Mini 1026 - Ohne Mafia (Game Over!)

[Furcolow]

vote: NicolBolas

for being a liar

[NicolBolas]

Fur- where am i being a liar?

[Furcolow]

"pushing femm" while voting me is lying about who you want lynched

[boberz]

Actuallt Nichol you suggested I had bandwagonned onto FEMM's accusation of flip flopping, I was pointing out it was a crosspost. That is all.

[NicolBolas]

My vote is not on you. My vote is on FEMM. Look at vote count. You probably have me mixed up with somebody else.

I'm confused now...

boberz, you may have cross posted, but later in the game, you said that i was f-fing.

[NicolBolas]

EBWOP: (the First two parts is to furclow.)

[boberz]

@ boberz -

Nervousness isn't a blanket, objective tell that you can apply in all situations. It's something you use on a case by case basis. When I scumhunt, I form a model about how someone thinks based on the way they write, and then I find things that don't match up with that model. If my model is accurate, then the things I found are scum-tells, because they stem from contrived motivations instead of genuine feelings that follow from their way of thinking.

Like I said, nervousness is not necessarily a scum-tell for noob players, or for any player in general who has a track record of being nervous as town. It IS however a scum-tell for YOU, in THIS game, because you are not a noob, and your posts sound contrived. You need to defend your reasoning instead of trying to categorically write off nervousness as a scum-tell. There are many different types of nervousness, and the english language is too crude to meaningfully articulate the differences between some of them. You are scummy because the

specific

things you have written in this game seem to come from a scum mindset, not because I've decided as a matter of principle that nervousness is "always" a scum-tell.

And you still aren't scumhunting.

Whey a bit of theory we agree on, context! We will still have to agree to disagree on this situation, I have articulated my views at such length you have accused me of dwelling on theory so I am just leaving it. I have done a bit of scumhunting, I wish the RQS had developed a bit better and there would have been a fair bit. Further I have a larger post on all followeing.

[NicolBolas]

by the way, is english your native language, boberz?

[boberz]

Yes, but spelling errors come when I dont preview posts, if you are talking about following, being spelt incorrectly. (spelling is pretty poor for me in general)

Why?

[NicolBolas]

All right. Your spelling makes it hard to read your posts at times. for example: "Whey" what is that?

[boberz]

Wraith is not very active, this is not necessarily bad but next time he comes in he needs to do more than cling onto abob's coatails.

Tasky, reading him it kind of look slike he is buddying me (supporting RVS, defending my questions, defending my postion on nerves) but at the same time it does not strike me as bad because I would be a strange choice of buddy in this situation.

NB, adequate defence of flipflopping, although I still sense his attitude towards me shifted dramatically. And thepoints abob made about me had already been made albeit in not quite such an expansive manner. I disagree on his stance regarding the links between fur and femm, I actually think they are unlikely to be partners and I am not a big fan of speculation of this sort but it is not necessarily scummy. NB commits a couple of obvious mistakes (hint of too townie with respect to abob for example) but overall I am now thinking null/leaning town on him.

Moose, instigated political talk, and is very guilty in not letting it drop earlier. Very very lurky. Hung onto the coattails of abob's accusation of me. The flip flop that admittedly wasnt a flip flop was the only content he has posted, now this I feel has been undermined content is needed Now. Actually quite scummy for the lack of content but will to talk about rubbish

vote moose

Hrezs seems to have completely ignored my defences at every turn. Atleast others who are suspicious of me are developing their arguments Hrezs has a very tunnelly mindset I fear. Very reponsible for stagnating discussion over nerves for example. Wraith vote just a bit strange {b} unvote vote Hrezs[/b]

Fur, is stubborn with regards to mafia, he also refuses to explain the reasoning behind what he does or consider other people's ideas, this means he is annoying and always scummy. But it is too early to know, I repeat my request for all to just glance at a couple of fur's games (dont need to read much to realise what I mean) this is actually less scummy or atleast less strange than usual. I am however interested that in answer to my questions he was suggesting he would have to raise his game to find scum, perhaps he should have it permanently raised rather than raising it occasionally.

foilist I dont understand. His case on fur is wrong, but true (ie if he made that case against any other player I would be seriously considering it. I thought his request to abob was a good one, but maybe I am bias lol.

Femm, never answered why the questions were scummy, again hanging to coatails; how how much mafia a player has played is a scummy thing to ask I dont know. Seemed to go agains tthe grain thinking my defence was a good one, others moved off but FEMM seems atleast partially convinced. I am interested what FEMM thinks now regarding NB and flipflopping.

Caelum has done no scumhunting, but made a massive post pretending to, the nearest he got was lurker hunting moose, worth doing but no actual info has been found. Not very good, need more.

Abob has been consistent and persuasive. Many have been clinging to his coattails, but that is not abob's fault.

A2 is going to be replaced I imagine. he is going to turn up ask for time to catch up, by the time he has we have done another 3 pages or whatever he loses morale because a few lurker hunters are voting him and lo and behold welcome replacement.

[Hrezs]

You're an idiot. I'm not tunneling on your nerves. Archaebob already explained in great detail why nervousness can be a scumtell, yet you have to be argumentative about it and just go "no." The fact that YOU keep bringing it up feels like you're derailing the discussion to mafia theory, which is also a scum tell.
I brought up your scummy vote. Deflecting IS a scumtell. It's a "I don't want to be in the limelight and slip back into the shadows" move.
You have not actually defended any of your actions. You continue to prance around going "I'm not doing anything scummy!" Instead of actually explaining anything. You haven't really brough up anything except meta and asking questions, neither of which is very applicable at this time in the game.

Archae- You cover my wraith case pretty much to a T

[Hrezs]

the only thing that makes me hesitate on lynching boberz is that it feels too easy

[boberz]

No Hrezs, the point I am making is not that you find me scummy, but that you seem to ignore the defence and just repeat yourself, as you did again there. I am not continuing to discuss nerves as already discussed, but the word is still going to exist as it has been such a large part of the game.

You cannot just say 'deflecting is scummy' and expect me to defend myself. Because if I dont think it is scummy then what can my defence be. You have to explain yourself when you attack. As abob and others have done.

I did not suggest you were tunneling just on nerves, but more you were apporaching me with a tunelly mindset. Tunnelling to me is symptomatic of having your mind made up and not being opened to other opinions/defences/other arguments etc. This is obviously endemic of a scum mentality as they are looking for mislynhces rather than finding scum.





tags were wrong in the post.

unvote vote Hrezs

[Furcolow]

oh, that was foilist

unvote

sorry

[Hrezs]

You have not posted defense, your defense has been "These things are not scum tells." Its how you started the game. You have to accept that it is a scum tell in situations then explain why what you did is not scummy. Your defense is all of "I'm not scum." Its as if someone was on trial and the prosecution brought up tons of evidence. Then the defendent just went "I didn't do the crime."

[Hrezs]

EBWOP: The jury would just convict the defendent.

[archaebob]

@ Hrezs -

Fine. But in the future, you need to outline your case yourself. I don't intend to make another massive post about everybody again.

@ boberz -

If you post a link to a Furc meta, I'll read it. He doesn't have a wiki, and I'm not going to hunt his past games down.

[boberz]

You have not posted defense, your defense has been "These things are not scum tells." Its how you started the game. You have to accept that it is a scum tell in situations then explain why what you did is not scummy. Your defense is all of "I'm not scum." Its as if someone was on trial and the prosecution brought up tons of evidence. Then the defendent just went "I didn't do the crime."

But I am suggesting there is no evidence just opinion (from you). If you say you look nervous, my reply is I wasnt nervous (and as an offnote stated I didnt think nerves were a scumtell). You may not agree but there is no other defence that can be possible. Unless you want me to lie and create some weird reason from nowhere. The same can be said of overreaction. And deflecting. If you explain why in this situation deflection was scummy then I will answer why it was not in this situation. But if you point at me and say 'deflection = scum' when I was partially deflecting not as scum all I can reply is 'deflection isnt scummy'. What you have done is not find evidence but look for stock tells to throw around. Even then you have only done it twice.

[boberz]

@abob, he was up to his usual tricks in Mafia in Mendo which I linked earlier. But honestly every game it is like that, so to lynch him is more or less a policy lynch.

[Wraith]

Very sorry for my inactivity, but I'm not active lurking. I'm actually posting every time I can get on (except mornings) because I'm out 7:30AM-5:30PM every weekday for two weeks. My activity will improve on weekends and once school starts, I promise. If it gets too bad for me to handle I'll replace out.

Doing a readover of the top suspects (FEMM, boberz, Furcolow, Moose) now. Stay tuned.

[moose200x]

Is my lurking what is making me a top suspect? I am just not feeling "right" in this game. I am having a hard time adjusting to not knowing role setups and feel very uneasy in the grand scheme of things so I've taken a back seat and let others lead in the scum hunting process and plan to chime in or bait when I feel I can be the most effective. If you meta me, I know I will be everyones #1 suspect due to my extreme change of play here.

Also, the political talk and basic rubbish is part of my gameplay strategy but like I said earlier, I feel naked and scared in this game. I am a planner and over thinker, I am not spontaneous. (tho my meta games make it look that way)

[Wraith]

FEMM doesn't give a whole lot of material, but his pressing the so-called NB "flip-flop" issue is unsettling. I've already given my opinion on that.

I'm satisfied by Furcolow's explanation of his flip-flop on boberz (I only skimmed through that). On his supposed "rolefishing," IMO claiming is a good way to slip up scum (by getting a possible counterclaim against them) or to prevent a mislynch of a PR. So asking for a claim is a null-tell to me. However, his last vote on NB reeks of OMGUS. Even though he redacted it, it puts me in the mindset of just finding an excuse to put a vote down.

I'm satisfied with boberz's defenses and scumhunting. I don't suspect him at the moment.

NB's scumhunting is commendable, and he has certainly turned around the attitude toward him since page 2. Right now he and AB are my top two pro-town suspects, although I'n not really sure where NB gets his "FEMM needs to die" attitude from only 8 posts.

Alarm bells are going off in my head right now when I read Hresz's posts. His primary scumdar alerts early on were of "nervousness," when anything can be interpreted as "nervousness" (this paragraph can be interpreted as "nervousness" on my part by a scumbag). He suddenly put down a vote on me with absolutely no reasoning, then took AB's opinions against me as his own case against me when "active lurking," which I've just explained, is no basis alone for a lynch on somebody. Perhaps if that lurker has actively been anti-town in the posts he made, that could be a good basis. But I'm not making stupid votes or accusations. At the moment he is going after boberz while keeping his vote on me, and boberz is at the moment a solid player. I see no reason to suspect him at this time.

Vote: Hrescz

[Wraith]

To add something I forgot to include: Hrescz is going after easy targets. He made a retroactive case against me using the later posts of other people, and is now going after boberz for no real reason.

[NicolBolas]

Moose- This is my first normal in which i have no idea what is going on. Now what do i do? I look for scummy things and call them out. I do not sit back and let others make my case for me. Please read and post your reads on everybody, at least.

Wraith- Why do i think FEMM needs to die? He has been quite scummy in his 8 posts. For example:

Vote: NicolBolas

I know you defended the flip-flopping opinion of boberz, but it still doesn't sit well with me.

He voted me and tried to blame the accusations of flip- flopping on boberz. Shifting blame.

I really want him to come in and give me more content.