Mafia 1013 - Prozacs Basic Theme - Game has ENDED

[Fishythefish]

At this stage, it's clear who we are lynching. Raivann is certainly likely enough to be scum that his lynch is better than none.

unvote, vote: Raivann

[Anon]

Player by player analysis incoming part 2 now with vote sausage included because DEADLINE is in two freaking days:

llamaeatataco: you see my problem started with the camellid eating mexican food was (is) his entrance to the game defending BB and attacking people for attacking him. This has also been discussed by centuries now, see my other posts for reference. All the posterior debate is really stupid thx to llama's refusal of making a solid argument. In my experience, Ive definitely see more scumbags defending people for nulltells to gain town credit, dont annoy a very vocal player, which was basically the premise of my llamehate. He spitting I dont make sense using irony and tell me to STFU and RTFT as a wayout really didnt help him. Now that I reread him and I see him voting Jack for being a "scummy dick" and mallow for "being lame", two of my town reads, I think this guy is very likely to flip scumbag.

mallowgeno: Town VI read. Overall one liner but reluctance to join wagons, showing no malice in his play. Reaction to Jack cop claim was townish. Latest posting have been less reliable but still nothing scummy. Gets town points for being attacked with weak accusations = easy target. When he comes back I want him to explain his stances on iso 11.

Mitsuru Kirijo: Okay, I dont remember much from Mitsuru. Also a one paragraph player but quite active, 3 pages. Voting for mallow for making no sense only after Jack votes him gives her one scum point. His catches on llama jokey style hypocrisy and omgus reads are good, though. However, there is something that doesnt fit:

Raivann has been quite aggressive and unhelpful. He seems to want to lead the town but in the posts he makes, he doesn't contribute much. He seems to have slipped under the radar with short posts and gotten away with no contribution, (...insert case for igniting llama lynch here...) Then he begins to make short, uncontributive posts? Why are you telling us who's being lynched when you aren't even making a case on your top suspect?

This post was after Mitsuru realized her mallow lynch wasnt going anywhere and was likely hunting for other suspects. Then, why didnt you vote Raivann in this post, Mitsuru? Also what in the thread made you go from that to this:

As do I. Raivann reads as extremely townie to me. Llama, Mallow, and possibly Budja are the scum team for me.

Ill leave neutrals (Raivann, Coug and xvart) for tomorrow. We really need to get a consensus because deadline is in two days. I wont fight a Raivann lynch but Id raelly like Mitsuru to answer before day is over. If we can make a barbacue with llama then that would make me very happy.

[Porochaz]

Raivann - 6 - Flameaxe, Llama, Budja, Blackberry, Strangercoug, Fishythefish
Llama - 1 - Raivann
Jack - 1 - Mallowgeno
Blackberry - 1 - xvart
Flameaxe - 1 - Anon
mallow - 1 - mitsuru
Budja - 1 - Jack

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline August the 17th

[llamaeatataco]

...Never mind, Anon should be our d2 lynch.

His catches on llama jokey style hypocrisy and omgus reads are good, though.

Here is the post where Mitsuru supposedly 'catches' my 'hypocrisy:'

:I find it hard to believe that you really don't think I read your post at all... Especially when I quoted it to you. You = Liar. Liars = scum. Therefore, you = scum.

Oh wait, that was someone else who said that, so it doesn't have that ironic effect.


Jokey style =/= trying to be liked by town. Jokey style = personality. End of story.

This is the post that stands out to me as scummy, when compared with this:

but people are so much more fun when they're slightly irritated...

and this:

Because I'm worried that I might actually be insane. Did you know that that eliminates a whole slew of career opportunities?

He claims a jokey style makes you seem like you're trying to be liked by town, which in turn makes you scummy. Well then, those above two quotes make him scummy.

Also, why do you think Mallow is town?

Mitsuru misread my 'does not equal' sign. There was no hypocrisy. If you actually read the damn thread, even the quotes in the post you are praising, even my next post where I explain this very clearly to Mitsuru, you would know that it was a misunderstanding.

Dammit, I keep thinking of Mitsuru as a he. And Coug as a she. If I mess up y'all's pronouns, it's not on purpose. Anyway, where was I?

She didn't even mention it in her summary of why she thinks I'm scum. Why? Because she's paying attention to the game at least.


...

That was just the most important thing that jumped out at me, now for deconstruction from the top down:

llamaeatataco: you see my problem started with the camellid eating mexican food was (is) his entrance to the game defending BB and attacking people for attacking him. This has also been discussed by centuries now, see my other posts for reference. All the posterior debate is really stupid thx to llama's refusal of making a solid argument. In my experience, Ive definitely see more scumbags defending people for nulltells to gain town credit, dont annoy a very vocal player, which was basically the premise of my llamehate. He spitting I dont make sense using irony and tell me to STFU and RTFT as a wayout really didnt help him. Now that I reread him and I see him voting Jack for being a "scummy dick" and mallow for "being lame", two of my town reads, I think this guy is very likely to flip scumbag.

?!?!? Let's see... First, please spend less time trying to be witty and more time trying to be intelligible. This is very hard to read.
1. If you have a problem with a person attacking someone when they attack someone else in a scummy manner, you're doing something very wrong.
2. How have I refused to make a solid argument? If anyone, it's you/Raivann doing this. I do believe that most of the time I've been pretty good about quoting and then explaining exactly why the quoted selection is scummy. I might be a little unclear, but at least I try. This is specious rhetoric. (side not: The word 'specious' is actually really fun to use/say/type) If you mean my lack of a pbpa on you/Raivann then I'd be happy to make one on you. FA's on Raivann covered everything I saw and then some, so I don't see a point in making a second, inferior one. One on you can certainly be arranged, if that is indeed what you want. Maybe you just want a summary post? I can do that too, but it won't help you any. It'll just make you look worse...
3. Wut? So as town, I should sit by and watch scum/townies rip apart a fellow townie over something stupid? I sure as hell hope you're not town, because if so, we're in trouble.
4. Wut x 9001? I have no idea what you are trying to say here. This is an offense to English as a language.

dont annoy a very vocal player, which was basically the premise of my llamehate. He spitting I dont make sense using irony and tell me to STFU and RTFT as a wayout really didnt help him.

please Re-type this section, I'll try and answer what I can figure out:

'Scum don't annoy vocal players, that's why I attacked llama [howeverthehellwedostrikeoutshere]for shitty reason[/strikeout].' Way to slip 'hey look at me, I'm town for doing this' and 'My case sucked because I only did it to look town' in to your analysis of another player.

'He spitting I dont make sense using irony' ?!? Another llama joke (these would actually be humorous if I could understand the rest of your post) and then saying that you either don't understand or don't use irony. I don't understand the point your trying to make here either way.

" tell me to STFU and RTFT as a wayout really didnt help him." Ah, acronyms. Pity I could sort of decode your message anyway, they would have helped more elsewhere. I told you to shut up and go read the thread in this post:

No, my read is based on just that. Your defense of BB is unfounded and its ilogical coming from a townie entity that early in the game. You even decide to attack another player based on his accusations against BB. Yet some posts later you agree that the attacks can make sense. Flifflop FTL.

*facepalm*

OK, here's what I want you to do:

1. stfu
2. rtft
3. come back and talk to me when you have done that.


/rage



Seriously though...

The majority of my reads are based on gut, meta, and town/scum tells. Llama is scum for lame attempt to look town by chainsawing BB and then accepting that his accusations were unfounded.

[hypocrisy]strawman.[/hypocrisy] Really. I'm not explaining it again, screw that crap. I'm gonna go play Halo while you read my last post and try to figure it out, because I'm lazy.

Now, you're obviously trying to make a point about this post... Maybe it was that telling other players to shut up is bad, like Coug already said? Or are you trying to say that I was using that instead of responding to your points? Well, if you look at my post right before that (ISO 13) you can see that I already responded to your points

before you even said them.

Isn't that creepy? I'll tell you all the truth: I'm psychic! It's not just that you brought up points that had already been refuted, or that you were too lazy to read through the big post where said refutation happened. I'm psychic, like legit. [/sarcasm] So how was my exasperation with you scummy?

Now that I reread him and I see him voting Jack for being a "scummy dick" and mallow for "being lame", two of my town reads, I think this guy is very likely to flip scumbag.

1. Oh yeah, because voting people for being scummy is a scum move now.
2. Mallow was being lame. Was he a town read for you at that point? He wasn't for me.

Basically, you're grasping at straws in trying to come up with reasons for me to be scum. Now you're saying I'm scum for suspecting people that you have on your 'town list.'

mallowgeno: Town VI read. Overall one liner but reluctance to join wagons, showing no malice in his play. Reaction to Jack cop claim was townish. Latest posting have been less reliable but still nothing scummy. Gets town points for being attacked with weak accusations = easy target. When he comes back I want him to explain his stances on iso 11.

Meh. Nothing that hasn't been said before/is extremely obvious, but nothing wrong either.

His catches on llama jokey style hypocrisy and omgus reads are good, though.

I missed the OMGUS reads part. This has already been explained with Meta evidence. She also pointed out your OMGUS reads, as I recall. Are you saying that that was also town, and that you are scum? Or does this tell only apply to people you want to lynch?

As for the bit on Mitsuru: Yeah pretty much. Couple this with the reluctance to explain her reads, and the pathetic explanations that follow... So many people to lynch, so little time.

Anyway, Mitsuru, it'd be really cool if you came back, explained the discrepancy and then hammered Raivann. Kthx.

[llamaeatataco]

dammit, I messed up the quotes. Should have put "I" instead of "Me."

[StrangerCoug]

...Never mind, Anon should be our d2 lynch.

Why are you lining up lynches?

Dammit, I keep thinking of Mitsuru as a he. And Coug as a she. If I mess up y'all's pronouns, it's not on purpose.

Mitsuru's gender is actually easy to keep straight if you've played Persona 3 before Mine may be the hard one to remember due to the sex slang usage I've hinted at before. (What I think also confuses some people is that I used to draw my fursona with long hair.)

[Flameaxe]

Ps:

PROZAC:

I'm moving in the next couple of weeks to a new apartment near school. While I don't plan on moving up full time until the internet and cable is set up, obviously if issues arise I may not have access beyond my phone, which is sketchy at best. Putting it in thread so you players know too.

PPS: A Budja prod might be in order. It's been a while (Thursday to be exact for his last post).

So, I moved in a day early, which puts me out of internet for the evening. Any pressing comments/concerns, write flameaxe in big letters and ill be sure to comment from my phone tonight.

[Anon]

There was no hypocrisy.

You are missing the core of the accusation. You said that there was some truth in that scum do worry about appearances. However you think/thought BB is town for having this playstyle. Mitsuru thought you had this jokey/ironic playstyle too. So you saying that this isnt scummy when you said there was some truth on this, yeah, thats pretty much hypocrisy in my book.

3. Wut? So as town, I should sit by and watch scum/townies rip apart a fellow townie over something stupid? I sure as hell hope you're not town, because if so, we're in trouble.

I really missed the part where BB became confirmed town. How do you know BB is a fellow townie?

1. Oh yeah, because voting people for being scummy is a scum move now.
2. Mallow was being lame. Was he a town read for you at that point? He wasn't for me.

What was so scummy dick on Jack and what was scummy lame on Mallow?

Basically, you're grasping at straws in trying to come up with reasons for me to be scum. Now you're saying I'm scum for suspecting people that you have on your 'town list.'

Believe it or not, this is a very good scumtell in my book. People that have weak reasons to suspect people I think are town are usually scum. Simple logic here.

I missed the OMGUS reads part. This has already been explained with Meta evidence. She also pointed out your OMGUS reads, as I recall. Are you saying that that was also town, and that you are scum? Or does this tell only apply to people you want to lynch?

When did she also pointed my OMGUS?

[xvart]

A) I had no idea the wiki said thing, it was something I thought of myself that scum are probably more likely to use it to confuse town

B) Budja was not asking someone about WIFOM. He was saying to someone that, regarding me, "speculating on whether it is personality" is WIFOM. Like I said, using it in that context suggests he is trying to put doubt that it is a personaltiy thing. Which is something I would consider scum to do.

C) All votes are used for the purpose of examining the reaction of the person you are voting, even if it is a secondary motive. So I consider all my vote reaction votes. Also, you completely undermine my calling those specific votes reaction votes by saying "it's not a reaction vote because you didn't say so" and then saying "it's not a reaction vote because you stated it was and thus defeated the purpose." And for the record, my opinion is stating you are doing something (such as telling someone you are strongly looking at how they react to something) only invokes intimidation into those that are scum and invokes more honesty from those that are town and is not at all a bad thing.

D) I already explained why I unvoted Anon - I found Raivaan more attractive.

** Now I'll reread about Anon to tell you why I thought he was a good vote.

B) Budja already counterclaimed your assertion, so I don't need to.
C) Telling someone you are looking for reactions undermines the reaction you are trying to get. Scum could easily work around and figure out what kind of reaction you might consider scummy just by knowing that it is reaction fishing.
D) How can you find someone more attractive for voting when you don't even know why you don't remember why you were voting in the first place? Although, if it was a worthless vote with nothing behind it I can see any other case being attractive, but you must have picked Anon for some legitimate purpose, or you would have simply unvoted Jack for finally answering your question.

...Never mind, Anon should be our d2 lynch.

Why D2? Why not today?

I don't like it much, but I think he's acted more town throughout. He might not be posting huge text walls, but I have a more scummy read on Blackberry. Despite his explanations, his vote hopping is scummy. However, I realize a BB lynch probably won't happen today, so I'll be keeping a close eye on he and Mallow.

You don't vote BB because that lynch won't happen today, but you leave your vote on Mallow? How is that lynch ever going to happen today? At least BB would have two votes compared to your one vote on Mallow. Your vote would be better served on BB.

At this stage, it's clear who we are lynching. Raivann is certainly likely enough to be scum that his lynch is better than none.

unvote, vote: Raivann

Not necessarily. We can still get a lynch going on BB. If Mitsuru switches over that's three of us, vs. the 5 on Raivaan, then if a couple more of the one shot wonder votes make a decision we have a competitive wagon here.

xvart.

[Raivann]

unvote, Vote: Blackberry

[xvart]

And if Raivaan comes in with a claim that is believable/confirmable then we have a secondary wagon already put together. In fact, Raivaan, why did you not claim? You are L-1.

xvart.

[Raivann]

I claimed awhile back. I'm VT.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

Unvote. Vote Blackberry

I can agree with this case, and I'm not buying his cases. However, I REALLY want Mallow lynched tomorrow.

The reason I was sticking to my guns on Mallow then saying I won't vote BB because it isn't going anywhere is because I really want mallow lynched. Call it tunnelling, but I have a serious gut read on Mallow as scum. Hypocrisy, yes, but I don't think Mallow is good for town this game.

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

Also.

V/LA with limiting posting this week.

[Fishythefish]

I've just noticed that we can get a lynch at deadline with only 4 votes (half of full lynch), so there is no urgency to hammer. This means that it's sensible to vote for either Raivann or BB at this stage.

I think I'm going to

unvote, vote: Blackberry

I don't have a scumread on Raivann any more. I honestly don't have the time or the energy to properly assess BB tonight (I haven't been following the case on him as closely as I should have), but a skim of xvart and BB makes me feel relatively happy with this vote. It's obviously not ideal to be casting a fairly uninformed vote this near deadline, but I've read enough that I think he's more likely to flip scum than Raivann.

[Fishythefish]

If my maths is right, Raivann now has 5 votes to BBs 4. At deadline, 4 votes are needed to lynch; if it's a tie above 4 whoever got there first will be lynched.

[Budja]

Not switching.
Lynching the claimed VT is a smarter move.
Also BB is town.

[llamaeatataco]

I think I'm going to
unvote, vote: Blackberry

I don't have a scumread on Raivann any more.

wtf? You just said that you found Raivann to be highly scummy at the top of the page... Wasn't it you saying you weren't feeling the Raivann scum thing just last page? I might be wrong, but you seem a little flip-floppy.

Why are you lining up lynches?

Well, Raivann has my top spot for being scum, and he's at least a viable lynch for today. Tomorrow my first action is probably going to be to vote Anon. Why? He's my next top suspect after Raivann. Is there a problem with letting him know that? I thought today's lynch was a done deal. However, with all the Fishy-Flopping...

Mitsuru's gender is actually easy to keep straight if you've played Persona 3 before

I knew my lack of jrpg experience would screw me eventually.

You are missing the core of the accusation. You said that there was some truth in that scum do worry about appearances. However you think/thought BB is town for having this playstyle. Mitsuru thought you had this jokey/ironic playstyle too. So you saying that this isnt scummy when you said there was some truth on this, yeah, thats pretty much hypocrisy in my book.

Two main issues here:

1: Yes, a person as scum tends to worry more about appearances than the same person as town. However, because some people are more worried about appearances as a personality thing, some people think more about appearances as town than others do as scum. It's like your alignment is a modifier for a base number. The base number is how self conscious you are in general. (Yes I just compared life to an rpg. I am a nerd.) I see BB as one of those people who has a high base.

2. I never accepted, in in manner at all that being a joker means you are worried about appearances (Unless I was drunk...). I have said this at least 3 times that I can think of specifically, and I probably said it a great deal more than that. You are either making things up, or you are just too lazy to read the thread. If you read my 'big post' that I have already accused you of-

holy crap. Fishy, I know how you feel, and I apologize.

-not reading before, then-

And yeah, not reading that post was kind of a dick move on my part. I'll try not to in the future

-you would know that your point is completely stupid.

I really missed the part where BB became confirmed town. How do you know BB is a fellow townie?

Irrelevant. Town has a duty to point out flawed arguments no matter who is getting attacked. Stop the red herrings please.

What was so scummy dick on Jack and what was scummy lame on Mallow?

Read the thread. It's in the posts where I vote them I believe. If not then I fail, and you need to look at the posts before.

Believe it or not, this is a very good scumtell in my book. People that have weak reasons to suspect people I think are town are usually scum. Simple logic here.

1. You are wrong.
2. They were not weak. You're killing yourself here. How do you know they were weak if you don't know what the reasons were? (pwned, fine sir!)

When did she also pointed my OMGUS?

My bad. She was talking about Mallow, and it coincided with you calling FA scum and I confused you with Raivann and bad reading was bad.

I will post again in a couple of hours. Must leave now. Raivann must die. Fishy needs to explain his flipflipping.

[Blackberry]

B) Budja already counterclaimed your assertion, so I don't need to.

Budja's statement proves me more correct over you.

C) Telling someone you are looking for reactions undermines the reaction you are trying to get. Scum could easily work around and figure out what kind of reaction you might consider scummy just by knowing that it is reaction fishing.

Disagree. It only put more pressure on scum to try harder. What I look for is faking - so that is something rather difficult to "figure out."

And if Raivaan comes in with a claim that is believable/confirmable then we have a secondary wagon already put together. In fact, Raivaan, why did you not claim? You are L-1.

xvart.

This says three things:

A) xvart hasn't read Raivaan's posts at all to try to get a read on him. Why wouldn't he be looking at the person that's getting the most votes? Unless you are his partner.
B) This suggests you aren't reading MY posts either, as I have mentioned in one of my posts that Raivaan has claimed Vanilla Townie. If you're suspscious of someone, I'd think you would read all their posts and not just the ones you can use to make a case agains't.
C) Once again, this looks like giving directions and hoping Raivaan will claim a PR to get pressure off his back. If Raivaan comes up scum: huge scum points for xvart.

------

Also, Fishy and mitsu - why are you trying to lynch someone at the last minute over someone that has claimed VT and who isn't even legitamitly scumhunting (Raivaan has only made short posts attacking whoever has posted recently)? Also, Fishy, why do you not think Raivaan is scum anymore?

[llamaeatataco]

Fishy, 475 and 589. What gives?

[llamaeatataco]

EBWOP: 489. This thread has lots of time travel.

[Raivann]

Not switching.
Lynching the claimed VT is a smarter move.
Also BB is town.

BB is scum. So is llama.

[llamaeatataco]

Glad to see you're putting effort into this game. TBH, it was pretty obvious you switched onto BB to save your own sorry ass.

[Raivann]

Yes, I would like to not get lynched and BB is scum too.

[StrangerCoug]

I like the Raivann wagon a lot better than the Blackberry wagon. I mean, come on. Look at #484. Raivann wants the pressure on him to go away, so he's trying for the other viable lynch with very little to support it.