Mini 1003 Mafia - Game Over

[Tasky]

EBWOP...
this should have been the start of the post:

I haven't looked into this forum for 2 weeks now, so my opinions are very likely different from how they were earlier. I'll just reread the part from where I dropped out, and make comments on that part (especially since it's the time were most of the replacements jumped in)
and also keep in mind that I'm rereading the thread chronologically, so it could be I answer to something someone else already answered to.

ok, here is my big bad catch-up-post:

[Zang]

Votecount-

nopointinactingup - 2 - (Tazaro, Magnaofillusion) (L-3)
Tasky - 2 - (Espeonage, nopointinactingup) (L-3)

Not Voting: redtail896, Quoi, Untrod Tripod, Shattered Viewpoint, Tasy

5 to lynch

Deadline is August 16 at 9:30 pm EDT


Prodding Untrod Tripod

[redtail896]

1. Do you believe Tasky to be scum?
2. What did you accomplish by ‘pressuring’ SV?

2. I'd like to think that my pressure got him posting something substantive. And for a brief period at the end of day 1, it did (SV was actually posting substantive content). However, he has fallen back to his old ways. As such, I guess my attempts to pressure him have ultimately failed. I also feel that my turning my attention to SV might have led to a weakening of the Tasky wagon, and may have ultimately led to the Chevre lynch. So, my "accomplishments" are an SV who is still lurking, and a dead townie. Go me.

1. In a single word, yes. However, I think that, for better or for worse, his long V/LA have tempered my suspicions somewhat. Here is a brief summary of my points for and against Tasky:

In Tasky's favor

:
-His suspicion of Espeonage, which seems to be a logical case (if a little scatter-brained; can you explain it in a more concise fashion please?)

Against Tasky

:
-The vote jumping. Man, that rapid vote jumping. To me, it demonstrates an unwillingness to stick with a single suspicion and a desire to find something that sticks with other people. It means that the town is less likely to pay attention to and give credence to your suspicions, and it makes you unreliable in our eyes.
-Continual suspicion of Chihuahua with his vote elsewhere, for what I can see as no real reason.
-His disclaimer that, after the long V/LA, his views will be different. Yeah, I guess that kind of makes sense, since quite a bit has happened in the last couple of weeks. But man, that seems to be setting himself up for inconsistencies.

Things that seem null to me

:
-The chihuahua town request (really, I've got nothing here)
-The long V/LA

There, in a very small nutshell, are my feelings on Tasky.

[Tazaro]

I vote jump, so that's a null tell to me.

[Shattered Viewpoint]

First, welcome Tazaro.

Second, I do apologize for my Promise Fail. Life intervened over the weekend; I won't bore you with the details.

Third as, for Tasky, I appreciate the effort that he has put into his huge Wall-O-Text but, even though I read it a couple of times, it still seems that he isn't focusing much on scumhunting, but instead is trying to defend himself (not that I have a problem with defending yourself) and point fingers in (seemingly) every which direction. I think he's simply trying to pin scumminess on whomever it might stick to.

Tasky's case on me is, well, lacking. True, I've not been the paragon of activity here, but I will try to rectify that at this point.

Also, I can't get behind a wagon on Espeonage. Tasky's case on Espeonage is, at best, flimsy, and at worst, scumflailing trying to wagin a sort-of suspicious townie.

Vote: Tasky

[Espeonage]

UNVOTE: Tasky
VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

@ Tasky: I'll answer your case. btw, ^that isn't to do with you. I realised I have a reason to unvote you as well. I just need to go do an iso and find a post.

[nopointinactingup]

@Magma: For as long as you still consider me Cognitive Dissonance with your confirmation bias, I will not reply to your irrelevancy.

It's always the case that Tasky is seen as somewhat scummy. More votes on NoPoint for such things as his posts wherein there's cognitive dissonance? all right:

NoPoint

. And how scummy this post is. What is your point of view? Not Magma's PoV.

It's a common sense rule that you don't necessarily vote for someone you want to lynch.

when would that be the case?

How many people have you voted for Tasky? Does it mean you want to lynch all 8 of them?

Chevre is obviously a scum flailing, I will put her at L-1 and ask her to claim.

Unvote:Vote:Chevre

bad, very bad... you seem to be very interested in the claim... the L-1 argument is nonsense, since at deadline Chevre would die anyway... you voting is not going to make a claim better, since it's less probable enough townies can get off the wagon in case the claim is credible... I think you just wanted to lynch
[/quote]

Fair point. But the thought of lynch-at-deadline really didn't really occur to me.
@Tasky: Why is Espeonage scum?

1. Do you believe Tasky to be scum?
2. What did you accomplish by ‘pressuring’ SV?

2. I'd like to think that my pressure got him posting something substantive. And for a brief period at the end of day 1, it did (SV was actually posting substantive content). However, he has fallen back to his old ways. As such, I guess my attempts to pressure him have ultimately failed. I also feel that my turning my attention to SV might have led to a weakening of the Tasky wagon, and may have ultimately led to the Chevre lynch. So, my "accomplishments" are

an SV who is still lurking, and a dead townie

. Go me.

Orly he's a townie? And how would you know?

1. In a single word, yes. However, I think that, for better or for worse, his long V/LA have tempered my suspicions somewhat. Here is a brief summary of my points for and against Tasky:

In Tasky's favor

:
-His suspicion of Espeonage, which seems to be a logical case (if a little scatter-brained; can you explain it in a more concise fashion please?)

Against Tasky

:
-The vote jumping. Man, that rapid vote jumping. To me, it demonstrates an unwillingness to stick with a single suspicion and a desire to find something that sticks with other people. It means that the town is less likely to pay attention to and give credence to your suspicions, and it makes you unreliable in our eyes.
-Continual suspicion of Chihuahua with his vote elsewhere, for what I can see as no real reason.
-His disclaimer that, after the long V/LA, his views will be different. Yeah, I guess that kind of makes sense, since quite a bit has happened in the last couple of weeks. But man, that seems to be setting himself up for inconsistencies.

Things that seem null to me

:
-The chihuahua town request (really, I've got nothing here)
-The long V/LA

There, in a very small nutshell, are my feelings on Tasky.

Well? Then do you think he's scum or town?

[nopointinactingup]

unvote Espeonage

I guess. I'm not convinced that Lemon wasn't scum, but I'll at least cool it on his replacement for the time being. I'm not sure how I feel about this Tasky bandwagon that's formed. I don't really get a scum reading from him, I just get an over-exuberant townie read on him. I felt, reading his posts, that he just thought the best way to catch scum is to get everyone to say as much as possible. I think that's a pretty reasonable thing to want to do. When the town said "I'm not sure why this particular exercize is helpful", he said "ah, fuck it, then" for that particular question and left it at that.

I'm just not convinced that he deserves to be at L-2 for that

. That's all.

Though I'm not one of Tasky's attacker, I'm not liking this post defending him.

what exactly don't you like?

The X marks the underlined words.

[Tazaro]

I need to cool my jets and not jump at the first thought that comes to my head:

UNVOTE

[Untrod Tripod]

Ok, sorry about the delay. I've had a large number of family issues crop up along with the concerns of moving across the country for grad school to deal with. But I should be posting more now that some of that is cleared up.

I will be rolling out a couple of larger posts, but I have been bugged by something for a while: Esp's voting patterns. It's been spaced out enough over the course of the game along with a fair number of largely one-line/contentless posts along the way that it's only really obvious in ISO. So, what I'm going to do now is post every single one of Esp's posts that contain a vote:

Chihuahua is Town. there is no escaping that fact. He is so textbook newb it isn't funny. I have played way to many Newbie games in the past not very long to know what I am talking about in this department. Two of my past three games have had players all most exactly the same. All have turned up town. Anyway nhammen gets a pre-replacement tick but noone is confirmed yet.

Now. Tasky is scum. I have seen it so many times when wishy washy voting is the explaination for what he has done. It is worse than that. Now unless tasky is a noob which he doesn't come accross as then he is obv scum. That was early day one scum nerves. Now if he were a newbie than a non newbie game would be enough to entice this reaction. He seemed to be so much more into the game than he should have and seemed to me to be grasping for purchase on a vote wether it was the RVS or not.
So for now. VOTE: Tasky

UNVOTE: Tasky
VOTE: Chevre

Ok now I understand that there is a large amount of confirmation bias here. In light of nhammens last little tib bit on me for the future this may look bad but I propose a derail of the chevre wagon and a move back to Tasky. i still think tasky is scum and should he not be my whole case on Chevre falls apart and I wouldn't ote for her again.

UNVOTE: Chevre
VOTE: Tasky

Wait hours?
oh.
UNVOTE: Tasky
VOTE: Chevre

Eh I give up.
VOTE: Tasky

UNVOTE: Tasky
VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint
@ Tasky: I'll answer your case. btw, ^that isn't to do with you. I realised I have a reason to unvote you as well. I just need to go do an iso and find a post.

Seriously? If anyone in this game is tunneling, it's you. I feel like, at this point, we really should insist that you provide a little more reasoning with your votes. So, uh...why are you voting SV? Why are you SO SURE that Tasky deserves votes?

Also, Magna, in response to your assertion about me being an early-game voter for Tasky and using that to draw some kind of line between me and Tasky, I would have to say that I voted for him because I thought he would be a foamy-mouthed crazed vote-hopper. He stated a fair and intelligent defense of his strategy and since then I've (rather vocally, I might add) been of the opinion that his behavior, which has been used as evidence that he's scum, seems pro-town to me. So I unvoted him. End of story.

unvote Espeonage

I guess. I'm not convinced that Lemon wasn't scum, but I'll at least cool it on his replacement for the time being. I'm not sure how I feel about this Tasky bandwagon that's formed. I don't really get a scum reading from him, I just get an over-exuberant townie read on him. I felt, reading his posts, that he just thought the best way to catch scum is to get everyone to say as much as possible. I think that's a pretty reasonable thing to want to do. When the town said "I'm not sure why this particular exercize is helpful", he said "ah, fuck it, then" for that particular question and left it at that.

I'm just not convinced that he deserves to be at L-2 for that

. That's all.

Though I'm not one of Tasky's attacker, I'm not liking this post defending him.

what exactly don't you like?

The X marks the underlined words.

So...you don't like that I don't think Tasky is scum?

[Shattered Viewpoint]

The only thing I can see that Espe may have reason to vote me is that I called Tasky's case on Espe weka. (Or was it flimsy?) Whichever.)

Espe, really? I'm waiting for this post you're looking for.

[Tasky]

It's a common sense rule that you don't necessarily vote for someone you want to lynch.

when would that be the case?

How many people have you voted for Tasky? Does it mean you want to lynch all 8 of them?

wait... you were saying that it can be, that you want to lynch someone, but don't vote for him... and I wanted to know when...
I have voted for a lot of people, so what? I did not not-vote-for-someone-I-want-to-lynch
probably just a misunderstanding though.

1. Do you believe Tasky to be scum?
2. What did you accomplish by ‘pressuring’ SV?

2. I'd like to think that my pressure got him posting something substantive. And for a brief period at the end of day 1, it did (SV was actually posting substantive content). However, he has fallen back to his old ways. As such, I guess my attempts to pressure him have ultimately failed. I also feel that my turning my attention to SV might have led to a weakening of the Tasky wagon, and may have ultimately led to the Chevre lynch. So, my "accomplishments" are

an SV who is still lurking, and a dead townie

. Go me.

Orly he's a townie? And how would you know?

hmmm, let me think... he flipped?

_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_

Untrod Tripod, I like your post...
I think I should vote now
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

[Tazaro]

Yes, I followed MagnaOfIllusion too closely. This game, I intend to not be so much of a follower, thought it's tempting because I'm a replacement who wasn't in the flow of things as you guys were.

[Tazaro]

I think the case against Tasky is better than the case against nopoint:

VOTE: Tasky

[Untrod Tripod]

I think the case against Tasky is better than the case against nopoint:

VOTE: Tasky

I think x person is scummy because other people think they're scummy. We all know that other people think that. Why do YOU think that?

[Tazaro]

The thing that sells me on Tasky more likely being scum is based on meta. Tasky usually says a lot of stuff to qualify his moves, but in that post above, he voted Shattered Viewpoint based on liking your post, Untrod Tripod. Forgoing saying a lot of stuff to qualify his vote; that's not something that makes me see Tasky as sincere with that vote.

[Tasky]

The thing that sells me on Tasky more likely being scum is based on meta. Tasky usually says a lot of stuff to qualify his moves, but in that post above, he voted Shattered Viewpoint based on liking your post, Untrod Tripod. Forgoing saying a lot of stuff to qualify his vote; that's not something that makes me see Tasky as sincere with that vote.

wait... on what meta are you relying on exactly?
btw, I posted against SV before UT did... hist post just convinced me definitely to vote

[Tazaro]

Well, aren't you a wall-of-texter, Tasky? And what about UT's post convinced you to vote?

[Untrod Tripod]

The thing that sells me on Tasky more likely being scum is based on meta. Tasky usually says a lot of stuff to qualify his moves, but in that post above, he voted Shattered Viewpoint based on liking your post, Untrod Tripod. Forgoing saying a lot of stuff to qualify his vote; that's not something that makes me see Tasky as sincere with that vote.

wait... on what meta are you relying on exactly?
btw, I posted against SV before UT did... hist post just convinced me definitely to vote

um...that post was about Espeonage...

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Magma: For as long as you still consider me Cognitive Dissonance with your confirmation bias, I will not reply to your irrelevancy.

So you are going to take your ball and go home, huh. How quaint. Then again if you can’t counter my points this is the only thing you can do.

Also, Magna, in response to your assertion about me being an early-game voter for Tasky and using that to draw some kind of line between me and Tasky, I would have to say that I voted for him because I thought he would be a foamy-mouthed crazed vote-hopper. He stated a fair and intelligent defense of his strategy and since then I've (rather vocally, I might add) been of the opinion that his behavior, which has been used as evidence that he's scum, seems pro-town to me. So I unvoted him. End of story.

Declare it the end of story if you wish. Your explanation fits quite well, as I explained, with the kind of behaviour scum-buddies tend to have towards one-another. So you'll stay on my radar.

I must say I'd really dislike this post on day 1 since I really had the feeling ACM was scum. But since ACM flipped town, I think this post is somehow pro-town. Scum wouldn't pull a townie out of the dirt in a situation where they are looking scummy.

Actually scum have every reason to support the position that a Townie who appears scummy is Town. It’s called positioning building Town cred. If ACM comes under fire and is lynched they can say “I didn’t think he was scummy” and attack those Town on the wagon. Your position that scum ‘wouldn’t’ do something is WIFOM.

They would either defend me outright to get towncred, or attack me one way or another.

More WIFOM. Also, doesn’t this directly contradict your assertion made in the previous statement?

were those questions really necessary? are you sure you didn't just want to make nhammen look stupid?

Yes the questions were absolutely necessary! Nhammen replaced into a slot I had a huge scum-read on. I needed to get a read fairly quick on him as the end of day was approaching. The questions and our back and forth gave me the information I needed.

what exactly is your conclusion from all your vote count analysis?

Do you understand the point of a vote-count analysis? It gave me two discrete sets of players in whom I think I we will find the majority if not all of the scum. Which set the scum likely lie in is driven by your alignment.

@Tasky

– What is your opinion of Tripod’s 525?

Ok now. I am harbouring a few secret reads. At the moment there are 5 scum. Two are big reads and one backs the pother up. Chevre. Prove to me that the other reads are the ones to follow.

Now that Chevre flipped Town you need to be providing this list of ‘secret reads’ pronto.

@Redtail

– Explain how the following are scummy in relation to 552 –

1. Vote-hopping – I see what you are explaining there but many players on site use that style of play effectively in scum-hunting.
2. Being willing to question players other than a top suspect (who would be your current vote)
3. Having a view of players that shifts as new posts are made?

@Shattered

– After your absence and repeated ‘I’ll catch-up’ posts 554 is what you have?

[Tazaro]

The thing that sells me on Tasky more likely being scum is based on meta. Tasky usually says a lot of stuff to qualify his moves, but in that post above, he voted Shattered Viewpoint based on liking your post, Untrod Tripod. Forgoing saying a lot of stuff to qualify his vote; that's not something that makes me see Tasky as sincere with that vote.

wait... on what meta are you relying on exactly?
btw, I posted against SV before UT did... hist post just convinced me definitely to vote

um...that post was about Espeonage...

Yeah, Tasky needs to explain himself.

[Espeonage]

Ok my original case on Tasky was to do with his over eagerness. In his defence he made a point that he hates being scum. If that were a true statement then my case on him loses its original point and becomes weaker. Tasky's iso #18 was the one I was looking for. In it he answers his own questions which backs up his case against my first point. So yep holding to my unvote.

[nopointinactingup]

@Magma: For as long as you still consider me Cognitive Dissonance with your confirmation bias, I will not reply to your irrelevancy.

So you are going to take your ball and go home, huh. How quaint. Then again if you can’t counter my points this is the only thing you can do.

No I'd gladly counter anything I see relevant

@Tasky,Redtail: I misunderstood.

[Tasky]

Well, aren't you a wall-of-texter, Tasky? And what about UT's post convinced you to vote?

I don't understand your point... yeah, I am a wall-o'-texter, so what?
just look at that post... he summarizes the whole SV behavior. SV has done nothing so far but jump back and forth between me and Chevre, without giving any explanation at all.

The thing that sells me on Tasky more likely being scum is based on meta. Tasky usually says a lot of stuff to qualify his moves, but in that post above, he voted Shattered Viewpoint based on liking your post, Untrod Tripod. Forgoing saying a lot of stuff to qualify his vote; that's not something that makes me see Tasky as sincere with that vote.

wait... on what meta are you relying on exactly?
btw, I posted against SV before UT did... hist post just convinced me definitely to vote

um...that post was about Espeonage...

? what post are you referring to? your post definitely was on SV...

what exactly is your conclusion from all your vote count analysis?

Do you understand the point of a vote-count analysis? It gave me two discrete sets of players in whom I think I we will find the majority if not all of the scum. Which set the scum likely lie in is driven by your alignment.

honestly, no... I didn't understand that... how exactly do you get those sets? could you elucidate a little?

@Tasky

– What is your opinion of Tripod’s 525?

I don't think it's about the content. It looks like he wants to make us think about the night-kills, which isn't bad, I think.
What do you think? why are you asking me about that post in particular?

[Tazaro]

@Tasky, this is the post that I thought you were talking about when you voted for SV:

Ok, sorry about the delay. I've had a large number of family issues crop up along with the concerns of moving across the country for grad school to deal with. But I should be posting more now that some of that is cleared up.

I will be rolling out a couple of larger posts, but I have been bugged by something for a while: Esp's voting patterns. It's been spaced out enough over the course of the game along with a fair number of largely one-line/contentless posts along the way that it's only really obvious in ISO. So, what I'm going to do now is post every single one of Esp's posts that contain a vote:

Chihuahua is Town. there is no escaping that fact. He is so textbook newb it isn't funny. I have played way to many Newbie games in the past not very long to know what I am talking about in this department. Two of my past three games have had players all most exactly the same. All have turned up town. Anyway nhammen gets a pre-replacement tick but noone is confirmed yet.

Now. Tasky is scum. I have seen it so many times when wishy washy voting is the explaination for what he has done. It is worse than that. Now unless tasky is a noob which he doesn't come accross as then he is obv scum. That was early day one scum nerves. Now if he were a newbie than a non newbie game would be enough to entice this reaction. He seemed to be so much more into the game than he should have and seemed to me to be grasping for purchase on a vote wether it was the RVS or not.
So for now. VOTE: Tasky

UNVOTE: Tasky
VOTE: Chevre

Ok now I understand that there is a large amount of confirmation bias here. In light of nhammens last little tib bit on me for the future this may look bad but I propose a derail of the chevre wagon and a move back to Tasky. i still think tasky is scum and should he not be my whole case on Chevre falls apart and I wouldn't ote for her again.

UNVOTE: Chevre
VOTE: Tasky

Wait hours?
oh.
UNVOTE: Tasky
VOTE: Chevre

Eh I give up.
VOTE: Tasky

UNVOTE: Tasky
VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint
@ Tasky: I'll answer your case. btw, ^that isn't to do with you. I realised I have a reason to unvote you as well. I just need to go do an iso and find a post.

Seriously? If anyone in this game is tunneling, it's you. I feel like, at this point, we really should insist that you provide a little more reasoning with your votes. So, uh...why are you voting SV? Why are you SO SURE that Tasky deserves votes?

Also, Magna, in response to your assertion about me being an early-game voter for Tasky and using that to draw some kind of line between me and Tasky, I would have to say that I voted for him because I thought he would be a foamy-mouthed crazed vote-hopper. He stated a fair and intelligent defense of his strategy and since then I've (rather vocally, I might add) been of the opinion that his behavior, which has been used as evidence that he's scum, seems pro-town to me. So I unvoted him. End of story.

unvote Espeonage

I guess. I'm not convinced that Lemon wasn't scum, but I'll at least cool it on his replacement for the time being. I'm not sure how I feel about this Tasky bandwagon that's formed. I don't really get a scum reading from him, I just get an over-exuberant townie read on him. I felt, reading his posts, that he just thought the best way to catch scum is to get everyone to say as much as possible. I think that's a pretty reasonable thing to want to do. When the town said "I'm not sure why this particular exercize is helpful", he said "ah, fuck it, then" for that particular question and left it at that.

I'm just not convinced that he deserves to be at L-2 for that

. That's all.

Though I'm not one of Tasky's attacker, I'm not liking this post defending him.

what exactly don't you like?

The X marks the underlined words.

So...you don't like that I don't think Tasky is scum?