Mini 1021: Battousai's Mountaintnous Mountain Mafia (Over)

[Lateralus22]

Nexus please respond to my post (#163)

I'm not doing very well at explaining myself at all.

Yes, you seem consistent in doing so.

[Nexus]

"Alright I understand, I assume you made all of your posts in a fast way?"

That bit?

Yes. Up until I made that comment, now I'm slowing down a bit.

[Lateralus22]

"Alright I understand, I assume you made all of your posts in a fast way?"

That bit?

Yes. Up until I made that comment, now I'm slowing down a bit.

Yes, that bit.

Now you've told me you're lying. You did not post every post in a fast "Think as I write way."

Lets look at your largest post (#111). There's a load of information there, you're telling me a person with a "short attention span" remembered all of that and typed up all of it without referencing to the thread even once? Even I had to read through the first few pags to get what was going on =/

Now my point is, now at this point you've finally slowed down why didn't you keep on posting in this way? Why are you rushing and as you yourself and you end up saying "'I'm not doing very well at explaining myself at all. (#174)"

Also your first list you believe it should be titled "This is where I stand" right? Does this mean that your second and third list is more of an "official" correct scum list you stand by?

[Nexus]

I object. I'm not lying.

Actually, I was writing that post as I was reading other posts, which is why it was so jumbled-as I read a post, and had a thought, I jotted it down. If you notice, it took me 26 minutes to write that post-I started after Xite posted his post 107. However, if I remember correctly, I actually was writing it in after 109 had been posted, because I remember having to read 110 before posting it. I didn't reference any posts, but I was writing it and reading the posts in two separate tabs. That's how I did it. I didn't slow down at all. If you read my post 111, it's each page and each few posts at a time, without putting any references in. It was a ramble, an attempt to make some sense. Then I pressed post once I'd written it down. I type really quickly.

Every single post I make has been done in the same way-I read the latest post, and post my thoughts to it. If I need to look back, I do, but I think 111 is the only post I've really had to look back through the thread, as it was made in order to show Xite my own thoughts, since they'd been asked for.

So, I don't think I've lied. Sorry.

The list I stand by is the third.

[Lateralus22]

I didn't reference any posts, but I was writing it and reading the posts in two separate tabs.

That's what I meant by referencing, you were looking at the posts in order to see what to write. I assumed that when you said "Write as I think" you read the posts then simply typed them up, am I misunderstanding you?

Alright so list number three is what you stand with. Now tell my why in list two and three you decided to copy off from Xite.

Dalt,
Korashk,
CA,
LmL,
Prana,
Lat,
Everyone else.

Here, I'll give my scumlist that is based -mostly- on gut

Saga
Nexus
Havingfitz

Based more on info

CA
LmL
Prana

It seems those three are listed in the same order. Or do you both think very alike? After all you first wrote CA as not that suspicious but put him as third on your list. Are you sure you simply put him that way despite your beliefs because you were copying what Xite wrote? Why are CA/LmL/Prana in the same order?

[Nexus]

Oh, I think you might be misunderstanding me. If I need to read posts, I'll read them as I'm writing. If I need to go back and reference them, I'll be reading them at the same time as writing-I don't read all 180 posts then write, because I forget stuff from the start then. If it's just one post, like yours now, I'll read that, and then type and answer it, as I am now.

I didn't copy Xite, I think we just think alike. I didn't realise his list was like that.

I first wrote CA was not that suspicious. Then, I had to make the second list...(the middle list), and I reread the posts, and decided that in fact he was more suspicious than my original thoughts. So, he moved up to third. CA/LmL/Prana are in that order because that's how suspicious I see them-CA flipped his vote a lot and got really defensive, LmL was really defensive, but less suspicious than CA because I had more reasons for CA-defensive and three votes in the space of as many pages, and the Prana because he was defensive, just less so than LmL. That was my way of thinking.

I think I've answered your questions, if you need more, let me know and I'll try my best.

[ConfidAnon]

Confid is town
Username is probtown

Why?

Post #0 - Simply voting Lee
Post#1 - You're saying that you approve of the Lee wagon. What exactly made you change your mind in post 3?
Post #2 - Hm, a sudden change of heart? It looks like you've decided to back off Lee because you don't believe you'll be able to achieve any sort of lynch? why didn't you keep your vote, the whole point of having a bandwagon is to bring information so do you not believe that if you had stayed on Lee the information you've been looking for would have came up?
Post#3 - It seems you've changed your mind again? This is all in the sake of getting a good bandwagon going? Were the last two not good enough?

1. No leather seats.
2. He didn't get enough gas mileage.
3. I liked the newer model better.

Seriously, I was just hopping votes to get reactions, see what wagons would form, etc. That's that.

Before I continue with a large post 9as I will only get a chance for one post today... I would like to mention that this is Nexus's "suspicion" list, yet his vote is currently levied on me, 4th on his list. This screams of blustering at fellow scum but not voting for them. You can call it OMGUS if you feel like it. I say it's worthy of a vote.

This is quite a good point.

LmL vs. Nexus looks like it's gonna go on for a while . . . probably only gonna comment on the stuff that jumps out at me. Doing this as a running commentary as I read the thread.

That really strikes me as scummy as it's like "look, vote Nexus. I'm right, listen to me!" it's really insistent.

How is insistence a scumtell? If you believe someone is scum, you want others to vote them, correct? This seems like a bad attempt to make your attacker look bad.

With that said I still have two more things that I think we should all remember:
1.) There are ten of us, we need to work as a team. We are not individuals (well we are, but you know what I mean).
2.) There are ten of us, it's okay if we lynch a townie or two on accident. Even a lynched townie garners information for us to analyze.

I don't like the entire post, but this in particular bothers me.

The entire post has another vote count (information over analysis), a vote where the rationale is "I don't believe you," creating an excuse to lurk through the day "I'm not gonna be very useful," and what I quoted. I see it as kind of a Town motivational rallying cry . . . either side can do it, and it strikes me as a cheap way for scum to earn town points.

Unvote, Vote: Korashk

Forgive me if I don't care about your opinion and what you find suspicious. You're an admitted noob.

And now your an arrogant bastard.

Unvote, Vote: Korashk

No need to come down on players and say their opinion is not valid just because they are a noob. It leads to cliqueyness in the site, and new players won't want to play any more if everyone has that attitude. Too bad that's not a scumtell, but at least you have enough in the previous post for me to vote you.

So, ConfidAnon appears to be pretty blatantly responding to his wagon by lying low and waiting for it to blow over. I am disappointed that this appears to be working for him.

. . . or I just forgot about the thread. Tell me how that confirmation bias works out for ya.

Also, how's the tunnel? Any lights in there? As I said above, my rvs play was mainly to get reactions. I did not have every thing I did analyzed and planned out to a T . . . it was mainly for kicks and giggles, although I was interested to see how people would wagon and things of that nature. So lynch me.

Nexu's inconsistant suspicions are kind of scummy, but could be a noob mistake. So I like the Korashk vote better.

And sorry for not posting for a while, got a little busy in real life and forgot to check mafiascum. Catching up in my games now.

[havingfitz]

I'm still fine with my dalt54321 vote. Number two on my list atm is Korashk for his RV on CA using the random # generator coupled with the direct question/challenge to CA which he never follows up on despite CA basically ignoring (as far as I can see) the post/question/challenge by Korashk. As if Korashk is trying to justify his RV w/o the typical lame reasons and posting other content which he doesn't really care about.

Also...I may get a chance to post again today, but

I will be v/LA tomorrow through Tuesday evening

.

[Battousai]

Vote Count:

Nexus

-4- Xite91, LoudmouthLee, Lateralus22, Leech

ConfidAnon

-2- iamausername, PranaDevil

dalt54321

-2- Saga, havingfitz

Korashk

-2- dalt54321, ConfidAnon

PranaDevil

-1- Korashk

Not Voting:

Nexus

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch (pre-deadline)!

dalt54321 and Saga have been prodded!

[Nexus]

I already answered that one, LmL. I reread his posts, after I'd written the "not suspicious" one, and decided he was more suspicious. I'm not doing very well at explaining myself at all.

The reason I haven't unvoted you now is that I assumed that if I did, now I've been challenged, I'd be seen as scum. However, as I'm getting close to being lynched, I'll

unvote

and vote the person who I think is most suspicious once I've reread the thread again.

@mod. I

unvoted

[Nexus]

...

unvoted

I have no idea where the underline came from.

[Leech]

2) I'll remember that if I end up playing any other games with you/ if I see you replacing out of other games. Also, that's more a what if scenario. I probably wouldn't replace out as scum either, but I also wouldn't replace out as a PR, or if I really like the game I'm in. Other's would rather play town. See where I'm going with this?

Yes, and I'm in complete agreement. Replacing out is null. The fact that Nexus actually tried passing that off as scummy, in the manner he did, really strikes a chord with me. Especially consdiring I have seen scum, in previous games, make extremely similar comments about someone asking for replacement.

@Leech: Do you find HF's post a scumtell, or do you find CA's lack of a response a scumtell? Or do you find them both nulls?

I consider his HF's post null. What I find suspicious is how his post fit the exact description of Iam's gambit, yet he abandoned it before even questioning that post. If you deliberately make a play seeking a specific reaction, then you typically don't ignore that reaction when it happens. Unless, of course, you weren't really doing it for that reaction. I find that to be more of a scumtell.

I'm trying to find what CA has to do with any of this. Can you provide a quote that links him to it?

The reason I haven't unvoted you now is that I assumed that if I did, now I've been challenged, I'd be seen as scum. However, as I'm getting close to being lynched, I'll unvote and vote the person who I think is most suspicious once I've reread the thread again.

So, you're wrongfully leaving a vote on someone because you feel unvoting would make you appear scummy? I'm pretty sure you have that backwords. Leaving your vote on someone that you don't think it should be on, is scummy. Your stated reason for unvoting is incredibly scummy as well.

I'm still fine with my dalt54321 vote.

You're still fine with your vote on Dalt, for "lying"? He didn't even lie. If he does miraculously re-appear in this game (sadly replacing out of a game 2-3 posts in to it, appears to be the guy's meta) and finishes the game, this realistically will have been his first mafia game. What really bugs me about this, is that you find your reason for voting Dalt more substantial than this:

Number two on my list atm is Korashk for his RV on CA using the random # generator coupled with the direct question/challenge to CA which he never follows up on despite CA basically ignoring (as far as I can see) the post/question/challenge by Korashk. As if Korashk is trying to justify his RV w/o the typical lame reasons and posting other content which he doesn't really care about.

You have a legitimate reason for your suspicion of Korashk, and he's second place. He's second place to a newbie who "lied" about making two posts in a mafia game that occured two years ago. That doesn't seem right to me.

[dalt54321]

i'm here. and really dont know what to think. the days are so long.

[Xite91]

The reason I haven't unvoted you now is that I assumed that if I did, now I've been challenged, I'd be seen as scum. However, as I'm getting close to being lynched, I'll

unvote

and vote the person who I think is most suspicious once I've reread the thread again.

First, vote whoever you think is scummiest, then change your vote when that changes. That's how it works. Don't just unvote, because not having your vote on anyone looks extremely scummy most of the time because it deprives town of information.
Second, never Ever not change your vote because you're afraid it will look scummy if you do. You'll get a lot more suspicion from keeping your vote on someone you don't believe is scum.
Third, how many times do you have to reread the thread? Nexus, poor lad, stick with your gut, make cases based on that, and push the cases into the rest of the players' faces. That's how you play this game. Don't second guess yourself, lest ye always be lynchee #1.

Now that my noob lesson is over and nexus looks a little less scum and more noob (I don't think even noobscum would admit to that top line, but eh, he's still my top suspect)

@Lat - I could quote your whole post, but how many wall posts do you really wanna see from me? You know I'm capable of it.
Anyways, it could be just a coincidence, CA, LmL, Prana does sound better after all. That's why I posted them in that order Either way, you seem to be looking for a reason to vote the biggest wagon. For some reason, if Nexus flips town, you're going to be super-scummy to me

@CA - See first sentence to Lat, although you don't know yet how capable of it I am.
Why? Eh, just gut based on what I've seen.
I lol'd at your 1,2,3
Scumtell question - It was the way he did it, I saw it too. I wish I could reference ongoing games in order to show you a perfect example of why this is scummy. Otherwise, it's hard to explain.
Agreed on all of your Korashk points

1) Yes, and I'm in complete agreement. Replacing out is null. The fact that Nexus actually tried passing that off as scummy, in the manner he did, really strikes a chord with me. Especially consdiring I have seen scum, in previous games, make extremely similar comments about someone asking for replacement.

2) I consider his HF's post null. What I find suspicious is how his post fit the exact description of Iam's gambit, yet he abandoned it before even questioning that post. If you deliberately make a play seeking a specific reaction, then you typically don't ignore that reaction when it happens. Unless, of course, you weren't really doing it for that reaction. I find that to be more of a scumtell.

The rest I'll leave their prospective players to respond to.
1) This is a debate that's been going on forever, too. I've seen pro-town players say it too. It's just a belief some players have and others don't. It's kind of like a mafia superstition.

2) Or he just didn't care for it because his purpose of the gambit was to catch scum lying about a PR, not to see if someone hadn't read the rules. Goddamn read the thread man!

[Lateralus22]

@Lat - I could quote your whole post, but how many wall posts do you really wanna see from me? You know I'm capable of it.
Anyways, it could be just a coincidence, CA, LmL, Prana does sound better after all. That's why I posted them in that order Either way, you seem to be looking for a reason to vote the biggest wagon. For some reason, if Nexus flips town, you're going to be super-scummy to me

My vote made his the biggest wagon, so you could apply that reasoning if I had voted for anyone that had two votes. I'm happy with my vote and if I look scummy if Nexus turns out to be town then that's too bad.

i'm here. and really dont know what to think. the days are so long.

Go back and read the thread. Considering you're one of the biggest suspects what we're discussing should interest you.

[PranaDevil]

Okay, I was letting Nexus and Lat have their debate, and seeing what I could get from it. Nexus appears somewhat scummy to me, but I'm still not sure if he's outright scum, or it's because he's not used to the seriousness of this site. So I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Dalt is still suspect, I'll give him a pass on the fact it wasn't a full game he played before as he replaced out. However an activity post and nothing more is always suspect from where I sit. I want to hear Dalt's comments on everything that's gone on, most noteably everything regarding him.

However, by default that means havingfitz shoots up my suspect list. I'll admit to not actively checking the game Dalt was in until it was pointed out, because I honestly didn't think someone would stretch so far as to link to a game someone replaced out of in short order, and while it still supports Dalt knowing how to vote. I think it makes HF look scummy to be trying to portray Dalt as a liar.

I'm still not liking CA's reasoning so much, because if he were trying to do what he says he was he would have known pointing out what he was trying to do would also have got him nowhere, and it smells more like not wanting to be responsible for his votes.

However, one thing I DO like from CA, and it's made me look in that direction more, is his comment on Korashk, which stands out to me even more so after he claimed he had a reason to not vote initially, despite never actually posting one, but yet somehow claiming he had to discredit what I was saying.

So for now...

unvote; vote: Korashk

CA looks scummy to me a little, but Korashk is saying more by not saying anything at all after he was called out on that point, and I think he was hoping it would blow over by the time he returned. I'd like to see more pressure on Korashk.

[Nexus]

OK. I went away and gathered my thoughts, and had allowed the exchange with Lateralus to distract me from Korashk.

The fact that he posted the list in post 140 which was wrong got my suspicions up. Which is why I FoSed him. He then proceeded to dismiss my opinion "because I was a noob", which, whilst true, is also a bit of a shit reason to dismiss my opinion. Furthermore, I think he has the ulterior motive that if he dismisses me, and sends me running away with my tail between my legs-something which sort of happened with Xite, I'd forget he'd made the mistake, or back off. Well, it hasn't worked. I left his post so as I didn't say anything rash and get into an argument, but now I've come back to it, that's my feeling on it.

Post 153: He's very dismissive of the points Lateralus makes, especially point 3. "It doesn't matter what you say, you're wrong." I admit to using something similar to this this in another game, and it was rightly pointed out as pompous, and scummy.

His "It doesn't matter if we lynch a townie or two" statement doesn't sit right with me either. It is technically true, but not really something a townie should actively go around saying, in my opinion. Maybe he's hoping others will agree, so he'll seem less scummy and not care. Yeah, it's fine if the RVS quickly leads to a townie lynch, in my opinion, but now we've gone past the RVS, I don't think this attitude is helpful.

unvote; (if it hasn't been sorted yet) vote: Korashk.

[Nexus]

...damnit.

unvote; (if it hasn't been sorted yet) vote: Korashk

[havingfitz]

I'm still fine with my dalt54321 vote.

You're still fine with your vote on Dalt, for "lying"? He didn't even lie. If he does miraculously re-appear in this game (sadly replacing out of a game 2-3 posts in to it, appears to be the guy's meta) and finishes the game, this realistically will have been his first mafia game. What really bugs me about this, is that you find your reason for voting Dalt more substantial than this:

Number two on my list atm is Korashk for his RV on CA using the random # generator coupled with the direct question/challenge to CA which he never follows up on despite CA basically ignoring (as far as I can see) the post/question/challenge by Korashk. As if Korashk is trying to justify his RV w/o the typical lame reasons and posting other content which he doesn't really care about.

You have a legitimate reason for your suspicion of Korashk, and he's second place. He's second place to a newbie who "lied" about making two posts in a mafia game that occured two years ago. That doesn't seem right to me.

How did dalt not lie? He said ....

I play mafia all the time, but this is the first on this site, could someone give me a quick rundown of the basics? ive read the wiki and stuff, but i see like you have to vote with colons and stuff.

He has played here before despite stating he hasn't. He commented on the rules for voting...displayed his ability to vote properly in his previous (un-acknowledged) game...and yet can't vote right here. He is just coming off as a poor little lamb lost in the woods to me and I am not buying it. Obviously your interpretation of lying is different than mine.

As for Korashk...I left out the part where in post 25...he complains about how many people have random votes on them and that he is going to "refrain from voting right now" only to vote less than 90 minutes later with the explicitly unbiased random vote of CA. Which adds another RV recipient to the list he just got done complaining about. Plus I find his vote counts too forced an effort at being helpful. dalt54321 or Korashk have my vote locked up at the moment. For now I'll still with the lying little lamb.

As mentioned earlier today...v/LA until Tuesday night. zzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Xite91]

Hey so i really don't know whats going on yet. I play mafia all the time, but this is the first on this site, could someone give me a quick rundown of the basics? ive read the wiki and stuff, but i see like you have to vote with colons and stuff.

also the first day is 28 days?

So he was confused? So what?
On the site I played on before this you had to vote like this

##Vote: XXXX

I almost did this in my first game one here, but saw that it wasn't necessary.
And, ok he made a mistake? I accidentally forget to put vote into some of my votes, does that make me scummy too?
He asked for a quick rundown on how the site worked, maybe he forgot? He's playing on other sites.
I would be insulting you greatly if I didn't think that the mod would give me shit for it.

[ConfidAnon]

the direct question/challenge to CA which he never follows up on despite CA basically ignoring (as far as I can see) the post/question/challenge by Korashk.

Huh? Where was this?

I'm still not liking CA's reasoning so much, because if he were trying to do what he says he was he would have known pointing out what he was trying to do would also have got him nowhere, and it smells more like not wanting to be responsible for his votes.

Funny . . . I thought it smelled like vanilla with a hint of cinnamon. To each his own, eh?

He has played here before despite stating he hasn't. He commented on the rules for voting...displayed his ability to vote properly in his previous (un-acknowledged) game...and yet can't vote right here. He is just coming off as a poor little lamb lost in the woods to me and I am not buying it. Obviously your interpretation of lying is different than mine.

Utterly rediculous. As someone else pointed out, the other game had minimal involvement from him before he replaced out. How about this explanation? He forgot how to vote since that game he barely participated in. Not everything is an epic scum plot designed to deceive us.

However, new player or amazingly crafty/cunning/lying scum mastermind who is gonna give *insert vet player here* a run for their money or not, I would like to see more content than "I really don't know what to think." Dalt, who do you think is scum?

[Xite91]

CA, I like your breadcrumbing there. Starting to lose that

gut

loving feelin

[iamausername]

Also, maybe the wrong wording was on his part? Just sayin

I'm pretty sure that is what he was saying, yes. What I'm saying is that I don't believe him. I think he meant exactly what he said, he had every intention of pushing for Prana's lynch, and the fact that he is trying to back away from that stinks to high heaven. Clearer?

Seriously...did you expect any town PRs to reveal themselves? Though I do support scum claims. You first?

You claim to have been seriously trying to catch scum off guard, and someone actually posted a comment that fits the bill. Oddly enough, I haven't seen you mention it a single time. If those were really your intentions, why didnt you pursue them when someone did react in the exact manner you described? Clearly with the people laughing at your proposal before Havingfitz replied, that is an indication that he posted before reading the comments about your suggestion being funny. Not reading the thread before you post brings up an entirely new area that you could have pursued. Instead of doing any of this, you just dismissed your idea. I don't see why you'd go to the lengths to actually attempt that gambit just to abandon it so quickly.

VOTE: iamausername for rolefishing.
Seriously...did you expect any town PRs to reveal themselves? Though I do support scum claims. You first?

You're funny. Do you even read mod-posts?

Apparently as well as iamausername

Xite tipped havingfitz off before I had any chance to pursue the gambit to the point where it might actually garner anything useful. If I'd been around to make a post immediately after havingfitz's first I certainly would have pursued the issue further.

---

I really dislike Lateralus's contributions to the continued assault on poor ol' Nexus. It doesn't feel like he's trying to determine anything about Nexus's alignment, it feels like he is trying to win an argument, like this will 'prove' Nexus's scumminess, and we will all be compelled to vote Nexus when he does.

I could definitely get behind a Lat wagon right now.

[Battousai]

Korashk has requested replacement!

[Lateralus22]

I'm still fine with my dalt54321 vote. Number two on my list atm is Korashk for his RV on CA using the random # generator coupled with the direct question/challenge to CA which he never follows up on despite CA basically ignoring (as far as I can see) the post/question/challenge by Korashk. As if Korashk is trying to justify his RV w/o the typical lame reasons and posting other content which he doesn't really care about.

Also...I may get a chance to post again today, but I will be v/LA tomorrow through Tuesday evening.

Challenge...?

Concerning the dalt lying situation why did you ommit the fact that the game was,

1. 2 years ago.
2. he had 2 very small posts.

Why?

He is just coming off as a poor little lamb lost in the woods to me and I am not buying it. Obviously your interpretation of lying is different than mine.

Oddly enough his "little loss lamb" behavior as you call it is contradicting to his "I play mafia all the time (#10)" and "for not yet knowing that i'm really good at this game. (#36)" statements he made. I don't really know what to think of this.

----

[quote="iamausername""]I really dislike Lateralus's contributions to the continued assault on poor ol' Nexus. It doesn't feel like he's trying to determine anything about Nexus's alignment, it feels like he is trying to win an argument, like this will 'prove' Nexus's scumminess, and we will all be compelled to vote Nexus when he does.[/quote]
Hm? I got interested in Nexus when LmL pointed out he had "major inconsistencies" (#124), when LmL pointed out Nexus lying (#125), and decided to start investigating him when I saw his defensive post (#126) since LmL did not question him as much as I thought he should have been questioned. The purpose of my attack on Nexus was point out inconsistencies and to catch him lying.