Newbie 983 ~ Game Over!

[Seraphim]

@archaebob

Do you believe my claim?

Deadline is August 4th.

[silverbullet999]

-Arch

1. Ok I can see how someone could feel that post was pressured, thank you
2. Get to my other question when you can! ... sooner vs later : P
3. Seraphim made a good case and his quick turnabout and hop on to seraphim just made me suspicious, I also am leaning to believe seraph's claim, and i never found him too scummy thus far.

[KittyMo]

Vote Count XV

[4] Prox - ( Seraphim, silverbullet999, drmyshottyizsik, Hinduragi)

[1] Seraphim - (foilist13)
[1] Hinduragi - (Switz)

[0] archaebob - ()
[0] drmyshottyizsik - ()
[0] foilist13 - ()
[0] Good and Honest - ()
[0] silverbullet999 - ()
[0] Switz - ()

[3]

Not Voting

- (archaebob, Prox, Good and Honest)

With

9

alive, it's

5

to lynch!

Deadline is at Wednesday, August 4, 2010 at 9:00:00 PM (Los Angeles time)

FLAVOR

[archaebob]

Prox is at L-1. Can someone please unvote?

There is another week to deadline, which we should put to good use. I'll have more time to post after the 31st, and I have a lot I want to say.

@ seraphim -

why do you want to know?

[silverbullet999]

UNVOTE:

[silverbullet999]

.....

UNVOTE:

[Seraphim]

why do you want to know?

I want to know because your post seems to suggest you don't and if you don't believe my claim, I want to know why you're not voting me.

[Hinduragi]

I don't fully believe his claim. In all honesty, though, Prox gave me a much bigger scum tell than Seraphim did.(Plus, as you said, no scum fakeclaims Cop this early) Take into point the fact no case was actually posted to prove Seraphim(Not Haylen) was scum yet he made it to L-1 and I'd say everyones reasons for voting him were BS. (Even now, I still don't believe Haylen was actually committed to this game)

Bob, I know you've been busy the past few days and that's why I'm not pushing this as hard as I would if you had been participating the past 3 days but post some games where you were scum.... actually, fuck it, looked through your posts and found some games. Going to read the mafia ones now. WOW, LOL. Yep, Bob's town here. If you want to see for yourself, read Newbie 842 and Newbie 900. I'll be on the look out for a better read but if he's scum in this game, I'll try to /in to a game as a suicide townie.

[drmyshottyizsik]

[not for real]

Vote: KittyMo No Leave

[/not for real]

[silverbullet999]

Going to read the mafia ones now. WOW, LOL. Yep, Bob's town here.

I'm too lazy to read those games... could you summarize what he did in those games as mafia that he hasn't done here?

[foilist13]

(Let's assume he's scum)
3.) Noone counterclaims. A case is posted. People are convinced. Scum gone.

(Let's assume he's cop)
1.) He doesn't get counterclaimed. Someone posts a case against him but it's nowhere near enough proof to lynch if he is the actual cop. No mislynch occurs.[/quote]

I wonder, very strongly, why you seem to think it is impossible for him to be lynched if he is the real cop. Now let's just say for a moment that you and he were scum partners and you knew that there was either a cop or a doc. Seraphim took the risk, but hasn't been counter claimed. Your logical setup shows that if he doesn't get lynched or counterclaimed then he should be confirmed town, which is patently untrue. I seriously wonder why you would want to do that.

I'm exhausted and I have a sunstroke. I'll get to the rest of me reading later.

[Switz]

Okay, so as much as I want to believe Prox is town and I haven't been following scum after townShotty, the more I look at things the more Prox seems scummy. I've skimmed through his ISO, and throughout the Day, he's:

Flipfloppy on G&H
Went after Shotty relentlessly with little initial reason
Cribbed most of his Shotty-argument from Hinduragi
Switched wagons at a convenient and appropriate time
Willing to completely change his convictions at the drop of a hat (see above, w/ Shotty/Seraphim switch)

My vote would put him at L-1, but since we have the time I won't give it. I'll just join in the asking for a claim.

And @Arch: I honestly don't fully believe Seraphim's claim, but since he himself hasn't been acting especially scummy, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. As others have said, if there's a counterclaim on D2, then I'll start to think about it a lot harder.

[archaebob]

@ seraphim -

It makes sense to leave you alive today regardless of whether or not I believe your claim. If you are the real cop, you will likely get NK'd or roleblocked, which means the scum won't be able to use that NK or roleblock on someone else. And if you are scum, then you have to try extra hard now NOT to kill the real cop (if he exists), cause that flip will confirm you as scum. I like that conflict of interest. Also, since there is a possibility of confirming your alignment in the event of a cop flip later on, there's no reason to lynch you now when we aren't 100% sure of anything. And finally, regardless of your alignment you are confirmed non-vanilla townie, which means it's a better use of our D1 lynch to push somebody else who we don't know anything about. If we manage to hit another scum besides you, we'll be in a much better place info-wise than if we lynch you, even if you are also scum.

So, to answer your question, it doesn't really matter whether or not I believe your claim. I'm not 100% in either direction, and not voting you right now is the best move strategically.

[Hinduragi]

Foilist-

Spoiler: Quotes

As for HinduPost25, you forgot the possibility that he's cop and people are convinced to believe otherwise.

And yeah, I saw later that I forgot the last possibility. Thanks for pointing it out. Hopefully I made my point on that clear enough, though.

SB -
I'll just make a quote list of how he played as scum on D1 in one of the games. This isn't a reason to stop suspecting him but for now he's got a pro-town read from me. Here goes.
He replaced into a game D1.

Spoiler: More Quotes

my insight is that this game needs a policy lynch.

In other news, I've decided that I agree whole-heartedly with the Zodiark lynch, as he is exactly the type of player I don't want around in lylo. Does anyone object to my voting right now?

We kill Zodiark, and then we doc protect the fuck out of NN (assuming we have a doctor to begin with). What we're guaranteed is a town in which everyone alive can be held accountable to their posts, with the same chance of hitting scum D1 as we have

anyways

.

I think this day might be a little bit too short, actually, so I'm going to advise against lynching Zodiark immediately. I think 12-14 pages or so is the optimal length, and we can afford to get some more content in here before the end of the day.

(^This was in the same post as the quote above it)

unvote, vote Zordiark13

[Prox]

QQ I'm flailing because I'm trying to convince you guys not to lynch me!!

There's no point in me claiming, sorry. It won't help anyone if I do.

Sigh, I seriously didn't think this would happen. I knew changing my mind was risky, but this??? I must apologize for what might proceed from my recklessness...

I don't have time to read the pages that occurred since I last posted. I really hope you think very hard about it before you hammer me, because I'd hate to mislynched D1 on my first game here, and I'm not scum, and everything I've done has been for the sake of getting the town to win, even me trying not to get lynched. I'm NOT scum, I'm just someone who had wrong opinions at the start of the game and tried to correct them!!! Shotty IS just an idiot, and I should have realized this sooner. Sorry for not making this clear in a less scummy way.

If someone who isn't voting me wants to hammer me, tell me so before you do it. I'll do what I can before and to prevent that from happening.

Again, I'm really really sorry.

[Seraphim]

My vote would put him at L-1, but since we have the time I won't give it. I'll just join in the asking for a claim.

Actually this would have been a hammer vote.

There's no point in me claiming, sorry. It won't help anyone if I do.

Yes, it will. Refusal to claim will get you lynched. That entire last post was a giant batch of Appeal to Emotion that doesn't convince anyone of your town-ness. Claim or die, basically.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Sorry Prox I know you backed off of me and all but I truly think you are scum.

Can we please have a L-1 vote again?

[foilist13]

I don't think Prox is scum. Prox vs. Shotty looks like town on town to me. Hindu's play into that however looks to be scum motivated. I don't have time to go into that right now since I'm walking out, however that will be the subject of my next post.

@Seraphim: I'll buy your claim for now.

unvote, vote: Hinduragi

[drmyshottyizsik]

ok thanks, i hope you can change my mind

[Prox]

My vote would put him at L-1, but since we have the time I won't give it. I'll just join in the asking for a claim.

Actually this would have been a hammer vote.

There's no point in me claiming, sorry. It won't help anyone if I do.

Yes, it will. Refusal to claim will get you lynched. That entire last post was a giant batch of Appeal to Emotion that doesn't convince anyone of your town-ness. Claim or die, basically.

Claim or die; claim and die: the end result is the same.

Now, I'm going to address all I can. I still hope you'll be a bit more intuitive before deciding to hammer, sorry.

So when you unvoted Shotty, did you still think he was scummy?

Trying to get a person to slip just to validate your attack only causes mislynches.

My attack is already validated. You have already slipped. G&H is backing up my attacks and revealing your scummy play for what it really is.

n post 206, I think I was trying to vote for Haylen, but failed. If when asked I said otherwise, I must've been absentminded and not checked. Sorry. And then I read the whole thread thing or maybe looked at the vote count and became ambivalent and then things just went out of whack. Or something like that. I really don't understand what happened now that I look in hindsight. I usually don't FoS people I have my vote on. Please don't make me figure it out.

Baaaaacktraaaaaacking and trying to escape your past actions. Can we lynch this scum please?

I really can't help that last part. I DON'T know what happened. It's my fault, but it's a total accident. I can't help those, as scum or town.

When I unvoted shotty, I wasn't sure. I was still leaning toward scum, but also not.

If what I'm doing is backtracking, its half-accidental and have instinctive: I'm trying not to get lynched!

It's difficult to be consistent when your previous opinion can't be called completely pro-town. I am NOT scum. I'm just an unfortunate townsperson who couldn't be clear about his actions because he wasn't clear about them to himself. I DON'T make a list of motivations for my actions in my notes to point to when someone questions me about them. I just do what I think will have the best effect on the town.

There are some questions whose answers always seem scummy! Again, I must apologize for falling into this trap, even if its setting was not intentional. There's no way out now; if I'm not lynched tomorrow, another stupid action or word or allegation on me another day will hurt chances for the town. It might just be best to lynch me now and observe the wagon in retrospect.

I can't help changing my mind about shotty. I should have been sure that I was right from the beginning or more subtly went from one opinion to another. I didn't do the latter because I knew that was a scummy thing to do and I didn't do the former because of my stupidity. I can't help that!

I know that I'm currently right about shotty, though, and I'm not going to just let him get lynched (because its obvious that he's not going to adequately defend himself), because mislynches are anti-town. I couldn't just shut up. The pattern of my shifting opinions and votes may not please you, but they are real and with real town intentions. I never voted for someone if I didn't find them scummy and I never tried to hide my intentions or not help the town. All I've done is try to contribute and help.

I AM NOT SCUM.

Also, foilist is pro. He was right about shotty, and then me, and his opinions on Hinduragi seem to make sense, too. But I'm not going to end this post with a wagon vote, sorry. That wagon would suffer until I get lynched and the truth becomes obvious.

[Seraphim]

That entire last post was appeal to emotion, buddy, and doesn't change my mind AT ALL. I don't see Hinduragi-scum at the moment. You're desperate because the town has you on the ropes, scum. And your refusal to claim is very scummy at worst, anti-town at best.

Claim or die; claim and die: the end result is the same.

If you're soft-claiming vanilla town, just claim it already and be done with it. Your mysterious playacting isn't pro-town in the slightest.

Foilist13: what do you think of Prox's refusal to claim?

[Hinduragi]

Unvote

It's obvious by now that Prox is newbtown using accidental AtE. Newbscum would get frustrated at this point and either self-vote, not say anything, claim a PR, or claim scum. Assuming he's scum playing newbtown at this point is just silly given his play up to this point. No scum would go for VI then change his opinion suddenly and hop onto the next wagon and then backtrack and use AtE while refusing to claim. Prox is town. Also Prox, if a case on someone makes sense to you and you agree with it, you shouldn't withhold your vote. That's anti-town.

[Prox]

That entire last post was appeal to emotion, buddy, and doesn't change my mind AT ALL. I don't see Hinduragi-scum at the moment. You're desperate because the town has you on the ropes, scum. And your refusal to claim is very scummy at worst, anti-town at best.

Claim or die; claim and die: the end result is the same.

If you're soft-claiming vanilla town, just claim it already and be done with it. Your mysterious playacting isn't pro-town in the slightest.

Foilist13: what do you think of Prox's refusal to claim?

I don't think my claim helps anyone but the minority. You could convince me otherwise, but I disagree. Of course I'm desperate because the town has me on the ropes. Why would a townie not be? Also, I used logic in my last post. You need to look at my actions and explain my scum intent. For something to be scummy, it has to have a scum intent. I realized this and that is why I changed my mind about shotty.

@Hindu: being called noobtown feels worse than being called scum. what is AtE? Also, isn't it antitown to seem scummy?

[Hinduragi]

Appeal to Emotion.
And yeah it is, because you either are anti-town or you wound up being suspicious enough to take attention away from a scum or get mislynched thus costing the town a lynch.

[KittyMo]

FLAVOR

DISEMBODIED HEADS DROOL INTO THE ABYSS.