A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[Macavitar]

Light candle for Mikujin

Not nominating yourself under the premise of "oh I didn't read the day's OP" is malarky. He was trying to dodge the chance of being investigated.

[Macavitar]

Oh, and i'm not caught up in the thread yet. Had too much fun over the weekend, so I'll try to post a catch-up at some point today after work.

[Axelrod]

I'm out of town for the next two weeks. I've got some sort of internet here, but it's not the most reliable thing. Posting will be sporadic.

Cow is not a terrible choice for Copping. I also remember getting some bad vibes from Mikujin. And I also still wanted SSBF to go ahead and claim.

[diddin]

Light a Candle For: hascow

The reason you don't want to investigate someone scummy as cop is those are the people you're probably lynching anyways, and claiming cop with inno at that time is rediculously stupid unless it's LYLO or you're claimed. Cop scans should be used on hard to read players.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I appreciate the unnecessary sarcasm Magna, but douse almost seems like "no lynch" rather than unvote, but you are probably right.

I don’t think the sarcasm was unnecessary. You’ve made several statements today along the lines that your experience and thoughts were superior to other players’. I think the implication of douse candle (indicating snuffing a previously lit candle) was crystal clear. Your reaction struck me as not what I would expect from Town who wanted to be a leading voice in steering the Town.

We'll worry about it during massclaim (in which case a doc gives us a confirmed not-Greyjoy or jailkeeper/RB gives us a potential Greyjoy).

Why would a Jailkeeper / RB give us a potential Greyjoy? If the working theory (which I support, BTW) is that the Greyjoy N1 kill was blocked it makes ZERO sense for that person creating the block to be a Greyjoy. I’d say in either case (Doc or Blocker) we have a confirmed not-Greyjoy.

Also regarding your discussion that you aren’t a Lannister due to your danakillsu interactions – it’s HUGE amounts of WIFOM. Following your logic anyone who refused to wagon Raivann in favor of other candidates should be cleared of being Greyjoy because that’s just not the behaviour of someone who knew Raivann would flip scum. Neither scenario seems logically sound in my mind.

If you think for certain that there was a Lannister on the Kingsguard (and given that we had two Greyjoy’s I’m certainly not ruling out the possibility) you’ve basically set yourself up in a 1 v 1 with Cow. With Cow a likely scan today I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I kind of disagree with your perspective on vezo in the sense that having a confirmed town VI is actually a very bad thing for scum. They can't leave the person alive until LYLO and forcing their hand to kill a VI potentially saves a more useful person for later in the game. tl;dr cutting down on mislynches is a good thing.

I’m going to disagree here completely with your assessment that having a confirmed Town VI is bad for scum. His confirmation means he will not be mis-lynched but Vezo (as an example of a classic VI, no offense) hasn’t shown any indication that he will be making good decisions as the game progresses. If it comes down to a LYLO situation scum will most probably take a Confirmed VI over a player (confirmed or not) who has shown good instincts during the game, IMO.

I want him to replace out or I want him dead. I see no value in clearing him if he's staying in his slot.

In a follow-up to the above, QFT.

Light a candle for : hasdgfas

Establishing another confirmed Town from a slot I consider strong (to join Locke) in my opinion the best use of the Worship scan. I’d also be happy seeing Mina (for similar reasons to Cow), Unsight or Rifka (two of my current suspicions) investigated.

On my to-do list – review both Unsight and Rifka’s suspicions and suggestions for potential Lannister / Greyjoy links.

[Thor665]

We'll worry about it during massclaim (in which case a doc gives us a confirmed not-Greyjoy or jailkeeper/RB gives us a potential Greyjoy).

Why would a Jailkeeper / RB give us a potential Greyjoy? If the working theory (which I support, BTW) is that the Greyjoy N1 kill was blocked it makes ZERO sense for that person creating the block to be a Greyjoy. I’d say in either case (Doc or Blocker) we have a confirmed not-Greyjoy.

Think more along them declaring their targets and I think you'll be more in tune with what Mina was driving at.

Douse candle: Macavitar
Light a candle for : hasdgfas

I'm down with this.

[Mikujin]

Light candle for Mikujin

Not nominating yourself under the premise of "oh I didn't read the day's OP" is malarky. He was trying to dodge the chance of being investigated.

@Macavitar:

A treat for you, since your "logic" is entirely unfounded. (And you seem intent on misrepresenting a statement that I

misread

something)

List of People Who Didn't Step Forward Immediately

:

• Benmage
• diddin
• SSBF
• Rifka
• RichardGHP (acceptable, IMO)
• Myself
• Locke
• Macavitar

It's worth noting that most people mentioned in there

did

Step Forward, between 2-4 posts into the day. Just throwing that out there in case you want to jump to some more stupid conclusions.

Light candle: hasdgfas

[diddin]

I was the first person to step forward, don't know what you're talking about.

[Eddard Stark]

Votecount 3.6 The '

"Explain to me why it is more noble to kill ten thousand men in battle than a dozen at dinner."

' votecount.

Super Smash Bros. Fan (3) -

Diddin, Unsight, Macavitar

Vezokpiraka (2) -

Benmage, RichardGHP

Unsight (1)

MagnaOfIllusion

Hasdgfas (1)

Mina

Rifka Viveka (1)

Locke Lamora

CSL (1)

xvart

Not Voting (8)-

Thor665, Mikujin, Vezokpiraka, Rifka Viveka, Hasdgfas, Axelrod, Vezokpiraka, CSL

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Candle Count

Rifka Viveka (1) Rifka Viveka
Hasdgfas (7)

Unsight, Benmage, Vezokpiraka, diddin, MagnaOfIllusion, Thor655, Mikujin

Mikujin (1)

Macavitar

Deadline for today is Wednesday August 11th @ 6:30 EST.

[Benmage]

List of People Who Didn't Step Forward Immediately

:

• Benmage
• diddin
• SSBF
• Rifka
• RichardGHP (acceptable, IMO)
• Myself
• Locke
• Macavitar

It's worth noting that most people mentioned in there

did

Step Forward, between 2-4 posts into the day. Just throwing that out there in case you want to jump to some more stupid conclusions.

I dislike what this may suggest for it is out of context. Once it was said for all to step forward I know I atleast did not hesitate, which one may infer by reading this post. Just cause you showed up late to the party and followed the trend doesn't make us go "yayyyy mikujin."

I appreciate the unnecessary sarcasm Magna, but douse almost seems like "no lynch" rather than unvote, but you are probably right.

I don’t think the sarcasm was unnecessary. You’ve made several statements today along the lines that your experience and thoughts were superior to other players’. I think the implication of douse candle (indicating snuffing a previously lit candle) was crystal clear. Your reaction struck me as not what I would expect from Town who wanted to be a leading voice in steering the Town.

This seems like unnecessary undermining for I said, which I’ll just take as you not caring about or ignoring, that I had just woken up and was still hazy. I rushed my thoughts there and tried to stop what I thought was a bad thing happening. I often scan for highlights of things I missed. Bolds, Mod stuff, mentioning’s about me…Then I go back for a more thorough read. When I saw the lightings for the wrong people I got overly nervoused and acted, but came to my own senses a post later.

I will lead this town. It looks like the cow thing is going to plan. That’ll yield him lock, thor, rich, myself and Mina as town (Yeah My read on Mina has been a rollercoaster, but right now with the Kingsguard released info I believe her to be town). With a few other decent reads our pool is greatly narrowed.

Tomorrow, Thor will kill Vezo and hopefully locke will be doc’d/not rb’d and have something juicy for us.


As for the remainder of today I too will look into a few things for who will be our most advantageous lynch.

You actually don’t seem to be playing to your meta, which is ironic for its something you’ve called me out on. If it wasn’t for the fact that I like most of your reads I might be more worried. Although as I’ve said scum have the luxury in this game of doing real scumhunting to look town. So you haven’t/won’t go completely unnoticed. (That said I do think you’re town I just don’t see the effort of scum-hunting/cases making I’ve seen elsewhere)

[Benmage]

EBWOP: Miku put himself in his list. Still dislike the context.

[Locke Lamora]

Let's get this done, then we can get on with lynching someone.

Light a candle for: hasdgfas

[Macavitar]

lol, keep reinforcing that scum read Mikujin. I agree completely with benmage that you "list" is devoid of context. Also, the big difference between those people and you is that they all stepped forward without being called out. You, however, were doing your best to not step forward at all. I sense a lynch in your future scumbag. Cower now.

Douse
Light a candle for: hascow

Investigation-1

[Eddard Stark]

Votecount 3.7 The '

"Blood ran dark from the gash he made, and washed over the steel. And then the sword took fire."

votecount.

Super Smash Bros. Fan (3) -

Diddin, Unsight, Macavitar

Vezokpiraka (2) -

Benmage, RichardGHP

Unsight (1)

MagnaOfIllusion

Hasdgfas (1)

Mina

Rifka Viveka (1)

Locke Lamora

CSL (1)

xvart

Not Voting (6)-

Thor665, Mikujin, Vezokpiraka, Rifka Viveka, Hasdgfas, Axelrod, Vezokpiraka, CSL

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Candle Count

Rifka Viveka (1) Rifka Viveka

Hasdgfas (9)

Unsight, Benmage, Vezokpiraka, diddin, MagnaOfIllusion, Thor655, Mikujin, Locke Lamora, Macavitar

Deadline for today is Wednesday August 11th @ 6:30 EST. Countdown can be viewed here.

As those gathered lit their candles in prayers for Hasdgfas, the chanting of the Septons and Septas grew louder. They called on the Crone to share her wisdom. The candles flared for a single blinding moment and then, as one, they all went out. The high septon turned to the gathered and said "We will know with the setting of the sun whether this chosen one has noble intentions, or whether he belongs to the Stranger.

[Thor665]

Vote: Super Smash Bros. Fan

Me no likey play by tiny blue man.

[diddin]

go go Gadget SSBF lynch

[Mikujin]

lol, keep reinforcing that scum read Mikujin. I agree completely with benmage that you "list" is devoid of context. Also, the big difference between those people and you is that they all stepped forward without being called out. You, however, were doing your best to not step forward at all. I sense a lynch in your future scumbag. Cower now.

Douse
Light a candle for: hascow

Investigation-1

The reason it lacks content is because it was

supposed

to. It was a big, pretentious list, which held as much weight as your "What do you have to hide?" argument. If I don't step forward after your call out, I'm scum. If I do step forward after your call out, I'm scum. Do you not see how flawed that is?

I hadn't posted in two days when I did the step forward, and you're attempting to use that timing to paint an ugly picture.

[hasdgfas]

3) as of right now, me. I want your fears assuaged, and it seems like a bunch of other people want to be sure I'm town to pay more attention to my reads. Other than me, xvart. I don't have a clue what I think of him.

I'm the only person in the entire game that you have a neutral read on?

well, kinda irrelevant now, but I never said you were the only one I had a neutral read on. You were just the one that stuck out the most to me.

Cow, what town benefit do you think would have been gained for the KG to know everyone's role name or role?

It locks them into a claim, whether rolename or role. Claiming something that, if you change it later, there are 6 others to call you out on is an incredibly powerful tool.

I don't think that tool would have been especially effective considering the claims we have gotten so far from people. And considering name claiming (and the reference to the GoT mini and the name claiming debacle there) was already thrown out the window before any of you were recruited is troubling to me. I don't see how if everyone name claiming is not being a good idea then how good idea for a smaller group of people to name claim.

xvart.

It's a select group, that one person thinks is made up of town. If LMP hadn't said that he picked people he thought were town(minus raivann), I wouldn't have said a thing about nameclaiming. But it seemed like a decent reason to at least see what people thought of the idea.

I'd like you to explain further.

The people who are scummy are the ones more likely to be lynched. With 2 confirmed scumteams, they also have a higher-than-normal chance to be killed at night, with people trying to get crosskills.
Someone who is scummy is someone you already have a read on. Someone who you don't have a read on who you can confirm as either town or scum is far more helpful than either confirming that you're going to lynch someone you already want to lynch, or confirming that you're

not

going to lynch someone who has been playing in an anti-town way. Will them being confirmed innocent cause them to change their play? Most likely not, so why spend an investigation on them if it's not going to really help the town?

so basically this:

The reason you don't want to investigate someone scummy as cop is those are the people you're probably lynching anyways, and claiming cop with inno at that time is rediculously stupid unless it's LYLO or you're claimed. Cop scans should be used on hard to read players.

vote: SSBF

now that I'm being investigated, die please. I still need to take a look at Unsight. Apologies that it hasn't happened yet, the last couple days have been kinda crazy. Next day or 2. Hopefully tomorrow.

[Mina]

Wow, um, that went through quickly.

Unvote

Rifka, why did you light a candle for yourself?

I thought it would take me an essay to convince people to see the light on Cow. Basically, aside from the overdefensiveness and night-kill evidence, I found his observations have been superficial, most of his posts consist of filler like "something seems off here," and soft questions, and his "if SSBF weren't sooooo unbelievably scummy for saying 'Yay, the godfather's dead,' I'd vote for you" routine every time someone said something suspicious rang as false. I also hated his refusal to answer my question about Lannisters on the Kingsguard because "it might be a trap" (Wasn't it obvious where I was heading with it? If he's town, he should be wondering about me by process of elimination?).

But fuck. I don't think Cow would still be posting after he'd been investigated if he were scum.

This game is starting to depress me.

I'll vote SSBF (he seems to have given up on scumhunting as his lynch has drawn near), but first, I'd like to do the paraphrase of the N2 Kingsguard QT tomorrow. It would be a shame if the information died with me and Cow.

I will lead this town. It looks like the cow thing is going to plan. That’ll yield him lock, thor, rich, myself and Mina as town (Yeah My read on Mina has been a rollercoaster, but right now with the Kingsguard released info I believe her to be town). With a few other decent reads our pool is greatly narrowed.

Wait...so if you think Cow will end up town, then why did you push his scan in the first place?

Why would a Jailkeeper / RB give us a potential Greyjoy? If the working theory (which I support, BTW) is that the Greyjoy N1 kill was blocked it makes ZERO sense for that person creating the block to be a Greyjoy. I’d say in either case (Doc or Blocker) we have a confirmed not-Greyjoy.

Thor explained it, but if someone claims to have roleblocked or jailkept an unlikely NK target on N1, then that makes his claimed N1 target look bad.

Also regarding your discussion that you aren’t a Lannister due to your danakillsu interactions – it’s HUGE amounts of WIFOM. Following your logic anyone who refused to wagon Raivann in favor of other candidates should be cleared of being Greyjoy because that’s just not the behaviour of someone who knew Raivann would flip scum. Neither scenario seems logically sound in my mind.

I admitted that by bad luck, I look like a dana buddy from an outside POV. (On a skim-read D1, even I winced at how often I unwittingly defended I doubt it and danakillsu.) There isn't really much I can do about it now other than explain why I wasn't sold on the dana lynch, admit that I get in trouble

a lot

for white-knighting wagons, and say that the way I went about my defence of dana is not how I would have done it had we been scumbuddies.

Anyway, I believe that scumbuddies tend to have either weak-to-no interactions with their teammates or keep them in what I call "the buddy zone" (put each other on their higher suspect tiers, but not put them to a lynch). Look at how I doubt it interacted with danakillsu, for example. It's why I'm hesitant to see xvart or Macavitar as Greyjoys even though they fit well on paper; MacavityLocke has this terrible quote early in the game in response to the Deer wagon that sounds like textbook buddy behaviour, but he's a bit too open with his defence of Raivann, and Percy and Raivann openly declare xvart town too often. I think

Benmage

's late vote for Raivann, when Raivann was nudging out CMAR by a couple of votes, is more what I'd expect of a buddy cutting ties by voting for someone who was almost certain to be lynched when the alternative was someone he'd suspected. (Of course, I think Ben's interaction with Percy is a bit too strong--not negative,

strong

--for them to be teamed up. It's hard to tell with a player like Percy.)

If you think for certain that there was a Lannister on the Kingsguard (and given that we had two Greyjoy’s I’m certainly not ruling out the possibility) you’ve basically set yourself up in a 1 v 1 with Cow. With Cow a likely scan today I'm not sure how I feel about that.

You know...now that Cow's last post is giving me the sinking feeling he'll scan town, maybe I should clarify that it's within the realm of possibility that there's no Lannister on the Kingsguard, and the nightkills were coincidence. But I'm not sure what you mean by that last part. That you see a scum motivation for pushing for a Cow scan or putting myself in a 1 v 1 with him?

[Thor665]

Rifka, why did you light a candle for yourself?

This question is full of win with sprinkles. I think only myself and maybe one other player (Benmage?) even had Rifka on our 5-6 names we would be okay with investigating lists. Also, she's certainly felt like she was drifting in the middle of the pack overall as far as people's town/scum take on her. I'm not sure what prompted her trying to lead a charge for her own investigation.

[hasdgfas]

I also hated his refusal to answer my question about Lannisters on the Kingsguard because "it might be a trap" (Wasn't it obvious where I was heading with it? If he's town, he should be wondering about me by process of elimination?).

Right, but I've seen this before. Even though I should be wondering about you by process of elimination, if I say so, it's OMGUS. If I don't, I'm scum trying to appease my attacker. I really hate questions like that, because both answers get me more suspicion.
But the thing is, the situation that you're creating here, of "Lannister in the Kingsguard seems like the obvious conclusion", doesn't seem like one that scum would make, which is why I didn't immediately go "Yes, I'm suspicious of you". I wanted your response to that, as it would have probably helped my read somewhat.

[vezokpiraka]

Vote SSBF

Let's get on with it.

[Macavitar]

The reason it lacks content is because it was supposed to. It was a big, pretentious list, which held as much weight as your "What do you have to hide?" argument. If I don't step forward after your call out, I'm scum. If I do step forward after your call out, I'm scum. Do you not see how flawed that is?

I hadn't posted in two days when I did the step forward, and you're attempting to use that timing to paint an ugly picture.

Do you think you would have stepped forward had I not said anything? When you posted then, had you noticed everyone else in the game had a bolded Step Forward in their posts?

I get in trouble a lot for white-knighting wagons

Can I have some examples? Thanks.

[Rifka Viveka]

Rifka, why did you light a candle for yourself?

For the WIFOM value?

Actually, i was curious to see if magnaofillusion would actually follow up on that suspicion of me, but didnt make the slightest effort to do so. Reading his ISO, he seems to have an entirely reactionary playing, sharply making points on posts throughout the game, but never seeming to actually initiate attacks(my perception anyway) difficult player for me getting a read on... Plus, being confirmed=sit back and have a lemonade in the shade as far as defending goes

Im pretty sure i know what the follow up responses to this^ will be(im cynical like that), but ill let you state it in your own words

[Locke Lamora]

Lighting a candle for yourself was your attempt to find out if Magna's suspicion of you was genuine? What were you expecting the pro-town reaction to be?

Can we like, take Vezo's vote away or something?