Open 226: Big Love - Game over! Town wins!

[Zajnet]

And

FoS: SV

too, I really don't like his way of going with the flow.

Oddly enough, I could say the same about you.

[Enigma]

I don't understand why you guys think millar is suss...

I felt pretty convinced that he is actually a lover. The concern here is there is a doctor and with 16 players to choose from, the most logical one would be to protect a 'confirmed' lover hence save a possible 2 town deaths.

@Muthaa: He said his partner was on the prod list (what yabba quoted), so there are only 3 possible suspects for his lover remaining, me, switz, and you.
Now ideally we want to avoid having any more lover claims unless it is absolutely necessary so hopefully neither of us 3 would want to distance ourselves from being lovers to isolate the other 2. More confirmed lovers means it's much more likely the town:mafia ratio will suffer in the upcoming days and doctor pure luck is harder to come by.
I don't understand why you being on the short list are distancing yourself away from millar, because it's a pretty anti town thing to do. Ideally all three of us (unless one of us were scum) would try to prevent millar's lover from being isolated.

Care to explain why you are still attacking millar?

[Switz]

Pitt also was blatantly pressuring Xite, who was in that shortlist which was never really trichotomized until Switz asked the ill-fated question. But I need to double-check who else is scummy.

Umm, I don't see how that question was ill-fated at all, seeing as how one of the three people on the shortlist was scum. And I wasn't the only person who narrowed it down to Xite, Millar, or Chi as our D1 lynch, and I'm pretty sure I wasn't the first to do it either. I'm just the only one who got called a trichotomizer.

FoS: yabba

And I agree, Enigma, as the only three options remaining to be townMillar's Lover, we're all in danger. I'm not really sure what you're suggesting we do though, the last bit of your post is a little confusing. Are you saying we should semi-align, or just not start accusing each other of being Millar's Lover?

[Muthaa]

@ Zajnet: You mean the FoS?
@Enigma: Forgot there was a doc. I was pointing something out, which I thought would be helping.

[Enigma]

I'm saying we don't go out there saying "I'm not millar's lover" unless absolutely necessary.

[don_johnson]

wonderful. four confirmed townies who shouldn't claim just yet. i'm going to sift through the chichi wagon detractors and find another scum. let you know what i come up with. oh and... you're welcome.

[Mr.Sandman]

Internet issues have resolved themselves.

I don't think millar would be a good lynch today. If the other pairs of lover's die, it will expose him but until then, I don't see that there's much point in them jeapordising their position or risking another lover coming out to support millar if he is indeed a lover.

vote Shattered Viewpoint

For very little contribution to the game in the posts he has made, his vote on Xite which put Xite to L-1 which came out of nowhere, having barely mentioned his existence before that point, and being especially significant given that chiuahaha said he'd hammer if it was L-1. And lastly, hammers chiuahauaha out of nowhere as well, which looks like an attempt to look townier by getting on a town lynch.

[don_johnson]

vote: mr. sandman

iso him. its... interesting.

[Zajnet]

vote: mr. sandman

iso him. its... interesting.

I fail to see what's very scummy about him. I'd put him somewhere neutral in my reads.

Actually, I just ISOd don, and what I see is a textbook bus of chihuahua.

VOTE: don_johnson

[don_johnson]

define "textbook".

its not in scums interest to bus the treacherous lover. if scum was on the wagon at all, it was most likely late. lynching the tl confirms four townies. try again.

if you read sandman, you will note that he spends alot of time ignoring the chihuahua situation. he even goes out of his way to mention that he is not "defending" chichi, when he clearly is. he stays focused on the xite/millar combo all day. suddenly, millar is not so attractive to him. why is that?

so someone who seems to actively avoid a day 1 scum wagon is "null" to you? i don't get it.

[don_johnson]

Internet issues have resolved themselves.

I don't think millar would be a good lynch today. If the other pairs of lover's die, it will expose him but until then, I don't see that there's much point in them jeapordising their position or risking another lover coming out to support millar if he is indeed a lover.

you see, millars lover can confirm him. lovers aren't getting lynched. they are all as good as masons. actually, as i read this again, that seems to be precisely what you are saying. hm. that doesn't change your actions yesterday. and also, you are abandoning xite as well. please explain why you are no longer suspicious of xite(or if you are suspicious, why does sv take precedence.)

[don_johnson]

dp might be a good pick for a bus. can't wait to here his reasoning for his dj vote. i do remember him playing both sides of the fence a bit yesterday, and his last couple posts are a bit odd.

[Zajnet]

@don:

They are not masons, because if they claim, scum can NK them for a 2-fer. 4 confirmed townies is all fine and dandy, because from the scum's point of view, it gives them the best NKs.

Bussing the treacherous lover, and then trying to get the remaining 4 lovers to claim, is a great scum play.

Too bad I caught you in it.

Confirm Vote

[Wacka Alpaca]

Don_johnson does seem to be flailing right now, what with the rapid posts, the vote swaps.
He seemed scummy to me day one aswell, but this play has definately put him on top of my scumdar.

I would like to wait until everyone realises it is day 2 before casting blind impulse votes (Never been a fan of them).
quick Q, to lynch it takes 8 now right?

[Sanxion]

From what I know about Don, this behavior might just be him.

And I know very little, though.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Don_johnson does seem to be flailing right now, what with the rapid posts, the vote swaps.
He seemed scummy to me day one aswell, but this play has definately put him on top of my scumdar.

I would like to wait until everyone realises it is day 2 before casting blind impulse votes (Never been a fan of them).
quick Q, to lynch it takes 8 now right?

It's 9 to lynch.

[don_johnson]

Bussing the treacherous lover, and then trying to get the remaining 4 lovers to claim, is a great scum play.

whose "trying to get the remaining 4 lovers to claim"?

From what I know about Don, this behavior might just be him.

if by "behavior" you mean "excellent scumhunting" then you are correct.

i pointed out what was wrong with chichi's posts right off the bat. there was only one other player with me at that time. way too many oppurtunities to "not" lynch chichi. a bus, my vote was certainly not, by any stretch of the imagination. now zaj seems to have launched an unsubstantiated and blatantly false accusation. at no point in time have i asked or suggested that the remaining lovers claim.

i get why sandman abandoned his suspicion of millar, but votes not moving until sandman explains why he is abandoning his suspicions of xite.

next i iso chichi.

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

@SV-199: There you go.

i voted robogroptgrrr because he's not leaving don_j alone.

It was an innocent question and doesnt deserve to be tunneled the crap out of like robo is doing. AGAIN.

thats why i voteded

Who is the "There you go." directed at? Me or robo?

And that explanation of mine is... unsatisfactory. I should not post in a game while drinking (I usually don't).

Okay, here's the deal: Robo is voting chihuahua for... policy voting. That's ...

@Robo: Can you explain your case (or, I don't know,

make one)

on chihuahua?

Also, Robo, can you explain why your devotion to the don_j lover fiasco is not worthy of a vote?

You, sir, are looking quite the scum to me at this moment.

My vote stays (now with coherent explanation!).

This vote says a lot to me, now that chihuahua is confirmed scum. It seems like here, Shattered is trying to redirect attention away from chihuahua.

It is only at the end of the day that Shattered votes for Chihuahua, saying that he believes that Fidelis is scum. so, shattered, why did you think that Fidelis was scum?

vote: shattered viewpoint

[Mr.Sandman]

Don, I think Xite's plan is too ridiculous to be devised by scum. I don't see how scum would devise such a plan and hope to live, particularly given that the non-lover scum players are the ones that would be more important to protect as there is less chance of them dieing, and if scum did devise such a plan, that the benefits would outweigh the disadvantages of it. Yes, in an extreme circumstance, it would be worth a punt from a scum player, to try and sway something and get the gain from it, but Xite seemed to genuinely believe that that was a good play for the town.

Don_johnson does seem to be flailing right now, what with the rapid posts, the vote swaps.
He seemed scummy to me day one aswell, but this play has definately put him on top of my scumdar.

I would like to wait until everyone realises it is day 2 before casting blind impulse votes (Never been a fan of them).
quick Q, to lynch it takes 8 now right?

FoS: Wacka

Why so reluctant to vote? It takes 9 to lynch but we're hardly going to get a lynch any time soon, therefore there's no reason to be reluctant to vote. I don't see that impulse is necessarily a bad thing anyway. Who are you suspicious of from day 1?

[Enigma]

Right now I'm more towards those who tried to attract attention back to the Xite/Millar fiasco rather than focus on the late chihuahua issue.

Hence my best suspects right now:
Switz #528
Whacka #541 #557 #579

FOS: Whacka

Also prod on Zerofang would be nice.

[Enigma]

^Tallied before the post by Sandman

[Shattered Viewpoint]

@SV-199: There you go.

i voted robogroptgrrr because he's not leaving don_j alone.

It was an innocent question and doesnt deserve to be tunneled the crap out of like robo is doing. AGAIN.

thats why i voteded

Who is the "There you go." directed at? Me or robo?

And that explanation of mine is... unsatisfactory. I should not post in a game while drinking (I usually don't).

Okay, here's the deal: Robo is voting chihuahua for... policy voting. That's ...

@Robo: Can you explain your case (or, I don't know,

make one)

on chihuahua?

Also, Robo, can you explain why your devotion to the don_j lover fiasco is not worthy of a vote?

You, sir, are looking quite the scum to me at this moment.

My vote stays (now with coherent explanation!).

This vote says a lot to me, now that chihuahua is confirmed scum. It seems like here, Shattered is trying to redirect attention away from chihuahua.

It is only at the end of the day that Shattered votes for Chihuahua, saying that he believes that Fidelis is scum. so, shattered, why did you think that Fidelis was scum?

vote: shattered viewpoint

First off, please explain how that post

in any way

makes you think I was trying to redirect attention away from chihuahua.

As for why I thought Fidelis was scum, well, for starters, Fidelis says here that Xite & millar are better lynches than chihuahua. So, far from ME trying to take the spotlight off of chihuahua, that's precisely what Fidelis was doing. Same thing here, where he votes me due to HIS lack of reading comprehension (while still trying to protect chihuahua).

As the tide turned, he finally votes chihuahua when, apparently, he sees that it can't be avoided.

I'm not ALWAYS right when I scumhunt (and my apologies to those of you who are, in fact, perfect). This time, apparently, I was half-wrong. I just had the wrong lover.

That's all history now, though.

I've got to run; more content and thoughts on current events either late tonight or sometime tomorrow.

[Switz]

wonderful. four confirmed townies who shouldn't claim just yet. i'm going to sift through the chichi wagon detractors and find another scum. let you know what i come up with. oh and... you're welcome.

Just an fyi...I don't trust you to do our scumhunting for us. I didn't like your play yesterDay, and I don't like it toDay either. I don't want to vote you w/o ISOing or getting a decent response from Shattered.

Speaking of which...

As for why I thought Fidelis was scum, well, for starters, Fidelis says here that Xite & millar are better lynches than chihuahua. So, far from ME trying to take the spotlight off of chihuahua, that's precisely what Fidelis was doing. Same thing here, where he votes me due to HIS lack of reading comprehension (while still trying to protect chihuahua).

As the tide turned, he finally votes chihuahua when, apparently, he sees that it can't be avoided.

I'm not ALWAYS right when I scumhunt (and my apologies to those of you who are, in fact, perfect). This time, apparently, I was half-wrong. I just had the wrong lover.

That's all history now, though.

I've got to run; more content and thoughts on current events either late tonight or sometime tomorrow.

Really? This is really what you're going to go with? Let's think about this a minute.

So here's why imo a Xite lynch > Millar lynch > chichi lynch. For one thing, we know that at least one of Xite and Millar is lying, so lynching either one of these is preferable to chichi, who we can take care of later given they remain scummy. Also, a Millar lynch isn't guaranteed to lynch a liar, since if Millar is telling the truth, then we just randomly lynched a lover pair.

But, if we lynch Xite and Xite is lying, we killed a liar, and if Xite is telling the truth, then Millar dies and we still kill a liar.

I spaced that out for the benefit of lazy readers that won't see my previous post.

This is the first post you link to. First of all, this argument makes sense even if Fidelis is not connected to Chi in any way. It even convinces Don, the person who singlehandedly caught Chi (according to him). Secondly, Fidelis made this post later in the day before you hammered Chi and killed him.

Bah, you know what, I looked back through the thread to find examples, and he does seem really scummy. VOTE: chihuahua0. I'm going out on a limb here saying this, but

the only reason I was kind of sticking up for chihuahua before was because he's my lover and I didn't feel like dying

. But I really think he's the most likely candidate for treacherous lover, so I'll gladly be a sacrifice.

Notice that part in bold? The one that completely explains why Fidelis would have a vested, nonscum interest in looking at someone other than Chi, who he was Lovers with?

Also, in what way was this--

This really strikes a bad chord to me. Since he was lazy and only barely read posts, he is obviously just going with who the majority of players agrees on lynching. He's literally bandwagoning, hoping for an easy kill, without really knowing the reason behind it.

VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

caused by a lack of reading comprehension on Fidelis' part? This comes out of nowhere, and is your only substantial post before you hammer Chi and kill him and Fidelis both. I think the lack of comprehension is clearly on your side of the argument. Because if you had actually thought about it, or had thought about it and weren't scum, you'd have realized that Fidelis claiming to be the town Lover of the Treacherous Lover is possibly the dumbest idea ever. And here's why.

1) Town opinion was pretty balanced between Xite and Chi. If Fidelis was the TL, why wouldn't he go for Xite instead? It doesn't matter what Xite's alignment is, because pushing Chi by saying they are lovers would only reveal Fidelis' deceit when he flipped.
2) There was no need to. None of us, as far as I can recall, thought Chi was anyone's lover. Fidelis could have just kept defending Chi and gone after anyone else with no suspicions and without revealing they were lovers. Instead, he independently chose to reveal himself and go after his lover, which is pro-town.
3) You don't even use a current post for your rationale. You thought Fidelis was the TL because of a post he'd made saying Millar deserves to die without voting, a post he'd made four days prior at a very different stage in the game. At that time you accused him of not voting for Millar, implicitly called him scummy, and yet did not vote for him yourself. Which is bad enough except Fidelis HAD voted for Millar a long time ago, which was established very well shortly thereafter. So basically, the very little rationale you had for voting him didn't exist. Unless you're scum, as I believe you to be, in which you have all the rationale in the world. You can't have confirmed town running around, after all.

Anyone else still think Shattered Viewpoint is town?

[Zajnet]

Nope, I've been leaning scum on SV all game, but your case cinches it for me.

VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint

We can deal with don later.

[don_johnson]

We can deal with don later.

agreed.