Newbie 985 Game over

[NashiNashi]

Alright, FakeGod, let me ask you a few questions.

Why are you rushing us into voting right now, while we still have plenty of time left over before the deadline? Why would not voting right now equals wanting a no lynch? That are some pretty heavy logic fallacies to me.

[Zachrulez]

Parker, you know no lynch is a bad thing and you know why. You don't need me to explain that to you. With the manner in which you voted for no lynch, and the fact that we seem to have a pretty competent group of mafia players from the get go who ALREADY seem to understand that scumhunting and lynching are the way to go, it's unnecessary to waste time explaining that point.

You're blowing up a non explanation of no lynch into being an issue where it's not, mostly because:
1. A newbie didn't vote no lynch, you did.
2. There really isn't much of a threat of a no lynch actually happening as of now.
3. If there was in the face of an approaching deadline, I would explain then why it's a good idea for the town to actually lynch someone.

On another note, too scummy to be scum is a fallacy, and claiming that your play is baiting is just ridiculous.

[FakeGod]

Alright, FakeGod, let me ask you a few questions.

Why are you rushing us into voting right now, while we still have plenty of time left over before the deadline? Why would not voting right now equals wanting a no lynch? That are some pretty heavy logic fallacies to me.

Because unlike opinions, which are flimsy and changes a lot, votes are solid records of what stances people took. If people present their opinions without actually voting, then they could be scum attempting to slip through the radar by both seemingly scumhunt yet not actually contributing toward the game, and their records would be hard to find because it wouldn't last in the vote counts. I want people to commit their votes when they present their opinions so that I see they're serious in their logic, and that they're not trying to slip by without leaving records.

And of course, not voting isn't same as wanting a no lynch. I wanted people to vote, so I warned those who are not voting that if their status of 'not voting' were to continue, I would take them as wanting a no lynch.

[Abe27342]

Current opinions: FakeGod's pressuring people to vote didn't seem scummy to me, and I'm think that he's just a semi-lurking townie (unfortunately, I've been lurking a bit too as I don't quite know what to say). I agree with FakeGod. Voting is good.

Unvote: FakeGod

Parker's a bit.. puzzling. He looks quite suspicious, but I'm not sure I want to put him at L-1.
I'm still inclined to believe Kalofer is town, off of a gut feeling.

VOTE: NashiNashi
Why do you believe FakeGod is scum? Was his answer about why he wanted people to vote satisfactory?

[NashiNashi]

@Abe27342

Do I "believe" that he is a scum? At this stage, I don't believe anyone are solidly set scum. I do find it bizarre that he is rushing a lynch while we are nowhere near the deadline. This coupled with "if you don't vote now you are a scum"seems like the sort of logic fallacy that could easily be used by a scum to lynch not based on scumminess, but based on the speed of playing style. If we are close to the end of the deadline however, I would consider his actions far more understandable.

His explanation is satisfactory regard to wanting a lynch, however there are still things I find unsatisfactory. And FakeGod, this is where I disagree with you.

A vote is not a solid commitment, people could unvote the moment they changed their mind. On the scale of usefulness, I would consider a thoughtful analysis on talking about scumminess and explaining why a far better move, especially in a newbie game.

[DavidParker]

I still stand my vote for you DavidParker. You've vote hopped off me because no one else was buying your ploy and now you're trying to build yet another false case. I say you talk too much.

Wait a second, other people are going to explain my votes now??

Last time I checked, I'm the only one capable of explaining my own votes... Oh, and here zach said we were playing with a group of capable players!

[Kalofer]

I really don't know who to vote for.

[FakeGod]

Oh, and here zach said we were playing with a group of capable players!

I really don't know who to vote for.

Whoever you think is scummiest.

[Zachrulez]

I still stand my vote for you DavidParker. You've vote hopped off me because no one else was buying your ploy and now you're trying to build yet another false case. I say you talk too much.

Wait a second, other people are going to explain my votes now??

Last time I checked, I'm the only one capable of explaining my own votes... Oh, and here zach said we were playing with a group of capable players!

You could feel free to give a better explanation for your vote. What I got out of your explanation that I understood was that you intentionally played scummy to "bait me" (Think very hard about exactly what's wrong with that statement.) and that you don't think I'm being a good enough IC by pointing out and explaining game theory things that I apparently should be explaining as standard operating procedure even though no one has asked and everyone but you seems to understand the value of lynching over no lynching anyway. (If a newbie took a pro no lynch stance, you might have an argument. As it was, you did.)

[Excedrin]

Vote Count

FakeGod (1): NashiNashi
Zachrulez (1): DavidParker
DavidParker (3): Zombeh-Pug, tvellalott, Zachrulez
Abe27342 (1): FakeGod
Kalofer (1): Nikanor
NashiNashi (1): Abe27342

not voting: Kalofer
alive: 9 majority: 5

[Zachrulez]

Parker's play and tactics, as horrible as they look, I just have a feeling that he's town. (I've seen that horrible baiting tactic done before, and it's a town playstyle I've seen used by a particularly bad player somewhere else.)

Kalofer's most recent post, in addition to a look at his iso is troubling.

Unvote: Vote: Kalofer

[Kalofer]

troubling in what way?

[Zachrulez]

For all you've posted, you've actually said very little about who you actually think is scum.

[Kalofer]

Yes that's true, I myself don't know who to think is actually scum. That's mainly because whenever I find something for which to criticise someone in my mind, the immediate defense for that person also appears and as a result I can't figure out if he's town or mafia. Two things about me are that I hate and try to never deal with absolutes and that I don't like making mistakes and a third is that I treat a vote very seriously (for some reason). And because of this I have so far withheld my vote. Now that you bring it up however, I'm thinking what the heck. Right now I find FakeGod and David to be most suspicious (though not in that order), Fake because I'm starting to believe he is playing dumb (after skimming a previous game of his) and because now that I think about it his previous behaviour seems scummier than my defense of it could excuse and David because of his behaviour so far. But the more I am prompted to think of them as scum the more I turn my attention towards Tvell, Nishi and zombeh who could easily be scum under the guises of townies. In short I am indecisive and very mixed up but since it is a game after all VOTE: FakeGod

[Zombeh-Pug]

Unvote

Probably the only person who still had a RVS vote. =p

(unfortunately, I've been lurking a bit too as I don't quite know what to say)

I'm going to

Vote:Abe

, for having a pretty crappy excuse after he self-proclaims to be lurking.

[FakeGod]

Leaning town with zach and nashi.

Can't tell what David's doing, but he's experienced, and I trust that he knows what he's doing.

@Kalofer: I just hate misunderstandings, so I ask people to clarify their positions crystal clear.

and people who take wishy-washy positions and try not to attack any one person too much tend to be scum in my experience. So......

Unvote, FoS: Abe, Vote: Kalofer

.

Still leaning scummy with Abe, but I'll leave it at FoS for now.

[DavidParker]

I'm going to be honest and say that I may have some experience, but the "SE" title by my name does not imply I'm more capable than anyone else in this game, nor do I have a set plan as to what I'm doing this game (no set plan ever works, so why have one). I take things as they come.

If you think I'm scummy because of the way I'm acting, you shouldn't use my status as a reason not to vote me; it's not stopping me from voting our IC!

[tvellalott]

UNVOTE

VOTE Kalofer

- You're very scummy my friend. I smell a rat!

FoS still on DavidParker

[tvellalott]

UNVOTE

Actually, 3 votes is enough.

FoS on Kalofer & DavidParker

[Excedrin]

Vote Count

FakeGod (2): NashiNashi, Kalofer
Zachrulez (1): DavidParker
Abe27342 (1): Zombeh-Pug
Kalofer (3): Nikanor, Zachrulez, FakeGod
NashiNashi (1): Abe27342

not voting: tvellalott
alive: 9 majority: 5

[Kalofer]

What seriously, where did I screw up?

[DavidParker]

Error. Please try again.

[DavidParker]

I know it's hard, the feeling of thinking you have played alright as scum Kalofer, but this just isn't your game, how about you make it easy and tell us who your scum partner is?

[Kalofer]

None of my games have been "my games" up to now and as to my scum partner, why that's you of course

[DavidParker]

But I have 0 votes on me. Clearly I'm town.