/Invitational 11: Pick your Poison 5 (Game Over)

[Ellibereth]

Hai guyz.

Vote: Roleblocker

Also liking Jan > Rolecop right now.
Kmd is town.

[Ellibereth]

Vote: Janitor

[Ellibereth]

JANITOR IS A STUPID CHOICE, SERIOUSLY

I DON'T GET WHY.
I mean, wagon analysis isn't affected that much. Well, it's only affected when the janitor'ed guy was on some other wagon but we should be able to adjust for that.
Lylo...uh...just assume we're there early as possible? I dunno.
Yeah actually, not knowing a flip late game would be annoying...lynch all the scum before we get to late game?
I think Rolecop is strong with Roleblocker though.

Bleh I dunno, I'd take either.

[Ellibereth]

btw I totally would have suggested 4 VIGS as scum. double-edged-swords are awesome.

[Ellibereth]

I'm worried about the assassin thing because I think it's pretty easy to for scum to PR-hunt especially when they know what PR's they're looking for.
worst case scenario for assassin/roleblock and rolecop/roleblock is it dissolves to mountainous right?
So latter would be better between those two I think.

[Ellibereth]

Oh whatever, I'm fine with Roleblocker + Anything.
and I think the jan is only for lynched peoplez, not Nk's.
ANYWAYZ
Time to get to something that matters.

TOWN
KMD
Vas
DGB
Mith
Troll
Zor
Hero
Plumen
ooba

PEOPLE LEFT
Amished
ekiM
Elmo
Hoopla
My Milked Eek
Papa Zito
populartajo
Rhinox
Slicey
SpyreX

[Ellibereth]

Does anyone besides me think it might be best to wait until after 24 hours into day 1 before we start giving serious reads?

nowhy

[Ellibereth]

oh. Didn't know they get to choose who gets what, my bad.
Soooo we should all lurk through the first 24 hours of D1 then rite? Or talk about stuff that doesn't matter.

[Ellibereth]

unvote Roleblock

I haven't really followed all the stuff but what combos without roleblocker are being considered? I didn't have any without.

[Ellibereth]

This is still going on. >.>
Can we just choose whatever and roll...

[Ellibereth]

/prod received

I don't care about claims and all that. Go with whatever majority is. Waiting for this to be over.

[Ellibereth]

V/LA next 3 days

[Ellibereth]

Quick Check in. Still LA for a few more days though.
Even though it doesn't matter now was NOT A HIDER.

[Ellibereth]

HEY OOBA
BY YOUR CRITERIA WHY ISN'T MITH IN THE TOWN LIST PART?

[Ellibereth]

UPDATEDDDDDDD

TOWN
Elli
Hero
DGB
KMD
mith
ooba
tajo
Rhino
Slicey
Spy
Vas
Troll

PEOPLE LEFT
Amished
ekiM
Elmo
Hoops
Eek
Zito
Plumen
zor

[Ellibereth]

It was pretty obvious you were faking.

How could you tell. >.>

[Ellibereth]

Elmo I think I've made frequent lists like that in every large game I've played for a while now. Yeah.
Also, don't get why reads have to come with analysis? Everything Day 0 bored me.

HEY VAS, ARE YOU TOWN?

[Ellibereth]

Amished is prob town.

[Ellibereth]

Vote:KMD4390

Not around at D0 deadline, and last to hider claim. Also, didn't hider claim in #350, even though he surely read #348 and #349 before posting. Prediction: still considering whether scum should fake claim hider in the QT.

This is good point.
Taking him off townlist.

VOTE KMD

[Ellibereth]

Why I do not like one hider claim:

There's absolutely no certainty that we have a hider. I cannot imagine what benefits one could see that are not in a massclaim. In fact one of the biggest disadvantages imo is the uncertainty of the claim. If we had massclaimed before assigning the scum roles we would have gotten more certainty. And now that there is one hider claim and not two or none, the likelihood of a fakeclaim lies higher. Was the hider against a massclaim?

Eek is prob town.

[Ellibereth]

Amished is prob town.

Why?

Get the feeling from his attitude toward you thinking he's scum.

[Ellibereth]

@Elmo, Troll's experience with Ellibereth as town be that him puts too many town on his suspicion lists then as well (Pledge of Allegiance, for example) for reasons that no be particularly good (or transparent) and that him does a relatively poor job of re-examining.

My entire scumlist there tourned out to be the whole third party team system >.>

Hero, I'm not getting why the janitor wagon is particularily suspect.

Also, my impression of Hoops is that she's more absentmind/missing/forgettingstuffish as town. I think.

[Ellibereth]

@Elli: The janitor wagon is suspect because the ability, even one shot, is more powerful than any of the others.

arughawagaerg I thought we settled this sort of stuff D1...
But looking at D0 town obv had disagreements about what was most powerful, so scum maybe had different ideas about what was strongest etc.
I mean, I would bet there was at least one scum on each of the voting-for-a-role wagons just because but not one particuarily bad. Or we won't until we get an idea of what Pr's we have. Yeah.

[Ellibereth]

VASSSSSSSS, ARE YOU TOWN?
HAVE PEOPLE ASKED YOU FOR YOUR META BEFORE???

[Ellibereth]

Hero, okay whatever. I just don't think that Jan wagon has higher chance then roleblocker wagon for scum on it. No biggie.
About tajo lurker list thing, probably scum, but nothing special. I know at least 2 were away etc. Also I remember someone saying somewhere that he had an observation that lurkerscum usually lurk to just before prod range and posts etc.
Sorta like how my posting pattern has been >.<, except it's intentional etc.
Oh yeah, Ythill said that.

[Ellibereth]

It's funny that a lot of people I had on the PEOPLE LEFT section are all on the Hoopla wagon.

[Ellibereth]

lurkerscum usually lurk to just before prod range and posts etc.

Ugh too lazy to actually find names.

Mod, you should prob prod individual accounts for Plumen hydra.

ekiM off the top of my head. Are there more?

[Ellibereth]

VASSSSSSSS, ARE YOU TOWN?
HAVE PEOPLE ASKED YOU FOR YOUR META BEFORE???

[Ellibereth]

HMMM
HAVE I EVER SEEN TOWN YOU BEFORE?
ALSO
STILL DON'T GET WHY IT WAS SUSPICIOUS.

[Ellibereth]

Ellibereth: Please stop posting in caps. It's annoying.

Let me do it one last time. >.>

I haven't played with (un)populartajo before,nor have I ever talked to him outside of games yet he claims to have a 'bad feeling' about a 'Town meta' of mine. If that's not suspicious, I don't know what is. Also, he dodges that question and proceeds to wagon on me.

WHY COULDN'T HE HAVE READ A GAME YOU'RE IN? ETC.
ALSO WHAT SCUM MOTIVATION IS THERE IN DOING WHAT HE DID.
ok caps done.
And now, if you're town
I'm telling you that Tajo = town. Or you can just assume it for a sec.
WHo's scum on your wagon?

[Ellibereth]

Vasvasvasvasvas
There are more people than you in a game, something like at least 11 more.
He might have been reading one of those and you might have been in it, aye?
I seriously don't get how you're thinking his meta-asking is scummy, not at all. >.>

ALSO

And now, if you're town
I'm telling you that Tajo = town. Or you can just assume it for a sec.
WHo's scum on your wagon?

[Ellibereth]

HOOPS
In the past did you lurk more as town or scum.

[Ellibereth]

Only remember once as scum and recently saw someone say you were more active as town.
Just checking.

[Ellibereth]

Only remember once as scum and recently saw someone say you were more active as town.
Just checking.

ELMO
Does it kinda sorta have to do with the above? ^^^

[Ellibereth]

Does it kinda sorta have to do with the above? ^^^

It's quite likely the same. =)

Yeah. The problem is it contradicts my own limited experience with her. >.>
Bleh.

PLUMEN
EKIM
KMD

[Ellibereth]

^^^VAS, THAT'S WHY TAJO's TOWN.
Anywho, me no likey any of the options but out of them lynch Hoops, Vig Vas, is the one I like.

unvote, vote Hoopla

also, those names in caps earlier were a scumlist btw.

[Ellibereth]

I just had the thought that Hooplascum is letting herself get lynched to allow the Janshenanigans come into play.
hmph.
Shouldn't we lynch the one between Hoops/Vas that we want the flip of LESS.

[Ellibereth]

unvote

[Ellibereth]

Yeah, now i'm getting more anda more sure Hoopla is scum.
She wasn't playing how I expected for either alignment so I was all confused, but forcing on janitor shenanigans explains it.
SO

Anywho, me no likey any of the options but out of them lynch Hoops, Vig Vas, is the one I like.

this is still the one I like.

[Ellibereth]

Anywho, me no likey any of the options but out of them lynch Hoops, Vig Vas, is the one I like.

Vig Vas, who wasn't on your scumlist, and let the person you've been voting all day, who was on your scumlist, wake up tomorrow? Why?

Want flip of Vas more.
KMD gets a lot easier and easier to read as time goes on IMO.

[Ellibereth]

Vote: ekim

FoS: Plumen, Vas, KMD

[Ellibereth]

Tajo thought Amished was scum.

[Ellibereth]

No, I'm saying people did think Amished was scum, tajo was the only particular one I remembered.

[Ellibereth]

No votes =/= people didn't think he was scum.

[Ellibereth]

Kerri, why you choose Sera?

[Ellibereth]

DGB, why'da make that nice chart for Amished suspects when you thought Amished was the scumkill, and not one for tajo when it's probably that he was.

[Ellibereth]

Oh hai I'll look more into this later.
For now:
Gut + the just posting pre-prod thing + sheeping tajo.
Yeah.

VAS
Did you ever reply to tajo's stuff about your past town meta and this being all contradictory and stuff?

[Ellibereth]

NOTE: VAS IS LURKING.

[Ellibereth]

I'm totally betting that tajo was right on at least one guy btw.

[Ellibereth]

Now look what you did, I have to post now. D:

Hai. How are you?
And this:

VAS
Did you ever reply to tajo's stuff about your past town meta and this being all contradictory and stuff?

[Ellibereth]

Ive read the following games where you were town:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=14272&start=0
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=13633

I have no idea why you are refusing to post your playstyle in a paragraph. I know you can think, you were a feared townie in the Beatles game. You were very easy to read as town in Deathnote's game. This game, you are hoping wagons like crazy and providing really bad arguments to support your views.

^^^I meant this.
And whatever question you meant, sure!

[Ellibereth]

Huh?
I thought it was Vas, Amished, ekiM with a side of Plumen.

And I'm voting ekiM. >.>

[Ellibereth]

Kerri, I didn't read your case, but you're wrong about Sera.
I dunt get ooba wagon, basically forgotten all about zor too.

[Ellibereth]

I think Vas is town.
And I'm really slow. Not getting Zito's ooba thing. BABYSTEP ME THROUGH PLZ?

[Ellibereth]

Sera's obvtown. Why are people voting him.

[Ellibereth]

unvote, vote zoraster

[Ellibereth]

That's not really an answer, Elli. Care to elaborate? Actually scummy or Punishment for being absent? Is that a good way to encourage people to start posting again?

Yes to All of the above?
Yeah. That.

[Ellibereth]

I don't get what you keep saying about getting info the elmo-tajo thing.
You being zor.

[Ellibereth]

Wait.
When you said passive lurking earlier.
You meant you were here reading, but just not posting rite?
Be honest.

[Ellibereth]

I don't get what you keep saying about getting info the elmo-tajo thing.
You being zor.

And what do you think aboue people OTHER than DGB.

[Ellibereth]

Isn't Zito's thing on ooba/
RB + RC
not just RB?

Cause I remember loads of people liking RB.

[Ellibereth]

I still think that at least 1 of {ekim, Vas (maybe Plumen)} is scumz due to tajo btw.

[Ellibereth]

oigetit, Zito said it was the roleblocker that was "especially damning", not the combination.
Thanks

[Ellibereth]

VASSSSSSSSS
YOU KNOW I WON'T STOP DOING THIS :p

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... 5&sr=posts

[Ellibereth]

VAS
AND MORE META FOR YOU TO DIG UP!

Have you feigned cluelessness over mechanics as scum before?

[Ellibereth]

I don't get what you keep saying about getting info the elmo-tajo thing.
You being zor.

And what do you think aboue people OTHER than DGB.

[Ellibereth]

unvote

[Ellibereth]

Zor, did you do that list via readthrough or iso>?

[Ellibereth]

Oh crap. Zoraster is town and mith is scum.

unvote, vote vas

O.O
Not at the first one. That's fine.
But the second.

[Ellibereth]

I did a readthrough a few days ago when I was catching up with the game, and then did the person-by-person analysis mostly by iso (sometimes checking the context for things).

OIC.
I'm curious, because when you were looking at the MME slot there's no mention of Kerri. And I think he did some stuff.

[Ellibereth]

/antiprodwillcatchuplater.

Just saying, not really that suprised Zor would have missed that (see that assassins game).
And I don't see him as the faker type, the question is if he's scum who missed it in the QT...

[Ellibereth]

ekiM, Ellibereth, ooba: None of you have posted content recently. Thoughts on DGB and zoraster, go.

Mod:

ekiM is over the 48 hour mark.

Would bet town on the latter.
And probably the former too, but less sure.

7 hours left?
I should be around within 6 hours from now so I'll hammer then.

[Ellibereth]

Wait, I might change my mind on Zor.

[Ellibereth]

Nevermind, Would still bet town.

[Ellibereth]

V/A 3 DAYS. PROXY VOTE TO KMD

[Ellibereth]

I'm kinda back.
Will be catching up either tomorrow or the day after.
Yeah

[Ellibereth]

Stepping outside the game for a moment...

Kmd, in all sincerity I hope that when my alignment is revealed as pro-town - whether that happens at the end of today, or on a later night or day, or at the end of the game - you resist the urge to brush this fiasco off as a "oops, guess I was wrong, my bad, teehee" moment and seize the opportunity to take a good hard introspective look at your play and your logical reasoning skills (or lack thereof).

We all make mistakes, in Mafia and elsewhere. Everyone gets bad reads. It happens (a lot), and it's ok. What's not ok is for you to get the tunnel fever like a newbie, despite multiple third parties telling you your case is rubbish; determination in the face of reasoning isn't a badge of honor, it's just stupidity. What's not ok is for you to decide that you've "got enough of a feel" and don't need to share your thoughts on the other players, or ask insightful questions, or otherwise contribute to the game beyond your pathetic tunnel and an acknowledgement that you might have to move your vote at deadline. That's not... [actually, I don't know what "good" thing you could think the position you've taken in 1284 represents, but whatever it is, stick it here], it's just bad play.[/patronising tone]

Now that I'm finished talking down to Kmd, can we get on with lynching DGB?

Mith is town.

[Ellibereth]

Ellibereth ended both days with no vote out there. This is Not Good.

D1 Hoops was an almost def lynch and I think I unvoted at L-1 or something to check something? Don't remember.

Ditto with d-2 but with zor.

[Ellibereth]

Vote: SpyreX

Die Spy Die!

Didn't check but did you call him scum before nao. >.>

[Ellibereth]

Oh nevermind you did.

[Ellibereth]

VasudeVa (2) -- ooba, AdumbroDeus
ooba (1) -- iamausername
DrippingGoofball (1) -- zoraster
Seraphim (1) -- My Milked Eek
zoraster (9) -- ekiM, Plumegranate, Rhinox, SpyreX, DrippingGoofball, Kmd4390, Elmo, mith, Herodotus
mith (1) -- VasudeVa

Not voting: Ellibereth, Seraphim
17 alive, 9 to lynch.

People OFF Zor: Me, Sera, Eek, Zor, iam, ooba, Adumbro.
Something's wrong since I have a town read on evenone in that list.

[Ellibereth]

Oh, I left off Vas.

[Ellibereth]

/NOTE THE EKIM, PLUMEN OVERLAP WITH TAJO SUSPICIONS.
Well mainly Ekim, he just passing mentioned Plumen, but still.

Tired more later.

[Ellibereth]

uh, yeah, loads of time.
wait a sec.

[Ellibereth]

here's one: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 56&t=13942
I think there are like 10 more or something.

[Ellibereth]

Yeah....like every game I remember...we've worked on a few together.

[Ellibereth]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12929
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12821
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13011
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13460
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13271
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13942
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14015
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 56&t=13825

I think that's every complete game we've been in together? Too lazy to parse right now.

[Ellibereth]

Ugh wait some of those are hydras. Whatever.

[Ellibereth]

Anyway, why the whole thing?

[Ellibereth]

DGB did you leave out Sera sans 1315 or was it on purpose.

[Ellibereth]

Still be up for this.

Vote: ekiM

I have town reads on Iam(pz), sera and mith anyway..

[Ellibereth]

I WAS SAD, because of who you replaced.
THEN HOPEFUL, that I'm wrong.
THEN NOT HOPEFUL, because I don't want to be wrong. >.>
AH geez I have to look a this thing over again some time...

[Ellibereth]

SPY
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2448266
^^^
You don't see the town reekage in this?

[Ellibereth]

Vas, can you go through what's going through your head between 1332-1334?
I'm really curious...

[Ellibereth]

Ugh..

unvote

[Ellibereth]

Am I the only one that finds Vas's requesting replacement really wierd. >.>

[Ellibereth]

I really don't know.
Trying to recalibrate how retarded my scumdar's been...
Try me again tomorrow.

[Ellibereth]

K, Giving this another try.

[Ellibereth]

Fate, were we in a game where ooba also replaced in/fell behind and did a massive catchup? I just kinda remember then kinda don't and it's bothering me.

[Ellibereth]

FOR SOME REASON I KEEP THINKING THAT WAY EARLY SUPER RIGID LIST OF ALIGNMENTS THING IS MORE LIKELY COMING FROM TOWN BUT I DON'T KNOW WHY AND I KNOW IT'S EASY FOR SCUM TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT UGH.

PREVIEW:JESUS I'LL JUST ISO HIM AGAIN AND SEE I HAVEN'T DONE IT FOR A WHILE.

DOUBLE PREVIEW: OOBA TALKED ABOUT MITH/DGB PAIRING WUT? >.>

[Ellibereth]

Ugh, The first preview isn't a preview it's me replying and then to the quote...ah whatever.
I WANT TO VOTE PLUM BUT LET ME FIGURE OUT THIS OOBA THING FIRST K.

[Ellibereth]

FATE, ISO 8 IS HOLDING ME BACK.
ISO 8-10.

[Ellibereth]

I KNOW I WAS CALLING PLUM SCUM BEFORE WAGON ANALYSIS TOO BUT I HAVE TO/...awgerfvawrkagbatehaethnatenblfaebnanteq
just give me a little more time. >.>

[Ellibereth]

THIS RIGHT FATE?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9&start=25

NOW I see what you're seeing.
Just have to choose between Plum and ooba now...
Which has bigger wagon?

[Ellibereth]

Oh damn, they're both equal with no wagon on them.

[Ellibereth]

VOTE: OOBA

FOS: PLUM

[Ellibereth]

FATE I WANT TO BOUNCE OVER FOR A SEC I MIGHT BOUNCE BACK K.

UNVOTE, VOTE PLUM

[Ellibereth]

No. >.>

[Ellibereth]

FATE I JUST WANTED TO SEE HOW MAD RHINO WOULD BE IF I "SOILED" HIS WAGON.
Yeah.
And I remember now...

Unvote, Vote: ooba

[Ellibereth]

He posted.

[Ellibereth]

Fate: Thoughts on DGB?

Why are you asking him something he's already talked about. >.>

[Ellibereth]

Ooba and plume seem to be playing disturbing similar, I get a blend vibe from both of them, still I'd prefer nobody get lynched till Plume actually drops by and responds, if at all, I wanna see what she has to say before committing to a lynch.

Similar?
Vut?
Me no see it at all.
And don't get blend vibe either.

[Ellibereth]

2 days.
Ooba or Plumen.
People need to start choosing.
Nao.

mith (1) -- Seraphim
DrippingGoofball (3) -- mith, Plumegranate, iamausername
Not voting: AdumbroDeus, PokerFace

^^^That means you guyz.

[Ellibereth]

This game...do I have enough time to sleep on it or do I have to make a choice nao. >.>

[Ellibereth]

Ugh my reads this game. >.>
Kay, first things first.
I think if there is another town vig who has been shooting and getting blocked, they can claim since
1) scum already know who they are. and 2) They're worried that the guy will shoot someone that's scumz > town.
On that note, one of KMD's town reads is probably scum and doing the kill.

[Ellibereth]

Kmd's lack of being blocked.

[Ellibereth]

SCUM know's if the 4th is a vig though...and assuming it is and they've been consistently blocked they also know who it is
And I don't know anyone who wouldn't shoot for 3 nights in a row. >.>

[Ellibereth]

KMD, who are the people you think are town again?

[Ellibereth]

Reading it after it was over I thought DGB was town all the way to until she started going crazy post-rhino claim.
I had thought Pluman was town? >.> Prob very early....
AND I thought Ooba was town until Fate pulled me over and stuff.

And what questions on wagon analysis?

[Ellibereth]

Vote: Adumbro

[Ellibereth]

I meant that I wasn't here for most of the stuff that happened from DGB-claiming onwards so I read that part after it was over.
I got lazy and skipped the part where she did the actual analysis and just scrolled down toward the conclusions...
Yeah.

And I still don't get why it's bad for a 2nd vig if they're existing and shooting to claim. >.>
Otherwise the lack of KMD-blockage makes no sense rite?

[Ellibereth]

unvote

I'll try and think myself as soon as I can...:/

[Ellibereth]

Ugh...sorry for playing so bad that I HAD to get vigged by you Fate.
It's not at all your fault...

GG scum.