Newbie 988-Apocalypse(Over)-Scum win

[yabbaguy]

I'm noticing a great trend of dichotomy pushing, in other words, there's a lot of "if one person flips {role}, the other HAS to be scum."

I don't get how Adrien is implicated by these flips of kyle or MoB, or why they're being mentioned in the same sentence. And I think Beanman's to blame for planting this idea. Explain it please; ISO* would help here.

ISOlation- notice the drop down menus at the bottom of the page? Set the one that says All Users to the name of one person you want to read in isolation. A page with just their posts will be loaded. Feel free to refer to post numbers as ISO-5, ISO-6, assuming the posts are sorted Old -> New, which they are by default.

[Tuxhedoh]

Kyle's flip could be scum. Believe me, MoB is number two on my list.

And this is where IC's and SE's are needed in a Newbie game for sure as far as I'm concerned. Why would he not claim VT? If he claimed scum, we'd lynch, no? would we only not lynch if he claimed Cop or Doctor? On Day 1, this would make him a for sure target of the scum if he is not... almost guaranteeing a NK.

If he is VT, and we lynch, we're down a townie, but we are one step closer to outing the scum. I demanded he claim to move the game along, but quite honestly didn't know what to do no matter what was claimed.

Even on the chopping block, Kyle has not made a case for why we shouldn't, apart from his claiming VT.

Preview Edit: Bean I'm following the logic, but I'm not sure I'm ready to vote one way or another.

I won't be able to be around this evening as all of this plays out. I get to go help teach some Improv. I don't want to miss what happens....no body post until I'm back... 10:30 EST

[yabbaguy]

EDT, you mean? I'm speaking as a guy from Massachusetts.

More later.

[Beanman]

I'm noticing a great trend of dichotomy pushing, in other words, there's a lot of "if one person flips {role}, the other HAS to be scum."

I don't get how Adrien is implicated by these flips of kyle or MoB, or why they're being mentioned in the same sentence. And I think Beanman's to blame for planting this idea. Explain it please; ISO* would help here.

ISOlation- notice the drop down menus at the bottom of the page? Set the one that says All Users to the name of one person you want to read in isolation. A page with just their posts will be loaded. Feel free to refer to post numbers as ISO-5, ISO-6, assuming the posts are sorted Old -> New, which they are by default.

This is where misquoting becomes bad. I said, if one flips scum, there is a "good case." Adrien is completely implicated. He has been pushing Kyle the hardest, while he has applyed NO pressure on MoB(even though she's "number 2" on his list...) and also, MoB stated she's going to just use Adriens logic in her votes, as taken from post 134. Also Adrien said MoB was completely off the hook(only to "change it later") in the same post he continued to continue to push the vote on kyle.

[Adrien C]

Tux, either me or Yabba is guaranteed to be around next phase so you'll at least have one of the non-newbs around.

[Adrien C]

@Beanman: O RLY?

Do I know you're town yet? No. Do I know you're scum yet? No. However, until we have evidence even leaning towards the latter, you're a benefit to the newbies to at least learn the mechanics of the game, which I'm sure even if you are scum, you will at least give them an introductory course in. I was just uncomfortable with him bringing you to L-3 so quickly. As the IC, you're usually the first to die at night, so we need to use as much of this first day phase to let you do your IC duties. His reason for voting you also was by observing your online time, which is a reasoning I'm not too comfortable with using someone's online time against them. Plus, a personal quirk of mine is when my random vote starts having wagoners when mine was just random.

I only FoSed him because I'm not going to go out and say that he's scum.

As for who I'm leaning towards... VOTE: Makeorbreak

Lurking much?

Makeorbreak, that kind of attitude is not very good for the spirit of the game and frowned upon at MS.

Implicate me.

[Beanman]

@Beanman: O RLY?

Do I know you're town yet? No. Do I know you're scum yet? No. However, until we have evidence even leaning towards the latter, you're a benefit to the newbies to at least learn the mechanics of the game, which I'm sure even if you are scum, you will at least give them an introductory course in. I was just uncomfortable with him bringing you to L-3 so quickly. As the IC, you're usually the first to die at night, so we need to use as much of this first day phase to let you do your IC duties. His reason for voting you also was by observing your online time, which is a reasoning I'm not too comfortable with using someone's online time against them. Plus, a personal quirk of mine is when my random vote starts having wagoners when mine was just random.

I only FoSed him because I'm not going to go out and say that he's scum.

As for who I'm leaning towards... VOTE: Makeorbreak

Lurking much?

Makeorbreak, that kind of attitude is not very good for the spirit of the game and frowned upon at MS.

Implicate me.

More easily done now with this than before. The first quote, is easy. She was at L4 at that point, page 3, no danger in being lynched. Also a good spot for semi-experienced scum(see what i did there?) to distance yourself from your partner.

Your second quote is completely taken out of context, was used as a reply to Makeorbreak bringing up info on mafiascum site rules, in which led to MoB replying a claim she was "crying." I don't believe this happened(who cries over an online boards GAME, you know something that's fun, and not painful...) so it doesn't apply to you and her being partnered up at all.

As for the rest of the implication, check out all of page 6. MoB doesn't hide her Scumness at all. Then you go ahead and say she's completely off the hook(which you later change, not sure I believe you.) You say she's number 2 and kyle is number 1. Except kyle has basically fixed everything you've accused him of. He's provided content and reasoning(as little as it was) and he's actively trying to participate. Where as MoB, is still lurking, not actively participating, and all but screams "I'm scum" in all of her posts, and has been trying to buddy up with you, all game, Adrien. If kyle flips scum, then more power to us. However I also find it odd, how EAGER some people are in getting a claim this early on day one, with 2 weeks left to play it out and do more scumhunting. There is evidence, it doesn't make you guilty, it just means your worthy of suspicion in my eyes, and as stated previously by at least one other person, I'm not the only one who's connected some dots between you two.

I do believe that's a succesful implication.

[montgomery]

Makeorbreak isn't an "obviously erractic" player, they are an obvious troll. Nobody makes statements about swinging their hair attractively and reacts that way she does that is serious. Trolls purposes are to ruin games, the longer Makeorbreak is kept around the more potential they have to ruin the game. It is better to get rid of them now while we have a ml then having them continue to troll later on when we can't afford a lynch of them if they are town. It is best to eleminate trolls early in the game then we can focus on kyle and etc.

[Adrien C]

Second quote: She was freaking out, my vote was on her (probably the cause of her flipping), and my post was basically "CHILL".

[tanstalas]

Makeorbreak isn't an "obviously erractic" player, they are an obvious troll. Nobody makes statements about swinging their hair attractively and reacts that way she does that is serious. Trolls purposes are to ruin games, the longer Makeorbreak is kept around the more potential they have to ruin the game. It is better to get rid of them now while we have a ml then having them continue to troll later on when we can't afford a lynch of them if they are town. It is best to eleminate trolls early in the game then we can focus on kyle and etc.

I don't know if she is so much a troll as if she is confused on Mafia... She mentioned that the email address that she had that was found to be a dude was an "RP" email. I am assuming that is an acronym for "Role-Play". So maybe she thinks that Mafia is a role-playing type game?

I do agree that she and kyle are my #1 and #2 suspects, I just find that kyle may be the bigger threat ATM as he is an experienced player. Although if she doesn't start posting soon I'd be tempted to switch my vote to her and go after kyle tomorrow.

Just wondering as well what are everyones top 3 suspects so far in the game? I have already mentioned my top 2, my third would probably be yabba. I'm still wary as he asked for a deadline, he explained his reasoning for it, and it is not so much that he is acting really scummy, however aside from kyle and MoB - I don't really have a read on anyone else... yet

On saying the above though, if we do lynch MoB and she flips townie, I may put Kyle to the back-burner and pursue montgomery - as the majority of her posts this game have implicated MoB (With understanding as she is being very erratic) - or it could be that she is scum herself and sees it as an easy bandwagon-lynch vote.

All this talk about Adrien being scummy though - I just don't see it.. maybe it's my inexperience.

[Adrien C]

All this talk about Adrien being scummy though - I just don't see it.. maybe it's my inexperience.

No, it's because you're right. I have to agree with most of the points in your post. My top two are definitely also Kyle and MoB, however, if Kyle flips scum, Beanman might be a pretty good candidate for his scumpartner. He's trying to discredit Kyle's most outspoken attacker and he's been taking my comments out of context. So I guess my top three, in this order, is Kyle, MoB, and Bean. To me, what yabba did, asking for a deadline, may not be as big a deal as you may think it is.

[Beanman]

@ Montgomery. Here's what I'm thinking, 2 of the 4 people on kyles BW are mafia. Getting someone to claim this early on in day 1 does not benefit town. This is for a number of reasons. The first, is if he claimed a power role. That would actually be the worst case scenario. Then town would be excruciatingly screwed, whether we lynched or didn't lynch. The 2nd, is now we have 2 people who are definately not going to be killed during any night phase. Now we have 2 potential mislynches. I think all 4 of the people on kyles BW look scummy and opportunistic, especially MoB who's outright claimed that she's opportunistic.

Let's look at the two prime suspects
Kyle-accused of active lurking, piggybacking ideas
MoB-accused of active lurking, piggybacking ideas, buddying up, AtE, opportunistic, playing an individual game and not a team game.

The problem is i don't see any benefit of NOT voting either of them.

@ Adrien-would you rather I hammer and clear his name altogether?

[Adrien C]

Let me know if I am reading (in between the lines a bit) your post right, Bean...you think that if Kyle turns up town, you think MoB is def scum?

[Beanman]

@ Montgomery. Here's what I'm thinking, 2 of the 4 people on kyles BW are mafia. Getting someone to claim this early on in day 1 does not benefit town. This is for a number of reasons. The first, is if he claimed a power role. That would actually be the worst case scenario. Then town would be excruciatingly screwed, whether we lynched or didn't lynch. The 2nd, is now we have 2 people who are definately not going to be killed during any night phase.

Now we have 2 potential mislynches.

I think all 4 of the people on kyles BW look scummy and opportunistic, especially MoB who's outright claimed that she's opportunistic.

Let's look at the two prime suspects
Kyle-accused of active lurking, piggybacking ideas
MoB-accused of active lurking, piggybacking ideas, buddying up, AtE, opportunistic, playing an individual game and not a team game.

The problem is i don't see any benefit of NOT voting either of them.

@ Adrien-would you rather I hammer and clear his name altogether?

[Adrien C]

Ok. So you think both of them might be town?

[Beanman]

EBWOP-Any of you could be mafia, any of you could be town. I'm not 100% convinced of anything right now, it's only day 1. I'm saying MoB is the better wagon at this point. She's simply more guilty than kyle is, more evidence, more everything. That "inexperience" that tanstalas thinks of her, is detrimental to town.

[Adrien C]

This is Day 1. And you are right, we don't know if anyone is anyone just yet. You really believe that MakeorBreak is a better lynch candidate than Kyle?

[tanstalas]

That "inexperience" that tanstalas thinks of her, is detrimental to town.

Hmmm?

I never made any posts in regards to my inexperience in regards to MoB, please don't put words in my mouth. I mentioned Adrien not seeing scummy to me in my inexperience. For MoB I have said in a few posts that she is behaving rather odd and that she is in my "top 3" list.

[tanstalas]

EBWOP: Sorry Beanman, just re-read your post, you are saying that my feelings that she is inexperienced is an excuse for her behavior I assume?

I do tolerate inexperience to a point, however, there are a ton of FAQ's and posts on here and other sites that give you some theory behind the game - and I have mentioned that to MoB in a previous post or two. I do not think she has taken my advice, that is why I agree with you that she is detrimental to the town. This is a newbie game and we are here to learn, she does not even seem to be making an attempt to learn the game.

[yabbaguy]

First off, I wish I had made it clear that "reasoned OMGUS" is oxymoronic. I saw that going through Makeorbreak's iso.

@tan: I did explain my deadline query. I said that EVERY SINGLE OTHER NEWBIE GAME THAT I'VE SEEN OTHER THAN THIS ONE states the deadline up-front since it's mostly an ironclad 3 weeks. I was merely double-checking. Kind of a dick move to be double-checking the mod, but hey, I was just making sure he had it all under control. :\

Why are you dabbling into three suspects with only two Mafia in the game? Are you saying I'm a backup if one of the two is a mislynch?

@Bean: I believe Adrien's "NOT off the hook" remark, myself.

I don't think your implication is scummy contriving now, but I'm still going to disagree with it on the basis that Adrien could very well believe that kyle is scum, and if so, Makeorbreak is town. If that's the case, then Adrien has every right to operate on the assumption to suggest kyle is scum, then opt for MoB if kyle flips Vanilla. That's my take on it, as I've taken a similar approach myself, I'd argue.

@montgomery: Yuck. I really,

really

don't like that you've suddenly resorted to what appears to be a utility lynch of Makeorbreak, one where the lynch is solely used to get crazy shenanigans out of the game. Sure, she/he's erratic.

But is MoB Mafia?

I haven't heard you dwell on her scumtells all game, at best as of recently.

My vibe is that you're on for all the wrong reasons, which is scummy as well.

[yabbaguy]

Does everyone the kyle wagon really want to end the Day now? I don't. :\

[yabbaguy]

EBWOP II

on the kyle wagon?

[Adrien C]

I'll let this go on a little longer.

UNVOTE: Kyle
But I will put it back on if I deem it necessary.

[Beanman]

@Adrien. Alright, I'm going to be as transparent as possible, and hope nothing get's lost in translation. I feel like im in a predicament. I think one of the two need to be lynched today. The reason is neither is going to be killed tonight, and suspicion will still be there day 2, because of the strong that doesn't help us.(so if both are town, the potential for 2 mislynches is possible) So one probably needs to die. Kyle has already claimed. He claimed VT. I'm looking at what this tells us. He's either playing easy mafia and going for the majority role. or he's actually VT. Honestly if I was at L1 on D1, and new my death was imminent, I would claim a PR, in hopes that I get a CC, for my partner to kill that night. If no one CC's than he's pretty much set to last till at least the next day. It's a riskier play, but the pro's way outweigh the con's imo. Unfortunately, we don't know if he's maf or not. If he doesn't die now, a potential mafia could escape.

MoB is either very inexperienced, is brilliant at this game and playing obv mafia as a way to get people to believe she's inexperienced, she's a troll, or is just really bad at playing mafia. I'm not sure which. Unfortunately, and I mean no offense to her if she is extreme newb or not, but this is a game, based on deceit. So I simply can not just give her the benefit of the doubt. Therefore she's probably scum in my eyes.

I wish at this point kyle didn't claim, but now that he has claimed, it might be best to lynch him, because at worst we ML a VT instead of a potential PR, at best, the BW is right and he's scum. At the same time, MoB's "inexperience" or w/e you want to call it, will hurt town in the long run, more then it will help. So honestly, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. Hopeing someone else makes that hard choice so I don't have to... lol.

@yabbaguy-I very well could be wrong. Just putting the observation out there, to potentially look back on, on another day. I do agree with your assessment on Montgomery. It is very suspicious.

@tanstalas-Sorry i took your statement of her being confused on mafia, as inexperienced. Didn't mean to put words in your mouth. But yeah I think that miss communication is cleared up.

[Adrien C]

@Adrien. Alright, I'm going to be as transparent as possible, and hope nothing get's lost in translation. I feel like im in a predicament. I think one of the two need to be lynched today. The reason is neither is going to be killed tonight, and suspicion will still be there day 2, because of the strong that doesn't help us.(so if both are town, the potential for 2 mislynches is possible) So one probably needs to die.

Kyle has already claimed. He claimed VT. I'm looking at what this tells us. He's either playing easy mafia and going for the majority role. or he's actually VT. Honestly if I was at L1 on D1, and new my death was imminent, I would claim a PR, in hopes that I get a CC, for my partner to kill that night. If no one CC's than he's pretty much set to last till at least the next day. It's a riskier play, but the pro's way outweigh the con's imo.

Unfortunately, we don't know if he's maf or not. If he doesn't die now, a potential mafia could escape.

MoB is either very inexperienced, is brilliant at this game and playing obv mafia as a way to get people to believe she's inexperienced, she's a troll, or is just really bad at playing mafia. I'm not sure which. Unfortunately, and I mean no offense to her if she is extreme newb or not, but this is a game, based on deceit. So I simply can not just give her the benefit of the doubt. Therefore she's probably scum in my eyes.

I wish at this point kyle didn't claim, but now that he has claimed, it might be best to lynch him, because at worst we ML a VT instead of a potential PR, at best, the BW is right and he's scum. At the same time, MoB's "inexperience" or w/e you want to call it, will hurt town in the long run, more then it will help. So honestly, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. Hopeing someone else makes that hard choice so I don't have to... lol.

@yabbaguy-I very well could be wrong. Just putting the observation out there, to potentially look back on, on another day. I do agree with your assessment on Montgomery. It is very suspicious.

@tanstalas-Sorry i took your statement of her being confused on mafia, as inexperienced. Didn't mean to put words in your mouth. But yeah I think that miss communication is cleared up.

The bold part is WIFOM, but I understand what you are trying to say.