Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[Mighty Orbots]

What do you think of LMP flipping zombie?

Well like I said, The Network rolecopped him as Zombie which is why I wanted to blast into Katy today about her Spirit nonsense. But Troll didn't seem to want to go that direction for whatever reason.

I had a theory in our personal QT that game events might possibly be changing his rolename/alignment. Like attempted kills dropping him from town to 3rd party to scum or something. Troll was skeptical at first but seems to leaning that way now.

Regardless, with ABR dead we'll soon have a much clearer picture about the whole cult thing (I don't expect ABR would completely make up the census power if he's town) which is why I want to put it on the back burner for now. If he comes up scum then it was all probably just a massive (and effective) distraction.

@ MO -- Could be that Tar figured he couldn't keep a secret like that up for long given that you had private access to him. Doubly true if recruits lose worship votes such that the chance of being found out via tech is great. Maybe he was doing damage control.

This seems awfully farfetched. Again, ABR will shed some light here. (This is why ABR was such a good kill btw)

And people fake PRs for stupid reasons all the time.

Preview edit:

Is there a reason we're not lynching TNM?

Uhhhhhhh there was a reason but I can't remember what it is. I'd have to go search our QT for it.

[Faraday]

iirc troll doesn't think a doc item makes sense for the mafia + some sort of town read based on other things.

[Fate]

Something about protecting the godfather but not protecting him the night he died or something.

[Iecerint]

I'd damage control like that if I suddenly lost all my abilities. Granted, I don't have access to what it is that Tar exactly said, so I can't comment on whether his manner was consistent with that.

Edit: Ah, right -- TNM being mafia would make it too hard for Tar and DTM to win. I buy that.

[Mighty Orbots]

That's the one. Thanks for that, I'm a lazy bastard and didn't want to search for it.

[Iecerint]

Katy is the most obvious CL pick to me due to the LMP slot interactions, but she's needed to find the cult based on her (fake?)claim, so it's no good if we're mistaken. Possible slip in that she claimed her ability wasn't critical or something; could be an attempt to look like she was willing to take one for the team without thinking critically about how her role could actually help town given presumed circumstances (e.g. rolecops needed to find cult). So that's a dilemma.

Ooba, presuming that the CL is someone who isn't me, who else makes the math work?

[Fate]

Katy can't be cult leader. We went over this.

[Iecerint]

Teach again.

[Iecerint]

Short version, please -- similar to my distillation of the argument for why TNM can't be mafia.

[ooba]

Ooba, presuming that the CL is someone who isn't me, who else makes the math work?

Math says nothing about the cult leader.

My theory is that cult recruits become worshipless. Says nothing about CL. I think its some mortal controlling zombies. If its a cult of Aethists, its Katy since she started out as a no worship person.

I'd be surprised if it is anybody other than {you, VV, Katy, Dram} though.

[Iecerint]

And nvm @ ooba, in that CL has nothing to do with the math, so.

If you happen to have a reactionshift list, that would be fine, though.

[ooba]

Oh Faraday too although his play has been protown and all I have is him finding LMP protown after D1 (but he did claim that was due to the vig)..

I found the reaction shift only for you but I didn't really go through it for the others cause I thought them shifting their thoughts on you was blatant ..

[Iecerint]

I think it's unlikely to be dram. Roles are typically built around themes, and Limbo is flavorful enough on its own. Unless Limbo *IS* the cult recruitment method (unlikely), it's impossible.

Katy belongs to a god group. Also, all the flips so far have flipped as their claimed role, though I suppose cult may be different. The atheist flavor works for *a* cult, but not the hypothetical one that Katy leads (unless CL is the only player with a fakeclaim, or there's something particular about SG's version of Anubis).

VV I could see as a non-town slot. Why does he make it onto your CL list specifically, though?

[Iecerint]

Do you think my counterpoints about dram and Katy are mistaken? Assuming so, why?

[ooba]

I think it's unlikely to be dram. Roles are typically built around themes, and Limbo is flavorful enough on its own. Unless Limbo *IS* the cult recruitment method (unlikely), it's impossible.

Katy belongs to a god group. Also, all the flips so far have flipped as their claimed role, though I suppose cult may be different. The atheist flavor works for *a* cult, but not the hypothetical one that Katy leads (unless CL is the only player with a fakeclaim, or there's something particular about SG's version of Anubis).

VV I could see as a non-town slot. Why does he make it onto your CL list specifically, though?

It's more process of elimination than anything else. But for VV he's been lurking and generally very non-committal.
2. Faraday
5. dramonic
14. VasudeVa (replaces Elscouta)
25. AdumbroDeus (Replaces CryMeARiver)
26. Iecerint
20. Katy

No I actually but your counterpoint against dram (in fact it was one of the things which I mentioned in my first who cannot be a CL post). But Tar moving away from dram on weak reasoning makes me think again - or maybe he did it because he wanted to vote Katy, the role cop.

Your Katy counterpoint is only valid if you believe Tar's spec that the CL is a mortal.

Hmm.. My Parama=Mafia read is only strengthened by this day's reactions. However, that must mean that he knows VV was not redirected by Mafia. Hence VV must have been targetting SB during the night. Let me read VV again ...

[Parama]

Ooba, if you're going to make assumptions based on other assumptions, the initial assumption needs to be correct first.

[ooba]

Ooba, if you're going to make assumptions based on other assumptions, the initial assumption needs to be correct first.

Probably. But you were never too clear on why VV ... And do you think he's most likely cult or mafia?

[Iecerint]

Niki told me in QT that he thought Parama and I were non-mafia on the basis of things we have said about flipped players. CL is still possible for Parama (or Niki could just be wrong about the other bit). Fits with low activity level and that his powers (I think?) have yet to get us any information.

The point with Katy isn't that she's a god and not a mortal (which fails if Tar's spec fails), but that she's a god and therefore presumably not an atheist. It also doesn't hold if we're in a funky universe where Anubis herds atheists, or is an atheist (I dunno SG flavor), or if she has a fakeclaim and isn't Anubis at all.

Note that I don't necessarily think the cult is an atheist cult; I think it's Zombies. I only mentioned that because you mentioned that.

Anubis making Zombies would appear to fit deathgod flavor, but, again, I dun really know SG flavor. Tar implied it fit IIRC.

Still want Fate to remind me why Katy can't be CL.

[Kinetic]

Due to my inability to post a timely Vote Count I'm going to give a mini-extension of 3 days. The new deadline is August 7th. Further extensions are unlikely, but I may give up to one additional week if I deem it necessary.

[DTMaster]

Um I was confirmed lyncher -> town. Why would I make up my PR? I was a two shot vig. I used up my powers. My PR are linked to my powers. Thus I don't need to PR anymore.

[ooba]

Um I was confirmed lyncher -> town. Why would I make up my PR? I was a two shot vig. I used up my powers. My PR are linked to my powers. Thus I don't need to PR anymore.

You don't find your QT important anymore?

Honestly, I am extremely unsure about Iecerint but I don't see anybody else supporting me on that lynch.
VV might be a good choice but its better he be asked to use his power on somebody scummy tonight and we lynch him tomorrow.
Don't want to lynch any of the claimed role cops ...

Dram is a good lynch - one which will happen I guess ...

[Faraday]

i'll help you lynch iec if you want.

[Fate]

VV target Iec tonight, double lynch tomorrow...

???

Profit?

[Faraday]

Hmm not a bad idea. I do think VV's probably not mafia at this stage though. He's possibly cult I guess? Just like Iec rit.

[ooba]

VV target Iec tonight, double lynch tomorrow...

???

Profit?

Doesn't that argument hold true for VV targetting dram too?