Ladies Night -- Game Over

[Sucrose]

/confirming!

[Sucrose]

The rest of you

, I don't care about so much. But I am willing to take an interest in you now. Tell me about your playstyle, your in-game experiences and what you offer the town by being alive.

Vote: Haylen

You don't care? Well that's mean of you. Anyway, honest assessment: I tend to be a pretty obvtown townie when I don't lurk. I'm often NK-bait, regardless of my role. I've got a 50/50 average for scum and slightly better for town. I'm pretty happy about winning as an SK in Mini 930, but it was mostly due to dumb luck. I like to think I'm pretty good at finding scum based on gut feeling.

VOTE: Hoopla, for having an eternal birthday

[Sucrose]

I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but I thought the whole discussion on Haylen getting her town win percentages wrong and if she did or did not get offended was pointless. Scum aren't dumb enough to make up lies about things like winning percentages. If anything, scum are going to be more careful than usual about not giving out wrong information that someone could call them on.

[Sucrose]

Ah, all these anime avatars are going to drive me crazy.

Right now, Paws's actions are a big load of null tell. If she was outright refusing to give information, it would be different, but right now it's just mildly anti-town, not scummy.I don't think this is a good wagon.

I'm leaning town on Haylen, her playstyle seems exactly the same as the last time I played with her. Though if her scum-win percentages really are 70%+ I may end up looking like a big idiot here. I'm still going with my gut.

I've got a hunch.

Unvote, Vote: Uncertain Kitten.

Lots of spread out suspicions, and she looks like she could be the sort of calculated, experienced scum who knows not to do anything to draw extraneous suspicion. I'm certain there's scum lurking somewhere in Uncertain Kitten, Snow Bunny, and Hoopla.

[Sucrose]

...wait. rereading you're post I stand accused of...not being suspicious.

That...

What?

Do you realize how utterly stupid that sounds? Do you at all? Do...I'm about to cry at how ridiculous that is. You have offended my sense of critical thinking. What the hell?

It's more your spread out suspicions and your wishy-washy maybe I'll get on this wagon, maybe I won't attitude. Such as with the Paws wagon. First you say you don't particularly think Paws is scum, but you don't necessarily disagree with the wagon. Then you say Paws's posting "may have some strong scum intent if it maintains." I read this as staying away from the Paws wagon, but leaving an opening to jump in at a later point if the situation is right. Hence my read of you as possible scum playing it safe.

But sorry all, sometimes I'm not that good at articulating my thoughts.

Bout time someone had the guts to attack. A shame they have no case.

Why is it 'bout time I attacked? Do you expect to be attacked D1 every game?

I guessed there's likely scum between you, Snow Bunny, and Hoopla because you're three of the more articulate posters who don't strike me immediately as town-ish

[Sucrose]

Would you mind linking me?

Sure. Newbie 859. It was only my second game, so I was pretty n00bish. Haylen drew a little suspicion early on, if I remember right, then everyone thought she was town, then she got NK'd.

cepi is unimpressive. And trying desperately to seem that way.

@Sucrose: First paragraph. Lol no. What's interesting is I said I'd elaborate if asked.

I don't remember you doing this, and I don't see it.

Serious question: Do you have a history of getting mislynched early in games? If not, I have no clue why you're getting so damned angry in response to so little. Haylen I can understand, because she was being insulted personally, but I've never seen town (aside from certain

interesting

players) get so pissed off just from one or two people attacking or arguing with them. It's a scumtell. I don't care if that pisses you off either.

Why are those two the only two options? Please, don't play dumb with me. A voting doesn't mean a lynch, and they are not on the same level. When a wagon builds, more info can be drawn upon, both on the wagoners and on the wagonee. With that extra info, a better, non-policy lynch can be reached. So, stop suggesting that a policy vote means a policy lynch. And, btw, just saying, it's only your opinion that policy lynching/vigging are great. I beg to differ.

Come on girls, more camn love. This reaction to my vote is interesting.

I like this post, and not just because I agree with the theory.

Paws: No, Paw's play has not been good, and I have no clue why anyone, town or scum, would think announcing that you're withholding a scum hunch would be a good idea. That said, how about waiting 'til we see the content she promises for tomorrow before bandwagoning?

[Sucrose]

@Sucrose: First, learn to read.

Second, I rarely get mislynched. I get a good wagon on me D1, I repel it because I'm pretty clearly not scum, and from that wagon we catch the scum.
I don't get pissed at cases, I get pissed at REALLY STUPID LOGIC.

You have engaged in the latter. I love how you're attempting to twist my words.

And now let's move to the scumtell portion. First of all, scumtells are a really stupid way to catch scum. All you end up doing is trying to quantify a series of things that end up implicating...one of the most active players because they've had the highest chance of doing these vague things. Scum INTENT is how you catch scum.

I don't think these two things are all that different, but okay. I'm going off gut feeling and stuff that sticks out to me, not checking things off a list of scumtells like you seem to think I'm doing.

How does it benefit Scum UK to have gotten pissed off at your incredibly stupid logic? [/quote]
Because scum have a strong tendency to react emotionally when attacked or argued with. They do this because they're afraid they're being found out. Townies usually don't care, because they doubt they're going to be mislynched. Of course, this varies a HUGE amount from player to player, but it's a trend, and don't tell me otherwise. Maybe small things infuriate you regardless of your alignment, I don't know.

Paws, mind telling us who you had that scum read on before you leave? I don't care if it's not that good, it's better than nothing.

[Sucrose]

You're the one trying to use scumtells.

Anyway, one thread that ENTIRELY DESTROYS your fucktardery.

Anyway, which two things are you talking about?

So you link me to a thread where you argue that losing control of your emotions isn't a scumtell, because you do it all the time?
I'm going off of what I've personally seen. Such as in the same game with Haylen that I linked upthread. Cuetlachli was a player who flew into an absolute rage at the smallest of attacks on him. He called Haylen a "pompous bitch" D1, because she was the only player with a scum-read on him. And sure enough, he flipped scum.

If I see someone getting upset about nothing, I'm going to assume there's a reason for it. It's all about context. If there's no reason for it as town, I'm going to see it as scummy.

But, considering that one of the posters in the thread you linked said he was thinking of you when he posted about players who use AtE all the time, obviously, swearing at people at the drop of a hat is your meta. So, uh, thanks for that, I guess. And no, I am not the only person who thinks that AtE can be scummy.

The two things I was talking about are scum intent and scumtells. They're not that different. Nobody just checks off scumtells without thinking about why a person would make them.

[Sucrose]

I'm just going to ignore that last post there.

Ahem, I see no reason not to wait to listen to the replacement's spiel. The worst thing that could possibly happen is if the replacement is an incredibly charismatic scum who bowls over the town with their false towniess and causes that playerslot to never be lynched. I put the odds of that at about 1%. If the playerslot is scum, we can get more wagon analysis off of it, and see where the new player jumps. In the unlikely event that it's town, we can get some more reads off of it.

[Sucrose]

.....aand, I completely forgot we had bankable deadlines. Well, I still thinks it's a little more beneficial to hear what the replacement says, unless RedCoyote is having trouble finding someone.

[Sucrose]

Ninja'd.

Never mind then...

[Sucrose]

Sorry for the inactivity, all. Thoughts as I catch up:

DGB's point about the wagon going fast because it doesn't have scum on it makes no sense. If anything the opposite is true. While I admit staying off the wagon of a really bad player like Paws

would

be a safe place for scum to hide, I'm betting there's at least 2 of them on the wagon.

No...you insinuated that I'm a mason because you think I can day talk. And then you voted for me :/

What? I can't believe more people haven't commented on this.
Are you seriously suggesting that you don't remember that scum have daytalk, even though it's been pointed out several times in the past couple pages, in the whole discussion about coaching? I don't know if this is a really klutsy attempt to appear town by ignorance, or if you've been doing some serious skimming. Either way it's really scummy.

And then I thought I was wrong and Haylen had soft-claimed for some reason, but then she states that she is not a mason.

Anyway, Sucrose has just been moronic for the most part, and scummy when she hasn't been. She claimed that my angry outbursts were somehow more likely to come from scum based on one game where a scum had an angry outburst. When I pointed out how stupidly small her sample was I never got a reply.

I've seen it to lesser extent in other games too. Most players don't get furious unless something is really bothering them, you're one of the few players who has angry outbursts at almost nothing. But like I've said, I've seen that it's your meta, so it's a null tell for you. I didn't see the point in arguing with you some more about whether getting angry is scummy, because it's obvious we're never going to agree.

There's nothing at all scummy about Fenchurch's hammer. Esurio was on the back of the Paws wagon, and she got NK'd so I'm guess scum don't think we're dumb enough to go for the idea that people late on the wagon are the scummiest. Out of all the people on the wagon, I think the first three are the most likely to be scum (because of who they are, not just because they're the first three on the wagon). And yeah, there's probably one off the wagon as well. I'd be

really

surprised if all three scum are either on or off the wagon.

[Sucrose]

Oh hey, I'm having a scumday. I had no idea I'd been here so long.

[Sucrose]

The first three on Paws were myself, UncertainKitten and Apokalyptika. Why is there no vote with this post with how sure you are about all this? Why do you not further elaborate on who you think is scum and why?

Because I was waiting to see how Haylen would respond. And I'm not happy with how she responded. Four different posters mentioned the daytalk issue before the hammer, and then the next day Fenchurch specifically mentioned that Haylen still seemed unaware that scum had daytalk:

Has anyone else followed up on Ojanen's point about coaching-speculation? As far as I can see...

In 157 esuriospiritus suggests that Sotty might have been coaching Paws.

In 184 Apok comments that esurio may have a good point with this.

In 187 Sotty says that she was coaching in a way, in that she was trying to teach a new player.

In 229 esurio repeats her suspicions of Sotty coaching Paws.

And finally, in 283, Haylen implies that she is STILL unaware that mafia have daytalk. Given that this comes AFTER Ojanen has pointed out that they do, either Haylen hasn't been reading the game properly, or she's attempting to drop a deliberate (and now invalid) town-tell... I don't know what to make of that.

But what I really dislike is her reaction to me bringing it up, which isn't "Oh wow, I really screwed up there" its "you're scummy for pointing this out." It's enough for a VOTE: Haylen


Back to Sotty:

SCUMPUTER: SCUM DETECTED

Can you explain a bit more?

Sure could, sweet stuff.

It's the whining about hating to be scum. Sotty is describing her reactions when she picked up her role PM. That's why they are so vivid. They are recent, and very real.

Going waaay back in the thread, I thought this was a good catch, if nothing to lynch on on it's own.

But

, I tend to believe your explanation about making the wagon-starting vote on Paws was to put pressure on her to contribute, rather than being anything serious. So I've changed my mind; I no longer think you're one of the most suspicious people on the wagon.

[Sucrose]

Sorry for my posts being a little quote-heavy.

[Sucrose]

Sucrose when did you change your mind? Do you still think there is scum in the first three Paws wagoners?

When I re-looked at the reasons why your initial vote was on Paws, and saw it would be perfectly reasonable for a townie to place a vote there. Not that I really consider it a town-tell, but it's not scummy. I still think that there's (probably) 2 scum on the Paws wagon, and they probably came sooner rather than later. Right now I'm looking more at Haylen than anyone else, though.

[Sucrose]

cepi: somewhat late to the day, lack of town-tells.

Do you have a gut feel here, or are these your only reasons for wanting someone dead? I've thought cepi has seemed fairly town, though there's not a ton of her/her posts to go on. Personally I'm thinking Haylen is disorganized scum. Her rebuttal should be interesting though. I'm gonna have to re-read Snow_Bunny and Apok, Snow in particular has been fading into the background for me.