Mini 1014 - Ghostbusters Mafia - Game Over

[jasonT1981]

Either way, he aint town alligned

[mallowgeno]

You're wrong. My role is a mass roleblocker. Each night I may choose to roleblock everyone if I choose. Upon being lynched, all players will be unable to perform their night actions for 1 night. (I don't know if I can stop the mafia kill or not with it, Liam didn't tell me)

[xRECKONERx]

...a mass roleblocker who isn't one shot? He can roleblock EVERYONE EVERY NIGHT?

No.

[LimMePls]

Hmmm Taz does make an intersting point though on BC... he did say on a member of the town, I could see how some think that is a scumslip. However, BC's point I can see too.... it is scummy to try and make something scummy, that isn't...

This is wishy-washy. Is saying "the town" scummy or not? Is pointing out that someone else said "the town" scummy or not? I personally think saying "the town" isn't scummy, and those who point it out to try and score points are scummy. That said, Taz is the one that pointed it out, so you should ignore it this time.
jT +1 scum point for fence-sitting

It is almost like you did want to start building a case on Ghost simply due to his username....And backed off because no one else was buying it. I don't like that. But he does make a good point about BC and a possible scumslip.

It was RVS. Voting someone based on their username during RVS is so common that you calling attention to it is very strange. I also don't like the language "almost like". What does that mean? Was he doing that or not?
jT +1 scum point for trying to paint Taz's RVS votes as scummy when they were clearly just RVS.

All I know is that you had better not start tunneling on me just because my name has Ghost in it. Because it'll be a huge scumtell for me against you, and I'll probably call for your lynch due to it.

This post creeps me out. No one is tunneling you. Why say this? IT WAS RVS! YOUR NAME HAS GHOST IN IT. It isn't insane for someone to make an RVS vote out of it. That would be like me getting defensive in RVS for getting the "well, your username told me to" joke.
GW +2 scum point for hyper-defesniveness

Yeah the "constant" thing was just me using bad wording, I do that often in these games. Repeated would have indeed been more accurate. Anyway, the point is I use RVS to get reads off of reactions, and I was not liking his reactions at all, using OMGUS whenever people voted him like that. Makes him look bad, I think. I also don't really like RVS bandwagons all that much, which is why I never voted him. I get that it's still early and he could just be excited, but it's something I'll look into as the game continues.

Backtracing from the "constant" word, when called out on it. Why was using the word constant bad? Why do you feel the need to change your wording based on xReck's question?
CT +1 scum point for backtracking under little pressure.

Wagoning to get out of the RVS and showing up and just posting a vote without content. Scum don't make such an obvious play D1.
Mallow's town.

Not sure how I feel about this post. I do want to point it out though, for future reference if needed.

I've never been a fan of RVS bandwagons, because I don't like people getting put into danger when there's no real reasoning. I actually said the same thing in my last game and I was town, so I don't see how that could be interpreted as scummy.

Just because you said that in your last game and you were town, doesn't mean you saying it this time makes you town. In fact, it reads scummy to me.
CT +1 scum point for whatever the hell you call this (I guess gut read by me).

I didn't like Scott's vote on me too much, but I don't think he's scummy. I know my stance on the one issue isn't particularly common. However, the way xRECKONERx twisted my one post around like that, doesn't sit too well with me. He's getting a scummier read right now, Taz is predictably calming down a bit and I don't find him scummy at the moment.

You don't like Scott's vote, but it doesn't make him scummy? That's fence-sitting/wishy-washy.
CT +1 scum point for fence-sitting.

Don't like that latest vote on me at all, I've already explained it's a general opinion I have that carries over no matter what my role is, so if that's all you have on me, it's a crappy reason to vote. Okay, I get it's wrong, but I'm generally a cautious guy, you could read my latest game as town where I played exactly the same.

@d3X:I didn't like how Scott was making a bandwagon vote on me, that was the main thing, and especially over something like that. I still don't think he's scum. because it seems most people disagreed with me, and he's done nothing else to make me suspicious, especially now that BC has just done the exact same thing. I currently like BC less than Scott, just because his vote came after I already explained myself.(Seriously, go find newbie 958, and you'll see how similar I was at the start)

So even though you thought what he did was scummy, you don't think he's scum because no one else does? This looks like trying to blend with the town.
CT +1 scum point for appeasing/blending.

About this "newbie card" thing:How did you even come up with that? When did I specifically try to get out of anything by saying I'm a newb? Once again, twisting my words around. I only mentioned that game because it was my best one(I've played two and the first was an epic fail), and because it would show that to be a general opinion I have. It honestly has nothing to do with strategy, it's just how I am.

Anyway, right now BC is annoying me more than xRECKONERx, because the way he's twisting my posts is just driving me crazy. Unvote, Vote:BC

This reads like a bit of AtE to me. And "annoying me"? What is that?
CT +1 scum point for AtE.

I'm going to fos XScorpion for his attempt at confusion up above. Confusion=scum.

o.O
mallo +1 scum point for... this.

Aye, I'll admit I left, had no choice, but acting suspiciously for telling someone not to tunnel (which isn't a very townish thing to do, as it limits your view and can cause you to miss other scumslips in your crusade against one person in a a game of many) based on a non-game fact that my name, which I've been using long before I even stumbled onto this site, has "Ghost" in it? Especially someone playing the way Taz has been? I think not.

Taz, I do not know quite what to think of you. You are, indeed, doing quite a bit of scummy things, but there are so many, particularly twisting words, that it makes you just look like a really bad townie. Like, really bad. Anything someone says that doesn't agree with you, it seems, gets twisted into some kind of attack against you that you always try to make look like only scum would do.

This post is missing two things. Opinions on anyone other than Taz and a vote. Interesting that the post comes soon after XScorpion's suggestion that he was scum.
GW +1 scum point for active lurking.

So I just woke up a few hours ago and I don't feel like reading and I have to get food and I have to go see a sneak peek of Scott Pilgrim and etc etc

I'll catch up soon, promise.

Posts like this irritate me. I don't care what is going on in your real life, I don't need excuses about why you aren't participating, I'm not your mommy. Just participate or replace out. I don't think this is scummy, just my pet peeve.

Sorry guys that I haven't been on lately. I'm looking back at when I said I fosed XScorpion and I am wondering what I was thinking. I'm sorry if you think me useless. I'm ISOing Coach and I'll see if I can add anything.

After ISOing him I think I'm going to change my vote. He has some valid points and after reading some of what I missed, I think Tarazo is scum.

vote Tarazo

So you ISO'ed CT and found nothing scummy? *Looks up at his reread notes* And then because of that you choose to vote the easy wagon, even though he is getting replaced? Interesting considering your first post of the game was an easy wagon vote as well. Scum-city.
mallo +2 scum points.

Yeah, I have to agree with the case against Mallow:He's been totally unhelpful, lurking like crazy, and then to return and make a vote against someone who's being replaced, and who I feel could easily be an over excited townie, is very suspicious. I think for now I'll Unvote, Vote:Mallowgeno, since the BC thing was really just personal, and while I still don't particularly like him, Mallow seems worse right now.

This means Mallow, BC and xRECKONERx are currently at the top of my suspicions list, while right now I feel Scott, Jason, and Taz are town. There's still some people I'm not totally sure of yet, I'll go through some more later and see if I can get more reads.

In your last post (232) you said Taz was acting suspicious. Then everyone starts unvoting Taz because he's being replaced, in then in this post, with no comments on your change in opinion, you call Taz town. Nice scumslip.
CT +2 scum points.

Scum point tally:
jasonT1981: 2
GhostWriter: 3
Coach Travis: 7
mallowgeno: 3

Conclusions:
Coach Travis is scum and needs lynching. GhostWriter needs to be watched closely and pressured to contribute. mallowgeno is good for vigging, or if we don't have a vig, lynching. jasonT1981 said some things early that bothered me a bit, but not so much later in the game, and is the weakest of my scum reads.

Unvote

(in case Taz's vote was still out there)

Vote: Coach Travis

If there are any outstanding questions to my slot (I didn't see any, but I thought I'd ask) I'll be happy to answer them, please restate or link them.

Hey everyone, I'm here, and I'm catching up. Just wanted to say hey and let you know I'm working on a reread. Expect something this weekend.

ONE FUCKING POST?
ARE YOU SHITTING ME?

Vote: LMP

I LOL'd. Your flailing fascinates me. XReck will be getting my first ISO this game.

[xRECKONERx]

@LMP: I didn't realize you replaced someone. As I stated, I haven't been keeping up.

But, I had a thought.

Unvote

.
I don't think the mod would provide an anti-town role with such an anti-town claim. There would HAVE to be a fakeclaim, otherwise we could all just roleclaim right now and auto-lynch all the anti-town roles.

[GhostWriter]

If we read the link provided by Jason, and scroll down to the section about his role in the game, that may answer things for us about the role Mallow has claimed.

[CallMeLiam]

Vote Count

LynchMePls

- 2 - d3x, , mallowgeno

mallowgeno

- 5 - XScorpion, Coach Travis, Scott Brosius, BloodCovenent, jasonT1981

Coach Travis

- 1 - LynchMePls

Not Voting

- 4 - Zang, Starbuck, Ghostwriter, xRECKONERx

Seven votes lynches

I really don't think we're in need of a deadline just yet.

[Starbuck]

Holy hell.

Hai, I'm the failure who forgot to add her newest game to her bookmarks.

[XScorpion]

No deadline yet, so take your time and please don't be a mallowgeno who posts before reading and contributing content.

[jasonT1981]

I like LMP 278....It slightly eases my concerns about that spot that I previously aired about Taz..... not fully, but it does make his role look a lot more positive than Taz did.

he makes a very interesting point I never picked up on, on Ghost being very defencive over the RVS... your post on CT is actually very convincing. Right now I am thinking CT/GW/Mallow as my top 3 for scum candadates. With LMP slipping down to 4th... as despite me feeling more positive about him, I can't discount Taz's earlier play.

[XScorpion]

Add Zang and Reckoner to that list of 4 and you have my top 6 scum reads, in no particular order.

[jasonT1981]

I'm actually going to

Unvote

for 2 reasons.......

1) I don't want a quick lynch.. I may have been a big eager when the claim came. however

2) I have played in, and modded theme games were roles were not exactly a match to the program or film etc. I played in a game where Ben Linus (the bad guy from lost) was actually a town doctor. As well as a few other games I have run, where I have said character allignment on the show is not indicitive of the role in the games.

[XScorpion]

What's with everyone worrying about quicklynches these days...

[xRECKONERx]

Ben Linus isn't the bad guy from Lost.

[XScorpion]

From wiki:
He began as the antagonist during the second and third seasons, but in subsequent seasons, becomes something of an uneasy ally to the main characters; even so, however, throughout the series, he is persistently characterized by spontaneous coldblooded actions and the shroud of moral ambiguity.

[xRECKONERx]

Moral ambiguity =/= bad guy.
In any case, Ben wound up being one of the good guys, and arguably was one all along.

This reporter dude from Ghostbusters was always antagonistic to the group.

[Coach Travis]

Backtracing from the "constant" word, when called out on it. Why was using the word constant bad? Why do you feel the need to change your wording based on xReck's question?
CT +1 scum point for backtracking under little pressure.

I realized constant was the wrong word there, because it only happened twice, not several times, which that word would suggest. Basically, it was an exaggeration, which could be a scum tactic to make other players look bad.

Just because you said that in your last game and you were town, doesn't mean you saying it this time makes you town. In fact, it reads scummy to me.
CT +1 scum point for whatever the hell you call this (I guess gut read by me).

See, I think it's more scummy if you switch your views on an issue from game to game, just to suit a specific role. My point was that it's an opinion I always have, and I only used meta gaming to show it does in fact carry over from game to game. Basically, I think it's a null tell, because it's a personal opinion, and has nothing to do with strategy. I don't see how having a personal opinion could be viewed as scummy.

You don't like Scott's vote, but it doesn't make him scummy? That's fence-sitting/wishy-washy.
CT +1 scum point for fence-sitting.

Just because someone's voting for you, it doesn't mean you have to find them scummy, or find their methods questionable. Basically, I had seen nothing overly suspicious from Scott up to that point, and still haven't, and voting me isn't scummy, even though I obviously disagree with it. Voting is not scummy, unless you're past the RVS stage, and not giving reasons.

So even though you thought what he did was scummy, you don't think he's scum because no one else does? This looks like trying to blend with the town.
CT +1 scum point for appeasing/blending.

I never said it was scummy, I said I didn't like it. There's a big difference. I never once said I found anything Scott did scummy, because I never did. His argument against me was perfectly reasonable, even though I obviously felt differently about it.

This reads like a bit of AtE to me. And "annoying me"? What is that?
CT +1 scum point for AtE.

Sorry, could you explain what AtE is? I've never heard of that before. And the annoying me thing was just because he was going after a clear personal opinion, and trying to make it seem like I was playing the newbie card when I wasn't:This is my first game outside of Road to Rome, so that was the only example I had. I never once said I was a newb, he made it seem like I did say so, and that was annoying me.

In your last post (232) you said Taz was acting suspicious. Then everyone starts unvoting Taz because he's being replaced, in then in this post, with no comments on your change in opinion, you call Taz town. Nice scumslip.
CT +2 scum points.

Aside from my one post on him early on, (you know, the now infamous "constant" one), I never really went after Taz at all, and my post you're referring to was mostly saying that people found him suspicious, but I personally did not. In fact, I was saying others should give you a chance to come in and say something before voting you, because I was never convinced he was scum. I always thought he was over excited town, so my previous post was not a sudden change like you make it out to be.

I still like the case on Mallow, because if he is indeed a third party player it's a good idea to have him out of the game, and either way if he's going to keep playing like this, he's not really going to help us if we keep him anyway. And obviously, that type of play comes off as scummy. My vote stands.

And I think LMP is obvtown with that post, clearly scumhunting the whole time. Makes my read on Taz seem even more accurate now.

[XScorpion]

Sorry, could you explain what AtE is? I've never heard of that before.

Appeal to emotion. From the wiki:

An appeal to emotion is a particularly devious sort of fallacious argument, particularly in a game of unknowns such as Mafia. "If you lynch me, you'll lose!" is an easy example, but there are many others, played by both/all Factions in most games at some point. The nature of the game lends itself to appeals to fear or hope or trust.

[Coach Travis]

EBWOP:I just realized I said something wrong there:I never actually said the thing about giving LMP a chance to come in and make a post, but I was thinking it. Either way, you can see where I mentioned finding Taz overexcited and not scummy.

[jasonT1981]

I still like the case on Mallow,

because if he is indeed a third party player it's a good idea to have him out of the game,

and either way if he's going to keep playing like this, he's not really going to help us if we keep him anyway. And obviously, that type of play comes off as scummy. My vote stands.

I'd rather lynch scum than 3rd party.... only people who would call for (hypo) 3rd parties to be taken out ahead of scum... would be scum

vote: Coach Travis

[jasonT1981]

Ben Linus isn't the bad guy from Lost.

But he certainly wasn't a doctor.... Jack was, as was Julliett, My point was not all theme games characters are completly true to the game flavor.

[LimMePls]

Backtracing from the "constant" word, when called out on it. Why was using the word constant bad? Why do you feel the need to change your wording based on xReck's question?
CT +1 scum point for backtracking under little pressure.

I realized constant was the wrong word there, because it only happened twice, not several times, which that word would suggest. Basically, it was an exaggeration, which could be a scum tactic to make other players look bad.

The game was like 24 hours old (or less IIRC) and he'd already done it twice. I don't think constant was a poor choice of words. The fact that you felt the need to backtrack out of it when someone mentioned they thought constant was a bad word is what makes you look scummy. It looks like you are trying to appease the town, rather than stick to your convictions. Which is scummy.

Just because you said that in your last game and you were town, doesn't mean you saying it this time makes you town. In fact, it reads scummy to me.
CT +1 scum point for whatever the hell you call this (I guess gut read by me).

See, I think it's more scummy if you switch your views on an issue from game to game, just to suit a specific role. My point was that it's an opinion I always have, and I only used meta gaming to show it does in fact carry over from game to game. Basically, I think it's a null tell, because it's a personal opinion, and has nothing to do with strategy. I don't see how having a personal opinion could be viewed as scummy.

Here is what you said:

I've never been a fan of RVS bandwagons, because I don't like people getting put into danger when there's no real reasoning. I actually said the same thing in my last game and I was town, so I don't see how that could be interpreted as scummy.

It's one thing to say "I've always held this opinion, so it's a null tell". That isn't what you did though, you brought up the fact that you had that opinion in another game, and that you were town in that other game. The key difference here is that you felt the need to bring up that you were town in the other game, as if to imply that holding that opinion in another game when you were town means that having that opinion in this game makes you town. So throwing in the part about "I actually said the same thing in my last game

and I was town

" is scummy as hell. Clearly if you said it last time as town, you could say it now as scum. In fact, as you point out, switching without a reason would look scummy, so you have an extra incentive to stay consistent if you are scum.

You don't like Scott's vote, but it doesn't make him scummy? That's fence-sitting/wishy-washy.
CT +1 scum point for fence-sitting.

Just because someone's voting for you, it doesn't mean you have to find them scummy, or find their methods questionable. Basically, I had seen nothing overly suspicious from Scott up to that point, and still haven't, and voting me isn't scummy, even though I obviously disagree with it. Voting is not scummy, unless you're past the RVS stage, and not giving reasons.

My point is that you are couching your language in the most mild, appeasing way possible. You dislike the vote, but you don't find it scummy. This is just one of many examples of this sort of behaviour from you, where you refuse to take a hard stand, you just say wishy-washy half-hearted things. In fact, the few times you do take a stand, you've been all to quick to backtrack when pushed on it at all. It reads like you want to fit in with the town, rather than just being town naturally.

So even though you thought what he did was scummy, you don't think he's scum because no one else does? This looks like trying to blend with the town.
CT +1 scum point for appeasing/blending.

I never said it was scummy, I said I didn't like it. There's a big difference. I never once said I found anything Scott did scummy, because I never did. His argument against me was perfectly reasonable, even though I obviously felt differently about it.

Read above. This is just another example of you trying to defend yourself without taking a firm stand on anything. You don't like his vote, but you don't push him about it, you don't make a strong stand and call him flat out wrong, you just say "I don't like it". It's half-assed and it makes you look scummy.

This reads like a bit of AtE to me. And "annoying me"? What is that?
CT +1 scum point for AtE.

Sorry, could you explain what AtE is? I've never heard of that before. And the annoying me thing was just because he was going after a clear personal opinion, and trying to make it seem like I was playing the newbie card when I wasn't:This is my first game outside of Road to Rome, so that was the only example I had. I never once said I was a newb, he made it seem like I did say so, and that was annoying me.

Appeal to Emotion. It sounded like you were defending yourself on grounds that "he was being mean". That's how it read to me.

In your last post (232) you said Taz was acting suspicious. Then everyone starts unvoting Taz because he's being replaced, in then in this post, with no comments on your change in opinion, you call Taz town. Nice scumslip.
CT +2 scum points.

Aside from my one post on him early on, (you know, the now infamous "constant" one), I never really went after Taz at all, and my post you're referring to was mostly saying that people found him suspicious, but I personally did not. In fact, I was saying others should give you a chance to come in and say something before voting you, because I was never convinced he was scum. I always thought he was over excited town, so my previous post was not a sudden change like you make it out to be.

Everyone, if you're skimming the quote war, please pay attention to this bit, it's the best part of my case.

Here is an exact timeline, with quotes, of what you did, and why it is scummy.

Nice to see Starbuck around, interested to hear from him. But now the real interesting thing will be seeing how Taz's replacement acts,

because Taz was acting suspicious

, I personally wrote it off as just him being overly hyper,

didn't really find him scummy, but I'm interested to see how the replacement will act, with the situation as it is

.

Also, while I still disagree with Scott, I don't find him scummy, because he at least has a good enough explanation, and isn't accusing me of something I never did. Still think he's town. His case against me is totally fair, no matter how much I disagree with it.

Yeah, I have to agree with the case against Mallow:He's been totally unhelpful, lurking like crazy, and then to return and make a vote against someone who's being replaced, and who I feel could easily be an over excited townie, is very suspicious. I think for now I'll Unvote, Vote:Mallowgeno, since the BC thing was really just personal, and while I still don't particularly like him, Mallow seems worse right now.

This means Mallow, BC and xRECKONERx are currently at the top of my suspicions list, while right now I feel Scott, Jason, and

Taz are town

. There's still some people I'm not totally sure of yet, I'll go through some more later and see if I can get more reads.

So you say that Taz was "acting suspicious", but you didn't ever find him scummy, again another instance of you fence-sitting. If you thought he wasn't acting suspicious, then why do you say he was. And if you admit he was, then why would you think he is town?

The timing of these posts is important. In the space of 16 hours, and 12 posts, you go from admitting my slot was suspicious and wanting to see what the replacement does, to calling the slot town. Note that in those 16 hours and 12 posts, there was not one post by my slot, and the only things that had occurred involving my slot was an unvote from jason and a vote by mallow. So what exactly, changed your mind in those 12 posts/16 hours that swung you from admitting my slot was suspicious and wanting to see what the replacement did to calling my slot town? If you thought my slot was town, which you seem to imply (again without taking a firm stand on the idea), then why not say that outright? Why say you are gonna watch my slot, and then suddenly you are calling it town? It looks like you were mimicking the others who were saying they wanted to see what the replacement does. Again, you read to me like someone who is trying too hard to blend with the town, which is scummy.

I still like the case on Mallow, because if he is indeed a third party player it's a good idea to have him out of the game, and either way if he's going to keep playing like this, he's not really going to help us if we keep him anyway. And obviously, that type of play comes off as scummy. My vote stands.

And I think LMP is obvtown with that post, clearly scumhunting the whole time. Makes my read on Taz seem even more accurate now.

And now you are calling me obvtown. So we can add buddying to your scummy behaviors.

[Coach Travis]

I meant "suspicious" in that I knew his behavior was clearly something other people found suspicious. Did I myself find him suspicious? No, aside from the one time I mentioned. I saw his actions more as him being overly hyper, and I did mention this multiple times. Nothing changed between that time, I just finally mentioned having a town read on him, which had been the case for a while, and I was interested to see what you would do so my read could be confirmed or proven wrong. Not only was it confirmed, I got a stronger town read from you, because you removed anything that possibly be interpreted as suspicious, and were more active as a scumhunting. Basically, I had been off of the case on him long before then, I just finally decided to mention my town read, because I figured if the replacement was a better player, his innocence would be more obvious. And I was right.

[Coach Travis]

Or another way to put it:I figured Taz was town early on, but I didn't think he was a very good player, with some of his actions coming off as suspicious, but overall it was clear enough to me that he was town, and I never really suspected him of being scum.

[CallMeLiam]

Vote Count

LynchMePls

- 2 - d3x, mallowgeno

mallowgeno

- 4 - XScorpion, Coach Travis, Scott Brosius, BloodCovenent

Coach Travis

- 2 - LynchMePls, jasonT1981

Not Voting

- 4 - Zang, Starbuck, Ghostwriter, xRECKONERx

Seven votes lynches