) by playing the "Adel would never do that" card.

It also makes me wonder if the Alt was possibly outted on purpose for that rationale.

Occam's Razor. The simplest solution is that wendy being Adel's alt was revealed on accident. It does not include any assumption of a motive behind revealing that fact. So please do not try to push an idea that you even broke yourself, ok?

Quick note:

I haven't read this last page (page 21) as closely as I should have yet, so if I missed something that I was supposed to reply to there I'll make sure to get to it next post.