Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[Mina]

EBWOP: replace "all our theorizing" with "a lot of our theorizing."

[ooba]

Fine , you want to move towards a lynch , lets lynch Iece.

@DTM: Drams vanilla now - he's lost his power ...

[DTMaster]

Oh right that means that Dram can't be a cult disabler(reread claim). It does however mean that if a Dram issue comes up we can kill him at any time. It also means not very likely cult since his actions are provable via limbo.

[DTMaster]

Ice, we are going over the Judas theory again. It is possible that both Kathy and Mina's role cop are accurate (see Spyrex Delurium/Delight role). We already know that Orto/xite/LMP was recruited. The closest parellel to a cult role is that te recruiter is the main hypnotist and he had a secondary recruit( see the revival power of the original recruit). It's more likely the person who recruited Orto is the cult leader.

Otherwise I'm operating under the assumption of Kathy / Mina being correct. We do know that the hypnotist theory is very plausable ( via Tar's soul claim).

[Katy]

How does the same person making the kill increase risk of being outed in any way? It's like your setting up a reason as to why Mafia's killer would switch tonight ...

Well, I am assuming that I will be redirected tonight because of what happened with the kill last night. If I am redirected and someone who is not the target is killed with an energy beam, it rules me out as the person who is doing it. If I'm ruled out, then there are fewer possibilities for that killer.

As far as the hypnotist goes, then that takes away a lot of the usefulness of ABR's power. It makes the most sense to me that the mod stuck that power in to give town some leverage against the cult. It just seems like a power that was directly meant to counteract something like a cult.

Daykilling cult?

Yeah that's me baby.

--points Kathy.

Why not? Sometimes cult gets a kill once they recruit. Maybe you get a daykill if you get a successful recruit.

Frankly, I find Anubis a better fit for causing Zombies (recovered Ancient healing device with proven zombification power in SG-1 canon, creating Kull Warriors, the list goes on...).

I wish I could create zombies, that would be rad. I would have had me a whole army of them by now.

[ooba]

As far as the hypnotist goes, then that takes away a lot of the usefulness of ABR's power. It makes the most sense to me that the mod stuck that power in to give town some leverage against the cult. It just seems like a power that was directly meant to counteract something like a cult.

The census was there to tell people that a cult exists - which counteracts the cult. The worship mechanic is our leverage against the cult - it tells me exactly who was recruited ..

[Iecerint]

1. When did Fate claim dayvig? Has he claimed he shot LMP?
2. Was that the first time dram claimed vanilla? If not, did he claim his abilities were *lost* last time, or did he only claim being vanilla?
3. Dram having been made vanilla is not provable. He could just refrain from putting people into Limbo. I agree that he's not CL, though, because then Mina would be cult, and Mina got LMP killed, and I think LMP was recruited cult.
4. If the cult is a cult that can only have at most 2 members (CL and mentee), the cult is probably Katy-LMP. In such an event, LMP's role wouldn't have ever changed from Benevolent Spirit to Zombie, so Katy would've been lying.

[Iecerint]

Note, however, that such a cult being the cult in this game leaves us with mysteries of why the hell people's abilities are going away. LMP+Tar is already more than one recruit.

[Fate]

I claimed day vig after I shot LMP.

[Fate]

ReMinaCult:

Uhhh why would I need to give reasons of why I'm not the cult leader? That's your job, not mine.

[Fate]

EDWOP: If you're with town that is****

[dramonic]

3. Dram having been made vanilla is not provable. He could just refrain from putting people into Limbo. I agree that he's not CL, though, because then Mina would be cult, and Mina got LMP killed, and I think LMP was recruited cult.

So Pom died in limbo for no reason at all, all the while Tar shot me and failed, simultaneously.
Go it.

[Mina]

Fate, I'm still waiting for you to explicitly state your focus actions throughout the game.

[Iecerint]

Do we know that Pom's death had anything to do with Limbo?

At any rate, if her death was indeed attached to Limbo, that would make it more likely, not less, that your abilities are intact, since twice as many kill targets would have resulted in her death.

[dramonic]

If I'm targetted for a kill my limboed person dies instead. Didn't you read my claim all those pages ago?
Where's your twice as many coming from?

[ooba]

Since Iecerint hinted that there wasn't any mathematical reasoning:

Point 1:

Tar claimed he was worship stripped and "the flavor behind me losing my worship vote was very clearly that my soul was stolen.". He however does not mention any other details.
- Lets say this is a mafia power. First off, where are the other uses of this power. I mean why didn't people tell others that they were worship stripped on the previous days..
- This is clearly a hypnotist style recruitment. What tar hasn't told you is that he now has an alternate wincon other than the town one condition and can now win in two possible ways.

If its just soul-loss why haven't the others claimed yet .. Tar just claimed some bits so that he'll be believed ..

---

Point 2:

JCA was off by 5 votes on N4
a) Lets say it was Mafia-ites who were not voting so that I couldn't focus on them properly. But the only other 4 voter, Fate, knew I had a town read on him. So to not worship only puts suspicion on him.
b) Therefore, Fate was either worship blocked by mafia or my cult theory holds good.
- But if Fate was worship blocked, why didn't Mafia use this skill on all other nights? After all, there were no excess claims.
c) Hence, Fate was stripped off his worship vote and he did not declare it.

---

Point 3:

Which lead me to the other N4 missing 1 vote. The declared 1 vote missing people are:
Albatross + TNM + AD + Parama
- The fact that Albatross didn't vote on N2 : "Day 2 I didn't worship anyone as I didn't particularly care at that point" led me to him being the D2 recruit.

---

Point 4:

Change in reactions to Iece. Just read all the players and their change in reactions towards Iece around the time the worship mathematics point to them being recruited.

[Iecerint]

@ dram -- Actually, I totally forgot that you claimed you'd lose your abilities after your limbo'd party was killed. So nevermind that.

@ ooba -- I said (not hinted) you hadn't shown the mathematical reasoning (not that it didn't exist).

Now that I see them spelled out that way -- you may be right about some or even most of those points, but I know I'm not CL, so I'm going to approach them with a little skepticism.

[DTMaster]

You do realize that if Dram was mafia, his role would be broken if he could limbo someone every day if all the town kills were neutralize? He could win 1 v 100000000 Town VTs and auto win. Finally, if Dram can get someone into limbo, we'd see it. It's kind of noticable. That and we have a claimed RB that can stop Dram if he's lying. And a Claimed Day Vig. And 2 claimed redirects that can redirect Dram to himself. Oh any thing else?

Tar shot Dram, and Pom died who was in Limbo. Dude, what did you not get about Tar shooting Dram with S_B's item don't you understand in the claimed night action Ice? You're actions are super stretching this

[DTMaster]

3. Dram having been made vanilla is not provable. He could just refrain from putting people into Limbo. I agree that he's not CL, though, because then Mina would be cult, and Mina got LMP killed, and I think LMP was recruited cult.

3. Dram having been made vanilla is not provable. He could just refrain from putting people into Limbo. I agree that he's not CL, though, because then Mina would be cult, and Mina got LMP killed, and I think LMP was recruited cult.

Holy crap did Ice + Mind Fart = massive scum hunting slip.

[DTMaster]

Err I wanted to quote this: EBWOP:

@ dram -- Actually, I totally forgot that you claimed you'd lose your abilities after your limbo'd party was killed. So nevermind that.

[DTMaster]

I'm trying to decipher how much of a smoke screen Ice is, and if he's really the cult leader.

[Iecerint]

No, I don't really understand the claimed night actions. I feel like everyone's in a network of daytalk and nighttalk, which I don't have anymore because all the Norse people are dead. It's part of why I was contributing less today. I picked it up a little in the past day or so because ooba suspects me, and the case is as compelling a case as can be imagined in a circumstance where no cult have flipped whatsoever, so I figure the responsible thing to do is to try to be helpful. It's hard to defend myself against what amounts to other players' behavior changing, though; as I think I stated earlier, I think what actually happened is that whenever players have said they want to lynch me, MO has said he has a town read/weak town read on me, and they sort of let it go.

Dunno what slip you think you see there. I forgot that dram lost his ability when his limbo'd person was killed, which totally threw my logic off (because it was based on a faulty premise).

I make detailed cases on people when I'm scum. Like, something similar to that SSSB/FF link I thought I saw in Linked Chaos mafia (where I was town, for any 3rd parties reading this), but as scum. You can read the end of Fables to get an idea or what I'm talking about, or the end of Lay of Leithian, to get examples of that behavior. I also did it in Disgaea 1. [/self-meta]

[totallynotmafia]

hers my drunk questions:

@Faraday: could you plz give your item to somebody else=, pretty plz???
@ dramonic: hnow much cultists could a cult leader recruit if a cult leader could recruit cultistys?
@Fate: RARAR RAARR RARRR RARR ACT SCUMMY RARRR RARR!???
@obba: could yuo please tell faraday to give his item to somebody else? pretty plzz??? (he wont listen to me)@
@Mighty orbosts: so whats your M.O.?? get it???
@Parama: remember that time we were scum budiies?? if you're scum you should tell me i promise i wont tell anyonme!!!!
@vasudave: what happened to the "i can take anyone i want to lylo"??? havent heard u say anyiothing more on that, HMMM???
@Nikanor: werent you supposed to be voting for parama today??? thats right, im like an elaphant, i gestate for 22 months!!!!
@ MinaL how do you solve a problem like

Maria

Mina
@Katy: ill be honest I havent read any of your posts so i dont have a questison
@Tarhurlinder: dude, wheres my tar?? no seriously isnt that just a big coincidence that the GF happened to die?? i would vig you if i could. and by vig I mean sex.
@albatross: so why did you give up your item??? HMMM???
\@Icerint: asl?
@DTMastter: Fuck? srs. so why arebnt you swearing anyomore?????

:Mod: does my butt look big in this??

[frayed]

i'm 12 years old and what is this.

[Faraday]

Why do you want me to give my item away?