Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[ooba]

@Mina
- I always re-read the game at night and see who prob scum are. I had AdumbroDeus, Parama, VasudeVa, dramonic as the probables.
- LMP was a non-mafia read due to his D1 lynch. In fact, I would be shocked if he turned up mafia. Your zombie rolecop info came out a bit late - that was the point when I started thinking about cults again.
- Reg. Katy, while the you\dram theory does have its merits, I now have an alternate theory as to who the mafia might be. I promise I'll share this in the night - do not want to cloud the thread with multiple theories at the same time. Think it is in town's interests to concentrate on cult right now.
- If you did not notice, I also shifted my theory to a day-recruit-cult since it made most sense with a Tar claim. Katy's behavior can be attributable to cult based on this.
- Mina, also

the lynchpin of my theory is that recruits lose worship votes.

Without that, none of the analysis makes sense. I also think all the worship votes tally with my theory. It is a good mechanic so that it does not fall into the "oh. cult could have recruited anyone today so its like random lynching" - If we miss hitting the cult leader today, we might have to structure our worship to be able to work recruits on the next day.
- Already gave this to Tar once but here's my meta:
Weeds Mafia (Scum loss)
Victorian Vampire (Scum win)
Star Wars Mafia (Scum win)
Tit for Tat Mafia (Town loss)
Greek Mythology Mafia (Town loss but for all purposes a win)
These are the relevant games since I took a two year break and I don't think my older games will map to my new one that much.

@Iece
- You forget that I have also played Lord of the rings: Ley of Leithian Mafia with you as scum so its just not a one-meta read.
-

ABR's census results are what they are. A hypnotist cult role adds a line saying "You are now part of the hyponotist cult" - the original wincon is still retained until a trigger occurs. Hence ABR's census is perfectly valid since recruit would have still shown up as town.

- Fate's soft-bussed you today - asking "shouldn't we eventually lynch Iece?" isn't the same as voting you and pushing for your lynch aggressively ..

@Alb,@Parama
Your last two posts just solidify my read on both of you

[Parama]

I don't know your read on me.

[Fate]

I think Ooba just called Iecrint my cult leader or something.

YES YES YES

Unvote:
Vote: Iecrint

EPIC CULT LEADER BUS

[Iecerint]

1. Yeah, I did forget. It still holds that that explains Katy's D1 read on me, though. My LoL game was more dissimilar to this than my SA2 game, too, IMO.
2a. That is highly speculative.
2b. You're positing that ABR's census ability was there for a reason other than to track the cult?
3. Yeah, well, I personally can't accurately claim to read Fate, so I can't say much about that. Also, I'd never recruit him this game for precisely that reason, even though we did play a fun game together a bit ago (all while this game was still going on). [/WIFOM or /self-meta or something]

[Beholder]

Day 5, Vote Count 5

Darkness wanes, light yet remains

The remnants continue their exploration into the Core, and with all that happens, perhaps there is nothing to be afraid of after all…

2 Faraday

( 2 )

- totallynotmafia, Vasu
5 dramonic

( 3 )

- Faraday, Albatross, Katy
7 Fate

( 0 )

-
8 ooba

( 0 )

-
9 Mighty Orbots

( 0 )

-
10 Parama

( 0 )

-
12 totallynotmafia

( 0 )

-
14 VasudeVa

( 1 )

- Parama
17 Nikanor

( 0 )

-
18 Mina

( 0 )

-
20 Katy

( 2 )

- Mina, Tar
21 Tarhalindur

( 0 )

-
23 Albatross

( 1 )

- Nikanor
25 AdumbroDeus

( 0 )

-
26 Iecerint

( 2 )

- Ooba, Fate
28 DTMaster

( 0 )

-

Votes Required to Lynch: 9
Not Voting: 5
Deadline: August 4

[Nikanor]

I am unwilling to lynch Iecerint.

Vote: dramonic.

Hell, the deadline is coming up fast and I see no reason to

not

finish dramonic off.

[Iecerint]

Vote: dramonic[/red]

On top of the role set-up spec and lurky behavior, this is probably one of the only times dram can be killed (because his Limbo'd target was already killed).

[Mighty Orbots]

I dunno where Troll is. I thought we had this vote down, guess not.

VOTE: dramonic

I like the part where he goes completely underground while we spin in circles looking for a cult again.

I'd like MO to confirm\elaborate more about this and timing. Whether you confirmed inhim before day results were shown.

You want I should confirm/elaborate what now?

Mighty Orbots, what I'd like to know is who you'd have recruited over the past few nights. Can you honestly say that Xite would have been your top choice on N2?

Hmm, I dunno. I've never played a 3rd party. I guess I'd go for Tar/DTM since they're supposed to be clear once inHim flipped, plus they've been shooting at people which is a plus. Before that I probably would've picked you and Faraday since we were operating under the assumption that the White Council was town at the start of the game.

[Iecerint]

Vote: dramonic

[Parama]

I still like my vote.

[Parama]

*Note that I do not see the reasoning against dramonic at all

[Iecerint]

I'm not totally crazy about it either tbh. Teach me why I should vote VV again?

[Faraday]

@ MO he wants to know if I said UI was directing to Inhim in the qt before day started. I did since..we don't have daytalk.

[ooba]

I think we are much better off trying to kill of the cult leader today. Please respond to
- All cult recruits lose worship votes theory
- Case on Iecerint

Dram's ability is too public for him to be cult. And dram is now powerless so he can be killed anytime. Still think there's a good chance for him to flip Mafia though but he's not the best play for today with a cult around.

My question is if Tar was worshipped stripped and claimed it - and you're assuming its a mafia ability - Why didn't the others? Where did the missing four votes go for N4 worship?

[Iecerint]

It's better to kill CL in an ideal world, but I don't really know who it is, or how to determine who it is. The best way to make a determination will probably be to wait for the inevitable cult flips (LMP's an obvious one) and extrapolate backward to disproportionate flip-flops on specific players. Until then, it's just wild mass guessing.

We have lots of mafia flips, though, so that's a different ballgame.

I yet to see you lay out the mathematical rationale for cult losing worship votes. NEAT POINT, though --> if ooba is correct, cult recruits may be among the players who claimed early game that their worship didn't count. I can't recall who it was offhand, except that I think Xite/LMP claimed that D2, maybe.[/b]

I am not scum of any sort.

[Katy]

I am happy to vote off any sort of anti-town person, but I think mafia isn't as hard to narrow down or keep under control as cult right now. We have at least four mafia dead and reason to believe that there were only six total. We also have an unknown kill with a recognizable flavor, which must have come from scum, so that limits them in their choices. They have to either kill with the same person and risk being outed, kill with a different person and reveal the remaining kill flavor they have, or not kill, which works for me.

Cult is much harder to pinpoint because the cult members could be anyone. The cult leader is probably able to be found though, and should be stopped if possible to keep from recruiting any more to cult. I'm totally good with trying to get the cult leader.

I am not so sold on the proposed mechanics, though. Mostly because I know for a fact I have had no worship vote since my role was assigned to me. And, the only way the "no worship" cult works is if you presume recruits don't show up on the census because I declared my no vote status on day two, once I realized it made no difference to ABR's power. If I am cult, I would have had to be the first cult recruited on night one, even thought the census indicated that no one had been recruited yet. Also, if you look back on my posts from day one, I made it pretty plain that I did not give one crap who I worshipped. I am Egyptian, but notice I did not state that I would worship Egypt, I said on the first day that I would worship whoever. That's because I already knew my vote did not count.

I still think the most likely choice for cult leader is Fate. His flavor fits it and his play style is perfect for it. He is no threat to anyone with his whimsical ways ... or is he? If we're going after cult leader.

Unvote
Vote: Fate

[VasudeVa]

I agree with lynching CL today.

Who are the cult suspects anyway? The only one I remember was ooba's case on Iec(the one about cult mentions before ABR's claim etc.), which I really liked however I somewhat disagreed on how ooba used it. Iec has always been a high output player, so him being around during the time when the cult was a hot topic made me think it's a little off.

Maybe if we tally all cult mentions into percentages? Hmm...

[ooba]

I am happy to vote off any sort of anti-town person, but I think mafia isn't as hard to narrow down or keep under control as cult right now. We have at least four mafia dead and reason to believe that there were only six total. We also have an unknown kill with a recognizable flavor, which must have come from scum, so that limits them in their choices.

They have to either kill with the same person and risk being outed

, kill with a different person and reveal the remaining kill flavor they have, or not kill, which works for me.

How does the same person making the kill increase risk of being outed in any way? It's like your setting up a reason as to why Mafia's killer would switch tonight ...

I am not so sold on the proposed mechanics, though. Mostly because I know for a fact I have had no worship vote since my role was assigned to me. And, the only way the "no worship" cult works is if you presume recruits don't show up on the census because I declared my no vote status on day two, once I realized it made no difference to ABR's power. If I am cult, I would have had to be the first cult recruited on night one, even thought the census indicated that no one had been recruited yet. Also, if you look back on my posts from day one, I made it pretty plain that I did not give one crap who I worshipped. I am Egyptian, but notice I did not state that I would worship Egypt, I said on the first day that I would worship whoever. That's because I already knew my vote did not count.

- First off you should read the bolded part about ABR's census in my post above.
- Day recruit cult - which I am assuming could have recruited D1 so other points irrelevant

---

I'm reposting the hypnotist role so that people can understand ABR's census in the right context.

Hypnotize

- Each day, you may target a player. If that player's race is Ancient and that player is not a High Councilor, you will hypnotize that player at the end of that day; that player will be informed that they were hypnotized but will not be told what this does. (A hypnotized player gains the Hypnotized ability "You count as a hypnotized player for the purposes of the Hypnotist win condition and Hypnotist abilities". A Hypnotized player retains their original win condition unless activated by your Coup D'Etat Ultimate.)

(For those curious the trigger here was exceeding the number of players on a high council - numbered six with the CL in it)

Hence the statement which many of you keep making that cult had only the leader on D2 start when ABR posted his census might be wrong.

---

Preview: Vas, my case on Iece is a page back. It should be mentioned here that Iece never mentioned cult before ABR did(CMAR, Mina, Parama, DS, Fate, Nikanor). However I like the current theory I have + reactions of those who I think are recruits .. I'd really like someone to rip it apart if they can ..

[VasudeVa]

Actually, yeah. I think Iec being a high output player makes him 'mentioning cult' multiple times a bit off. Although can you explain why he is different here as compared to his Town and Scum games?

[Fate]

Daykilling cult?

Yeah that's me baby.

--points Kathy.

[Fate]

Whoever wanted Kathy dead before I put her back in the scum pile for that lame-duck vote.

I still think Dram is a lazy wagon.

[DTMaster]

Interesting. The Dram case to me looks like a last ditch effort for some reason. Man if I wanted to kill mafia I should have saved my shot for Albatross. He's active lurking. Albatross, do confer to your scum buddy that you should be focusing on cult targets tonight.

@People who are Voting Dram
Stopppp. We can use his ability and limbo the cult leader. If we find the trend of worship votes to remain stagnent then we caught the leader. If the leader is trying to Fram Dram, that means he's not recruiting people. Please

do not lynch Dram

[DTMaster]

Not yet. I don't care Tar, regardless of scum Dram. At this point with the potential of 5 cult recruited, even scum Dram is useful. If Dram was cult, that means that you couldn't have been targeted (see Mina and Plum/Pom as Dram's only target) .

[Fate]

Works for me,

Who do I vote instead?

Unvote:

[Iecerint]

@ VV -- relying only on ooba's culttalking count, I didn't talk about it much D1, and I talked about it a lot (in terms of number of posts) after it became a subject D2. Ooba's claim was that the scummy pattern would be people whose cultposting did not increase after it became the topic of investigation (which led to mafia-not-cult DS).