Newbie 980 ~ Game Over

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Post Post #375 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:37 am

Post by Mr. Flay »

Haylen wrote:Kov...never mention that game again, I am still absolutely furious about it.
Me too...
Mod:
Could you please not comment in-game about other games? It messes with my head...

In any case, the undisclosed fact that Haylen and Kov played together while this Day was going on is interesting. I don't actually think it makes them any more likely to be buddies here, but Kov was scum there and seemed to play a calmer game than here. Haylen played about the same, which makes sense given what she's said about her meta.

Suddenly Zajnet and Haylen are both at L-2, by my count. I'm not switching yet but I REALLY want to see what Zajnet says when he comes back. I'll be gone this evening attending some local theatre, will check back closer to midnight when I get home.
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Post Post #376 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:46 am

Post by CSL »

The Condescending Annoyances Vote Count



Haylen (4) Mr. Flay, Nexus, Beefster, Zajnet


Zajnet (3) jmurph3, Haylen, Kov


Nexus (1) Earlder1
Kov (1) a2rudeboy


Not Voting: ...




Deadline and Lynch info

Currently set for Thursday, July 29th, at 7:00pm EST


There are NINE alive, so FIVE votes on a player will lynch.


ONE day until deadline


Haylen is at L-1

Zajnet is at L-2



V/LA's and Prods

Mr. Flay is on a perpetual V/LA status


Haylen is V/LA during weekends


Etc.
Last edited by CSL on Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #377 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:48 am

Post by jmurph3 »

Ok, question for everyone, since talking today seems to have slowed down quite a bit. We seem to have two candidates most viable for lynch based on votes and what everyone has been saying thus far. These two candidates are, of course, Haylen and Zajnet. Now, the Zajnet wagon has sprung up in about 24 hours, but I somewhat doubt that a third wagon could similarly spring up. And since we have approximately 26 hours left before deadline, now is the time for us to gather our thoughts and definitively decide on a lynch. Therefore, my question to everyone is: who would you rather lynch today, Haylen or Zajnet? (Haylen and Zajnet are of course excluded, since I think given the choice, they would rather not vote for themselves)

Personally, I'm comfortable with either at the moment. Both have hurt town in very different ways, Zajnet with purposely underposting and Haylen with the...controversy surrounding her play, shall we say. At the moment, I feel Haylen's play is more scummy, whereas Zajnet's play is anti-town, if that makes any sense. So while I think either lynch would benefit town, I think a Haylen lynch is more likely to hit scum.
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Post Post #378 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:31 am

Post by Nexus »

On the other hand, I think that Haylen's been better analytically. Yes, she did lead the vote against me, but she was actually doing
something
.

Whereas Zajnet hasn't done much at all. But, then, we need to give him a chance to explain himself, whereas Haylen's had plenty of opportunities.

I dunno though. I'm happy to stick with Haylen, but I'm also happy to go across to Zajnet if needs be.
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Post Post #379 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:53 am

Post by Haylen »

I am gathering that you will not play a nice little game with me of answer the riddle: the person who answers correctly out of me and Zajnet doesn't get lynched. Heh[/joke]

Nexus, don't think that wagon on you was for nothing. I gained a lot of information from how everybody else acted, rather than from how you, yourself reacted. Hence one of the reasons why I think Flay is scummy. I could definately see a scumteam between Zajnet and Flay, I wouldn't mind either of their lynches today.
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Post Post #380 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:26 am

Post by Earlder1 »

Aloha everyone, I am caught up and ready to post.

I think the primary subject that deserves attention is the spontaneous Zaj wagon. It is clear that Zaj has not contributed much, as shown by his 1-3 sentence posts, and occasionally his one word posts such as "jmurph". Although, the seemingly only reason (except for one post of his) for him to be scummy is his lack of contribution, I agree that is a valid reason for a lynch, especially on day 1. We managed to hit 16 pages of activity, which is good, and of course that lends itself to actual cases being built because there is a pool of content to gather information from, but day 1 is still so early. Lynching the lurker is definitely a possibiliy in terms of what will enable town to collectively win later on. even if Zaj is town, his lack of contribution is anti-town, and some would say I am not contributing as much as I should, but I am posting when I can and trying to post content. Regardless, my point is that a Zaj lynch is not a bad idea, and I definitely identify with the reasons behind it.

One other interesting thing about Zaj is this post here:
Zajnet wrote: Only that you're the only other person I've really seen as scummy so far. I would need to ISO you better before wanting to lynch you, but you're the only other person I'd vote for right now besides Haylen, unless somebody brought up what I find compelling evidence on somebody.
This is in response to Jmurph questioning why he would be Zaj's second choice for a lynch. This is the second time that Zaj says he would need to do an iso on someone to get a better read. Well, do a frickin' iso then! Zaj adds stimpulations to his scumhunting, which is quite suspect. He says he would take a closer look at Flay IF Haylen flips town, and now he says he would need to do an iso on Jmurph IF he would consider lynching him. Part of staying on track with this game is doing those things that will give you better reads, whether they br prodding someone, doing an iso, or looking at meta. For goodness sake, do them! 1-3 sentences every day or two does not help the town one bit. Also, why so undecided this late into the day. There are 16 pages of content to look at, and all Zaj has to say can be paraphrased as "Haylen is scummy and maybe Jmurph". I'm sorry, but that is not much of an opinion. Overall, I would be perfectly fine with a Zaj lynch, but, as mentioned, his response is critical before this turns into action.

Now, moving on from him to Haylen, I'm getting less and less happy with this wagon. Admittedly, Haylen has posted scummy things , and has absolutely no answer for those (myself included) who refute her claim that people are twisting her words.

@Haylen

Iso me and read my third post from the bottom (as of this one's posting) and please respond. Also, feel free to respond to any of the other times people have quoted you to prove they are not twisting your words.

Eithe way, as of late, this wagon is losing steam as it probably should. Her posting has been much better and even though she claims being bipolar as a defense, her posts have been more analytical (as Nexus mentioned). Furthermore, I think the loss of Haylen would greatly inhibit the town's ability to stimulate discussion on day 2. She has been one of the more consistent and content filled posters in this game, and I feel that cannot be overlooked when considering a lynch candidate for day 1. All in all, Haylen is still suspect in my mind, but I would rather not have a Haylen lynch today.

And lastly, there is Nexus. Nexus asked recently why I still think he is scummy and my answer is that nothing has changed. All of the earlier posts that incriminated you have not left my memory, and those were enough to convince me of your scummy alignment before. Some will say that Nexus' poor defense is a newb tell more than anything, but to that I say hogwash. His reactions did not sit well with me, and still don't. His posts as of late are not saying too much, but merely echoing other people's posts. His reasons for any suspicions are sloppy at best and often just plain assumptive and illogical. I don't like his play.

Just briefly, in temrs of Kov, several red flags that were raised for me abotu him earlier have not really panned out and I see him in a neutral light as of now. Although claiming to vote and not change it is quite stubborn and anti-town (bloodthirsty as Flay calls it), I see this more in a newb light than anything. Also, I find it hard to believe that scum would come on that strongly, but that's just my opinion.

So overall, I am going to pute my vote on Zaj for the aforementioned reasons and also because I don't see a Nexus lynch occurring today. This puts him at L-1, so before anybody hammers, wait for his explanation.

Unvote: Nexus; Vote: Zajnet
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Post Post #381 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:37 am

Post by jmurph3 »

I'm going to
unvote
for the moment to avoid a potential quicklynch, as I want to hear from people who have not yet responded to the Zajnet situation (including Zajnet himself).
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Post Post #382 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:41 am

Post by jmurph3 »

EBWOP: whoops I mean
unvote
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Post Post #383 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:46 am

Post by Nexus »

I'll just quickly defend myself and say that I'm still learning how to play, but I'll bear that in mind, earlder.

In other, more annoying news.

It's nearly midnight where I am, I dunno what timezones everyone else in in, but I assume the American ones. So, I'm gonna be unconscious for at least 6 hours, possibly 9. I apologise for this. I'm going to
unvote
so as a quicklynch doesn't occur before the Zajnet situation has been explored.
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Post Post #384 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:48 am

Post by jmurph3 »

@Nexus: given as I already unvoted, I don't see why you need to as well.
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Post Post #385 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:50 am

Post by Nexus »

Because Haylen was on L-1 as well, so Earlder or rudeboy could just come in and lynch her...
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Post Post #386 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:51 am

Post by CSL »

The Deadline Awareness Vote Count



Haylen (3) Mr. Flay, Beefster, Zajnet

Zajnet (3) Kov, Haylen, Earlder1


Kov (1) a2rudeboy


Not Voting: jmurph3, Nexus




Deadline and Lynch info

Currently set for Thursday, July 29th, at 7:00pm EST


There are NINE alive, so FIVE votes on a player will lynch.


ONE day until deadline


Haylen is at L-2

Zajnet is at L-2



V/LA's and Prods

Mr. Flay is on a perpetual V/LA status


Haylen is V/LA during weekends


Etc.
Last edited by CSL on Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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"I can't kill my own best friend, especially when I can't do shit at all!" - Tragedy


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Post Post #387 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:52 am

Post by jmurph3 »

@Nexus: My bad, I thought you were on the Zaj wagon for some reason. Nevermind :)
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Post Post #388 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:54 am

Post by Nexus »

EDBWOP Let's say Earlder or a2rudeboy is Zajnet's scumbuddy. And they see he's getting heat. So, they could've quicklynched Haylen before my unvote, meaning that they could then night kill Flay, or whoever else was most vehement at Zajnet. So, by unvoting, I'm preventing that from happening until I wake up again.

Sorry if that isn't the right thing to do. It made sense at the time. you were unvoting from zajnet, keeping him from L-1, I was unvoting from Haylen to do the same.

You posted at the same time as me x] That makes it redundant. I'll leave it up so people can see my way of thinking, however.
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Post Post #389 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:27 pm

Post by Earlder1 »

Lol, I understand possibly a2rudeboy, but you think I would waltz in and hammer Haylen after my last post? Your fear is unfounded, Nexus.
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Post Post #390 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:34 pm

Post by Nexus »

Well, I was just using you both as an example 'cos you both aren't on either of the lynch wagons.

Also that was me being incredibly thick, and forgetting you'd already voted Zajnet. You were on a lynch wagon, and that was me making a monumental mistake x]

Apologies! But yeah, my point about rudeboy stands.
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Post Post #391 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:35 pm

Post by Nexus »

Oh, mod: you've still got earlder voting me on the latest round up post.

/actually goes to sleep.
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Post Post #392 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:35 pm

Post by Zajnet »

Wow, a lot has happened since I last checked this thread. An iso of jmurph actually leaves me leaning town on him. Looking over Earlder and rudeboy say a different thing altogether. It seems like they are both just saying things to make it look like they're posting a lot, but it seems that all they're really doing is rewording what others have said.

Haylen's uncharacteristic quietness since the wagon on me started makes me lean harder towards scum with her. She seems to be sitting on the sidelines hoping that I'll be lynched. If I was in her position as a townie, I would be actively participating in the analysis of whoever was in my shoes.
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Post Post #393 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:39 pm

Post by Haylen »

Earlder1 wrote:In post 285:
Haylen wrote: ...I've told you who the scum are...
I am not twisting your words at all. You claim right here to know who scum are. No one is twisting your words at all. I think moving away from that defense would greatly help your case because misinterpretation and twisting are completely different. I don't see anyone as maliciously takin what you say and changing it to suit their wishes. This case with me is a prime example. I did not twist your words. That is exactly what you said, and claiming to know who scum are is a bit of a scum slip because only scum can really know who scum are.
If you are going to work on me being scum based on semantics, then I think I'm going to play the same game and completely void this post before I even get started. How can I slip up over who the scum are, if I gave you two names and used a plural and there are only two scum in the game? This is the sort of thing I mean...perhaps I'm using the wrong word when I say my words are being twisted, but it seems to me that the whole case on be is based entirely on semantics.

I'm going to ask now how many people read that game I linked to, the one with the mega mega post. It's important. You should learn from it. The primary reason for me being lynched in that game (other than having a framer and a cop target me on the same night) is because I kept arguing the same thing that the majority of you are. "You said you're certain ... is scum, thus you must be because how else would you know who scum are." The quicker you learn to play the game based on subjectivity and meta rather than relying on semantics to find scum, the easy and more accurately a scumhunter you will be.

I'm sorry, it's taken me this long to realise whats been going on. This isn't a mere case of twisting words, it's much deeper.

The Whole Asking for a Scum/Town List Thing

What Haylen Sees:
My point of view on this is that Haylen was just asking everybody to do what she was doing at that time (which is why she excused herself from doing it), which was do an iso of every player and write their opinions on them. However, town reads can be useful information to the scum, so she did not tell everybody that she wanted the list to have a scale on it ie Haylen didn't want to know who the most 'protown' player was. She just wanted some sort of opinion from them.

Town-Flay's side of the Chessboard:
Again, it is his belief that Haylen specifically meant what she said, ie taking what she said literally. She wanted everybody to make their most protown reads known in order to make it easier for scum. Thus it was his believe that she is scum. This would mean that Flay is town and that Haylen is scum. Haylen, an experienced player should know what she is talking about and needs to be careful with her words. Thus to Flay, Haylen is scum.

Now lets flip the board and presume that Flay is scum:
Flay is a very experienced player, much much more than Haylen. He knows that. He knows that he is much better at manipulating and would have to be subtle in order to get a mislynch so early in the game and to make it through to endgame aswell. What subtler way than to twist a persons words without appearing as you are doing so - just by taking what they say literally. A experienced player would never use semantics to get a lynch if they are town - if they are scum, however, it's much easier to get away with it. Ditto with the Role vs Playstyle thing. He can't argue that Haylen wouldn't do something as town because she am experienced player, because that means that he also wouldn't use semantics to build a case as an experienced town player. It's hypocritical and if he changes his mind and says 'no no', then that's called backtracking which is scummy aswell. This is a Catch 22 situation, there's no way he can get out of this one.

Thus why, I don't think there is any way that Flay can be town.

EDIT: Actually, Zajnet, I've been writing this lovely long post PROVING that there is no way that Flay can be town. Now tell me, are you his scumbuddy?
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Post Post #394 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:40 pm

Post by Haylen »

Oh, btw. Checkmate.
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Post Post #395 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:59 pm

Post by Earlder1 »

@Haylen

Your entire case on Flay is based off of your opinion that "a experienced player would never use semantics to get a lynch if they are town...". This is merely an opinion. I don't think it's a stretch to misinterpret what you meant from what you said. Most of the town did, in fact, think you wanted a full list, and just because you meant something different, does not mean that someone who takes what you said literally is scum. If anything, this is all just misinterpretation. I don't think that lends itself to giving away anybody's alignment.
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Post Post #396 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:06 pm

Post by Haylen »

Earlder1 wrote:@Haylen

Your entire case on Flay is based off of your opinion that "a experienced player would never use semantics to get a lynch if they are town...". This is merely an opinion. I don't think it's a stretch to misinterpret what you meant from what you said. Most of the town did, in fact, think you wanted a full list, and just because you meant something different, does not mean that someone who takes what you said literally is scum. If anything, this is all just misinterpretation. I don't think that lends itself to giving away anybody's alignment.
Mafia is a subjective game. Scumtells can't be generalised to the whole population of mafiascum.

It's the same as with me! The whole case is based on the opinion that "an experienced player wouldn't do this and that." That's how ridiculous it is.
My case on Flay is that "a much much more experienced player wouldn't do this"

If I cant be emotionally charged and be town, then why can a newbie?
If Flay can use semantics to make everyone believe that I'm scum, then why can't I throw the fact that apparently, experience is everything back at him.

There's no way out.

It's either admit the use of semantics and therefore be scum. Or admit that the case on my was ridiculous anyway.
Seriously. Read your role PM before playing.
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Post Post #397 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:30 pm

Post by Beefster »

After seeing Earlder's post, I was about to switch my vote, but Haylen keeps digging herself deeper, so I'm not anymore. I still think that Haylen is trying to use strawman-like (not the best way to describe it) reasons to hide her OMGUS, something I'd expect from a newb, but not from an IC.

I'm willing to switch over to Zaj if no concensus is reached by [my] morning.
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Post Post #398 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:42 pm

Post by Mr. Flay »

Wow, I was prepared to flip to Zajnet, but Haylen's last post just REEKS. "never" is a terrible word to use in Mafia. I use semantics All The Time. I'm a nitpicky, wall-posting player. You know this, I'm assuming, but you're bound and determined to make me out to be scum. You've already decided, in fact, so everything I do looks scummy to you (much like you did earlier this day, for me).
Haylen wrote:It's the same as with me! The whole case is based on the opinion that "an experienced player wouldn't do this and that." That's how ridiculous it is.
My case on Flay is that "a much much more experienced player wouldn't do this"

If I cant be emotionally charged and be town, then why can a newbie?
If Flay can use semantics to make everyone believe that I'm scum, then why can't I throw the fact that apparently, experience is everything back at him.

There's no way out.

It's either admit the use of semantics and therefore be scum. Or admit that the case on my was ridiculous anyway.
So basically, you're boiling it down to "if Flay can do it, I can do it too?" Terrible motivation. Vote stands, Haylen.

Semantics is a perfectly valid way of scumhunting. It's the basic of lots of small tells, like catching slipups and waffling.
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Post Post #399 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:00 pm

Post by Zajnet »

Zajnet wrote:If you flip town, I'd take another look at Flay, for one thing.
@Haylen: I think that Flay could very well be scum, and I'll take a better look at him once we know your alignment.
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