Mini 1026 - Ohne Mafia (Game Over!)

[foilist13]

Double post. The above was written before archaebob's post

[archaebob]

I want to know why archaebob voted him initially.

Do a votecount and you'll see.

[foilist13]

D1 hasn't officially started yet and we are seeing non random competing wagons.

I'll do that in a sec archaebob

[Hrezs]

archae-my vote is on boberz. I don't need to vote for someone just because I suspect them.

[Zhero]

Vote Count 1

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

boberz (5): Tasky, foilist13, Hrezs, NicolBolas, Furcolow
Furcolow (1): archaebob

Not Voting: a2rudeboy, boberz, caelum, FEMM the Attorney, moose200x, Wraith

[Furcolow]

@ Furcolow -

Voting me based upon what? I haven't done anything wrong this game whatsoever that has negatively impacted anything, and me putting FoS onto him a couple of pages ago is what lead to this vote in the first place in my eyes, so I don't see where you're going with this archaebob

Putting someone up to L-1 and asking for a claim on page 3 is horrendously bad for town. D1 needs to be at least 10-12 pages before a lynch will be acceptable. And that is a bare, I mean

bare

minimum. Upwards of 20 pages is more likely, and probably closer to optimal. The main priority D1 is gathering information; we want to have lots of conversation about as many players as possible before going to night so that we are best equipped to catch the scum later in the game.

and I really don't appreciate your language.

How old are you?

I don't know if boberz is scum, but if he doesn't come around to defend himself I wouldn't really mind someone hammering him. I really dislike not having a deadline in general, as I'm used to 48 hour days believe it or not.

There is a deadline. It is in two weeks.

Have you ever played mafia on this site before?

You say day 1 is about gathering information. I don't care if someone is lynched on page 2 or page 50, if someone is at L-2 or L-1 I am going to ask them to claim. Your saying that it is about information yet pushing against me for trying to get information is pure hypocrisy.

[boberz]

Ok archebob my response to your lengthy attack, but first I would like to request exactly why the defensiveness everyone seems to have seen in me is scummy. Wander into any day1 there is a mislynched townie who overreacted/got nervous. it is not a scumtell. but I honestly didnt feel nervous/particularly pressured so the response for this situation follows:

1/ Voting under a short quote in the manner of moose indicated to me an 'it is so obvious!' mentality. So the shortness of the vote and lack of explanation actually makes it more aggressive than if it had been a lengthy accusation such as the one you present. Therefore my reaction was somewhat more justified than you would have everyone believe, although very strong (perhaps excessively so) I accept.

Jitteriness indicative of scum is just simply wrong.

2/ My tone of desperation was non existent. It is very bad day 1 play to assume that your attacker may have a scum mindset. It is always wiser imo to examine your own play first.

Here I presume the attack (because there was no case presented) and defend it. A real scumtell /sarcasm. Alibi or just true reasoning???

The 'so try again moose' was merely trying to provoke a proper case. Create movement early in day1.

3/ My defence is WIFOM, but it was wifom to try and emphasise how the presumed attack line was going down the road of wifom. I was by no means trynig to say that scum could never say it, merely presenting the 'scum wouldnt say it because...' half of the wifom as opposed to the 'boberz must be scum because...' half (which I had outlined in the unbolded part of your quote). So it was merely discrediting the attack rather than suggesting it was evidence to my defence.

Asking players how they intend to scumhunt discourages them from random voting, or joking about and makes them actually do it. Making town look town is as important as finding scum looking scummy. I appreciate that I am obviously not leading by example but it is still true.

It does not help scum because they can all read the wiki/read the attacks as they come, they get the info anyway. Town are the people who do not use scumhunting effectively. It is not merely to remind people how to hunt scum, but actually focussing their mind on doing it. Also something to test scum by, in RQS they too have to answer the questions.

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On a seperate note, atleast we avoided RVS

But seriously it is always my aim as both allignments to create loads of info at the start of the game, by attacking the most active players on pretty much nothing, by finding someone scummy and not letting it drop even when they have defended adequately. I appreciate self meta is not to be trusted, so go look for yourself. search boberz pick any game you want where I was in from the beginning and I will have created stuff like this, but I would argue that in many instances it has been helpful in the long term.

Speaking of how it is helpful to find scum VOTE: Nichol Bolas the accusation archaebob made was similar to yours I defended it adequately, suddenly it has you convinced you to be on an already large bandwagon.

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Sorry for not getting this out last night but my Wifi turns off at 11 because the router is next to Dad's head when he sleeps and he thinks it is bad for him (believe it or not). I have seen another 2 pages, so I am going to post about it now. I am not claiming this early, and anyone who hammers without even looking at another player is poor.

[boberz]

Go read furs meta before anyone thinks it is him based on this.

[boberz]

NB - You did flip flop, everyone saw it. Meanwhile I am interested in your attitude trying to keep everyone on board. You vote, because abob told you to. You said you wanted to hear my response presumably to keep me happy. You did the same the first time you questioned me as well. Take a stance!
So am I right in saying that in your eyes the question was not scummy.


Femm - The questions are not helpful to scum (covered in previous post). If you have a secret scumhunting tactic that scum dont already know then just keep it a secret, we wouldnt know. But for the most part it did not help scum.
And I said I would answer them after everyone who was going to answer answered. That wasnt true at this point but might be now (I will have to check)
The last two questions are not helpful to scum what a ludicrous suggestion. If you are prepared to answer 3, then why not answer 4 and 5.

Town do panic in that situation. Go into any day 1 it is full of 'nervous' town alligned players mislynched. Moast fallicious tell ever. But I still do not think I was any more nervous than an average player in the situation.


Moose - http://www.wikilaw3k.org/forum/Law-Enfo ... 317847.htm look at the amount of yes answers. Most fallacious tell ever.

[moose200x]

What does "Most fallacious tell ever." mean? I feel dumb right now.

[archaebob]

@ Furcolow - You didn't answer my two questions.

And there's no hypocrisy. There's a difference between gathering information that helps town and asking for information that helps scum. The ONLY thing you are going to accomplish by asking for a claim this early is to out a PR. This is a terrible idea. How exactly does asking for a claim help town this early in the game? It certainly helps scum.

@ boberz -

Can you post a few links of town metas?

[archaebob]

What does "Most fallacious tell ever." mean? I feel dumb right now.

I'm surprised to see this coming from Mr. Democrat. After all, I've just naturally come to assume that liberals are smarter than the rest of us. Especially since all non-liberals are either rubes, hicks, or idiot religious peasants who do nothing but preach racism and warmongering way out in flyover country.

Btw, if you need to find out what the word "fallacious" means, I recommend dictionary.com LOL

[boberz]

I was suggesting that the tell is a bit of a fallacy (I think that is how you spell it btw I am not great at spelling) so I meant that it is a bit of a misconception, an idea that has fallen into popular usage without it being correct.

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Town metas, where I was in from the beginning.

Newbie871

Newbie928

Mafia in Mendo

Scum Meta

Newbie933

---

I replace into most of my games so I can get straight into a game rather than have stupid day 1s. But this has been a good one so far, so I dont mind.

[moose200x]

What does "Most fallacious tell ever." mean? I feel dumb right now.

I'm surprised to see this coming from Mr. Democrat. After all, I've just naturally come to assume that liberals are smarter than the rest of us. Especially since all non-liberals are either rubes, hicks, or idiot religious peasants who do nothing but preach racism and warmongering way out in flyover country.

Btw, if you need to find out what the word "fallacious" means, I recommend dictionary.com LOL

I am for gov giving back, high taxes on the rich and some social programs, i'm not really liberal, just agree with them on alot of issues.

i guess u prob into loltrickledown eh? how fail.

P.S. this was just a chime in message, no substance at all.

[foilist13]

Seriously, if this political talk keeps up I will drown you, DROWN YOU, in libertarian rhetoric. Stop it now. You have admitted ignorance if the issue and are continuing to post offensive messages with no grasp of what you're talking about. There are people here far more politically grounded than you.

[NicolBolas]

I will have a megapost later tonight. I have a lot to say. A lot to ask too.

[boberz]

Andy Burnham was so appropriate. Haha, he is a British politician who is trying ot become Labour leader, one of his supporters was sitting behind me at the time and I said that nobody outside our circles would have heard of him, and guess what nobody had

I am logged in now, so my answers to my own questions will follow.

[boberz]

confirm.

All answer please (My answers will follow)...

What is everyone's opinions on lurkers?

I dont know about everyone, but whilst I hate lurkers my view has softened recently I have begun to thought that so long as lurkers are adequately thought about it is sometimes best to chase those who are contributing more, I used to have anatural bias much firther against lurkers.

The reason for this question was I imagined (and have seen before) to get a load of people say they dont like lurkers find it scummy etc, then when they lurk we can call them out on it. Encourages good play and gives us a sharper stick to hit scum with.

Have you heard of Andy Burnham?

Of course I have, I wouldnt have asked the question otherwise. A politician in Britain but I did not really expect anyone to know him

The reason for this question was firstly to prove my mate wrong, but secondly put people a bit at ease (a trick I learned when I first saw RQS, making them think the questions were a bit more icebreakery

How do you plan to find scum?

Pressure Pressure Pressure, bandwagons, random scrutiny, lot's of accusations hard playing. Later in the game I like bandwagon/vote pattern examination. I am not big on gut feeling, it is wrong more than it is right.

The contravercial question!!! The reason for this has already been dissected at length. But it imo does serve as a net positive. It gives us something to hold scum to (if they dont do what they say they will we can find them, this is a lot harder for them to live up to in later days.) But it also encourages good play from town. Not only reminding them how to play as I was patronisingly misrepped as saying, but actually foccussing their mind to doing it rather than random votes, random bandwagonning from random votes (not bandwagonning the way I like it.)

How would you describe your playing style?

Unusual, I like doing new things and thinking about new tells. I have a few up my sleeve, some of which can be found in my previous games but others I do not plan to share atm. I do not like 'stock tells' because more often than not they are absolute cobblers. I like ether's list of tells which is hanging around the archives somewhere.

Interesting to see how people view their own meta if you end up looking at their meta. It also helps us understand playersmore, if they are 'survivalist' in nature or if they are naturally lurky in the first day etc etc. Stops people falling in to traps.

How much mafia have you played?

Including replacement games that don't always last long, I have done about 10, all on this site. Thousands of f2f games. I am also with a friend trying to work out a skype mafia thing, but it is quite hard to work out the best way to do it.

The point of this question is pretty self explanatory. The amount of mafia you have played deeply effects what you think, do and say. Also a rough guide as to ability

[boberz]

And tbh I did not pick up from much from the answers, the reason being because the first couple of answers so greatly affected so many of the other answers, to a point where many did not want to contribute some of whom may have done otherwise. Also because the questions were criticised so heavilly tany reads that emerge would have shaky foundations so maybe some inconsistency will occur later but currently we have a few people who dont like lurking. A few others who have played mafia a fair bit before. And a lot who dont know who andy burnham is. Epic Fail of RQS!

[Wraith]

Okay, let's not bring political talk in here, please. I get enough shit from both sides everywhere.

Personally, I'm rather suspicious of archaebob at the moment, but this is only after a skim-through. I'll do a more detailed read later. Archaebob can either be an overly zealous scumhunter or scum trying to push an early lynch. Considering how much his attitude is flip-flopping it's hard to tell.

[Hrezs]

boberz, your WIFOM defense is retarded. "Town sometimes does this, it can't possibly be a tell!" Is a completely false argument. Not to mention you went from "I'm not being defensive" to "Guys, my defensiveness is a nulltell"
You also laid down a scummy vote, but I'm willing to let that half slide

[FEMM the Attorney]

I think boberz has put up a good defense now... I can't say my suspicion is totally dropped, but it's not as high as it was.
Also, the reason I hadn't voted yet was because I wanted to vote boberz, but I didn't want him at L-1. I didn't have other suspicions strong enough at that time. Now I think Nicol and Furclow are my next top picks.
And please stop with the political fluff, kthx.

Vote: NicolBolas

I know you defended the flip-flopping opinion of boberz, but it still doesn't sit well with me.

[NicolBolas]

I'm still working on my post, but FEMM- what do you mean? I defended nobody.

[FEMM the Attorney]

No, you're opinion of boberz. We asked why you flip-flopped and you defended it.
Sorry if it was worded strange.

[boberz]

boberz, your WIFOM defense is retarded. "Town sometimes does this, it can't possibly be a tell!" Is a completely false argument. Not to mention you went from "I'm not being defensive" to "Guys, my defensiveness is a nulltell"
You also laid down a scummy vote, but I'm willing to let that half slide

I sense your wires are crossed, unless you are making new accusations and my wires are crossed. either way:

The 'town do this a lot' is as much wifom as saying 'scum do this sometimes' which is what was being said. The defence was only as wifomy as the attack (that small part of the attack). The idea of nerves and defensiveness is not a scumtell, somebody actually explain, or give evidence or stats as to why it is. Please do not just accept it as truth because it is not. The most extreme example to prove me wrong (drugs and the police) on this matter was rebutted with a load of people saying they do get nervous in such a situation.

The second half of your accusation is more what I was expecting, unfortuantly I was going a bit theory trigger happy on it. I was not, and have always maintained that I was not nervous (beyond the extent that most would be). As for defensive I fully accept I was defensive and will not apologise for it if defensiveness is now scummy I may just go and jump out of my window or something. However I did at length discuss whether nerves makes somebody scummy, concluding it doesnt. I did not mean this to encompass me particularly (other than for the small amount of pressure i was feeling at the time, I maintain no more than to be expected).

Why was my vote scummy, he massively flip flopped. Please dont tell me it was OMGUS, because he hadnt even presented a case (also scummy btw NB)