Mini 1000: The Brave and the Beautiful (Game Over)

[Iecerint]

Why would it have been careless to have told the truth about Grapple Beam?

[Kast]

If MoI is telling the truth, then this is a careless paraphrase:

Any abilities used on Neto during the Night would also be used on the target.

His current claim is essentially:

Any non-kill abilities used on Neto during the Night would also be used on the target. If Neto dies, the target will also die with "destroyed" as the death flavor.

[Iecerint]

Furco, I'm assuming you didn't get any "someone tried to kill me" flavor?

[Kast]

I've asked RC a few times now to try and figure out if there is any possible way my kills could result in someone dying with the flavor "destroyed". He won't answer any questions that could potentially confirm or deny hypothetical roles, but he has make it clear that anyone who dies from a bullet would have the death flavor "Shot".

From a flavor standpoint, the Grapple Beam in Metroid games doesn't really have a similar effect to what MoI is claiming. The closest thing would be the SSB Grapple Beam used as a grab. And while players can die while grabbed, but that's only a result of being hit by an attack or item, not from some inherent tie with Samus.

I can understand reluctance to lynch MoI given flavor info that implies a successful protection; but I don't see any way plausible way that MoI's claim about Neto can be true.

[Muffin]

@MoI/Muffin-
-What do you think about Shotty-SK claiming that he has no more kills?

Easy enough to simply no-action for a night. Alternatively he could have been blocked and then played it off as being "out of kills".

I recognize that the "shot" death flavor would be revealing if it appeared later, after shotty had claimed he was out of kills.

[Iecerint]

I've just received a PM from RC indicating that that last N3 PM may have been sent to everyone. That is, I may not have gotten a flavor PM at all on account of using Protect rather than an Investigative ability.

So, you can look at your D4 start PMs to probably see what I'm talking about in terms of the GoW allusion.

Waiting to get confirmation that the first bit of it wasn't personalized for me.

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: I say "may" because it's unclear how much of it was sent to everyone. I may've got edits or whatever.

[Muffin]

If MoI is telling the truth, then this is a careless paraphrase:

Any abilities used on Neto during the Night would also be used on the target.

His current claim is essentially:

Any non-kill abilities used on Neto during the Night would also be used on the target. If Neto dies, the target will also die with "destroyed" as the death flavor.

The simple fact is that you don't KNOW that the "shot" flavour would carry over to the grapple target. You're just assuming.

[Iecerint]

@ Kast, you could explain the flavors like this:

Scum: scratched and torn to pieces
Vig/SK: shot
Other: destroyed

Since SX matchs lynch flavor, which doesn't make a lot of sense, really.

I agree that the default assumption would be flavor-matching.

[Muffin]

I've just received a PM from RC indicating that that last N3 PM may have been sent to everyone. That is, I may not have gotten a flavor PM at all on account of using Protect rather than an Investigative ability.

So, you can look at your D4 start PMs to probably see what I'm talking about in terms of the GoW allusion.

Waiting to get confirmation that the first bit of it wasn't personalized for me.

I got a similar PM but didn't make the connection to Gears of War. Mine was only 3 lines long.

[Iecerint]

Based on a google search, that last line is a GoW allusion. Could be my mistake; like I said, I've never played the game.

RC has confirmed that everyone got that last bit, so there is no longer anything for me to outguess with regard to whether I was the reason for the lack of an N3 kill.

[Muffin]

-Shotty received a Night 2 Results PM which included flavor that stated Chun Li's room had an evil smell, though Chun Li herself had nothing evil or anything that indicated her of being evil.

Why did shotty receive a results PM involving Chun Li's room if shotty was at my room trying to kill me? Do you have a 2nd power/ability?

[Muffin]

-Shotty received a Night 2 Results PM which included flavor that stated Chun Li's room had an evil smell, though Chun Li herself had nothing evil or anything that indicated her of being evil.

Also the use of the word "smell" is interesting because that's how Robo's alignment was originally presented to me, as the overwhelming smell of evil. I didn't think anything of it at the time but is it possible we have a role whose abilities involve making targets appear guilty to cop investigations? That might explain why my result was wrong (assuming robo is indeed town).

[Iecerint]

That's a neat possibility, but it seems really bizarrely fortuitous that the roles would work together so precisely (Framer targets X, Cop targets X, Framer-checker targets X the following night). Though I guess it's not too crazy if FC's ability is passive (it becomes a little less than 5%).

[ReaperCharlie]

To be clear: The following PM was sent to everyone still alive at the end of Night 3/beginning of Day 4:

Day 4 has begun... Surprise, surprise!

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p2419432

"Look at all.. that... juice!" - Pvt. Cole

[Kast]

I recognize that the "shot" death flavor would be revealing if it appeared later, after shotty had claimed he was out of kills.

Do you think an SK would claim this unprompted?
@Iec-
Shotty did not receive any such flavor for N3. I'll ask RC if he forgot to send any PMs though.

The simple fact is that you don't KNOW that the "shot" flavour would carry over to the grapple target. You're just assuming.

That is a misleading statement. A simple fact is that I don't KNOW how my kill would carry over to any of an infinite number of potential hypothetical roles.

I KNOW that my kill flavor would carry over to any flat-out redirection abilities. I also KNOW it would carry over to any flat-out copying abilities. I KNOW that it would carry over to the Grapple Beam IF the Grapple Beam ability works the way MoI initially described it. Obviously he can later claim he messed up his paraphrase, but it loses major credibility at that point.

@Muffin-
I have no idea why Shotty was informed of the Smell of Evil in Robo's room. There is nothing in the role PM that even remotely refers to any such ability or provides any reason for it.

Speculation: It is possible RC just got carried away in writing PM flavor and/or thought it could tie well with Shotty telling RC that he suspected Muffin was lying scum.

[Kast]

@RC-
I did not get that D4 started PM. That is what I was referring to when asking if you missed sending me any N3 PMs.

[Kast]

EBWOP:

@Mod-

I did not get that D4 started PM. That is what I was referring to when asking if you missed sending me any N3 PMs.

[Iecerint]

Oh, wait, nevermind. It's lower than that -- a little over 1% chance (Framer chooses 1/9 * Cop chooses 1/10). Granted that thinking and such make the number a bit higher irl.

[Iecerint]

Kast, did "Smell of Evil" get its own PM, or was it included with a PM that included other information?

From what you said before, it sounded like the implication was that Chun Li was some kind of miller. Was that the impression you were trying to convey?

[Kast]

@Iec-
-It was included at the beginning of another PM as a flashback memory of Chun Li's room.

-I don't know what game relevance (if any) it has. The flavor emphasizes several times that Chun Li herself did not appear to be evil and nothing in Chun Li's room appeared Evil either. There was just an evil smell.

If I had to guess between Chun Li being a Miller or Chun Li being framed, I'd say the flavor sounds more like Chun Li was framed.

HOWEVER, a framer role so unlikely to ever go off that it's negligible. It also just doesn't seem balanced to have limited reveals & scum misinformation roles.

[Kast]

f I had to guess between Chun Li being a Miller or Chun Li being framed, I'd say the flavor sounds more like Chun Li was framed.

Btw, THIS guess is pure speculation that I do not yet see a reasonable explanation for.

[Iecerint]

I think his interpretation is like this:

1. Muffin found that Chun Li spelled evil.
2. Then he was told that he was wrong. Oops!
3. Later you went to her room (or he thought you did) and were told that her room smelled evil, but she wasn't.

So it sounds like you were able to discern that she wasn't evil, even though there was reason to think she was that way (her room).

I agree with your statements about balance and low probability.

When had Shotty been to Chun Li's room? You say "flashback," so....

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: smelled, but ye know

[Muffin]

@Iec-
-It was included at the beginning of another PM as a flashback memory of Chun Li's room.

-I don't know what game relevance (if any) it has. The flavor emphasizes several times that Chun Li herself did not appear to be evil and nothing in Chun Li's room appeared Evil either. There was just an evil smell.

If I had to guess between Chun Li being a Miller or Chun Li being framed, I'd say the flavor sounds more like Chun Li was framed.

HOWEVER, a framer role so unlikely to ever go off that it's negligible. It also just doesn't seem balanced to have limited reveals & scum misinformation roles.

You know, assuming you're telling the truth it kind of pisses me off that a vig with no investigative abilities who didn't target Robo got more info that night than an alignment cop who specifically targeted robo.