Mini 983: It Got Worse (GAME OVER)

[Ythan]

At every idea you will ignore anything in the thread for the opportunity to act like a victim. Pathetic.

[SpyreX]

OR OR YOU COULD JUST SHOOT BOTH OF THEM FOR JUSTICE SOMEHOW.

(Seriously this is ridiculous and needs to stop)

And its not a function of llama. Its a function of "he who has the daykill"

[Ythan]

Noted, Spyre.

[LlamaFluff]

Spy is not reading. That is something I have never seen him doing.

Reading over RC, SK and Spy. I will be voting one of those three today.

[SpyreX]

I'm not reading in depth for sure and I've been fairly clear about that?

What is the super secret thing I've missed though?

[LlamaFluff]

I'm not reading in depth for sure and I've been fairly clear about that?

What is the super secret thing I've missed though?

Fairly essential thing regarding govenor powers.

Also I lied. I do not get a daykill. Hoped to get a reaction from SK pointing either way, or scum delcaring a win if he was town.

I get the power to bring someones point total to zero, and the ability to reset the votecount (it does have to be 5+ days to deadline though).

I do not get a daykill, or any super awesome powers really.

[SpyreX]

Sigh.

Welp, ropes ahoy then.

[Ythan]

Ropes for SK, to be more specific.

[SaintKerrigan]

Are you capable of voting at all, Ythan? (Not an insult. This is a serious question.)

Llama, if you're starting to buy into the dual scumteam theory, who's #4?

It'd be really nice if Amished showed up and gave a nice excuse for his absence so I can believe he's not active lurking.

Mod: Is it too early to prod Amished? (Read: I know that it's technically too early but he's only posted twice this last week.)

[Amished]

Yes, it is too early to prod Amished.

When I don't get back into my house til after 10 and I still have to shower and get up at 6; I don't have much time for Mafia. Sorry.

What do I need to know, other than SK should be the lynch today? Anything important? Otherwise I'll listen to Ythan and Llama if they want me to claim more. Like I mentioned previously, RC's *role* still seems like it's believeable; though my gift could be an attempt to throw me off; especially since multiple gifts seemed to have dropped last night.

Finding where I left off *trudges*

[Amished]

Got to the N2 speculation by Llama: What if Nik's power that he chose was a killing power? It'd be a vig at that point which I redirected to MO. SK's kill still could've come through on N2 then and somebody else killed UK at that point as well. With an SK; it'd be a 2.1 killing role game (.1 comes from a chance for Nik to choose a Beetlejuice killing role)

The more I see from RC the better I feel about him; Spyre is the opposite.

Since I think it'll help clear things up, I redirected RC (due to me believing him about his *role*) to SPS (since I did view him as scummy). Therefore I know that RC did not submit a kill last night since SPS is alive and wasn't jailed; and if I wasn't randomly failed (which shouldn't happen as random actions don't come in front of redirection in NAR. Though it could be argued that it's a roleblock..) then SPS didn't do the kill since he was a random target for failing.

So unless RC's role is a safe-claim and my gift is a red-herring to "clear" him (since it can't really be proven) they both can't be scum since I don't forsee an 8-3-1 game in all likely-hood.

[Ythan]

I'm capable of voting, I just want to see how much longer I have to go without it before you drop your bullshit crutch and try to build a real case.

[LlamaFluff]

Scum Read Strength	Does Not Work With	Works Ok with, leaning No	Works OK with, leaning Yes	Works Well With
RedCoyote	Amished	SaintKerrigan, Ythan	No One	ooba, SpyreX
SaintKerrigan	Ythan, ooba	RedCoyote, SpyreX	Amished	No One
SpyreX	No One	ooba, SaintKerrigan	Ythan, Amished	RedCoyote
ooba	SaintKerrigan	SpyreX	Amished, Ythan	RedCoyote
Ythan	SaintKerrigan	RedCoyote, Amished	SpyreX, ooba	No One
Amished	RedCoyote	Ythan	SaintKerrigan, ooba, SpyreX	No One

Crap that took a long time to code.

Some things I took away from this is that apart from the issue of both being roleblockers, RC and Spy both looks scummy and even able to work together. A pair of roleblocker varients does not seem like something that would be on one team.

SK looks a whole lot less appealing as a lynch as well, since the only one who I see sorta working with him is my best town read (albiet Ythan and Amish are close together). If SK is scum he has been getting bussed along the way.

If this is one three man team, I think it is: RedCoyote, SpyreX/SK and ooba.

If it is two teams: Team A - RedCoyote and ooba. Team B - SpyreX and Ythan/Amish

Currently given all this stuff, I lean to a RC lynch. Will back it up with facts later on.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Amished: I can sympathize with your situation regarding time constraints.

With that said, let's see if I've got this right: You chose to redirect RC last night because you believed his *role* (why are you starring it if you believe it, btw), and you redirected it to SPS because you believed he was scummy. So...it rather seems like a waste of an action to me. First of all, RC does not have a claimed active ability, so you redirecting him is rather pointless in that regard. If you think he's lying, I'd think you'd considerably doubt his claim. Additionally, I went back and looked yesterday, and I haven't really seen anything from you that strongly indicates that you believe RC's role. Help me out here, Amished. This is starting to look like a fake claim.

[RedCoyote]

If SK was the member of the scum making the kill N1, MO could not have died. Someone killed MO. It was not SK. It was not SPS.

MOs kill was not delayed, so it was apparently blocked by either RC or Spy saved SPS.

Next night two die. There are no delayed kills as proven above, meaning there are two killing groups.

If SK was delayed N1 someone else killed MO. I am going to discount him committing suicide.

Okay, I get what you're saying. Still sticking with my conclusion at the moment though.

---

HOWEVER, going "ohh look at me and all my contributions" is garbage. Absolute garbage. Show it. Show this myriad of contributions. Be sure to clarify how I'm scum with SK but on this page you are hand-wringing about SK actually being scum but still gung ho on me.

Well, for one, I didn't just say, "okay, Sociopath lynch sounds good, whatever". Second, I didn't just say, "SPS is lurking, let me just leave a vote here until the day is over". Third, I didn't just say, "okay, Nikanor lynch sounds good, whatever". That's you, okay, so we've established that.

But me? I've called SK out since D1. Compared to you, I can't say who your big suspects are. There's me, of course, and I guess SPS still? You throw SK in there, but I don't think you've voted SK yet today or yesterday. Like I said above, your vote was kind of a useless during yesterday and throughout this whole game. I was willing to fight the Nikanor wagon on D2, although the deadline pulled the rug out from under me a little bit. I didn't resign into doing whatever the majority wanted, which I think has been the story of your game so far. That alone makes me more of a contribution to the game than you have been, which is all I've said. I don't think I'm gloating, I'm just saying I think that if Llama objectively matched us up, I'm going to come out on top this game.

---

Can, and will. I've already explained dozens of times why I have this confidence, so I'll not bother to recap it here.

I think that's a brash, ham-fisted way to play the game. It effectively amounts to, "I'd rather lose than think of myself as wrong". There's a fine line between aggression and concession, and while I appreciate someone with the courageousness to hold true to their convictions, humility simply has to play a role in the complete mafia player. I don't mean to come off as lecturing, because I have, and will undoubtedly do so again, fallen victim to "knowing" I'm right. Ythan's lack of civility doesn't help things.

Why are you assuming that I'm going to keep my vote on Ythan for the entirety of Day 3, bar none? It's not like I've said anything to that effect.

I concede this point. I reread over the thread and I realized I was confusing lynch votes for "elect" votes.

This was the only reason why I wasn't voting, btw.

Vote: SpyreX

Explain how it's a "pattern of convenience". My Spyrex vote at the end of D2 was clearly based on SPS's damning data, and the preceding Nikanor vote was from before I realized that plurality would lynch him. Also, Day 2 I didn't start with the knowledge that Ythan was 100% scum. Day 3 I did.

It's convenient that you don't have to choose between me and Spyrex, although, granted, you've attempt to speak to this issue. Still, the words ring somewhat hollow when you have your vote uselessly cast aside. As Llama mentioned, given how similar me, you, and Spyrex are in terms of powers, it's hard to believe that we're all town.

So...it rather seems like a waste of an action to me. First of all, RC does not have a claimed active ability, so you redirecting him is rather pointless in that regard.

Although I don't have an active ability I don't necessarily think a redirector couldn't still take advantage of it (that's like a triple negative XD). What I mean is, I think Amish could still direct my power, regardless of whether I can or not. I mean, I'm just assuming this is the case, but I don't see why he wouldn't be able to.

[RedCoyote]

Crap, I hit submit before I proofread it.

[RedCoyote]

But it'll still work I guess (last post).

[SaintKerrigan]

I think that's a brash, ham-fisted way to play the game. It effectively amounts to, "I'd rather lose than think of myself as wrong".

My confidence in my vote has nothing to do with Ythan's behavior towards me, or a hypothetical "I'd rather lose than think I'm wrong" mentality. It has to do with this: I have a 100% success rate when I've used this tell. So far, Ythan has said absolutely nothing that makes me think I'm wrong. Unless he, or anyone else, does so, I'm going to keep believing that Ythan is scum.

It's convenient that you don't have to choose between me and Spyrex, although, granted, you've attempt to speak to this issue. Still, the words ring somewhat hollow when you have your vote uselessly cast aside. As Llama mentioned, given how similar me, you, and Spyrex are in terms of powers, it's hard to believe that we're all town.

What do you mean that I haven't chosen between you and Spyrex? First, why couldn't I choose both of you? Second, I believe I've been very clear that Spyrex is a stronger scum candidate than you today. Third, I'm an Amnesiac. How is this role similar at all to yours or Spyrex's?

Although I don't have an active ability I don't necessarily think a redirector couldn't still take advantage of it (that's like a triple negative XD). What I mean is, I think Amish could still direct my power, regardless of whether I can or not. I mean, I'm just assuming this is the case, but I don't see why he wouldn't be able to.

Might not be a bad idea to ask if your randomosity can be redirected. Given it's nature, it doesn't seem like it to me, but hey, I dunno. Amished's action claim is giving me the same fuzzy feelings of "scum fakeclaim" that I got from Spyrex's claim that he jailed SPS.

Unvote: Ythan. Vote: Spyrex.

As much as Ythan needs to die, it's not looking like it'll happen today, so it's time for me to settle for the next best thing.

[sykedoc]

Will put up a VC tomorrow night. See you then.

[RedCoyote]

What do you mean that I haven't chosen between you and Spyrex? First, why couldn't I choose both of you? Second, I believe I've been very clear that Spyrex is a stronger scum candidate than you today. Third, I'm an Amnesiac.

First, you can only vote one person.
Second, I granted you that.
Third, well, it's more like a daisy chain thing, with me in the middle. You can control yours but don't know what happens, I can't control mine but I know what happens, and Spyrex can control his and knows what happens. You haven't used both of your powers yet though, right?

[SaintKerrigan]

First, you can only vote one person.

So in the absence of a vote, I use my voice. My voice has been clear in who I've chosen.

Third, well, it's more like a daisy chain thing, with me in the middle. You can control yours but don't know what happens, I can't control mine but I know what happens, and Spyrex can control his and knows what happens. You haven't used both of your powers yet though, right?

Yeah...I don't get it.

I've used both my powers already: #2 on Spyrex N1, #1 on Ythan N2. Although I'm suspecting that I got redirected on N2. Thus, at least one of my abilities may be a kill.

[Ythan]

SK, it's not happening today because you never attempted to build a real case. Spyre, eh. Maybe. Let's take one more look.

[Amished]

@SK: I specify *role* so that people can discern for themselves objectively what I know and what I suppose. I believe I stated that I believe his role (barring red-herring mod lying) due to the pinata gift that I received last night. Because of the gift; that made me choose RC. I figured that if he's town; then I'm stopping a random target from failing and getting rid of randomness is always beneficial. It would also prevent SPS (who doesn't have an "active" ability; and one that I stated I thought was really easy to just fake) as scum from killing since I assume that scum-nk is an ability that can be delegated to any of the scum.

Then, if it was a red-herring and RC is scum; since there's no claimed tracker/watcher anymore he'd be a good choice for scum to send out on the kill and allow the rest of the scum to properly "use" the claimed abilities that any/all have and not get caught in lying loopholes.

I actually really buy a Spyre/SK scumteam. Spyre "jailing" SK last night in an attempt to clear him from the kill last night. Spyre being 3rd choice scum for SK; and now that there's a wagon building switching over even though he's called my claim "smelling of a scum fake claim".

[SpyreX]

But me? I've called SK out since D1. Compared to you, I can't say who your big suspects are.

There's me, of course, and I guess SPS still? You throw SK in there, but I don't think you've voted SK yet today or yesterday. Like I said above, your vote was kind of a useless during yesterday and throughout this whole game. I was willing to fight the Nikanor wagon on D2, although the deadline pulled the rug out from under me a little bit. I didn't resign into doing whatever the majority wanted, which I think has been the story of your game so far. That alone makes me more of a contribution to the game than you have been, which is all I've said. I don't think I'm gloating, I'm just saying I think that if Llama objectively matched us up, I'm going to come out on top this game.

I have no words:

All this being said, I didn't realize the deadline was tomorrow. If Nikanor is the choice, then I will be on tomorrow to vote him. Spyrex really is the way we should go though, or possibly SK.

Mod, you left my vote off the vote count.

Actually, let me go ahead and unvote. I'll vote: SaintKerrigan because this "weakened" thing might mean it takes less people to lynch him. If the deadline is ~30 hours away then we need all the help we can get.

This is the vote for SK. This is the "calling out".

Every other time you've mentioned SK in relation to who you vote for its been "or possibly SK".

And the 180 on "Ohh I'm a big contributor" now versus "I'm a useless player this game"

which you said before

is awesome.

And no one is saying a peep about it. Woooo.

Even SK you're super best #1 callout scumbroseph is voting right along with you for "lol bus" right?

I may be playing a poor game this one but my lord.

[SaintKerrigan]

Stuffs

So...if you thought SPS might do a scumkill, why not redirect him to himself? If RC is lying about the randomizer and is scum with a kill, why not redirect him to himself? If he's scum with an active/directable randomizer and he uses it instead of a kill, why not redirect him to himself? If RC can use both a kill and a randomizer simultaneously, why won't the mod let me use both of my abilities simultaneously? (Last question was rhetorical.)

Although, I just realized that I've been subconsciously clearing SPS/ooba because I thought Spyrex/ooba scum were mutually exclusive. Now that there's a possibility (in my mind) of two scumteams, I'll need to reevaluate my position. Geez, can't I trust

anyone

in this town?

I actually really buy a Spyre/SK scumteam. Spyre "jailing" SK last night in an attempt to clear him from the kill last night. Spyre being 3rd choice scum for SK; and now that there's a wagon building switching over even though he's called my claim "smelling of a scum fake claim".

Excuse me? Spyrex has been my #2 scumpick since the end of Day 2, and they're backed up by multiple explicit quotes. Also, in case you don't recall, I said this, early this morning:

Amished's action claim is giving me the same fuzzy feelings of "scum fakeclaim" that I got from Spyrex's claim that he jailed SPS.

This isn't the first time I've said I don't believe Spyrex's SPS claim. Plus, you rank lower on my scumlist than Spyrex (and I've posted this somewhere today). That means I think Spyrex is more likely to be scum than you. So pardon me if I compromise and move my vote from my #1 suspect to my #2 suspect, who also has another vote on him and is more likely to be lynched today. You really like painting many of the things I do as scummy, don't you?

Spyrex gets an A for effort for that latest post. Not moving my vote on him, though.