Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[Fate]

Nikanor's probably infected bullshit too.

ORRRRRRRR hes town that doesn't trust TNM and is lying as town as Nikanor <3s to do.

[Faraday]

ORRRRRRRRRRRRRR KINETIC'S LAZY.

[Faraday]

this fucking avatar.

[Fate]

WHOS KINECTIC YOUR SCUMBUDDY?


LOL NICE CULTSLIP THE CULT LEADER'S ROLE NAME IS KINETIC!!!!!!!

[Faraday]

LOL YEAH I FUCKED UP THERE >_>

[Mighty Orbots]

So far there's no reason to think that there's any problem with sending Faraday's item to Mina. Mina's PM to Beholder (assuming it's her question about her roleblock) would have gone out before Faraday's order to send the item. Thus far it's safe to assume that neither has been picked up based on what Mina has reported.

Nikanor's transfer to totallynotmafia not going through yet is stranger though I'm not ready to rule out incomplete communication through the mod just yet. We'll see if it goes through now.

I do know that I received an item for Tarhalindur so we're not dealing with something that disrupts item transfers across the board.

At this point, other than getting the items sent, the things that we need to be doing are (I believe) as follows:

1. Get any opposition to the lynch Faraday and mass roleblock plan out in the open. If people don't like it they should speak up now. It would mean that we wouldn't be killing Tarhalindur today so that we can make a more informed decision tomorrow but that doesn't mean that I expect everyone to think it's the best course of action at this time.

2. If we do go with that plan we should get suggestions for how to use various PRs and items to best take advantage of it depending on what Faraday flips. It'll be important that totallynotmafia is on the same page as Mina in that case as they'll be finishing up the jailkeeping/redirecting during the night. Knowing what it makes sense for Parama to do would also be nice as past the roleblocks/redirects his track is our way of keeping tabs on people.

3. Decide what we want to do in terms of worship. We haven't talked about it much today. I'm inclined to try for a majority JCA with the 20% into GOO still. I have no interest in testing Norse or Egyptian at this point but I probably do want ooba to worship one of them alone as I don't want him to use his focus. I'm not at all comfortable with the fact that we can't do anything to roleblock or keep tabs on him at this point.

I'm going to be gone during this weekend for the meet in Portland and Papa Zito is largely busy with RL things at this point. We'll be about before the deadline but you can essentially expect a V/LA from us from Friday to Monday evening PDT. Actually, if it's item transfers as much as anything holding us up I might request a deadline extension of a couple days as there's not much we (as players) can do about much of that. Ideally we'll have things sorted before that's an issue.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[ooba]

While I have no qualms about lynching Faraday, I find the plan of lynching Faraday and not daykilling Tar a contradiction because
- You are not daykilling Tar because you think its a zombie hopping cult based primarily on
-- (a) What Tar claims
-- (b) Faraday tracking Tar to two people
Basing anything on (a) is ridiculous; Therefore you believe Faraday - and are lynching him...

What is the positive trade-off wrt Mina not shooting? (apart from "We'll have a better picture tomorrow") The role cop?
Why did you change your plan from the one outlined in 351? (aka dayvig Tar and let people claim if they've lost a soul)
Addn: A quad role block - when was this claimed .. Still not enough reason to not shoot Tar ...

Still like to reiterate that you're avoiding daykilling Tar based on a theory which more or less hangs on the claim of a guy you're going to lynch ...

See this is what daykilling will give me
- Tar's flip for certain that he is "Zombie big daddy"
- A role cop confirmation for Katy (or) that she is a CL and knew Tar was a zombie big daddy
- A chance that someone might claim soul lost and we can end the cult reign right there
- Importantly, one less person for us to use a roleblock\Jailkeep\Track on - we can save em for the contenders we have left ..

I'm willing to discuss all plans for the night AFTER we daykill Tar ..

[Iecerint]

It's not just a and b, ooba, but also c: the timing of Tar's shift coincided with LMP's death. This COULD have been cleverly manufactured on Tar's part, but it is unlikely IMO.

You think it's at all possible that Tar isn't a zombie?

[ooba]

It's not just a and b, ooba, but also c: the timing of Tar's shift coincided with LMP's death. This COULD have been cleverly manufactured on Tar's part, but it is unlikely IMO.

You think it's at all possible that Tar isn't a zombie?

- Nope. Tar claimed cult which neither town nor mafia would do.
- The issue is that I cannot believe the entire "Tar was town but worshipped stripped after LMP's death" and "Turned cult at night" flow of events - if thats the case it makes even more sense to daykill now as any rational townsperson would claim worship strip

[Iecerint]

- Well, yeah, I agree with you. And Tar's not mafia, anyway, due to ABR being town and 2 lynchers having existed. Do not see what that has to do with SOMETHING appearing to have happened after LMP's death, even if...
- ...you don't buy the details.

[ooba]

- Well, yeah, I agree with you. And Tar's not mafia, anyway, due to ABR being town and 2 lynchers having existed. Do not see what that has to do with SOMETHING appearing to have happened after LMP's death, even if...
- ...you don't buy the details.

So wat is it you're trying to say? Something happened only if you buy Tar's version of what happened .. Again this also boils down to (a) ....

[Iecerint]

Yeah, like I said, it's possible that it could be a gambit, but that strikes me as relatively low-probability given that we know 100% that Tar was lyncher at the start of the game. I suppose the point is that "non-town said it" isn't as damning as it might usually be.

[Mighty Orbots]

@ooba, I think that it's still completely reasonable to think that Zombies are the cult mechanic based on LynchMePls's flip thus far alone.

We now have new information that I didn't have when I was coming up with the previous plan. Either Fate or Faraday is lying. We can at this point assume that at least one of them is scum. Before I didn't have a reason of that sort to think that Faraday might be lying so my plan got around to testing that later rather than sooner.

If we go with the day vig first then we have to make more assumptions about who might or might be cult and we won't be able to safely cover as many people. If we instead use Mina's quad roleblock (which we revealed as an option today some time after revealing she was the day vig) we can effectively lock down everyone who's got a decent chance of being involved in the cult. Containing our potential cult here (and blocking Tarhalindur rather than killing him) in order to gain information about Faraday and Fate is the safer option. We can afford to go slow here. If Faraday is town and telling the truth then we've lost nothing and instead will know we need to do something about Fate tomorrow. If Faraday isn't town then he's been lying since at least Night 4 when he told us in the White Council QT that he'd tracked Fate. If he's a cult leader then killing him now leaves at worst Zombies spreading in some way that we should be shutting down the the role blocks. If he's a cult recruit then he must have been one of the first, Tarhalindur is one of the others (who we'll have locked down) and only real chance for the cult to spread more tonight that I can think of would be if you're a cult leader who's spreading it somehow (though I'm still fairly sure it's spread by the Zombies so I'm not worried about that.)

If you don't want to talk about what to do tonight before we shoot Tarhalindur then at this point you might be giving up your chance to give input at all (as you're certainly not the person who decided whether the shot gets taken.) I don't particularly want that but you're not vital for any of the roleblocking plans we'd use anyhow. What we do with worship is another.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[ooba]

Fine. (More out of frustration because I dont think I can convince Mina about this - instinct still tells me Tar should be vigged)

I'll think about blocks .. If I am right we have ...
- TNM's Jailkeep (assuming we get the item)
- MO - One-shot Track\One-shot redirect ..
- Parama - One-shot Watch
- Mina's Quad roleblock
- Faraday's redirect which went back to (Albatross?)
Anything I missed?

I'll still focus though ... Keep in mind that
- My ability has been proved on N2
- Scum will have always have a doubt as to whether they can NK me without getting killed themselves
- Most importantly, I can NEVER be recruited (sans the window on D4\N4) ..
You really have to take a call .. If you think I'm town - there's no reason to stop my focus ..

Also, it still pays to continue with the splitting of town in worships .. But I really think we need to keep a tighter control on movements .. Players taking unilateral decisions (aka Nik voting JCA or Vas moving about) - might destroy any real info we get on worships .. If we make a plan, we discuss it and then stick to it ..

[Mighty Orbots]

@ooba, I've also got a 1 shot roleblock left.

Parama doesn't have a watch, he's got a track. Faraday's redirect went to Mina (which keeps it a redirect rather than a roleblock.)

The more you play today the less I think you're town and your focus takes away any tools we'd have to check that. The scum night kills aren't something that I'm worried about right now (and if you're sure that Katy is our last mafia and the night kill came from her they shouldn't concern you either). If it comes down to it I'm going to take refusal to pass on the focus as more lack of cooperation on your part (especially given how adamant you were about wanting to control VasudeVa's focus earlier.) I do NOT want you focusing tonight. If I thought I could I'd absolutely be trying to block you tonight.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mina]

Mighty Orbots, perhaps I should admit that I was lazy and took my time sending in my PM asking about roleblocks, so Faraday's was sent first. Still, I think the last vote count was before Faraday sent in his item request.

Fate, are you still waiting on Beholder to tell you what your night actions were?

I'm a little worried about Faraday's relative willingness to give up his item and be lynched. That means he's probably not the cult leader. And if passing items causes infection, I am going to be pissed off. I really don't want to join the zombie hordes, damn it!

ooba, what exactly is the benefit of day-vigging Tar when we can block him AND every other potential recruit?

Also, even if he's lying through his teeth to us about not playing toward his win condition...don't you think that he wouldn't have come forward and offered his head on a platter if the cult couldn't gain from it? If you're so sure that Tar is a liar, then if anything, you should

support

the roleblock plan.

Oh, and one more thing.

We have the last Mafia under control. There hasn't been a single successful Mafia nightkill since SpyreX.

WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT A NIGHTKILL IF YOU'RE TOWN?

Seriously. You're a prime cult suspect now. Getting yourself killed will just help us narrow the suspect pool if you're town. You should be happy to take a bullet for someone like Mighty Orbots.

Also, if you focus someone, then doesn't that just mean your target is recruited instead of you?

Something else. Aren't you a self-redirector? And yet, every morning, you make a useless comment like "Great, I wasn't nightkilled tonight!" It just comes across as fake, and not at all what you should be thinking if you're town.

By the way, I haven't forgotten that on Day One, you tried to divert the lynch from ortolan first to me, then to CMAR. (Mind you, I'm still confused by ortolan's slot and why Katy claimed a fake role result if she's a Mafia rolecop and ortolan started the game as cult.)

I really wish we hadn't stripped dramonic of his limbo ability and lynched him. Because his ability would have been useful on ooba.

That said...I have an idea that I'm going to share it with MO in the QT tonight.

[Iecerint]

If there really are zombie hordes, I would love to join them. But I am skeptical.

[Mina]

ooba, if you're town, then I have

1) Don't focus tonight.

2) Claim exactly whom you focused last night.

3) If you insist on being antitown and stubborn and focusing even though you shouldn't have any motivation to do so unless you're scum, then claim your target in the thread beforehand. The town should have a right to veto your choice.

If you do not follow these three rules, then I can promise you that I will fight to get you lynched tomorrow. Because your behaviour makes no sense from town.

There is no reason whatsoever for you to be coy about your target. No one, town or scum, is going to target you tonight. The cult or Mafia could just target the player you focused directly if they really wanted to get rid of him/her. Keeping your target hidden is useless when the scum already know you're a self-redirector.

[totallynotmafia]

Geez, some people just have no respect for other people's property. I DISTINCTLY remember my item having an oversoul ability before I lent it out; so ooba, Nikanor: care to explain why it is now crossed out?!?!? I was so looking forward to jailkeeping somebody tonight too. Bastards. You absolute bastards. This is why we can't have nice things.

Anyway, yeah, anyone else have their oversoul ability locked out?

DRUNK @ 10:20? lol

Your point being?

THAT I WASN'T FUCKING DRUNK. ARE YOU DENSE?

I think you missed the point of my joke...or maybe you didn't...

[Mighty Orbots]

@totallynotmafia, when I received Parama's item it did have the oversoul ability crossed out (because it was locked at the time.) I don't know of anything which takes away item's abilities. I guess I'd check with Beholder to make sure that it's not a mistake in the PM before worrying about it too much.

It is good to hear that you've received the item though.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Parama]

You can't use my oversoul ability. Only I can use it.

[Mighty Orbots]

@Parama, yes, I realize that. I'm letting totallynotmafia know that there's a reasonable chance the the changes he's seeing in his item now are a mod error rather than actual changes. If the item transfer role PM was copied from the one that was sent to either ooba or Nikanor then the strike through could simply have been left in unintentionally.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[ooba]

It seems double standards for you to find Vas's play ok but my own focus using condemnable.

I am to cult what a bulletproof-role is to mafia. As an unrecruitable, I am going to
- Use my focus
- Not claim my target before the particular day\night cycle is over

And yet, every morning, you make a useless comment like "Great, I wasn't nightkilled tonight!" It just comes across as fake, and not at all what you should be thinking if you're town.

I get nightkilled often. I was thinking I was a good target on N4 since I had got DS lynched and that was the only night in which I could be killed .. Happy I survived ..

The cult or Mafia could just target the player you focused directly if they really wanted to get rid of him/her. Keeping your target hidden is useless when the scum already know you're a self-redirector.

Not if my target is cult\scum - then they'd just end up killing themselves or wasting a cult recruit chance.

[Mina]

Well, the good news is that I got Faraday's item.

The bad news is that apparently, Mighty Orbots was right.

All

of my roleblock names apparently have to be correct for any of them to work. (Odd. I don't think that was implied in my PM. I never would've figured that out on my own.) Of course, I can use only one or two of them at a time if I want to be 100% sure of the names. But all of a sudden, my role is a lot less broken.

Hmm. I need to think if there's a way to take advantage of this. Say, I roleblock Parama AND one-two other players with their role names preceded by "zombie." If Parama gets no result on his track...zombie positively identified. We could also do the opposite: use their claimed names, and if Parama ISN'T blocked, we know there's a zombie within that group.

I'll admit that Faraday giving up his item scares me. He'd have nothing to lose as cult by dying with it. By the way, in the QT on N4, he suggested I try dayvigging Xite in the QT early on N4 (before the rolecop idea) to test her name. I dunno. Could that be distancing? There's definitely something funny about Faraday and his lack of powers, and he seems to have gone off the deep end today...but he had come across as though he was genuinely trying to find the scum in the QT. That said, he never reacted to me pointing out the contradictions between his and Fate's claims.

On the other hand, Fate's reaction doesn't seem at all calculated. He might be an amazing actor, but I don't think scum's first reaction would be, "OMG, I think you're right, and Faraday is a liar!" Even Fate doesn't seem crazy enough to put himself in a 1 v. 1 when he was nowhere near being lynched just for WIFOM. And his mix-up with his actions seems a bit too scattershot to be planned.

Fate, I'll be very interested in hearing what Beholder says your night actions are for the whole
game. If Beholder tells you, "Whoops, I messed up," or "You focused chronopie on N1 and tracking only shows your N1 target on N2 because that's when your power takes effect, then it's Faraday's last chance for respite.

Actually, ask Kinetic that, too. Would someone tracking you on N2 see your N1 or N2 target?

[Mighty Orbots]

@ooba, it seems a double standard to say that your use of focus is OK but that VasudeVa's is condemnable. If you do insist on focusing tonight you very much raise my chances of being willing to lynch you tomorrow. We'll have to see what the situation looks like but right now you're up there on my list of potential cult leaders. You've even got a better flavor fit than almost anyone else in the game for it with your role though it's primarily your behavior today that's bothersome and at this point having you redirect any roleblocks or investigations is not acceptable.

@Mina, OK, let me think on that overnight as see what seems like the best plan.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh