Newbie 980 ~ Game Over

[Earlder1]

Well, I'm not the doctor. Hmmm, this is a toughie. So apparently Zaj played a lurky anti-town game, but he claims it was so that he wasn't lynched or NK'd early. I think meta may be in order.

@Zaj
Have you had to claim in other games? If so, links? When I say claim, I mean as PR or as scum fake claiming. If you lie about this, we will find out, so links would be nice.

If Zaj has played as scum before and never claimed under pressure, or done so in a different way than here, that may give him some credibility. If there are multiple games of him claiming as scum in a similar situation tho, it may be the same ploy. This really makes me question my reads.

I really don't know where to put Zaj. I'm going to have to think this all over.

@Singer
Zaj was at L-1 by my count, but I could be wrong.

[Beefster]

I'm not the doc either. I do, however think his post on needing another night was more indicative of a cop. I'll search him for more tells to see if his claim matches. (keep in mind that there may not be a real doctor and Zaj picked the right fakeclaim as scum)

I'm currently in 2 other games with Zaj. We lynched him D1 in one of them and he flipped town.

[Beefster]

Vote: Zajnet

I just don't believe he's the Doc. I can't find any doc tells in his ISO.

[Mr. Flay]

FOS: Beefster

- why would you even consider lynching a claimed Doc today?? By my count Beefster, Flay, singersinger, Earlder1, and Nexus have all claimed not-Doc. We need to hear from jmurph3, but even still, what merit do you see in trying to lynch a claimed Doctor today? And then you're talking about he may be a Cop?!?!?

Also, I'm assuming we don't have a counter claim...
So...there's no way to prove your claim, except to lynch you for the protection of town tomorrow in a possible mindfuck of unproven claims. You realize the predicament you put us in, yes?

I don';t understand this part of your post. Why would you assume there will be no counterclaim? You were the very first person to post after Zajnet claimed - and then you start talking about Zaj being alive tomorrow?? No Giving Scum Ideaz Plz.

[singersigner]

@Flay...Because whoever counter claims would be stupid to give up his real claim. Better lynch a VT now than PR. And I'm not really sure where you think I'm giving scum ideas...

@Earlder...both you and beefster unvoted Zaj, which left only Flay's and my vote on him.

@Beefster...I think you're right in needing another being a better night=cop tell...so why would he claim doc?
And how can you vote Zaj for no "doc tells"? 1. You can't breadcrumb like cop. 2. You can't seriously be voting for him already because of no doc tells?? What makes you think he would've been smart enough to think of doing that anyway? (no offense Zaj)

@Zajnet...your cockiness about being able to talk yourself out of a lynch when you're genuinely townie upsets me.

Also, no talking about ongoing games please, even if you got lynched/NKed out of it.

[Nexus]

I don't quite understand why beefster's voting Zaj, when noone's counterclaimed.

beefster, would you mind explaining your reasoning?

[Mr. Flay]

@Flay...Because whoever counter claims would be stupid to give up his real claim. Better lynch a VT now than PR. And I'm not really sure where you think I'm giving scum ideas...

Huh? Explain the first two sentences using different words, please. It's been a LONG time since I played a Doc, but isn't the right thing to do is counterclaim, get one more night protection in, and then lynch the other guy tomorrow?

VOTE: Beefster

- your posts today have been just terrible. You started off voting Zajnet, say you don't want me lynched but 'the scumhunting is fine", then claim Zajnet is a policy lynch and unvote him (while throwing mud at me, jmurph3, and Earlder1), then revote him AFTER the Doctor claim. Run that by me again?

[Zajnet]

@Flay...Because whoever counter claims would be stupid to give up his real claim. Better lynch a VT now than PR. And I'm not really sure where you think I'm giving scum ideas...

@Earlder...both you and beefster unvoted Zaj, which left only Flay's and my vote on him.

@Beefster...I think you're right in needing another being a better night=cop tell...so why would he claim doc?
And how can you vote Zaj for no "doc tells"? 1. You can't breadcrumb like cop. 2. You can't seriously be voting for him already because of no doc tells?? What makes you think he would've been smart enough to think of doing that anyway? (no offense Zaj)

@Zajnet...your cockiness about being able to talk yourself out of a lynch when you're genuinely townie upsets me.

Also, no talking about ongoing games please, even if you got lynched/NKed out of it.

This is going to sound effing hilarious and just might get me lynched, but I actually thought I was a cop for a while there. I remembered I was town power and wrongly remembered cop and breadcrumbed that, then looked at my role pm to make sure and saw I was a Doc. Hence why no Doc breadcrumbs. It's really a facepalm moment, but whatever. Believe me or don't. I find Beefster's attacks on me after the claim to be very telling. Telling enough to

VOTE: Beefster

It's not that I'm cocky about being able to talk me out of a lynch, it's that I believe in the analytical power of a town to see that I'm really a townie when I really am, and failing that, I can always claim.

[Mr. Flay]

This is going to sound effing hilarious and just might get me lynched, but I actually thought I was a cop for a while there. I remembered I was town power and wrongly remembered cop and breadcrumbed that, then looked at my role pm to make sure and saw I was a Doc. Hence why no Doc breadcrumbs. It's really a facepalm moment, but whatever. Believe me or don't. I find Beefster's attacks on me after the claim to be very telling. Telling enough to

VOTE: Beefster

It's not that I'm cocky about being able to talk me out of a lynch, it's that I believe in the analytical power of a town to see that I'm really a townie when I really am, and failing that, I can always claim.

Ooooookaaaaaayyyy.... yeah, hilarious.

UNVOTE: Beefster

- I need to meditate on this. Zajnet's claim/behavior gets weirder all the time.

[Beefster]

I don't quite understand why beefster's voting Zaj, when noone's counterclaimed.

beefster, would you mind explaining your reasoning?

I simply don't believe him. I was expecting that when he claimed, he would claim cop. His play looks more like scum or cop and there is only one post that even hints at doctor/town. I didn't find any copfishing either.

There may not be a real doctor. So we can't rely solely on waiting for a counter claim.

Yeahh... He's on shaky ground.

[singersigner]

Huh? Explain the first two sentences using different words, please. It's been a LONG time since I played a Doc, but isn't the right thing to do is counterclaim, get one more night protection in, and then lynch the other guy tomorrow?

If there was someone to counterclaim, knowing Zajnet was wrong, they would want to keep their mouth shut so as to guarantee a protection tonight. Otherwise, we have one false-claim and one real claim (or two false claims) to deal with, causing all sorts of mayhem. If town lynches the wrong false claim, the real doc will then be under the radar for scum.

Basically, if this

is

a false claim, the real doc would know for sure, and be able to aid in the lynching of scum. Unless this is a false claim by a VT. In which case I'm irritated.

It's not that I'm cocky about being able to talk me out of a lynch, it's that I believe in the analytical power of a town to see that I'm really a townie when I really am, and failing that, I can always claim.

Can you explain the second part of this? And you have a lot of faith in the town to "do the right thing." I thought Nexus' defense was pretty downright awful in D1, so he still hasn't quite left my scumdar, yet. You can't just say, "oh, I'm town, of course the rest of town will be able to see this!"

[jmurph3]

@Everyone: I'm back, catching up on the thread. I will post as soon as possible.

[CSL]

The Yargh Vote Count

Mr. Flay (1) jmurph3
Beefster (1) Zajnet
Zajnet (1) Beefster

Not Voting: Mr. Flay, Nexus, singersigner, Earlder1

---

Deadline and Lynch info

Currently set for Sunday, August 22nd, at 7:00pm EST

There are SEVEN alive, so FOUR votes on a player will lynch.

V/LA's and Prods

Etc.

[Zajnet]

Hey CSL, what happened with modding the Fluxx game?

[Mr. Flay]

... the hell? Have you given up already, Zajnet? Why are you talking about Mish-Mash games in a Mafia game??

[singersigner]

Can we keep conversation that can be easily sent as a PM out of this thread please? I'm happy the game seems to be picking up, but I don't want to get distracted, especially since I'll be /LA for most of next week due to band camp.

Zajnet, forgetting your PR role is very dangerous and anti-town. I'd just like to say to you that I'm frustrated with you right now, especially if this is truly the case. It

is

looking more scummy than anything, though...

[Zajnet]

Can we keep conversation that can be easily sent as a PM out of this thread please? I'm happy the game seems to be picking up, but I don't want to get distracted, especially since I'll be /LA for most of next week due to band camp.

Zajnet, forgetting your PR role is very dangerous and anti-town. I'd just like to say to you that I'm frustrated with you right now, especially if this is truly the case. It

is

looking more scummy than anything, though...

Ok.

[jmurph3]

I just wanted to apologize in advance. Work/real-life has taken over, so I won't be posting as quickly as I thought I would be able to.

I will say that I am not the doctor, and that while I agree that Zajnet's latest posts are suspect (you didn't read the PM? Really??), I still think lynching a claimed doc on D2 is a poor choice.

BTW, @Zaj: you say that you breadcrumbed cop instead of doc. Can you show where you did this? It might lend some credibility to your claim.

[Zajnet]

If you flip town, I'd

take another look at

Flay, for one thing.

@Haylen: I think that Flay could very well be scum, and I'll

take a better look at

him once we know your alignment.

I did read the PM, I just forgot which town power I was until N1. I breadcrumbed cop in these two quotes from D1.

[Mr. Flay]

So who did you protect N1, me?

[singersigner]

So who did you protect N1, me?

I seriously hope that not what you interpreted his last post as.

I probably won't be on til later tonight (I'm in the process of drumline auditions), so I really hope we can get more contributions in between that time.

/off-topic...wish me luck!!

[Zajnet]

I'm the doctor. I protected Beefster last night.

[off-topic]Good Luck! I remember Band Camp....[/off-topic]

[Mr. Flay]

I'm the doctor. I protected Beefster last night.

Sorry, forgot that part of your post for some reason... probably in sheer confusion.

REVOTE: Beefster

- previous reasons still apply. Yes, there's no counterclaim, which means we're either dealing with a truthful claim or a lucky scumclaim. If he's scum though and (apparently) already breadcrumbed Cop, why claim Doc with all the confusion and risk it entails?? I don't understand your reasoning for voting him so quickly, especially before we even had all counterclaims.

Huh? Explain the first two sentences using different words, please. It's been a LONG time since I played a Doc, but isn't the right thing to do is counterclaim, get one more night protection in, and then lynch the other guy tomorrow?

If there was someone to counterclaim, knowing Zajnet was wrong, they would want to keep their mouth shut so as to guarantee a protection tonight. Otherwise, we have one false-claim and one real claim (or two false claims) to deal with, causing all sorts of mayhem. If town lynches the wrong false claim, the real doc will then be under the radar for scum.

Basically, if this

is

a false claim, the real doc would know for sure, and be able to aid in the lynching of scum. Unless this is a false claim by a VT. In which case I'm irritated.

I'm still not following, and we've got all the counterclaims out of the way now so I don't think there's any harm in pursuing it.

If Zajnet's lying AND (50% chance) there's a real Doctor out there, if they counterclaim we KNOW that one of the two is scum. The correct thing to do in that situation is to lynch neither of them today, see who lives, and lynch the other. Scum can't afford to just 'let the Doc live' overnight to breed suspicious, because then the Doctors become essentially confirmed townies, drawing risk onto everyone else AND running the risk of a missed kill which will confirm one Doc for sure. I think... or at least, that's how I approach it.

[Beefster]

Well I suppose his story works. It kinda threw me off when he mixed up his PR. I can't say I'm happy with it either. I don't believe him, but there are no CCs, so it probably isn't worth the risk.

UNVOTE

Let's move on and lynch some scum.

[singersigner]

off-topic: lunch break!/off-topic

If Zajnet's lying AND (50% chance) there's a real Doctor out there, if they counterclaim we KNOW that one of the two is scum. The correct thing to do in that situation is to lynch neither of them today, see who lives, and lynch the other. Scum can't afford to just 'let the Doc live' overnight to breed suspicious, because then the Doctors become essentially confirmed townies, drawing risk onto everyone else AND running the risk of a missed kill which will confirm one Doc for sure. I think... or at least, that's how I approach it.

Ok, I can see how that would work, but that would only be effective if we can't confirm scum through any other means (i.e. scummy play). I wouldn't want to risk real-Doc getting lynched/NKed if scum has just been playing a bad game. To me, that would be a last resort if real-Doc saw fake-Doc getting off without a hitch...make sense?

I agree with jmurph that it would be unwise to kill a claimed-doc on D2.

So we know this much:
-Zajnet's Doc claim seems to be stupidly believable (sorry, I still just can't get over how you could

forget

your role...)
-If there's a Cop (and Doc claim is true), only this person knows for sure there's a roleblocker, so they should especially be wary of targets/scumzies
-Earlder and Nexus haven't posted thoughts in a while...

@Flay...You seem to be awful keen about getting all the claims out there...