Mafia 1013 - Prozacs Basic Theme - Game has ENDED

[Flameaxe]

Why do you think Jack is scum ?

Is this directed at me? I'd hope not considering I didn't state that I thought he was.

[Anon]

Im going to bed right now but I really think Flameaxe is scum here. Let me check some games in the old forum for reference.

[Anon]

ebwop

FA, are you implying having a gut/meta read is not a valid reason to think someone is town?

[Flameaxe]

ebwop

FA, are you implying having a gut/meta read is not a valid reason to think someone is town?

Not exactly. I'm fine with a gut feeling, as long as you can show me something to reinforce that feeling. I (and anyone else in this game) has very little reason to trust your gut. Do I use my gut when playing? Yes. Do I hold it to much weight? No.

Now, meta reasons are a whole different story. I believe meta reasons are rarely a strong form of a read. I know from experience that I've tried to play differently in different games, and I can only assume I'm not the only one. Who's to say someone isn't playing different from their meta to throw the town off? It's just too shaky in terms of reasoning to me.

[Jack]

Meta is very very useful. But only the "I've played with him twice before..." meta, not so much the "I checked a couple of his other games..." meta.

[Raivann]

Why do you think Jack is scum ?

Is this directed at me? I'd hope not considering I didn't state that I thought he was.

No, it was directed at Llama, your scumbuddy. In regards to his flailing.

[Flameaxe]

Why do you think Jack is scum ?

Is this directed at me? I'd hope not considering I didn't state that I thought he was.

No, it was directed at Llama, your scumbuddy. In regards to his flailing.

Oh wow, what a brash statement here. I think someone is holding back his opinions of this game.

[Raivann]

Also, Jack's being annoying, evasive and got pissed off for no discernible reason (that would be being defensive, would it not?). The last two, are in my opinion scum moves. I voted him because I didn't lose anything (We aren't anywhere near lynching time as far as I can tell) and I wanted to make it clear that I didn't like his actions. BTW, has has answered the question yet? I mean, I'm pretty sure I know what his answer will be, but I still want to win the fight.

Scummy post here by llama. It reads like he knows he made a bad vote on Jack. He says they are scum moves, then makes excuses for his vote.
He's Flailing.

[llamaeatataco]

Excuses? They aren't excuses, they were factors in my decision making process. I know I made a vote on Jack that was based mostly on emotion, but there were some actual reasons in there as well.

No, it was directed at Llama, your scumbuddy. In regards to his flailing.

Because that isn't a totally unbacked statement that was obviously meant to incite an emotional response.

I see no flailing here. I see myself giving valid reasons for my actions, and I see you attempting to make up-

Well shit. I do see flailing. I see you flailing for an example of me flailing. Nice move.

[Budja]

@Flameaxe, I think Llama is scum. His vote choices haven't looked very natural, especially the first. That covers everything really.
Jack is probably town, the gambit (I assumed it was a gambit) with mallow sealed that for me.
Blackberry is town, gut, "meta searching attitude".
Fishy's theory views are pretty much identical to my own. The BB wagon discussion is (or should be) over. It was a stepping stone. leaning town on his actual alignment.
Not happy with Coug, slightly mixed feelings. Possibly partner to Llama.
Null the rest.

[StrangerCoug]

oh hellz nah man, I am lazy. I'm just a little overzealous in addition to being lazy, which is quite possibly the strangest combination of traits I've come across.

*attempts to make heads and tails out of this*
*fails*

Excuses? They aren't excuses, they were factors in my decision making process. I know I made a vote on Jack that was based mostly on emotion, but there were some actual reasons in there as well.

Help us find them please.

[xvart]

Sorry everyone. Have been super busy with doctor's appointments and work. I'll read through the contributions and have something tonight or tomorrow.

I'll also need some V/LA coming up as I am having surgery a week from today.

V/LA: 7/10 - 7/13

(variable depending on how doped up I get on painkillers).

xvart.

[Fishythefish]

@llama: there is no contradiction between me thinking that openness is townie and that discussing your own playstyle is scummy. I think scum tend to think about their playstyle more, and so discuss it more. It's about

what

they are being open about. To give an example of why there is no contradiction, scumslips are in a way being open about your thoughts. They are not townie.

Anyway, my argument on BB is irrelevant to why I think you are scum. I'm not going to bother arguing with you about it any further; it doesn't feature significantly in my read on BB any more. Why I think you are scum is that you strawmanned that argument - after I had pointed out the same strawman - without bothering to reread my argument. Regardless of the validity of that argument, that is not a townie action.

Why is it you no longer think I'm scum? You had some pretty strong opinions on that score - including calling me a liar and saying I had completely contradicted myself - and I haven't said anything that's seemed to convince you otherwise. You unvoted me, and voted Jack for being "annoying, evasive and getting pissed off". Of those, only "evasive" seems likely to be a scumtell (though in my experience a poor one applied to Jack). Excusing your vote by saying you aren't losing anything because we're not close to lynching does not sit well with me - you are undermining your own read and vote.

[Jack]

Sorry...I am having a really hard time getting a feel for this game. Perhaps later.

[mallowgeno]

I'm not ready to accept this claim as true. Why are you outing yourself so early, and why are you suggesting that mallowgeno is a miller?

Claiming cop is only bad if there is a roleblocker. Mafia may have a day roleblocker (weird) but we probably have a doc. Even if we don't, mafia may be too scared to try to kill a cop until the doc has been killed.

[mallowgeno]

Reads on current players:
Blackberry-Town
Budja-Undecided
Fishythefish-Leaning Scum
Flameaxe-Calls me oblivious but I still think town
Jack-Scum!
llamaeatataco-Leaning Town
mallowgeno-Town
Mitsuru Kirijo-Leaning Scum
Raivann-Neutral
StrangerCoug-Leaning Scum
xvart-Neutral

[Mitsuru Kirijo]

How odd that the majority of people who consider you scummy are on your scum or leaning scum list.

[Flameaxe]

Reads on current players:
Blackberry-Town
Budja-Undecided
Fishythefish-Leaning Scum
Flameaxe-Calls me oblivious but I still think town
Jack-Scum!
llamaeatataco-Leaning Town
mallowgeno-Town
Mitsuru Kirijo-Leaning Scum
Raivann-Neutral
StrangerCoug-Leaning Scum
xvart-Neutral

I called you oblivious to anything regarding 70, and you still seem to be holding that up just fine. *cough*

[Fishythefish]

@mallow: please expand on why you think people are scummy. Particularly Jack, since that's your strongest read, but also myself, MK, and SC.

[llamaeatataco]

@Coug: Go read page 7, I'm pretty sure I posted them there. Too lazy to quote.

Anyway, my argument on BB is irrelevant to why I think you are scum. I'm not going to bother arguing with you about it any further; it doesn't feature significantly in my read on BB any more. Why I think you are scum is that you strawmanned that argument - after I had pointed out the same strawman - without bothering to reread my argument. Regardless of the validity of that argument, that is not a townie action.

Why is it you no longer think I'm scum? You had some pretty strong opinions on that score - including calling me a liar and saying I had completely contradicted myself - and I haven't said anything that's seemed to convince you otherwise. You unvoted me, and voted Jack for being "annoying, evasive and getting pissed off". Of those, only "evasive" seems likely to be a scumtell (though in my experience a poor one applied to Jack). Excusing your vote by saying you aren't losing anything because we're not close to lynching does not sit well with me - you are undermining your own read and vote.

Hmm. I actually like this post by you, but I still think you are 'likely scum.' Please don't try and pull things out of the situation that aren't there. You are allowed to have multiple scum reads, are you not?

Also, that was some nice BS. Yes, I did strawman you slightly, but it hardly made a difference. Besides, the 'summary' of your argument was meant more for humorous purposes than serious ones.

Regardless of the validity of that argument, that is not a townie action.

Yes, it certainly does seem to be an anti-town action in hindsight. But is it a scum action? Not at all.

So I went back and re-skimmed Jack's iso in the one game we've played together, and he was being kind of abrasive there as well. I probably should have done this immediately... (he was town in that game, by the way.)

Mallow needs to quit being lame. tbh he's surpassed Fishy as my top scum read, so I will

unvote, vote: Mallow

This is mostly due the the last page or two. Fishy's still wrong, but I don't think he's scum wrong anymore.

[Blackberry]

Your defense of BB is unfounded and its ilogical coming from a townie entity that early in the game. You even decide to attack another player based on his accusations against BB. Yet some posts later you agree that the attacks can make sense. Flifflop FTL.

I don't like this. I disagree completely. A town seeing what looks like mafia jumping on an easy target would totally interfere.

* Why do you say it is illogical?

* Why do you say it is unfounded?

-----

Yes and No

My strategy was make myself vulnerable, see who attacks me as an "easy target" and make judgments from there. Although I think I did accomplish making me look vulnerable, no one actually attacked me for what I expected them to attack me for (the non-conforming thing).

I did not set a deliberate of a trap as I have in the past (I would refer to it as a reaction test, trap makes it sound like it is only meant for mafia, where in this case, it is meant to see who will jump the gun early enough and make accusations, who I suspect would be mafia).

What is the non conforming thing ?

I'm not quite sure I'm buying what your selling here. So you make yourself appear an easy target how?

I'm not trying to "sell" anything. I made myself an easy target by being vulenrable and exposing myself and how I think and how I am not the "typical" player The non-conforming thing is in my post on the first page.

That's not what I meant, I don't find that scummy. It actually gets old repeating things three times, I agree.
But you don't strike me as a "lazy" player, more like fakeraging flailing scum.

Flailing is a word I see scum use to make town people look bad.

-----

Flameaxe is town. And I think he is smart based on one of his recent posts. The fact Anon is trying to go after Flameaxe in a recent posts only makes me suspect Anon more.

...

I am leaving my vote on Jack until he answers my question or he is replaced. Him being uncooperative is not going to help us at all and it's hard to get a read on him. It's really pissing me off.

POROCHAZ:

Is it possible to get Jack replaced on the fact he isn't being cooperative, and being uncooperative works against one's win condition either way, thus, he is not playing by the rules and working towards his win condition.

[Jack]

unvote, vote:llama

don't like his mallow vote.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm not ready to accept this claim as true. Why are you outing yourself so early, and why are you suggesting that mallowgeno is a miller?

Claiming cop is only bad if there is a roleblocker. Mafia may have a day roleblocker (weird) but we probably have a doc. Even if we don't, mafia may be too scared to try to kill a cop until the doc has been killed.

This is too much setup/nightkill speculation for my liking. For balance reasons, there usually isn't both a cop and a doctor, and even when there are both the Mafia's often given a roleblocker. Why do you think the possible F11 setups are what they are?

I would also think that it'd actually be a little worse for an outed cop without a roleblocker or doctor as it increases the claimed cop's chances of a nightkill. If the cop is wide of the mark with his suspicions and sufficiently scummy, they might not even bother so as to cast suspicion on the cop—maybe even set up a counterclaim instead.

@Coug: Go read page 7, I'm pretty sure I posted them there.

Two of your three given reasons for him there are crap. Being annoying is not a tell and being "pissed off for no discernible reason" needs some backing to it to be one, which I don't see in the post in question. The evasiveness is valid.

[mallowgeno]

The reason I think Jack is scum is because of the way he keeps posting. He keeps changing his vote and he's not really giving any reasons for his changes. Also he claimed a cop that got a guilty on me, which shouldn't be possible.

[mallowgeno]

And sorry about not being that in-depth with my posts. I'm in 5 games right now plus some off-topic games and I will never do it again. I only think I can handle 2.